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Texas House Fails to Reach Quorum Again After Dems Left State; Sources Say DOJ May Release Transcript of Ghislaine Maxwell Interview; Ghislaine Maxwell Opposes Release of Epstein Grand Jury Transcripts; House Oversight Committee Subpoenas DOJ for Epstein Files. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired August 05, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:57]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Time's up. This hour, Texas lawmakers are meeting, trying again to pass a new congressional map designed to give Republicans more seats in Congress. Democrats are not playing ball. And now, other states are weighing how to retaliate against the move.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Plus, new details related to the Epstein file saga. The White House weighing whether to release audio tape of the DOJ interview with his accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, as a House Committee pushes forward with its own investigation, subpoenaing several people, including Bill and Hillary Clinton. And the new space race, not just returning to the moon and going beyond, but actually going back to the moon with a nuclear reactor big enough to power a base on the lunar surface. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to "CNN News Central."

KEILAR: Breaking News right now, the Texas State House is gaveling back into session with dozens of Democrats still MIA for a second day in a row. They're now facing arrest after fleeing the state to block a Republican-led redistricting plan in an off-census year. The move which is backed by President Trump could cost Democrats five seats in the House of Representatives, seats the president said earlier that his party is entitled to. Let's go to CNN's Ed Lavandera at the Texas State House. Ed, what do you see in there?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've seen lawmakers making their way into the House chamber that it will probably become official here in just the next few moments that there is not going to be enough lawmakers on the House floor to reach a quorum. So, more than 50 Democrats have remained out of Texas and away from the Texas capital for this redistricting bill to continue to move forward. So everything will come to a halt here and suspect that the -- after a few minutes, the Speaker of the House will gavel out and perhaps try again tomorrow. We'll see.

But we are halfway through this legislative session, which is supposed to last 30 days. We're about two weeks left in this session. So, if Democrats are going to block the bill, the redistricting bill during this legislative session, they would've to stay away that long. But as we've mentioned, the governor could also simply call another special session, and start this process all over again. And that is what Democrats here in Texas are trying to do, is ratchet up pressure, hopefully, change the course of public opinion that would make it harder for Republicans to pass the redistricting bill here in Texas.

But we're getting no indication from the Republican side that that is something that they're open to. But the other thing Democrats are still trying to do is convince other states, Democratic states to follow suit what Texas is doing here. Listen to what some of the Texas Democrats are telling their Republican colleagues here today.

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REP. BARBARA GERVIN-HAWKINS, (D) TEXAS STATE HOUSE: I'm looking for my colleagues, my Republican colleagues, to be brave and stand up. The reality is Trump called and they fell down and say, what do you want us to do? Which says they're weak and we don't need that in Texas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Brianna, we've laid out over the last 24 hours exactly what Texas Republicans are threatening Democrats with here. But they also said a number of times that the punishments could get harsher or the threat of those punishments could get harsher. So, we'll see exactly where this might lead to and if there might be some more indication of what else other Republicans might try to do to get Democrats back here to Texas.

KEILAR: Yeah, we're looking at Rep. Mitch Little there at the lectern, as he said on our show just last hour. The cost of compliance will increase until compliance is gained. Ed Lavandera, thank you so much for the very latest there from Austin. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Joining us now is Democratic State Rep. Erin Gamez.

[14:05:00]

Rep. Gamez, thank you so much for being with us. So, Republicans argue that these new maps are necessary because of major population changes in a very short amount of time in recent years. They say that this will better represent the will of Texas voters. I imagine you disagree with that.

REP. ERIN GAMEZ, (D) TEXAS STATE HOUSE: Good afternoon, Boris. I want to start by saying thank you so much for having me. There's not a more important topic that's going on right now in regards to the future of democracy, and I fundamentally disagree with the statement that this is what Texas is asking for. That is patently false. The Texas legislature met for over 140 days, had a committee convened in regards to redistricting which did not meet once during our term. This is not the business of the state of Texas. This is not a map made for the people by the people. This is a map made by Donald Trump, now being forced upon the state of Texas.

SANCHEZ: I'd like to get your response to this comment from one of your colleagues who spoke with Brianna last hour.

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KEILAR: The timing of this. Can you talk to me about this? Why do this in a census-off year when you just redistricted in 2021?

REP. MITCH LITTLE, (R) TEXAS STATE HOUSE: Because we can, we have the votes. It's legal for us to do so. It's legal for us to draw the lines based on political performance. We have three Hispanic-predominated districts in South Texas that we believe that we can carve out for Republican leadership in the United States Congress. It's going to be a good thing for Texas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: There's a lot to dig into there. First, I want to get your reaction to the idea that we're doing it because we can. Is it right for politicians of either party to gerrymander?

GAMEZ: Absolutely not, Boris. It doesn't matter whether you're red, whether you are blue, the concept of might makes right is fundamentally anti-democratic. It is the slow slip that we are now seeing into our authoritarian regime of impressing the will of politics over the rights of the people. And to his comment that we see South Texas slipping in favor of voting red or voting for Trump, in regards to anyone speculating about that trend, if that were true, the statement that Hispanics are shifting red or shifting towards Trump, I promise you they would not be gerrymandering South Texas. If that were true, there would be no need to redistrict in the state of Texas.

They are doing this right now because they know the opposite is true. They know the public has now become aware of his policies, of Trump's true intentions, again, which are not the will of the people, but that of his just political power grab. And that is the only reason he called the state of Texas outside in a mid-decade year saying, I need you to do this because I know the people are going to rise up against me. He's -- this is not the first time he's done this. He's done this to the state of Georgia. He's asked Georgia find me 11,000 votes. Everyone remembers that.

Except Georgia stood up and said no. For whatever reason right now, we're failing to find the political courage to tell Trump, no, we will not do your bidding and we will respect the voters of the state of Texas who have consistently said no.

By the way, Trump only won by 56 percent in the state of Texas. That's hardly a staggering statistic. This would now change the state of Texas to over 80 percent Republican districts, again, not the will of the people.

SANCHEZ: I do want to let our viewers know that as a result of not having a quorum, the legislature has adjourned, the House has adjourned, and they are going to reconvene now on Friday. You made a point a second ago that you believe that might does not make right. I wonder what you then say to Democrats who argue that in places like California and Illinois and in New York, districts should be redrawn there to, from their view, fight fire with fire and gerrymandered their way to a more balanced House of Representatives.

GAMEZ: That's correct. For whatever reason, Boris, this seems to be a regime that only responds to force. So if other states who are acting freely and democratically, feel the need to step up and say we will not allow what you are doing in Texas to spread across the nation, then that might be what has to be done. However, in these states, I do believe that is an issue that goes to the people. That is an issue that the entire state of California would be allowed to vote on, yet again, a more democratic process. And if that is what the people of California are willing to do to fight for democracy, we support them.

SANCHEZ: So just, just to be clear, your argument is that because the rules are different in California and they would seek input from voters, that isn't the same kind of gerrymandering that's happening in Texas now?

GAMEZ: Right. As you previously heard, my colleague state right now, the legislature, the 88 Republican-led legislature and Republican-led Senate and governor are simply saying, we're not going to ask the people of Texas if this is what they want.

[14:10:00]

We are going to do it because we can. We held hearings for two weeks during this special session on just this issue of redistricting. Mind you, when the people of Texas were led to believe that the reason we were convening was to address flooding and disaster mitigation, not one bill was filed on those issues. And at every hearing that was held on this issue, thousands of Texans rose up across the state and said, we do not want this. These are not our maps. This is not our voice.

And for whatever reason, the governor is still insisting that this bill be the only issue that be presented to Texans before we address flood relief or disaster mitigation. It's unconscionable.

SANCHEZ: So representative, what do you say to folks that would argue that it's hypocritical to be in favor of states redrawing their congressional districts when it benefits your party, not when it benefits the other party?

GAMEZ: I hear them. I believe the issue of redistricting needs to be completely revamped. We need to take pages out of other states' books that address independent commissions that are nonpolitical, that address this issue on the basis of data, on the basis of census. There is a reason the Texas Constitution says, you shall redistrict every 10 years after the census. We are not doing that because this should be about actual population growth. The true reflection of the growth and the statistics of your community. That's not what these maps are. These maps were not even crafted by Texas Republicans. They were sent to us by the Trump Administration.

SANCHEZ: Texas State Representative, Erin Gamez, we have to leave the conversation there. We do appreciate your time.

GAMEZ: Thank you so much, Boris. Have a good one. SANCHEZ: Thanks. Still to come, we have new reporting today that the Ghislaine Maxwell interview conducted by DOJ was recorded and that the White House is now considering releasing the audio or potentially transcripts, the latest on that coming your way. Plus, new analysis from CNN into the tactics used by ICE agents to arrest immigrants, how they're drastically different in red and blue states. And later, a look at the incredible mission to rescue a Ukrainian soldier using determination, drones, and an e-bike. That story coming your way in just moments.

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[14:17:00]

SANCHEZ: We have new developments on multiple fronts concerning the Jeffrey Epstein files and Epstein's jailed associate, Ghislaine Maxwell. CNN has learned that the Trump Administration is now debating whether release a transcript of the Justice Department's recent interview with her. According to three senior administration officials, the DOJ has an audio recording and a transcript compiled from her two-day meeting last month with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche. CNN's Paula Reid joins us now. So Paula, what more are you learning about these discussions over at the White House?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So Boris, news that this audio recording and the fact that there are discussions about possibly releasing a transcript, this all comes as the administration continues to face criticism for backtracking on its promise to be more transparent with the Epstein evidence it has in its possession. And the reason this particular audio recording is so significant, it's because the administration has not really given us many details at all about what Maxwell said in her roughly 10-hour interview with the Deputy Attorney General.

Now, it's really notable and in the course of our reporting, we were a little surprised that a full audio recording was made and not the usual just sort of summary of the interview because this is someone who is a convicted sex trafficker. Her credibility has been questioned in the past. She's also been in prison for several years, which doesn't really help anyone's mental state. So now, we are told that there are discussions about whether they should release this. Now if this transcript were to be released, any sensitive information, particularly information about victims would have to be redacted.

But as of now, we are told that no final decision has been made. But now that me, our colleague, Alayna Treene and Kristen Holmes have reported the existence of this audio and this transcript, it is unlikely that the pressure is going to let up on the administration over its lack of transparency over this evidence.

SANCHEZ: And Paula, we understand that we just learned Ghislaine Maxwell is now pushing back against the DOJ's effort to unseal grand jury testimony. What is she saying?

REID: That's right. Here, this is the Justice Department's request to unseal grand jury transcripts. They made this request in Florida and New York, for the grand jury's and investigated Jeffrey Epstein, Florida Judge denied the request. But in New York, the judge has opened the discussion up to other parties who could be impacted by this, victims and Maxwell, to weigh in here. And Maxwell's lawyer had previously signaled that they would oppose this. But here, in this filing to the court a short time ago, they expanded on their reasoning writing, "Jeffrey Epstein is dead. Ghislaine Maxwell is not. Whatever interest the public may have in Epstein, that interest cannot justify a broad intrusion into grand jury secrecy in a case where the defendant is alive, her legal options are viable and her due process rights remain."

Of course, they're referring to the fact that she's appealing part of her case to the Supreme Court. But we're also hearing from victims, and it's really interesting, Boris, the victims we've heard from so far, they're not opposing the release of this material.

[14:20:00]

In fact, they're pushing for more transparency as long as they protect victims. But really, what they're asking for is a chance to be able to move on and begin healing. And they have until the end of the day today to weigh in.

SANCHEZ: Paula Reid, thank you so much for that reporting. Brianna?

KEILAR: Today the House Oversight Committee issued nearly a dozen subpoenas for information related to Jeffrey Epstein. The committee is Republican-led, but this is a bipartisan effort that was initiated by Democrats. The committee's subpoena to the Justice Department demands that it provide any Epstein files in its possession with victims' names redacted. The committee also wants to see communications between former Biden administration officials and the DOJ related to the Epstein case.

The oversight panel also subpoenaed six former attorneys general for closed-door depositions in the coming months. And it's seeking as well depositions from former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, along with former FBI Directors Jim Comey and Robert Muller. With us now is Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia of California. He's the Ranking Member on the House Oversight Committee.

Congressman, thank you for being with us. And as we're looking here at Oversight subpoenaing DOJ for the Epstein files, do you expect DOJ to comply? And what do you think will be redacted besides victims' names?

REP. ROBERT GARCIA, (D-CA) RANKING MEMBER, HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: Well, first, we're obviously very supportive and glad that the actual subpoena was actually out today. This is something, of course, that Democrats forced a vote on just a couple of weeks ago and we had the bipartisan support of a few Republicans coming over and essentially voting for our motion. What's really important is that Chairman Comer in conversations with us, made it clear that we want these files immediately. So, the DOJ has now two weeks to send over. It's not just files, it's documents, it's videos, it's other materials.

The DOJ needs to comply with the subpoena. We expect this subpoena to be complied to. That is in the law. And so, we're expecting a response from them very soon. This is a win for the American public and transparency. And most importantly, this is important to center the victims and to get justice for them.

Now, as it relates to redactions, we've been clear that our focus is to protect the actual victims. And so of course, there has to be redactions to protect the young women and girls who have been victimized and sexually trafficked in horrific ways. That's got to be the center. But what we should not be doing is protecting anyone else.

We should not be protecting anyone that preyed on these women. We should not be protecting anyone that is powerful or wealthy or Donald Trump or anyone else that may be in the files. And we know the president is listed in those files because it's been reported that the DOJ has told him that in just the last month or two. And so, all of that is developing. Now, we're going to get these files and get transparency for the victims.

KEILAR: We should note he's not been linked to wrongdoing. You mentioned videos, what videos?

GARCIA: We understand that the Department of Justice and the Epstein files, it's not just paper documents, it's paper documents and other types of --

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KEILAR: No, I understand what you're saying. I'm asking, are you talking about videos of victims being victimized?

GARCIA: We don't know what are actually in the videos, what's important is whatever is sent over that, of course, that victims are centered and that that's all redacted. We do not, and are not interested in anything that harms victims. That is not -- we want to ensure that the victim's privacy and the horrible trauma they've already been through -- they're not retraumatized.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: So, what does that -- what does -- what does that look like? What does that redaction look like? Does that look like not getting the video or does that look like something being blurred out? I mean, what does that look like to you when you're talking about a redaction of a video?

GARCIA: So the negotiation of that piece is not finished to be quite frank. I mean, we have -- we just got the subpoena out. We want to -- our request from Democrats has been very clear, which is we do not want to retraumatize or victimize those that have suffered.

KEILAR: OK. I hear you on that.

GARCIA: That's the most important thing to us.

KEILAR: OK. So oversight --

GARCIA: It looks like will be -- will be a very --

KEILAR: So you've --- you've issued -- the committee has issued nearly a dozen subpoenas to all these hope high-profile figures, Democrats, Republicans, for files and information related to Epstein. This includes, of course, former FBI directors. This includes the Clintons. How much of those depositions are going to be about Epstein? How much are going to be about Russia, considering the Attorney General has ordered prosecutors to start a grand jury probe into Obama officials over that?

GARCIA: Right. I mean, look, I mean, Republicans voted and they wanted to expand to a variety of folks, as you just mentioned, and bring those subpoenas in and get depositions. They can -- they're in the majority. They can bring depositions, subpoenas for whoever they want. That's fine. What we want is we want to get the files themselves and ensure that we get that information out and make it transparent to the public.

[14:25:00]

They're going to, of course, try to insert politics and expand this in any way that protects Donald Trump. It's very clear from day one that the White House is involved in some type of cover-up (inaudible) the entire campaign and talk about releasing the files, and then when he has the power to do so, chooses not to do so. We didn't have to issue the subpoena. He could have actually sent out the files on his own and met his own campaign promise. He chose not to do so.

So, we absolutely expect him to continue to try to play games like he's done with moving Ms. Maxwell to a different prison, or perhaps trying to work on some kind of pardon, or less sentencing. All of those issues should concern us. Donald Trump is clearly going to do everything that he can to minimize the impact to him, but yet he's involved in the cover-up and we believe Republicans are helping in that right now.

KEILAR: Well, so let me ask you this.

GARCIA: Which is why we want to make sure we get the actual (inaudible).

KEILAR: The Trump Administration is considering releasing the transcript of this Maxwell interview that she did over two days with the Deputy AG Todd Blanche, who is formerly personal lawyer to President Trump. Do you want that released?

GARCIA: Absolutely. I think it should be released, but I think two things are important. I mean, one is everything should be released. It shouldn't be segments of those interviews. The entire transcript or video, whatever's available, should be released to the public. But let's also make something very clear. The person that was handling that deposition was Donald Trump's former personal lawyer. I mean, this Deputy AG that folks are talking about was the president's personal lawyer.

KEILAR: Yeah, but I just said that. (CROSSTALK)

GARCIA: We also know that he is actually --

KEILAR: Just to be clear, I know, we're clear on that, but -- and I have limited time, which is why I want to ask you about this. You said it should be released, victims' names --

GARCIA: Yes.

KEILAR: Names of those accused, when you're talking about things should be released, I mean released with redactions though, I assume, like what are you --

GARCIA: Of course.

KEILAR: -- looking for? What concerns do you have? What --

GARCIA: Absolutely. All these redactions on the victims.

KEILAR: And those who are accused, but nothing's been proven, what do you -- what do you think there?

GARCIA: Look, I think that obviously, those are the decisions and the sensitivity that we're going to have to take in these weeks ahead. But what's very important is if Maxwell did a deposition behind closed doors with the Trump Department of Justice, we must release those transcripts. And of course, the victims need to be protected. But let's also understand that this was mentioned earlier in your reporting, the person's actually giving this information is a convicted sex trafficker who has committed horrible crimes against young women and girls, who has also been untruthful in the courts.

And so, this person can also not be trusted. She wants a pardon or a reduced sentence. So, all of that needs to be taken into consideration in that testimony. But of course, it should be released while protecting the victims that are clearly going to be -- need to be redacted and need to be protected in this testimony.

KEILAR: Yeah, she was indicted for perjury and you have victims who say that she personally participated in their sexual abuse. And we should note that. Congressman Robert Garcia, great to speak with you. Thank you so much.

Still to come, how the Trump Administration is going nuclear in the new space race, we have details on its big plans for the moon. That and much more coming up on "CNN News Central."

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