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White House: Judge's Decision Not to Release Ghislaine Maxwell Docs Unfortunate; RFK Jr. Contradicts Law Enforcement on CDC Shooter's Motive; Taylor Swift Teases New Album, The Life of a Showgirl. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired August 12, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN HOST: The White House is responding today after a federal judge denied the administration's request to unseal grand jury materials from the Ghislaine Maxwell sex trafficking case. Maxwell is serving a 20-year sentence for carrying out a years-long scheme with Jeffrey Epstein to groom and sexually abuse underage girls. Here's what White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt had to say about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We think that decision is unfortunate. Of course, we moved to unseal that information because the president has said he wants to see credible evidence released. As for the appeal process, I would defer you to the Department of Justice for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: David Schoen joins me now. He is a former attorney for Jeffrey Epstein, and he was also the lead counsel for Trump during his second impeachment. David, thank you so much for being back with us to talk about this case.

Can I just get your top line reaction to these latest developments? The judge that rejected the administration's request to release the Maxwell grand jury materials essentially smacked down the administration, saying, doing so would not bring anything meaningful new to light.

[15:35:03]

DAVID SCHOEN, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR JEFFREY EPSTEIN: Yes, it's interesting. Look, there's always a presumption in favor of grand jury secrecy, but this one has the dynamic turned on its head a little bit. Here we have Maxwell, the defendant in the case, asking the court not to disclose the grand jury minutes.

Usually a defendant would kill to get grand jury transcripts because it could undermine the credibility of witnesses, and so on. I think the administration has done all that it can do to try to get these. Judge Engelmayer is certainly no shill for the Trump administration. He's an Obama appointee, but I don't know if those things really matter. He's a terrific judge. And he, you know, weighed all of the factors.

I'm a little surprised by it. I mean, there are exceptions under Rule 63 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure that arguably would apply here. That is, use an attorney's decision -- a government attorney's decision, necessary for the performance of his duty, or to help in another federal criminal investigation, or for another federal grand jury.

There are arguments one could make as to why it should be, you know, disclosed for those purposes. But listen, there have been a lot of documents disclosed already. Judge Prescott on that same court disclosed 4,553 documents, and the Second Circuit recently told her to consider disclosing more.

There's another case in which the Biden administration moved not to disclose the documents just a year ago in front of Judge Gardephe. So it's a shame to see politics playing out in these, you know, and suggestions by many on one political party or the other. But Judge Engelmayer did what he thought was appropriate.

FREEMAN: Do you expect that the Justice Department will appeal the judge's decision?

SCHOEN: I don't really know what to think of that. I expect they will because there seems to be some sort of public expectation now, or there's criticism politically if they don't. But I don't know that a court of appeals would come to another decision. It's usually left within the discretion of the reviewing judge.

FREEMAN: You know, David, the judge suggested that the administration knew better all along and might have intended by this filing to basically have created a diversion here. What's your take on that? Because, again, the judge was very strong in his language.

SCHOEN: Yes, well, as I say, he's a very bright judge. I don't see it that way, frankly. I see the administration reacting to, you know, political pressure and other pressures being brought to seek and to try to be able to show that they're exerting the maximum effort toward transparency that they can.

I just don't quite understand still the public interest in this issue. But I don't think it's going away anytime soon, as we know from a position taken today by certain Democratic congressmen.

FREEMAN: David, you've said a number of times Epstein told you in 2019 that he did not have any dirt on President Trump. And to be clear, the president has not been accused of any wrongdoing connected to Epstein. But CNN has this new visual timeline today showing their social relationship from the late 80s, dating all the way to the early 2000s.

Do you think that the timeline of their relationship, their friendship matters to how the administration has handled the decision making around Epstein and Maxwell? SCHOEN: I've seen some political experts make that suggestion. I don't think it's relevant, quite frankly, because what we do know is President Trump is the one person who kind of cut Jeffrey Epstein out of his life for reasons that he has given publicly now. I don't think it matters.

I think if the public is interested in this thing, they're interested in is there a smoking gun? Is there some indication of whatever wealthy, famous person, including President Trump, having some illicit or inappropriate relationship with a young woman or something like that? That's not there for President Trump.

And I think the names have come out in the little black book that was produced and so on and on other occasions. I just don't think there's any more to this story. But I understand sort of the prurient interest driving it.

FREEMAN: And there's going to be more press conferences from members of Congress about this. I mean, I don't think that the story for now, at least, is going away. So I'm sure we'll be speaking with you again soon.

David Schoen, thank you for your time, as always.

SCHOEN: Thank you very much.

FREEMAN: And when we come back, an update on the deadly CDC shooting in Atlanta. We'll tell you what Health Secretary RFK Jr. just said about the shooter's motive, which appears to contradict what investigators say.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Investigators are sharing new details about what officials call a targeted and deliberate attack on the CDC that left one police officer dead. Officials say the 30-year-old gunman unleashed nearly 500 rounds during the shooting before taking his own life last Friday. They also said that he left behind writings expressing his discontent with the COVID vaccine and that he wanted the world to know about it.

But as HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. appeared to contradict investigators in one of his first interviews since the attack, listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We don't know enough about what the motive was of this individual. But people can ask questions without being penalized. What I'm trying to do with the agency is return it to gold standard science.

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SANCHEZ: CNN senior national correspondent Ryan Young joins us now from Georgia. Ryan, what more are you learning?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris, I think that's going to be hard for people to hear, especially those who work at the CDC and who are involved with this investigation. It's been pretty clear since the beginning that they saw these writings that clearly noted that he thought that the COVID-19 vaccine had something to do with this.

And we learned more about the gunshots that were fired. At some point, we had this early image from the GBI where we thought maybe 70 to 100 rounds were fired. We now learned that 500 rounds were fired. That's just an enormous amount of bullets that were fired in and around that area.

You think about they counted over 200 bullets that hit six buildings around the CDC.

[15:45:00]

And this investigation also led to the suspect's house, where we've now learned the father, who's cooperating fully with the GBI, says that this suspected shooter went in and broke into the house and took the guns from a gun safe and all that ammunition.

I've been told by investigators that he changed rounds several different times. He had a lot of guns and then pointed a shotgun into his own body and opened fire and killing himself on the second floor of the CVS. You can listen to parts of this investigation from the GBI. Just take a listen to what they said earlier this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS HOSEY, DIRECTOR, GEORGIA BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: A search warrant executed at the residence of the shooter revealed written documentation that expressed the shooter's discontent with the COVID- 19 vaccinations.

All indications in our investigation was that they were secure and that he forced his way into the safe that contained the weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Yes, you think about all this pain that's in this community, especially around the shooting. A lot of people are showing up here to sign the card that's left here for David Rose, the officer who was killed in this. We know that shooter turned his gun that direction and started firing. David Rose died. Of course, he's a father of two current kids and his wife is pregnant.

This has really shattered this community. And since we've been here this afternoon, I would say more than 50, 60 people have shown up in the last two hours. So you understand the pain that's resonating across the area because they know the sort of life that was put on the line here. Someone who fought for this country, even as a Marine -- Boris. SANCHEZ: Yes, our thoughts are with his family. Ryan Young, thank you so much for that reporting.

Coming up, a surprise announcement from Taylor Swift announcing her 12th studio album. The details just minutes away.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FREEMAN: All right, it is here. It is not a drill. We are now in a new Taylor Swift era.

It was at 12:12 this morning on this 12th day of August when Taylor Swift announced her 12th original studio album, The Life of a Showgirl. And here's how she did it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR SWIFT: So I wanted to show you something.

TRAVIS KELCE: OK, what do we got?

SWIFT: We got

KELCE: A briefcase.

SWIFT: Yep.

T. KELCE: Mint green with T.S. on it.

SWIFT: Yep.

JASON KELCE: What's in it?

SWIFT: This is my brand new album, The Life of a Showgirl.

J. KELCE: Aaaaaggghh!

T. KELCE: TS 12!!!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: T.S. 12! All right, Jason Kelce, the hero of that particular clip right there. CNN Entertainment correspondent Elizabeth Wagmeister is here.

Elizabeth, great to see you. Lots of 12s. Apparently a lot of Easter eggs, I'm told, in this announcement as well.

What can you tell us?

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes, lots of Easter eggs. And I am a Taylor Swift connoisseur. So let me take you through it. So as it comes to the 12s, well, this is her 12th studio album, as you said, Danny, announced at 12:12 a.m. on August 12th. Always a lot of symbolism there. Well, it was long before 12:12 in the morning that the Swifties started speculating that something big was coming.

Why? Well, Taylor Nation, which is Taylor's official fan site on social media, they had posted 12 pictures, yes, of her performing during the Eras tour wearing orange. And the caption said something to the effect -- there you see it -- of thinking about when she said, see you next era.

Well, then the Kelce brothers, they posted a teaser of their podcast with a silhouette teasing a mystery guest. But of course, silhouettes don't work for the Swifties, because we all knew that that was Taylor Swift.

Now, even the Empire State Building, Danny, got in on the action. The Empire State Building -- there you see it -- lit up in orange, also tweeting about Taylor's next era. So as I always say every time I talk about Taylor, it's Taylor's world, we are living in it. She has control over New York City and really everything else -- Danny.

FREEMAN: Yes, I like the silhouette not fooling a single human being out there of who that was.

OK, but I understand, Elizabeth, there's a new playlist on Taylor's Spotify channel called And Baby, That's Show Business For You. What can you tell me about that?

WAGMEISTER: OK, so this is really important, Danny, because this actually gives us the biggest indication of what the music may sound like. So right when Taylor had announced last night that she was going to be dropping a new album, then in New York City and in Nashville, billboards went up, lit up in orange, directing fans to this Spotify playlist. While the playlist has 22 songs, if you're a Swifty, you know 22 is an important number.

In fact, the first song on that playlist is her hit 22. Well, why is this important? Because every single one of those 22 songs is produced by two producers that Taylor has previously worked with.

And those two producers happen to be behind her transition from country music to pop music. So now Swifties are speculating that this album is going to be Taylor's return to pop music because her last album, The Tortured Poets Department, it was a double album with 31 songs. It was more somber.

But you know, Taylor likes to write to what's happening in her life. And what happened as she was doing this album, Danny? Well, she's in love with Travis Kelce, and she had the biggest tour of all time.

So lots of good things going on with Taylor. And it seems we're going to get fun pop Taylor with this album.

FREEMAN: Fun pop Taylor. Finally, she can come back out and be fun pop Taylor. Elizabeth Wagmeister, thank you so much. Also love the orange motif of this album as well. Appreciate you.

WAGMEISTER: Thank you for noticing, Danny.

FREEMAN: We'll talk more. Thanks, Elizabeth.

[15:55:00]

All right, up next, a rough competition, let's say. We'll show you the winner of the 2025 World's Ugliest Dog Contest. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FREEMAN: Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder, and sometimes so is ugliness. A new dog has been crowned in the world's ugliest dog contest. The winner was, drumroll please, Petunia.

And on behalf of the CNN NEWS CENTRAL team, let us say Petunia looks like a very good dog to us. The two year old English-French bulldog mix has no hair but does have plenty of love to share.

SANCHEZ: She's adorable.

FREEMAN: That's just cute.

SANCHEZ: I object to her being called the world's ugliest dog.

This annual competition celebrates all unique furry family members and promotes pet adoptions alongside the title of the world's ugliest dog. Petunia took home a $5,000 cash prize, a sponsorship deal with my group here, and obviously the title of notoriety that comes with it.

Beauty, of course, only skin deep, but Petunia looks like a star pup through and through. I think that the commissioner at the Bureau of the World's Ugliest Dog should be fired, because this is clearly rigged. She's adorable. They're way uglier dogs.

FREEMAN: Cute

SANCHEZ: We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks so much for joining us today.

"THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

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