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Threats To Democracy Could Damage U.S. Economy; More Countries To Recognize Palestinian State At U.N. This Week; Trump Names U.S. Tech, Media Giants In TikTok Deal. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired September 22, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:31:15]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning business leaders are warning that recent moves by the president, like his sweeping global tariffs, like publicly pressuring the Federal Reserve to slash interest rates, and like threatening media companies for simply criticizing him -- all of this business leaders now warn could have a serious impact on the economy.

CNN's Matt Egan joining us now with much more on this. What are they warning and what are you seeing?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah, Kate. Look, there is growing alarm among some political scientists about the state of democracy in America.

Just think about some of the recent events, right? August 1, the president fired the nation's top statistician over a bad jobs report, right? The U.S. is taking a 10 percent stake in intel. The president announced that he's firing, for the first time ever, a sitting governor of the Federal Reserve. And just last week the chair of the FCC threatened Disney over Jimmy Kimmel comments.

Now, this is all really just since the second half of the summer and just some events that are touching the business world.

I talked to Vanessa Williamson over at the Brooking Institution and she told me that the threats against Disney and ABC -- she said that's what you would expect to see in an unfree country. She said it's straight from the autocratic playbook. And she said she's never been more concerned about the state of democracy in the U.S.

And some conservatives -- they're cringing at the heavy-handed approach that the administration has taken with the private sector.

The president's own former Vice President Mike Pence -- he was on CNBC, and he said that state ownership -- that's the kind of thing that's common in China and in Russia -- countries that are, of course, far from democracy. And he said that these moves have taken our country to a very perilous place.

And for the business world these are not trivial matters, right? There's research out there that shows that democracies -- they tend to have stronger economies because there is stronger investment and more stable policymaking. And populists who tend to undermine existing institutions -- they tend to have weaker economic growth.

One study that looked at dozens of populist presidents and prime ministers around the world found that after 15 years GDP per capita was 10 percent lower than when you compare it with a plausible non- populist counter factual.

And look, publicly, a lot of business leaders -- they've been pretty quiet, right? It seems like a lot of them -- they don't want to poke the bear. But privately some of them are concerned and that's according to Yale professor Jeff Sonnenfeld who is known as the CEO whisperer because of all of his contacts in the business community.

Take a listen to what Sonnenfeld told me.

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JEFFREY SONNENFELD, PROFESSOR, YALE SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT: Our CEO groups are around 70 percent -- 70-75 percent Republican. They tell us 80 percent that they're disappointed with the performance of the economy under Trump and they'll go through specifics about what they don't like about tariff policies and the like, and the independence of the Fed. But more than anything else it's the corrosive effect on and threat to the free enterprise system of not having a functioning democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EGAN: So Kate, he went on to say that, listen -- CEO's, they need to speak with one voice and speak collectively and vocally and voice these concerns about the state of democracy. And time will tell if the business community starts to speak out.

BOLDUAN: That's a good point.

It's great to see, Matt. Thank you so much.

EGAN: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Really interesting -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now is senior political commentator Scott Jennings, and Meghan Hays, the former White House direct of message planning under President Biden.

Actually, we're going to come back to the message of populism and capitalism in just a second there. It's interesting because it does blend in with some of the subjects today.

But first, very quickly, Meghan, I do want to ask about the Charlie Kirk memorial from a political standpoint, which is the energy that was in that room. The energy that is still surrounding and maybe even growing under Erika Kirk and in among young Republicans.

[07:35:00]

I was reading Nathan Gonzales -- our friend from Inside Elections was quoted in The Wall Street Journal today saying that this energy might help Republicans in a midterm election where normally the incumbent party might see some deflation there. What should Democrats be concerned about?

MEGHAN HAYS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION CONSULTANT: So I do think that's right. I think Erika did rise to the moment in her speech. It was very incredible. She forgave the shooter, which was an incredible moment of unity.

But the unfortunate thing is Donald Trump, who is the leader of our country, did not rise to the moment. He was very divisive. He blamed his enemies. He was just more of the same from him.

And so I do -- while I do think that the movement with young people is still there for Turning Point and for Erika Kirk, I don't necessarily think it's there for the president. So we'll see how it plays out, but I just don't think people are rallying around the president.

BERMAN: Do you think there might be enough of a movement headed toward the midterms to be a force? To maybe counter some of the anti- incumbency that we do see every off-year election.

HAYS: I just don't know that young people turn out to vote in the same way that they normally do in a presidential. If they don't turn out in the presidential, they're not going to turn out in the midterm either. So I just worry it is a driving force for young people. I'm just not sure that enthusiasm is behind the president going into a midterm.

BERMAN: Scott, so what about what was discordant message at the memorial to an extent? You had the powerful -- really powerful message of faith from Erika Kirk and other speakers there. And then President Trump -- and he was laughing and I -- and there were people in the crowd laughing when he said it, but he did say that he doesn't -- he hates his opponents and he wants to crush them, basically.

What about that message?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, HOST, "THE SCOTT JENNINGS SHOW" ON SALEM RADIO: Yeah. Look, I'm not going to criticize the president. His friend died and he gave the eulogy and he -- you know, he did in the way that Donald Trump would do it. He made some very beautiful remarks. He made some only -- jokes that only Donald Trump could make. And, you know, he did it in the way that, frankly, I expected him to do it, and I think the crowd responded to it.

I think what you saw on the stage yesterday from Trump to Erika Kirk, to all the other speakers -- and I thought it was extremely well done and very powerful -- was a reflection of the range of emotions that Republicans and conservatives and Christians have felt since Charlie was assassinated. I mean, the most powerful thing I heard yesterday was Erika forgiving

the assassin. That was the most powerful witness to the Christian message -- to the gospel of Jesus Christ that I think we could have possibly had.

And so, although I think it's natural for us to try to analyze the politics of this or to nitpick the political actors, to me yesterday's event was as much a faith event and a spiritual awakening for the country as it was anything.

And so how it affects the midterms or how it affects Donald Trump the political person, I don't know. But I know how it affected Scott Jennings the Christian, and I think I know how it might have affected millions of -- millions of people who maybe didn't know what Christianity was all about. And so in Charlie's death perhaps there's a revival of our faith and people looking for something better than what this world often has to offer. That would be a great outcome.

BERMAN: Again, what Erika Kirk did say was extremely powerful and was separate from politics. You did have that feeling watching it.

Back to the issue of populism there, and Matt Egan was touching on this a little bit. And I'm not surprised. I don't think any of us should be surprised that business leaders don't love a message of populism.

But Elizabeth Warren, in a podcast, made some comments about something she wanted to say way back in 2012 at the Democratic Convention when she gave one of the keynote speeches. I'm going to read you what she said in a podcast.

She says, "It's the summer before the election in November 2012 and Democrats invite me to do a keynote speech at the national convention. And the line I have in this speech is something like 'People all across the country feel like the game is rigged against them. And they're right. It is.' Then I talk about the things that I think we should do.

So we send this speech to be approved by the powers that be in the Democratic Party and they say, no. Take those lines out. You cannot say that this economy is rigged."

So this is way back in 2012. And Sen. Warren's point is that ultimately, Donald Trump co-opted this message and has won two elections over 12 years on that message, but it's something that Democrats need to be smarter about.

What do you think?

HAYS: I absolutely agree. I think that that's why you see people going back and forth and you see all these soft voters that go back and forth between Dems and Republicans. They don't their government is working for them. They don't see how their lives are getting better. And when you make promises and don't keep them, then they vote for the other party. And then this party is making promises and not keeping them, and so you just see that over and over. And so that's why Democrats have a real opportunity here to actually

do something. Save people's health care instead of having the government shut down. Work with Republicans to get health care saved. So you actually see an opportunity for Democrats here moving into the midterms to actually do something for people and make their lives better.

BERMAN: How complicated will it be, Scott, for Republicans to continue to argue the economy is rigged against the people when it now is the Trump economy with Trump tariffs and the Trump tax cuts, and the Trump administration running the government?

JENNINGS: Well look, when you're in power you have to deal with the results of your choices. And we have a long way to go until the next midterm and there are some signs that some of what President Trump is doing is working and there are other things we're waiting on.

[07:40:05]

I mean, we don't know what the Supreme Court is going to do this fall with the Liberation Day tariffs, for instance. If they were to throw them out that would throw sort of another wrinkle into this overall conversation.

So I think honestly, it's a little too soon to tell. The president has been in office for eight months. The big, beautiful bill passed in July. We have over a year to go until the midterm.

I do think people generally want to feel like the country is on a better trajectory. I don't think people expect it to be totally fixed, and they thought it was very, very broken under Democrats. It doesn't have to be totally fixed but they want to feel like the trajectory is correct.

And so when I'm looking at the political impacts next summer it's do we think we're back on the right track? Is there optimism for the future? If those things are tracking, then I think Republicans have a chance to kick their historical coverage for the midterm.

BERMAN: Do you think Democrats should run on the economy being rigged this time, Meghan?

HAYS: I don't know that necessarily being rigged, but I do think they need to run on the economy. The prices are incredibly high and they need to work on bringing those down and making sure that people know that they're doing that.

BERMAN: Meghan Hays, Scott Jennings, great to see you both today. Thanks for coming in this Monday -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. New this morning the Trump administration slamming a new bill signed into law by California Gov. Gavin Newsom. The "No Secret Police Act" bans most law enforcement officers, including federal immigration agents, from wearing masks while on duty, including while they're conducting raids.

CNN's Julia Vargas is joining us now. Good morning to you, Julia.

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Sara. Good to see you.

Look, the pushback to this new legislation was almost immediate and yet it is another move on the ongoing political chess match between Gov. Gavin Newsom and the Trump administration.

We heard from Tricia McLaughin, the homeland security assistant secretary for public affairs, criticizing this bill, saying that she was concerned for the safety of those ICE officers -- saying, "A sanctuary politicians is trying to outlaw officers wearing masks to protect themselves from being doxed and targeted by known and suspected terrorist sympathizers."

Now, Newsom had addressed this. He said that the DHS had failed to provide any kind of data to back up that assertion that there has been a rise in assaults of those federal officers.

But more importantly than pushback from DHS, we also heard from the acting U.S. attorney for the central district of California, Bill Essayli. He said that California has no jurisdiction for this law. They can't legislate how federal officers are behaving in the field and that he has already decided that agents will continue to protect their identities.

Now, this law actually says it will prohibit federal enforcement officers, including ICE, from hiding their identities. He bans neck gaiters, ski masks, and any other ways of concealing your identity and it applies to all federal officers, but it does not apply to state police. And there are some other exceptions, including medical masks for undercover agents -- this law will not apply -- as well as tactical gear.

Now, the governor's argument is that basically, anyone on American soil has the right to due process, even undocumented immigrants. He's saying that public trust has been eroded with the raids in Southern California and the rest of California, I should say, because of a violation of these rights.

This is what he said at a press conference on Saturday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM, (D) CALIFORNIA: You're going to go out and you're going to do enforcement. Provide an I.D. Tell us which agency you represent. Provide us basic information that all local law enforcement is required to provide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Now Sara, this legislation is supposed to go into effect on January 1, but Newsom said he's already expecting challenges in the court to this. But the question is how will this be enforced? Will we see a face-off between local and federal law enforcement or is this more of a symbolic move? Again, another move between Gavin Newsom and the Trump administration.

SIDNER: Yeah, and you can bet this will likely go into the courts as well.

Julia Vargas Jones, thank you so much for that report. I really appreciate it -- John.

BERMAN: All right. The tiger apparently turned on him. The deadly mauling of a handler with ties to the imprisoned so-called "Tiger King."

And then popstar Harry Styles runs a marathon. That is news in and of itself but even bigger news, how freaking fast he ran it.

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[07:48:45]

SIDNER: New this morning Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu announced a Palestinian state will not be established west of the Jordan River. In other word, there will be no Palestinian state. This as Britain, Canada, Australia, and Portugal are the latest countries to officially recognize a Palestine state. All of it is happening as world leaders come together in New York for the United Nations General Assembly this week.

Joining me is Jim Townsend, the former deputy assistant Secretary of Defense for European and NATO policy, and CNN political commentator Sabrina Singh. Thank you both for being here this morning.

Sabrina, let's start with this. Trump expected to deliver a speech after cutting massive amounts of foreign aid and being at odds with more than half of the member nations over the war in Gaza.

What will you be looking for in this speech?

SABRINA SINGH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER DEPUTY PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Well certainly, how Donald Trump is going to square the situation where the United States is in today. You know, the United States -- when he goes to address the U.N. tomorrow the United States is also finding itself quite isolated from its allies. Our closest allies, the U.K., France, Australia, are really charting their own course not only when it comes to what's happening within Gaza but also Ukraine. So how is the president going to bring allies back to the table?

[07:50:05]

And I think back when I was serving in the Biden administration a year ago, the United States was the true world leader on the international stage. And now not only are you seeing our allies veer further apart from us, but you're also seeing the U.S. get closer to countries like Russia.

And so I think the United -- that Donald Trump has a real task in from of him tomorrow of how he's going to draw allies back into the fold and follow the U.S. on our leadership.

SIDNER: Jim, I'd like to get your take on that because Netanyahu now bluntly states there will be no Palestinian state. The Trump administration officials have argued the recognition of a Palestinian state will only boost Hamas, but 142 of the 193 U.N. member states are now supporting a declaration which revives calls for a two-state solution.

So does it matter that the United States is becoming more isolated from the rest of the world on this particular issue?

JIM TOWNSEND, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR EUROPEAN AND NATO POLICY, ADJUNCT SENIOR FELLOW, TRANSATLANTIC SECURITY PROGRAM (via Webex by Cisco): Well, it does matter but I don't think that bothers Donald Trump. I think he is going to go forward with his view of standing by Netanyahu.

And, you know, Donald Trump is not a big multilateralist. He doesn't think that he needs to have allies coming along with him in the U.N. or even at NATO. He has his view. He's going to follow his view. And his view right now is a veer from long hold -- long holdings view of the United States about a two-state solution. We've now fallen off of that. So there is this focus on the allies in NATO and also in the U.N. taking forward ideas such as a two-state solution because the U.S. is not leaning in that direction.

SIDNER: Sabrina, the administration denied a visa to Palestine Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and members of the P.A. and PLO to travel to New York for the general assembly. It's also instituted a new policy that denies most types of visas to Palestinian Authority passport holders.

Do you -- do you think this indicates that Trump is simply going to allow Netanyahu to do whatever he wants without any pushback or conversations with Palestinian leaders?

SINGH: It's certainly another indication. And the fact that you don't have these Palestinian leaders not only not being able to come to the U.N. to address the U.N. General Assembly, but also to hear directly on their words. I mean, they are giving a virtual address. It just sends a very chilling message that the U.S. not only is not supportive of a two-state solution but is going to continue to allow the Netanyahu administration to just go on on their war within Gaza with no real leverage.

As you know, we continue to supply extremely high military assistance to Israel. Those are one of the levers of power that the United States still hold militarily but also diplomatically. And so to not have those leaders -- those Palestinian leaders here at the U.N. General Assembly this week, I think that's a real detriment and sends quite a chilling effect that the U.S. is going to continue to stand by and let this war continue to go on with no checks on it.

SIDNER: Jim, I want to get to the other overarching issue, which is another war in another part of the world -- the war in Ukraine. As world leaders are gathering, are European nations seriously

preparing for war with Russia? And the reason why I ask is because several nations, including Finland and Sweden, are telling their citizens to start stockpiling things like diapers and medication in case of war.

TOWNSEND: That's exactly right, and the Swedes and Fins have always had this as a part of their dealing with the civilians and with society about the potential of conflict in their area. They've always been on top of that, and they've really increased their attention to this, as you pointed out.

The rest of the allies, too, are not perhaps at that extreme but they are doing everything they can to rebuild their militaries as quickly as they can. Unfortunately, there's a lot of work ahead to do that and so we're not going to see a great increase for a number of years.

But as we've seen with Russia, there -- the increasing provocations are showing that the Russians have not backed off of an aggressive approach to European security. They think that they are in a good place right now to actually take action to being to undermine NATO and Europe as well. So this is a very tense time in Europe, and the Europeans are preparing.

SIDNER: Jim Townsend, Sabrina Singh, thank you both. I really appreciate your time -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: A tiger handler who is linked to the "Tiger King" Joe Exotic was killed by a big cat in Oklahoma on Saturday. It happened during a traveling show that he helps run with retired circus animals.

The Growler Pines Tiger Preserve said in a statement posted to Facebook this. That this is a tragedy. It is a painful reminder of both the beauty and unpredictability of the natural world, and that Ryan, who -- this is the man who was killed -- understood those risks not out of recklessness but out of love.

[07:55:05]

According to local reporting, Ryan Easley was attacked during an act with the tiger and was not breathing when deputies arrived.

There are some stunning images coming in after a natural gas pipeline burst into flames in Wyoming. You could see the flames more than 60 miles away. Fire crews said the pipeline ignited close to a train that was carrying hazardous material and they say it does not pose a threat to the public, very fortunately.

Harry Styles, a busy guy, swapped the stage for the streets of Berlin running in the city's famous marathon in two hours, 59 minutes, and 13 seconds. That is fast according to John Berman, our marathon expert and fast according to anyone reaching the sub 3-hour mark.

He also apparently maybe was trying to do it incognito style. He wore glasses and had a headband. He also used an alias for his race resignation -- registration. After the race he was seen posing with Paralympic champ Richard Whitehead.

A man dressed in a giant monkey suit on a skateboard leaps off a mountain the French Alps. If your reaction to this one, is it sounds like a regular Friday, I want to hang out with you. It was also part of the Icarus Cup which -- this is apparently the whole point. Paragliders ditching plain gear for -- this is funny -- wild costumes.

I mean, you've got -- you've clearly got a frog. I'm saying that's a tree frog. You've got octopuses. You've got Muppets. You've even got, apparently, a hospital bed soaring through the sky -- John.

BERMAN: It's a lifestyle choice. Who are we to judge?

BOLDUAN: One that I support full-heartedly.

BERMAN: Who are we -- so I've heard.

All right. This morning a new twist in the TikTok takeover saga. President Trump now says that tech billionaires Larry Ellison and Michael Dell, plus the Murdochs -- Lachlan and Rupert Murdoch -- could be part of the TikTok deal.

CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter is with us now. What exactly do we know about the deal and most importantly, the algorithm?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Let's start with the most important detail of all. All of this requires the approval of the Chinese government, and it is not at all clear that approval is actually about to happen, although the Chinese president did make some positive signals about this last week after his call with President Trump. It is quite clear that China views the TikTok situation in the U.S. as a very valuable point of leverage. So we can come back to that in a moment.

But what we do know over the weekend is that President Trump talked about some of the expected investors in this American consortium. This consortium would control the U.S. operations of TikTok, including that all-powerful algorithm, which would apparently be retrained using servers belonging to Oracle. That's the company that is controlled by Larry Ellison, the billionaire tech -- mogul who is a friend of President Trump's.

Notably, Trump said over the weekend in an interview on Fox News that Fox's owners may also be involved in the consortium. This was a new bit of news that Trump seems to enjoy revealing on Fox's cable network. He said that Rupert Murdoch and Lachlan Murdoch as in talks about having a stake in the venture. Now, I'm told by a person familiar with the matter this means that Fox Corporation as a company would actually be getting a small stake in TikTok.

So if you think about this, Larry Ellison, a friend of the president, the Murdochs -- these billionaires who are going to be in this American investor consortium -- they are, of course, Trump-friendly and Trump adjacent, and that raises new questions about how the algorithm, how the TikTok app could be used to influence a partisan political agenda. If there were lots of concerns 30 years ago about media moguls owning

conservative cable channels, like Fox News, well the new era -- the new digital age question is about who owns the algorithms. We witnessed Elon Musk hanging out with Trump last night in Arizona.

So this -- the detail about the Murdochs is interesting and we don't know yet if this is actually going to come together or not. And most importantly, we don't know if China is actually going to allow this deal to move forward. The expectation, according to analysts that have spoken to CNN, is that China is using TikTok as a form of leverage to extract concessions from the U.S. that it believes are much more consequential, John.

BERMAN: Yeah, really. I mean, there is support and there are actually several different levels here that are fascinating.

Number one, as you correctly point out, friends of the president with conservative leanings controlling somehow this social media app that directly influences tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of Americans.

But then still unanswered questions about whether and how this addresses the law passed by Congress and signed into law by President Biden that bans TikTok in the United States unless the algorithm is owned in the United States. And it's unclear whether the Chinese will still have their fingers in it even after this deal is struck. We just need to learn more of the details there.

Brian Stelter, great to see you this morning. Thank you very much.

A brand new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

BOLDUAN: Today, the Trump administration set to link the use of Tylenol to the risk of autism.