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Trump Visits U.K.; FBI Director Grilled on Capitol Hill; Federal Reserve Expected to Cut Interest Rates; Fired CDC Director Testifies Before Senate. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 17, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): And I thank the two of you for taking the risk to your personal life to come today.

Anything less than radical transparency betrays the trust the American people have given to us and betrays the mandate the president has delivered. One thing that reportedly is going to be discussed at the upcoming ACIP meeting is ending the recommendation for the birth dose of hepatitis B vaccine.

Now, again, this was my practice for 20 years before I entered politics. More than 90 percent of infants -- let me start over. For those who say, why should a child be vaccinated for a sexually transmitted disease when they're at birth, the child passes through the birth canal and is exposed to the same secretions as one would otherwise.

And that passage through the birth canal makes that child vulnerable to the virus being transmitted, not just hepatitis B. It can be HIV. It can be other things. But in terms of hepatitis B, that happens. If that child is infected at birth, more than 90 percent of them develop chronic lifelong infection.

Now, we will talk about the consequences of that in a second. Before 1991, as many as 20,000 babies, babies, were infected with hepatitis B in the United States of America. And that change when the hepatitis B vaccine was approved for newborns.

And, by the way, as Dr. Monarez says, this doesn't mandate, doesn't say you can't leave the hospital unless you get it. It just says that if the mother accepts, then the insurance company has to pay. It's not mandated. It's just like, mama, if you think it's a good idea, accept it.

In the decade following approval of a birth dose of hepatitis B, newborn infection of hepatitis B reduced by 68 percent. That's in the decade, so that's up to 2001. Now fewer than 20 babies per year get hepatitis B from their mother.

That is an accomplishment to make America healthy again. And we should stand up and salute the people that made that decision, because there's people who would otherwise be dead if those mothers were not given that option to have their child vaccinated. Now, by the way, there's some who said they have never seen it, so

therefore it cannot exist. I want to submit for the record a link to an X thread in which Dr. James Wong (ph) from California shares his personal information. This doctor, he was infected at birth. He developed cirrhosis. He almost died.

Now, because of modern medicine, that hepatitis B virus is controlled. But he has to get screened regularly and lives with a specter of getting liver cancer because he got cirrhosis when he was infected as a baby. It does occur. It occurs less often now.

So we can argue, now that we have controlled it, do we let the genie out of the bottle? If the recommendation goes away and a parent does want the vaccine, insurance will no longer cover it free of charge. She will be forced to pay out of pocket.

With that, this brings us to the conclusion. Any senator wishing to ask additional questions, questions for the record will be due at 5:00 p.m. Wednesday, October 1.

Thank you again for the witnesses. Thank you for the audience. You were very respectful. The committee stands adjourned.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We have just been watching explosive testimony on Capitol Hill, ousted CDC Director Susan Monarez telling her side of the story, testifying about why she was fired just 29 days after her boss, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., welcomed her into the role.

A reminder, Secretary Kennedy said he fired her because she refused to say that she was a trustworthy person. Here's Monarez's side of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SUSAN MONAREZ, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: That morning, I had been clear that I was not going to fire scientists, that I was not going to commit to preapproving vaccine recommendations without data and science.

I had been very alarmed at the demands, and I had reached out as part of what I understood my obligations, to communicate that to this committee. The secretary became aware of that. And in the context of those activities, he told me he could not trust me. I told him that, if he could not trust me, he could fire me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Monarez under oath suggesting that Secretary Kennedy is a threat to American public health, accusing him of putting politics first, saying she's very nervous about a vaccine committee meeting set for tomorrow, because she believes that a scientifically disproven skeptic is right now in charge.

[13:05:16]

The CDC's chief medical officer who recently resigned and testified beside her also expressing her concern.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DEBRA HOURY, FORMER CDC CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER: Given what I have seen, if we continue down this path, we are not prepared not just for pandemics, but for preventing chronic health disease, and we're going to see kids dying of vaccine-preventable diseases.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta leads us off.

Sanjay, what were your biggest takeaways?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think about halfway through covering the pandemic, Boris, I realized that very few things could be disentangled from politics, including science and the sort of stories that I cover.

And this hearing was mostly politics. So I think people who are watching this who have very understandable questions about the utility of vaccines would be left pretty confused. One of the things I think that's coming up is this idea that, over the next couple of days, this advisory committee on vaccines, we're going to see what the recommendations are.

But I think it's pretty clear from what we heard today there's going to be some wholesale changes to the childhood vaccine schedule. We don't know what they are yet. We're going to wait and see. But what was striking is that, according to Dr. Monarez, she was asked to preapprove these recommendations, even though she hadn't seen the recommendations.

They were coming from a committee that had not even been fully assembled yet. And there was no data or evidence or new science to suggest that the vaccine schedule be changed in some way. I want you to listen to this exchange about that point between Senator Cassidy and Dr. Monarez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MONAREZ: As a matter of fact, we got into an exchange where I had suggested that I would be open to changing childhood vaccine schedules if the evidence or science were supportive. And he responded that there was no science or evidence associated with the childhood vaccine schedule.

And he elaborated that CDC had never collected the science or the data to make it available related to the safety and efforts.

CASSIDY: To be clear, he said there was not science or data, but that he still expected you to change the schedule?

MONAREZ: Correct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: That's obviously concerning, right, I mean, making big changes to the childhood vaccine schedule without science or data.

So we will see what the next two days hold. But I just want to share this with you, Boris, because I think this gets lost in the discussion about the utility of vaccines overall, and this is on the CDC's Web site. So if you look over the last 30 years, what have childhood vaccines done?

Prevented more than 500 million illnesses, prevented more than 32 million hospitalizations, and prevented more than a million deaths. That is according to the CDC. And at the same time, you're hearing that, look, there is no data suggesting the utility of vaccines.

People are confused, Boris. I mean, this is no joke. I mean, people are confused about the utility of vaccines. So I just -- I feel like we need to make sure we say that every opportunity we get.

SANCHEZ: Yes, no doubt.

And when it comes to this highly anticipated meeting, there are indications, as you said, that they might change the vaccine schedule for children. What are you anticipating?

GUPTA: Well, I think that there's going to be three vaccines that are probably going to be sort of examined and discussed probably the most, MMRV, which is measles, mumps, rubella, and varicella, which is chicken pox vaccine.

Hepatitis B vaccine -- and I don't know if you heard the closing remarks there from Senator Cassidy, who is a doctor and focused a lot on hepatitis B vaccine during his medical career. He extolled the virtues of that, talked about the fact that, before the hepatitis B vaccine, there were some 20,000 kids who would get hepatitis B, and that can lead to serious problems, can lead to lifelong infection, even liver cancer later on down the road.

And now there's in the hundreds of kids who get this infection, because of the vaccination. So I think those two will definitely be discussed on Thursday and probably Friday. There will be a lot of discussion around COVID vaccines.

SANCHEZ: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much for the reporting -- Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Next hour, we're going to learn the results of one of the most extraordinary meetings of the Federal Reserve Board. Not only are the members expected to issue a rate cut for the first time this year, but it comes amid an incredible pressure from President Trump to cut rates.

And it will be the first time that someone working for the White House gets a vote. Trump appointee Stephen Miran will be at the table. It's only his second day on the job at the Fed. The Senate confirmed him on Monday. Miran says he's staying on the White House Council of Economic Advisers after getting an OK from legal counsel.

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CNN's Matt Egan is with us now. He's there at the Federal Reserve headquarters.

Matt, another big question today, just how big will this potential rate cut be?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, Brianna, well, you're right about this being one of the most extraordinary Fed meetings in recent memory, first because of all of the mixed signals and confusion about the state of the economy, but also because of all of this political uncertainty and political pressure on the Federal Reserve.

And yet investors, they're pretty confident, right, an interest rate cut is likely imminent. They're pricing in a 94 percent chance of a quarter-point cut today and a 6 percent chance of a bigger cut of half-a-percentage point.

Now, either way, this would be the first interest rate cut of the second Trump administration. Now, this is not coming because inflation has been defeated, right? It hasn't been. In fact, inflation is actually at a seven-month high. It's coming because Federal Reserve officials are increasingly concerned about the state of the job market.

Now, a quarter-point cut, it could help some borrowers on the margin, especially people who have credit card debt or home equity lines of credit. But we should be clear that a quarter-point cut, this is not going to be a magic wand that fixes the economy. Interest rates are still high because the Fed had to spike interest rates three years ago to fight inflation.

Now, I got to tell you, I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in this Fed meeting, because, as you mentioned, it's including Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, who the president tried to fire, but who's fighting back in court, also including one of the president's top economists, Stephen Miran, who just joined the Fed this week. It's really extraordinary.

Now, looking forward, a couple of things that I'm looking for is, how does the Fed adjust its statement to acknowledge the trouble in the job market? How many Federal Reserve officials dissent from this decision? Last time, we saw two Fed governors dissent. It's possible we could see three. That hasn't happened since the late 1980s.

And, perhaps most importantly, what does the Fed signal about interest rate cuts going forward? We're going to be getting new economic and interest rate projections coming up soon -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, thank you so much, Matt Egan, for that.

And coming up: the head of the FBI on the Hill and on defense. Insults fly as Kash Patel faces off with lawmakers for the second day in a row over his leadership at the agency. And a royal welcome for President Trump's unprecedented second state

visit to the U.K. We're live from Windsor Castle with what's at stake for this trip.

And takeoff aborted, as flames start shooting out of a plane's engine before its departure from Boston Logan Airport. What we're learning about the incident.

Stay with us.

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[13:17:27]

SANCHEZ: FBI Director Kash Patel is back in the hot seat on Capitol Hill today with more contentious exchanges with lawmakers, including insults, shouting matches, even expletives, as Patel is grilled by the House Judiciary Committee.

CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez is here.

So, Evan, what has stood out to you from this testimony so far?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the number of expletives. I mean, there's a lot of B.S. apparently being thrown around by both some of the members of this panel, the House Judiciary Committee, and by the FBI director himself.

Look, I have never seen an FBI Director do this in one of these hearings yesterday and in today's hearing. He's pushing back very forcefully, and he's insulting some of the members of Congress, saying that -- "I'm calling B.S. on your entire career in Congress." He told this to Eric Swalwell, a member of Congress who was asking him some questions.

Most of this hearing so far has been Democrats asking about the Epstein files. They're showing him videos of him sort of engaging in some of the conspiracies about a cover-up and now accusing him of being part of a new cover-up of the Epstein files.

Republicans have largely stayed away from that. They have focused mostly on some of the good news, the drop in crime and some of the other things that the FBI has been doing. And they have also focused on the 2016 election, which again is under investigation, except for Thomas Massie.

He is the one who has broken ranks and has addressed the Epstein files. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): Were you present when the A.G. had the White House event when she released the binders to social media influencers?

KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: I was, yes. MASSIE: And so if you were willing to meet with social media

influencers who stood to benefit from the sensational and sad stories of these victims, will you meet with the victims as well?

PATEL: The FBI Will meet with anyone who has new information.

MASSIE: Will you personally meet with them?

PATEL: The FBI and the professionals who are handling the cases will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: So there you have the FBI director not committing to personally meet with any of the victims. And I'm not sure what exactly that would mean if he actually did, but it is notable that he won't commit to that.

And so the hearing is still ongoing. There's still a number of more fistfights that we expect to be happening in that hearing room. But I'm not sure that this is really going to get us any more information about the Epstein files or about any of these other investigations.

SANCHEZ: Evan Perez, thanks so much for the report.

[13:20:00]

So, students at Utah Valley University are returning to campus with heavy hearts today, just one week after the assassination of Charlie Kirk. We're also learning that several Trump administration officials are expected to speak at Kirk's memorial service in Glendale, Arizona, on Sunday.

The Turning Point memorial page says that joining President Trump will be White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles, Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Secretary of State Marco Rubio, and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.

We're also hearing from former President Barack Obama on this, reflecting on the assassination last night during an event in Pennsylvania.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are certainly at an inflection point, not just around political violence, but there are a host of larger trends that we have to be concerned about.

I think it is important for us at the outset to acknowledge that political violence is not new. It has happened at certain periods in our history. But it is something that is anathema to what it means to be a democratic country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The 22-year-old suspect in Kirk's killing now faces seven charges, including aggravated murder. His next court appearance scheduled for September 29.

Still ahead: President Trump met with pomp and circumstance as he arrives in the U.K. for his second historic state visit. We're live from Windsor with the latest.

Plus: ticktock for TikTok, the president once again delaying a nationwide ban on the app after the administration says it has struck a deal with China -- what this all means for you ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[13:26:29]

KEILAR: Britain's royal family welcoming President Trump and first lady Melania Trump with pomp and pageantry for the first full day of an historic second state visit.

While President Trump met with the royal family, 25 miles away in London, demonstrators gathered for an anti-Trump protest.

We have CNN White House reporter Alayna Treene and CNN royal correspondent Max Foster and Windsor following all of these events.

Alayna, first to you. That pomp and pageantry is right up President Trump's alley. The royal family certainly must know that.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Oh, absolutely.

And I think the strategy, of course, Brianna, is also not lost on the White House, not to say it's not working. This is the type of thing that the president kind of relishes. I'd actually note that a little bit ago we saw what they called the beating retreat, essentially a ceremony where people were in military uniforms marching.

You saw the president sitting under a dais next to the first lady, as well as the king and queen. But then they had the rare -- the Red Arrows do a flyover. And you saw the red, white and blue kind of streaming in the plane's wake. That is exactly the type of thing that the president has a great appreciation for.

I know in my conversations with some of the people who are here on the ground inside the castle were telling me that the president very much enjoyed that. And, of course, I think one of the big things as well, one of the moments that a lot of people are looking forward to is that state banquet this evening. It'll be, of course, inside the 900-year- old castle.

You're going to see the president and the first lady, but also a number of the president's top officials and aides, people like the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, the secretary of treasury, Scott Bessent, Steve Witkoff, his special envoy, many others as well, all joining him, including as well some allies and friends of the president.

So that is going to be a big moment. It's also a moment, I'm told, that Melania Trump has been planning for months now her outfits around to make sure that this is a spectacle. And that's really what today is about, a lot of pageantry, a lot of ceremony.

And, of course, the reason for a lot of this is that the U.K. wants to ingratiate Trump with them, particularly ahead of tomorrow, when we're going to see really the politics come into play, where we know that there are going to be some trade deals discussed. I am sure tariffs, of course, are going to be discussed, technology deals on the agenda for when the president meets with the prime minister at the prime minister's country estate in Chequers.

And a lot of this is to really solidify and strengthen that relationship between these two countries at a time when Trump has shown little interest in keeping with the post-World War II order. And so that's what a lot of this is about.

One striking moment, though, that I do want to bring up, Brianna and Boris, is that we have seen the president and King Charles have a lot of moments, one-on-one, private conversations, very kind of different from what we saw back from his state visit in 2019. Of course, those tend to be private. We likely won't get any information on what they actually discussed.

But we know they have very different politics, and King Charles, especially, wanting more aid for Ukraine to fight Russia's aggression, climate change another big priority of his. So, we -- he could potentially have brought those up or bring those up later today. All of that, we are watching very keenly.

KEILAR: And, Max, you have covered many of these visits. Talk to us about this one and how it compares in scale and significance.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: It was supersized on every level. Wherever they could make it bigger, they made it bigger, the guard of honor, usually one company, three companies.