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Matt Pierce is Interviewed about the Redistricting Fight in Indiana; John Boyd Jr. is Interviewed about Trade Policy Impact on Farmers; Vance and the 2028 Nomination Numbers; Inside Ecuador's Narco Superhighway. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired August 07, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In this quorum break. We've seen the governor of Texas request from the -- request the Texas Supreme Court to rule on having Gene Wu, who is the representative from Houston who is also the chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, and the governor is asking the Texas Supreme Court to remove Wu from office because, in the governor's view, he has vacated that office by leaving the state in the middle of this legislative session.

And you also have the Texas attorney general who is threatening to start the process in the courts, in trial courts, if the Democrats do not return to Austin by the time the House tries to reconvene on Friday.

So, these are moves that we have never seen in the three previous quorum breaks that have happened over redistricting here in Texas over the last 22 years. Democrats say that the governor and the attorney general do not have the ability to do this, that they will argue that intensely, that they -- the -- that they have the law on their side, that the governor is using the legal process, in the words of Gene Wu, as a political weapon.

So, that is the fight that we are going to be paying very close attention to, John, here over today and this afternoon to see if the Texas Supreme Court decides to make this ruling later this afternoon, and also into tomorrow, when we see whether or not these Democrats continue to hold out and not coming back to Austin.

John.

BERMAN: A number of major moves in the next 24 hours.

Ed Lavandera, great to have you there. Thank you.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk more about what could be the next Republican target for kind of blowing up and changing congressional maps in order to gain congressional seats, Indiana, as John mentioned.

Joining us right now is one Democratic state lawmaker there who's trying to fight against it. State Representative Matt Pierce.

Thanks for coming in.

A big part of what we're talking about here is J.D. Vance is in Indiana today. What are you hearing about this meeting that we've learned is between the vice president, the governor and top Republicans in the state legislature.

MATT PIERCE (D), INDIANA STATE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: Well, the governor, in a press availability, confirmed that one of the issues that's going to be discussed is whether to call a special session here in Indiana and attempt to take the two remaining Democratic seats and flip them to Republican seats.

BOLDUAN: We're going to -- we're going to -- let's try to continue the conversation, Representative. There's a little problem with your audio. But let's -- let's continue to try and see if this -- if it works itself out.

What is the likelihood that Republicans in your state will follow Texas, will try to make this move, will try to -- I guess it would require calling a special session to rewrite the maps?

PIERCE: I think they know that it's unusual to call a special session for this purpose. But, you know, they've not been able to say no to Donald Trump yet. And so that's my concern. The governor can singlehandedly stop this by simply refusing to call the special session. And if he does, the leaders of the legislature need to say, no, we're not going to subvert democracy just to satisfy President Trump.

BOLDUAN: I want to read -- I'm not sure if you had a chance to see it yet. Earlier this morning, the president, President Trump, just posted this morning on Truth Social, "I've instructed our Department of Commerce to immediately begin work on a new and highly accurate census." Basically saying he wants a new census. Obviously not -- not at the 10-year mark, since one just happened.

And with that, while it could have an impact on all sorts of aspects of our lives, one as -- one -- one thing that this speaks directly to is -- has everything to do with redistricting. I mean, what do you think of that, seeing this from the president now?

PIERCE: Well, I was amazed at how brazen the president was and essentially saying, I need more seats because I think I'm going to lose the midterm elections. And I was really shocked that they didn't come up with some cover story or some excuse to redraw these districts. So, I think he must be getting enough pushback that he's decided we have to have an excuse to draw new maps. And having a new census would be that excuse.

BOLDUAN: Dozens of Democratic lawmakers in Texas, as they're facing this in very real time, they left the state in order to not give, you know, take away quorum, so they held up the vote on the redrawn map there. Is -- are there discussions of this already amongst Democrats in Indiana? I mean is that something you could do or would do? PIERCE: Well, unfortunately, we -- the Republicans have a

supermajority in this state, so they can establish a quorum with their own -- own members. So, we don't have that option. But you can rest assured that if they decide to go ahead with this, we'll use every procedural maneuver available to us to try to slow it down and try to defeat it and try to give the public an opportunity to weigh in.

BOLDUAN: Representative, do you think this is -- do you -- how real do you think this is?

[08:35:02]

I mean, what -- the vice president coming to the state is a significant move. How real do you think this -- this push is?

PIERCE: Well, I think the fact that it's underway in Texas means it's real. And the fact that they're talking to many different states. I think they decided that it's a little harder in Texas with a quorum be denied. So, we need to go to the supermajority red states where there's no accountability, and we can just have our will and push through these changes and grab a few more seats. You know, the margins are so tight in the U.S. House that, you know, if they could pick up a seat here or a seat there, that can make a real difference.

But doing that will delegitimize Congress. If the only way the Republicans can maintain their majority in the U.S. House is to basically cheat and come to states around the country and in the middle of the cycle rig the election by changing the maps, there's not going to be any legitimacy to what Congress does. And that really undermines democracy, and that will destroy democracy.

BOLDUAN: And when you talk -- talk about pick up a seat here and pick up a seat there, it really is just that in Indiana. I mean, Indiana -- Republicans already control seven of Indiana's nine congressional seats. So, it really is one seat here or one seat there, or it would be.

In response we know -- and, look, as any student of politics or history knows that this has been done, gerrymandering, and redrawing districts to benefit your party has been done by both parties over the course of many years. But in response to Texas, we now are learning much more about what could be happening in California because there are sources telling CNN that the governor there is in serious talks now to redraw the state's map, the congressional maps, to potentially help turn five Republican seats over to Democrats.

Do you support Democrats making these same moves that you say Republicans are doing and de-legitimizing democracy?

PIERCE: I have always been a supporter of nonpartisan redistricting. I think we need a commission. I've offered many pieces of legislation to do that.

But we are in a fight for democracy, a fight for our democratic lives. And I think that if the Republicans can have their will in these deep red states, the Democratic states have to step up. We have to have a national fight about this, and we have to preserve democracy. We shouldn't be rigging the election for one way or the other. We should allow the voters to decide which way they want the country to go and which politicians they want to elect to lead them.

And what we're moving toward, if we don't have some pushback from the Democratic states, is a de-legitimized Congress doing whatever it wants with no accountability, because it will not have to fear elections, and we will set the precedent. And it could -- the shoe could be on the other foot later. You could have every two years, legislatures coming in and adjusting the maps based on last year's election results and constantly maintaining their power. Power for powers sake. We have to have a democracy that reflects the will of the people, and we're not going to have it if this Trump scheme goes through.

BOLDUAN: But short of getting independent commissions all over the place, are you saying that the ends do justify the means and Democrats should do exactly the same that you're criticizing?

PIERCE: I'm saying the Republicans feel the ends justify the means, and the Democrats cannot just stand by and allow them to steal the next election. We have to have pushback. The Republicans have to learn that they can't get away with this, because if they do, it's all downhill from here. And we will not have a democracy.

BOLDUAN: State Representative Matt Pierce of Indiana, thanks so much for coming in. I really appreciate it. Let's see what comes of this meeting today.

There's new video in overnight showing the new tactics used by ICE agents in Los Angeles. Details on what is being called Operation Trojan Horse. We've got more on that.

And President Trump says the White House plans to release new rules around migrant farm labor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:42:56]

BOLDUAN: We have brand new video in this morning showing a raid by ICE agents at a Home Depot in Los Angeles. And it had been -- the operation had been deemed Operation Trojan Horse. In the video we're showing you, obtained by CNN, shows Border Patrol agents loading into the back of a Penske truck just before the raid got underway. And "The L.A. Times" reports that the driver of the truck pulled up and told day laborers outside the store he was looking for workers, then agents jumped out the back of the truck. Sixteen people were arrested.

Now, Penske, the company, actually put out a statement about all of this, saying in part, that "the company was not made aware that its trucks would be used in the operation and does not authorize this."

Less than a week ago an appeals court actually blocked the Trump administration from indiscriminate immigration stops and arrests. And the mayor of Los Angeles says, with that in mind, they plan to fight back.

John.

BERMAN: All right, new this morning, President Trump says the White House plans to release new rules and regulations on migrant farm labor. Trump officials have been grappling with the consequences of the immigration crackdown. The implications that it means for agriculture.

With us now is John Boyd Jr., founder and president of the National Black Farmers Association.

Thanks so much for being with us.

What has the impact been on your farm of the president's policies?

JOHN BOYD JR., FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BLACK FARMERS ASSOCIATION: Well, it's been rough this year, John. And we're hearing from farmers all around the country, bankruptcies are on the rise and farmers are asking, Boyd, am I going to be able to stay in my home or keep my home if they file bankruptcy? Farm suicides are up. And the president's tariffs have put this country in complete turmoil for America's farmers. And really, John, it's a state of emergency for America's farmers because right now we're still selling corn, wheat and soybeans at dramatically low prices because the markets have plummeted because every other day the president makes another announcement about tariffs.

The only thing we still do in this country better than anybody around the world, and people can debate me on this, is produce corn, wheat and soybeans.

[08:45:04]

When it comes out of our field, it's ready to be shipped to China or -- or corn to Mexico. And the president is negotiating on this because he knows this is the only thing that America produces. And he's gambling with America's farmers' lives.

BERMAN: What impact has -- have immigration policies had on your farms? The White House now apparently considering a policy, maybe a touchback policy, where migrants who were in the country illegally can cross the border but come back. What are you seeing?

BOYD: Well, I'll tell you, John, it's -- you don't know what the president is going to do because just a week or so ago he was herding up migrant workers from farmers, you know, riding through their fields and chasing these persons and cheating them -- treating them, John, almost as if they're livestock. And, I mean, if anybody's old enough to remember Jim Crow and my, my, my grandparents were sharecroppers in this country. They didn't want to pay them. And now they're using this particular population to do the same. And I believe that this is inhumane treatment to, you know, say one week they -- they have to leave the country. And now, because farmers need the labor, all they have to -- to come back. These persons have been doing this type of work for a very, very long time on these farms, harvesting tobacco and other commodities around the country, with no problem. These weren't criminals and all the things that the president says they are. These are hardworking people that are doing the work that many of us in our own country don't want to do, John.

BERMAN: Yes, actually, let me play a little bit about what the president said about that. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People that live in the inner city are not doing that work. They're just not doing that work. And they've tried. We've tried. Everybody tried. They don't do it. These people do it naturally. Naturally. I said, what happens if they get it -- to a farmer the other day, what happens if they get a bad back? He said, they don't get a bad back, sir, because if they get a bad back, they die.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: They do it naturally, he said. What did you hear in that?

BOYD: You know, and -- and they die, you know, and it's comments like that, that have made race relations very difficult under this presidency. And I'm going to tell you on this show today, the president's going to be on the wrong side of history. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but this is the wrong way to treat a human being, whether you like the immigration policies or not.

And, you know, we all know that the immigration, you know, needed some changes. But this isn't the way to do it, the way that the president is doing it. And like I said, he makes one statement today and tomorrow, he says something totally, totally different.

But, in this case, he's affecting his base. The very people who voted for him, in this case, John, the large scale white farmers in those red states that you've just been mentioning who overwhelmingly voted for this president are going to be on the auction block and -- you know, come this fall, because they won't be able to sell and keep their farm at poor grain prices, $4 for corn, $5 for wheat, and $10 for soybeans. You will not be able to make it with the highest input cost per acre that we face in my whole 40 years of farming. This is the worst period I've seen since I've been farming since 1983, and people old enough to remember the great '80s and what it did to Americas farmers.

BERMAN: The president -- the new tariffs did go into effect today. If they stick, if there is consistency, will that make your situation better?

BOYD: Well, the tariffs didn't work the first time the president did it, John. When he imposed these tariffs on China, they started buying soybeans from Brazil. And, in fact, the market never did come back to us. The first time the president came into office, John, I was selling soybeans for $16.80 a bushel. It plummeted all the way down to $8 a bushel, and the market never came back with his imposed tariffs on -- on China. And I don't believe it's going to come back now because we haven't created new markets for America's farmers.

BERMAN: John Boyd Jr., great to talk to you this morning. Thanks so much for your time. Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: The vice president, J.D. Vance, is in the headlines for a couple of reasons today. First, he was dispatched to Indiana to meet with state leaders and likely discuss redrawing the state's congressional maps and making an effort to do so. And also, he is said to be hosting that now postponed strategy dinner to discuss how the Trump administration should be navigating the Jeffrey Epstein saga and fallout. Vance increasingly becoming one of the president's chief problem solvers, a role that could maybe set him up and help his chances in 2028.

CNN's Harry Enten is here and he's looking at that.

Where -- let's talk about J.D. Vance and the 2028. Where does he stand on this?

[08:50:01]

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: You know, I'm going to quote the esteemed scholar Larry David and say, pretty, pretty good.

What are we talking about right here? Well, why don't we take a look here.

Look, this is early polling. But, look, for the GOP nomination, it's J.D. Vance at 40 percent. There's no one even close to him. Ron DeSantis back at single digits at eight. Donald Trump Jr. back at 7 percent. And I know Kate Bolduan will say, Harry, it's so early. It's too early to look at the polling.

BOLDUAN: You -- you said it. You don't even need me to say it.

ENTEN: I said it quoting you. I was channeling you.

BOLDUAN: OK.

ENTEN: But keep in mind that early favorites have actually gone on to win the nomination 63 percent of the time. Those who have run since 1980. And when you're dealing with fields that are five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, upwards of north of 20, and all of a sudden you're telling me that the early poll leader, who is J.D. Vance, that those win more than 50 percent of the time, that is why I say it looks pretty gosh darn good, or pretty, pretty good for the man from Ohio.

BOLDUAN: What -- how about vice presidents historically, how they do?

ENTEN: OK, so you see the polling. You see that J.D. Vance should be considered a favorite at this point. But take a look here. How about vice presidents? Sitting vice presidents. The last five sitting vice presidents who ran, Richard Nixon in '60, he won. How about Hubert Horatio Humphrey in '68? Thats HHH. That's a real acronym for him. How about Bush the first in "88, won. Al Gore in 2001. Kamala Harris in 2024 won. All of the last five sitting vice presidents who ran for their party's nomination won.

So, it's not just a polling. Historically speaking, if J.D. Vance gets in this fight and he's the sitting vice president, the history books say, hey, he's got a pretty gosh darn chance of going all the way, at least to the general election, because five out of five.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Getting the nomination.

ENTEN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: What -- how would President Trump factor into his chances?

ENTEN: Yes, OK. So, President Trump, you know, has said some pretty gosh darn favorable things about J.D. Vance over the last week and his chances perhaps in 2028. Look at this, times Trump endorses in GOP primaries and that person goes on to win. Look at this. In 2020, 98 percent. 2022, 95 percent. 2024, 96 percent. If Donald Trump decides to get behind his vice president, this GOP nomination fight in 2028 is likely. Adios amigos over J.D. Vance is very much likely going to be the GOP nominee, which is what the polling says, and what history says as well. At this point, things are all seem to be coming up for J.D.

BOLDUAN: J.D.

Thank you, Harry.

ENTEN: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Love you.

All right, coming up for us, this camera is probably going to have to run and I'm going to go this way. A warning from filmmaker James Cameron. Why he thinks the world is at risk of a, quote, "terminator- style apocalypse."

And Astronaut Butch Wilmore is hanging up his spacesuit, and we know -- and what we now know about his retirement just months after returning from an unexpectedly long stay in space.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:56:45]

BERMAN: New this morning, "Terminator" creator James Cameron is warning about artificial intelligence. He told "Rolling Stone," "I do think there is a danger of a Terminator-style apocalypse where you put A.I. together with weapons, even to the level of nuclear weapons systems, nuclear defense counterstrike, all that stuff." Now, it is worth noting that James Cameron also created "Titanic." No word yet how he feels that A.I. will affect the cruise industry, or if he thinks A.I. will help Rose find space on that wood for Jack before she let go.

We're learning this morning that astronaut Butch Wilmore is retiring from NASA. His latest mission to the International Space Station on a Boeing Starliner was months longer than expected. The spacecraft experienced issues while en route. It was deemed unsafe to return. In his 25 year career, space.com says Wilmore spent 464 days off earth, conducted five spacewalks during which he racked up 32 hours outside the spacecraft, which is longer than our show.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: But only slightly.

CNN goes inside Ecuador for a look at the country's brutal cocaine trafficking system. David Culver -- CNN's David Culver got rare access inside a country in crisis, investigating this in a new episode of "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper."

Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They've just kicked it in. They just kicked the throttle up here. They've got eyes on -- oh, I think it's these two boats, actually.

CULVER (voice over): Ecuador's coastline stretches for almost 1,400 miles along the Pacific. Just offshore from Manta, we're pulled into action faster than we expected.

CULVER: We were meeting with one of the commanders here, asking a little bit about this potential embed, when suddenly they got information that there were two boats leaving from a nearby port. On those boats they believe gasoline and drugs.

CULVER (voice over): They call this the narco superhighway. And you can think of Manta as the on ramp. From here, shipments flow out to the U.S. and Europe. The cocaine itself doesn't originate in Ecuador, though. It pours in from Colombia in the north and Peru in the south. Those are the world's top cocaine producers. Ecuador has become the transit hub. A traffickers gateway to the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: David Culver here with us.

David, this is fascinating. And your access, just remarkable. Tell us more about what we're going to learn.

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kate.

I think it's going to catch people off guard, just how involved the U.S. is now getting in this issue. I mean this is -- an agreement was just signed last week, actually, between Secretary Kristi Noem of Homeland Security and the Ecuadorian president to try to figure out how they can combat crime within that country, knowing that it goes past its borders.

Now, we've reported extensively on the collapse in Ecuador. I mean this is going from a so-called island of peace to one of the deadliest hotspots in the Americas. But we did want to go deeper. We embedded with Ecuador's military, their police. We go from major cities to coastal towns, to even the Galapagos Islands.

[09:00:00]

And what we find lurking off the coast there, it may surprise you. It certainly surprised us.

We go inside fishing villages. We go out on navy patrols.