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Shooting Survivor Says His Friend Saved Him, Got Shot in Back; Police: 2 Children Killed, 14 Children & 3 Adults Hurt in School Shooting; Police: Shooter Carried a Rifle, a Shotgun, & a Pistol; Police: Two Children, Aged 8 and 10, Killed While in Church Pew; Police: Shooter Took Own Life After Killing at Least 2 Children; Shooter Opens Fire on Praying Students Through Church Windows; Pope: "Profoundly Saddened" by Deadly Catholic School Shooting. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired August 27, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:02:07]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We're following breaking news to CNN this afternoon and standing by for the governor of Minnesota, Tim Walz, and law enforcement officials as they plan to hold a press conference just minutes from now following a deadly shooting at a Catholic school in Minneapolis. The church sanctuary this morning filled with children attending their first mass of the school year when a shooter opened fire on them from outside. Two children, an eight-year-old and 10- year-old, we understand, were killed. Police say 17 other people were injured, 14 of them also just children.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Just a short time ago, police identified the shooter who targeted the school as 23-year-old Robin Westman. Police say the shooter died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Harrowing stories now emerging. Children saying they were cowering under pews during the shooting. A fifth-grade survivor sharing these chilling details.

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WESTON HALSNE, 10-YEAR-OLD SHOOTING SURVIVOR: It was like right beside me. I was like two seats away from the stained-glass windows. So, they were like - the shots were like right next to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scary.

HALSNE: Scared?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You went under the pew after that happened?

HALSNE: Yes, and then I got ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that what everyone tried to do?

HALSNE: I think I got like gunpowder on my neck, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you heard the shots, what went through your head?

HALSNE: I was like - the first one I was like, what is that? I thought it was just something, and then when I heard it again, I just ran under the pew, and then I covered my head. My friend Victor like saved me though, because he laid on top of me, but he got hit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's John Miller has some brand-new reporting on this. John, tell us what you're learning.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, we've been looking into the shooter who law enforcement sources have identified as Robin Westman, and police have been examining some of the postings online by an individual of the same name, presumed to be the same individual, which shows numerous weapons, magazines, things in preparation for the shooting, along with a book and different notes.

But one of them is particularly telling, in that it says, "I have waited for this for so long. I am not well. I am not right. I am a sad person, haunted by these thoughts that do not go away. I know this is wrong." And he goes on to describe that the action he is going to take against this world before taking his own life, which is not uncommon in these incidents, these active shooter scenarios, where you see someone who reports to be in pain, in trauma, and that they write all of this out and leave it behind with the foreknowledge that what they're about to do is going to end their own life as well while taking these strangers, these innocent people with them in the process.

[15:05:07]

But investigators are going back through this material and a lot of other material trying to determine motives. So, what do we know? I mean, what we know, if this, in fact, is from the shooter, that his motive was he was in pain. But what we don't see here, and there's more to go through, is what was what was the shooter, Robin Westman, in pain about specifically.

SANCHEZ: Yes, that is a good question that investigators will look at. I wonder, given what you described as an online post potentially made by this shooter, someone that law enforcement believes is the shooter, waiting for so long to do this, I'm paraphrasing what you just cited there, do we have any indication how long this was in a planning stage?

MILLER: So, Boris, that's a great question. It's part of the law enforcement investigation, which is to say to obtain all of this weaponry, whether or not he had it or it was obtained for this specific event. How long ago did that happen? To make these videos and to write all of this copy about his life and what he was about to do, that took time to prepare. But some indicators we see plainly, which is when he arrives on the

scene with three different weapons, when he apparently uses two by four wooden planks to bar the doors of the church from the outside to keep people from fleeing as an effort to maintain containment as he fires repeatedly through the windows of that building, which he knows and can see is full of children.

The idea of showing up 15 minutes after the start of the of the mass for the children from the school really indicates he's been studying that location, waiting for this event and bringing equipment that he needed to achieve maximum lethality, as much killing as he could, which takes time and planning. So, one could estimate at least weeks, if not longer.

KEILAR: John, were these videos online for a while before the shooting? I mean, had - people had the ability to see them or interact with them? No, you're shaking your head no.

MILLER: What I've been told is that they appeared just before the shooting and not in enough time for anyone to decipher who that was, what the target was going to be and so on. But that is another thing that law enforcement is going to be looking at, which is are there forensics and on the technical side to tell them, well, when were the video shot and were they posted by the individual as he left to go carry out this horrific act or did he have some technical setup?

And we've seen that before as well, where it was automatically posted at a time when he thought he would be in progress or finished.

KEILAR: All right, John Miller, thank you so much for the very latest there. We do appreciate it.

And we're joined now by the former Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis and former Secret Service agent Jonathan Wackrow.

Ed, to you first.

We are looking here at what happened today. What is standing out to you as we're now learning more about the shooter?

ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Good afternoon. Well, the depravity of this is the most striking thing, especially targeting children. That just doesn't seem to be anything off limits anymore. So, that's extremely troubling.

John did some great reporting there talking about these posts, and they were probably done at the last minute. But I wonder in this day and age, whether we can't have algorithms on social media outlets that would alert people to this type of posting immediately. There's a lot of things that are being done. I've never heard that as being one of them.

The other thing is the toll that this takes on the community and they - and the people who were witness to it. That young boy that was speaking, the fifth grader, that is a traumatic experience for him. And I can remember in dealing with a bunch of different tragedies in the city of Boston, the victim witness advocates and the efforts made by the mayor's office after the marathon to help the people deal with the psychological and physical trauma that occurs to this. You cannot underestimate that.

And then, the third thing is copycats. You always worry about copycats in a situation like this. I can remember convening all of our bureau heads after an incident happened in another part of the country and getting out to be preventive at synagogues or universities or other places.

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We have to pay close attention to this.

SANCHEZ: And Jonathan, when you think about the fact that the shooter clearly meditated on what they were targeting and wanting to inflict damage on people, as John Miller cited in the social media posts that are believed to be belonging to the 23-year-old shooter, I'm not well, I'm not right. There's clearly some conflict when they say, I know this is not right. A church and a school are just about as soft a target as you can get, but also there's something symbolic about choosing that as a target, right? I imagine that investigators are looking at this as the shooter potentially trying to send some kind of message.

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Boris, you're absolutely right. Look, what we're seeing here and what investigators are actually really focusing on right now is how all of this fits into the pathway of violence that law enforcement has long known and long studied when it comes to targeted acts of violence. So, you know, we know right now, this was not an impulsive act. It followed known stages of grievance, known stages of grievance, violent ideations, planning, and preparation.

In the choice of the mass setting, as you had just articulated, the use of multiple weapons, the smoke canisters, the barricading of the doors to prevent the victims from escaping, all showed that this individual had moved fully from those previous stages of violent - the pathway to violence into really the execution of the attack.

The key takeaway here, Boris, is that at every earlier stage in this pathway of violence, there are warning signs that can be recognized and then actioned upon. If you think about behavior is really a continuum, like this individual didn't just wake up this morning and say, I'm going to go kill all these children and attack this church and school. There was multiple warning signs along this behavioral continuum that we as a community need to actually learn how to identify and, you know, engage in, you know, early intervention around behavioral issues, so we don't get to that final stage of the attack.

John Miller's point earlier around, you know, these videos in this communication, research from the Secret Service National Threat Assessment Center has proven this. Over 75 percent of the time when we study these mass attacks, concerning communication was made previously by the attacker, whether in the moments before, maybe in this instance, but also things in their digital history, their postings, you know, also conveyed this, you know, concerning communication, you know, prior to the attack.

We as a community have to get better at identifying those signals and then again, working, you know, collaboratively to, you know, prevent these tragic acts from happening.

KEILAR: Yes, it's such a good point that you raised there, Jonathan.

Ed, maybe you can kind of expand on that. Because as we heard police say not an extensive criminal history, that doesn't mean there aren't data points, right, that are obvious. And I think investigators are expecting that as they delve into this, they're probably going to find those. So, as Jonathan's talking there about as a community, we need to get better about kind of seeing these breadcrumbs, who in the community, I mean, and how can we be making sure that they're taken seriously?

Because I think we'll also - I think you'll hear anecdotally from some people, teachers who have had concerns in the past about people who turned out to be shooters. They don't always feel that they're taken seriously. How can - who are the people who can identify and how can we make sure that whatever they're seeing is taken seriously?

DAVIS: It's a very good point, Jonathan makes. And whether you're talking about the shooting in Newtown or this incident, you usually find people afterwards that do see something unusual. If you've got a young man that's showing signs of depression and is withdrawn, and all of a sudden, he becomes fixated on firearms and is purchasing large amounts of ammunition, someone knows that. Someone in the family probably understands that there's a problem, and is hoping against hope that it doesn't manifest itself.

We have to put systems in place where people feel confident and comfortable in raising the alarm. And there should be protocols that don't vilify someone who was identified, but simply address it and try to get them the help that they need. If it does start to escalate where it's clear that there's planning going on, then a full court press has to be made.

But, you know, we just shouldn't have to live like this.

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This kind of an assault on young children is unacceptable in our society. And it's really important that we do everything we can to stop it.

SANCHEZ: Ed Davis, Jonathan Wackrow, we'll leave the conversation there. Appreciate you both.

Still ahead, more on our breaking news coverage of this tragic shooting at the Annunciation Church and school in Minneapolis. We are awaiting a briefing from state and local officials in Minneapolis just about 15 minutes from now. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

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[15:19:53]

SANCHEZ: We're following the Dudley mass shooting at Annunciation Catholic School in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Police said the shooter there fired through church windows toward children sitting in the pews.

KEILAR: Yes, and these were young children in a lot of these cases, ranging from pre-kindergarten to eighth grade. And as the mayor of Minneapolis points out, they were praying at the time this happened. Their sanctuary, now a crime scene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JACOB FREY (D) MINNEAPOLIS: Don't just say this is about thoughts and prayers right now. These kids were literally praying. It was the first week of school. They were in a church. These are kids that should be learning with their friends. They should be playing on the playground. They should be able to go to school or church in peace without the fear or risk of violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: We're joined now by Father Edward Beck. He's a CNN Religion Contributor and also Roman Catholic priest.

And Father, we're hearing from Pope Leo sending his heartfelt condolences and the assurance of spiritual closeness to all those affected by this terrible tragedy. But I think there is a sense that, you know, two kind of sacred places have been pierced by this. You know, the church, the school, incredibly vulnerable children. Tell us a little bit about how you're thinking about this moment.

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think for me, the real horrific part of this, as you mentioned, Brianna, is that a place of sanctuary and peace and community and prayer and connectedness has been utterly violated by this person. And I think it will be interesting to find out, was there a reason that he chose a church as opposed to the school. Maybe that was more easily accessible to the church than the school. Maybe it was less secure to get in the church.

Obviously, he knew that there was going to be a school opening mass. It was on the school calendar. And yet, as we hear that this young man who did the shooting has said that he was very much in pain and sad. And the fact that someone could feel so isolated and so sad to be driven in mental illness to do something like this is horrific in itself. But then to have the access to weapons to do that, it's just - there's so many complicated issues involved here. But first and foremost is the fact that a place of peace for those children and everybody in that church will never feel like a place of sanctuary, I don't think. A church for them will be a reminder of a place of violence rather than a place where they can find refuge.

SANCHEZ: Father, give us some context around this mass that's celebrated to mark the start of the school year that has a unique purpose for a Catholic school community. BECK: Yes, Boris, usually it's a mass of the Holy Spirit. Many

Catholic universities, I'm here at Manhattan University, and many Catholic grammar schools and high schools have a mass, a mass of the Holy Spirit to begin the school year. That's why they were gathered in the church. Obviously, the gunman knew this.

But it's a way to really focus the mission of the community on what's important so that they gather for the mass. And very often there's a homily about them being students in the context of a Catholic school and what the values are. And of course, all of that seems like rhetoric when it's shattered by such violence.

I mean, to preach Jesus, who is a person of peace and nonviolence, and the gospel message, which is what is preached in a Catholic church and many Christian churches, then for that to be violated by a person like this with such violent intent, I mean, it's so antithetical.

And so, I think that, again, the beginning of the school year is supposed to be this happy time of looking forward, of hope, of being together as a community of faith. And yet, obviously, this mass, unfortunately, for enunciation school in their church was not that.

And it just - it really pains me. I mean, as a minister of the church, it just really saddens me to think that that place of refuge for so many people, which I've witnessed as a priest and as a minister in the church, can be so violated. I mean, we've seen it done in Baptist churches before in the South. It's not the first time that a church has been targeted by children for an opening mass. I mean, it's just awful.

KEILAR: Yes, it's horrific. And places of worship, right? As you said, churches, synagogues, mosques, we've seen these be targets. And really, the only thing that religious leaders and parishioners should be thinking of is, okay, what is the message that is going to be imparted? What are they going to get out of this time there at their place of worship?

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And now there are other things on their mind, Father. And I just wonder, as you're thinking about security at church, you know, how are Catholic churches, other places of worship, how are they thinking about that this afternoon, following what has happened?

BECK: Well, Brianna, in the past, when events like this have occurred, there has been beefed up security at places of worship. Of course, we see this with synagogues all of the time. If you walk around Manhattan, you see big cinder blocks, unfortunately, in front of synagogues to protect them from a car bomber or someone, you know, nefarious getting into the service. And again, usually Catholic churches don't have security for the masses. I mean, we as the priests are vulnerable, the congregants are vulnerable, obviously students are vulnerable. And you're always thinking, is a very sick, mentally ill person, an angry person, going to do something like this?

You hope, of course, it never happens. But as you say, we have seen it happen. So, I suspect that we will see once again, not only in the Catholic church, but other churches, a real eye to detail for how can we make this more secure? I mean, you don't want to have security like a school where everybody has to go through a turnstile, or, you know, some kind of gun control booth or something. But I think we have to really realize that in the society in which we are living, in which violent weapons are so accessible, even to mentally ill people, that no one is safe, and nothing is a sanctuary, unfortunately.

KEILAR: Father Edward Beck, thank you for being with us as we are reflecting on what this means very broadly. We appreciate it.

BECK: Thank you both.

KEILAR: And we'll have more on this breaking news out of Minneapolis. Next, we are going to speak with an emergency medical services doctor whose family members are survivors of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. And we are also waiting on a briefing from state and local officials, including Minnesota Governor Tim Walz. That is expected to begin here in just minutes, and we'll be bringing that to you. Stay with us.

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