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FBI: Rounds Found Near Shooter's Body had Anti-ICE Writing; Vance: ICE Shooting Suspect was "Politically Motivated"; Zelenskyy: War-Torn Nations Get "Just Statements" from Weak U.N.; Trump Now Says Ukraine Can Win Back its Territory from Russia; Sources: Trump Admin Investigating FEMA Workers Who Warned that Disaster Agency was at Risk. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 24, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: ... moving in the right direction.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Elizabeth Wagmeister, thank you so much for the reporting.

A new hour of CNN NEW CENTRAL starts right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

SANCHEZ: We begin this hour with breaking news from Texas. Sources have now confirmed the identity of the gunman believed to be responsible for today's deadly shooting at an ICE facility in Dallas. Two detainees were killed, a third was wounded in the gunfire. The shooter now identified as 29-year-old Joshua Jahn, according to one of our sources, died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. DHS says the shooter fired indiscriminately from a nearby rooftop. Officials just shared new photos showing where bullets hit the ICE facility. No law enforcement officers were heard.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The FBI says it's investigating the shooting as a targeted attack. Director Kash Patel posting a photo, you see it here, of rounds found near the gunman appearing to show an anti-ICE inscription. Literally, it says anti-ICE there on one of the casings. CNN's Ed Lavandera live now on the scene in Dallas.

Ed, you spoke to people who were there as this shooting unfolded. What did they say?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, this is the front of the ICE facility that we've been able to get a little bit closer to. The shooting happened just on the back side. But we spoke with a family who showed up here at this facility just before 6 A.M. this morning. Authorities say the shooting started about 6.40 Central Time here this morning. And the family says they had come here.

The woman that I spoke with, her mother, had a previously scheduled appointment with immigration officials here at this building. And while they were waiting outside in the car, several family members started hearing the gunshots. They played for me a video that they captured over the course of almost 7 minutes while they could hear the gunshots.

Now, I'm not exactly sure if the video started after the shots erupted, but in about a minute and a half worth of the video, you could hear as many as seven gunshots being fired. And what stuck out to me, Brianna, is that this was not a rapid-fire session of gunfire, but it was slow and deliberate. You'd hear a shot, and then several seconds later you'd hear another shot. So, it was very -- it seemed, at least from the sounds of it, very methodical and not just a random spraying of automatic gunfire from what we -- I was able to hear on this video.

The family talked about how initially they thought or were incredibly fearful for their mother who was inside. They thought the shooting was actually taking place inside. They knew it was close, but they couldn't figure out exactly where the gunfire was coming from. They did say, you could hear on the video that I watched, them talking about how they could hear yelling and screaming coming from the shooting scene.

So, they knew whatever was unfolding was extremely chaotic and violent, and they said they left here traumatized and fearful for having experienced it and gone through all of this.

Authorities say that the gunman appears to have had a higher position, perhaps, from a building across the street from the back of this ICE- processing facility, and that was able to be the vantage point that this person was able to use to fire into the crowd.

KEILAR: Ed Lavandera, thank you so much for that reporting from Dallas.

SANCHEZ: Vice President J.D. Vance just weighed in on the shooting. Here's what he said a short time ago during a stop in North Carolina.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In Dallas, Texas, an ICE facility, an Immigration and Customs Enforcement facility, was opened fire upon by a violent left-wing extremist, a person who wrote anti-ICE messaging on their bullets, and there's some evidence that we have that's not yet public, but we know this person was politically motivated. They were politically motivated to go after law enforcement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: For more on all of this, let's bring in CNN Law Enforcement Analyst and former Secret Service agent Jonathan Wackrow.

Jonathan, great to see you as always. So, now that the suspect has been ID'd, what happens next in the investigation?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, listen, from an investigative standpoint, what law enforcement is going to do is they're most likely conducting a series of, you know, search warrants to, you know, gather additional items of evidentiary value. And those -- you know, those searches are both physical and digital.

So, going to the individual's residence, going to their vehicles, trying to get every type of physical activity possible to, again, start piecing together why this happened. And really important is how they're going to digitally piece together this individual's motive as well. And, you know, we have early indications that this may be tied to a particular ideology, but they need to prove that additionally through, you know, digital connections online to see where was this motivation stemming from, what made this individual get up this morning and go launch this horrific attack.

[15:05:07]

SANCHEZ: And as they gather that evidence, how do they make the determination that this shooting was specifically targeted? Obviously, they have that bullet casing that we just saw inscribed with anti-ICE. That's one piece of evidence in a broader picture, right?

WACKROW: Yes. No, I mean, and Boris, right now, what you have to do -- look at is actually the attack dynamics to really understand, you know, why law enforcement came out so quickly to say that this was an act of targeted violence. And really, it underscores -- the attack dynamics really underscore the premeditated and calculated nature of this attack. And really, you look at, like, where did this attacker launch from.

It wasn't from within the confines of the property. It was from across the street. They took an elevated position to launch this attack. And that attack, you know, coupled with the weapon, the rifle, was a precision attack. They had the intent to cause harm towards, you know, ICE officials.

Why do we know that? Because there was evidence that was left behind that pointed to that.

So, again, looking at how the attack was launched, the timing of the attack really indicated that the attacker had probably some, you know, knowledge of the activity that happened at this facility when individuals were brought in and out. Again, it shows a level of premeditation in planning on how to launch this attack.

So, from law enforcement's point of view, they were quickly able to assess that this was an act of targeted violence, not some random act.

SANCHEZ: And to the point that the shooter was apparently firing indiscriminately throughout the whole building, that's according to the ICE deputy director, what does that give you in terms of a piece of information that can confirm how the suspect was planning this?

WACKROW: Well, so, again, I think it's a little bit early to really focus in on, you know, some of the ballistic evidence because that hasn't been gathered yet. Again, what we're dealing with is this -- is a crime scene. And, you know, thinking about how was this attack launched, again, all of the elements of a, you know, premeditated attack planning, this all aligns with, you know, what we've called the pathway to violence, right? If someone has a grievance towards a, you know, a particular group, in

this case, it was, you know, a grievance towards ICE and towards this facility specifically, they travel through this journey where they, you know, have these violent ideations. They think about, you know, how do -- how does this grievance manifest itself? How are they going to resolve this grievance?

It's sort of a very narcissistic viewpoint, but they justify this with, you know, normalizing this targeted violence. And, you know, what -- at the end of the day, what this attack really highlights to me as a consequence of what I've said before on this show is really the consequence of what we're entering into, which is this assassination culture. It's this mixture of grievance coupled with this -- you know, coupled with a particular ideology and the concept of this moral absolutism.

When you couple that with inspiration from previous attacks and this glorification that we see online constantly, what you start doing is normalizing the killing. That's why we're seeing an increased rate of these types of attacks. And really, at the end of the day, you know, rhetoric does matter here, Boris. When we start focusing in on anti- government, anti-agency, in this case ICE and their activity, we start looking at how this rhetoric becomes mainstream. It really motivates others to really escalate the violence as well, and it really creates a very dangerous threat environment that we're living through right now.

SANCHEZ: Jonathan Wackrow, thank you so much for the perspective, even though it's painful to listen to.

WACKROW: Thanks, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Still to come, Ukraine's president takes the podium at the United Nations, urging other countries to unite against Russia after President Trump said Ukraine can win back territory it has lost.

Plus, the Trump administration investigating FEMA workers who signed a public letter warning that the White House's overhaul of the agency puts the country at risk.

KEILAR: And then later, accounts banned for posting false claims about COVID-19 are back on YouTube.

We'll have that and much more coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[15:14:01]

KEILAR: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy using his moment on the global stage at the U.N. General Assembly today to issue a warning and a plea to the world. Zelenskyy stressing the need for more military aid to keep fighting Russia while also warning that the weapons of war are evolving quickly and in ways that endanger all nations.

He also called out the U.N. for not providing effective solutions and being too weak to end wars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: Nations can speak about their pain from stages like this. But even during bloodshed, there isn't a signal international institution that can truly stop it. That's how weak these institutions have become. What can Sudan or Somalia or Palestine or any other people living through war really expect from the U.N. or the global system? For decades, just statements and statements.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:15:01]

KEILAR: Zelenskyy's address today follows some unexpected new support from President Trump, certainly some new rhetoric.

With us now is former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, Steven Piper. He's now with the Center for International Security and Cooperation at Stanford.

Ambassador, Zelenskyy called this post from Trump where he says Ukraine can win. A big shift. I mean, is it a big shift or is Zelenskyy being overly hopeful?

STEVEN PIFER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Well, certainly it's a shift in Mr. Trump's rhetoric. And I think what it reflects is growing frustration on the President's part that he's now, I think, given Putin and Russia maybe five deadlines to change course, and each time Putin has ignored him.

Now, the question, though, is that if he's made this rhetorical shift, will he follow it up with some real action like beginning to impose tighter sanctions on Russia or beyond just being prepared to sell weapons to Ukraine, actually asking Congress for money to fund weapons for Ukraine.

KEILAR: At the UNGA, we were talking with our Jim Sciutto, who is talking to European leaders there, and they're really receiving Trump's statement as he's putting the onus on Europe, the E.U. and NATO, to fund and support Ukraine. Now, we should note that Trump says we, the U.S., will continue to supply weapons to NATO for NATO to do what they want with them.

We also spoke with Republican Congressman Carlos Gimenez, and he told Boris last hour that the U.S. is the senior member in NATO. So, that shouldn't be seen as shifting the onus to Europe. The U.S. is very much involved and is going to continue to be. How do you see it?

PIFER: Well, Brianna, I think there has been a shift. I mean, bear in mind, in the previous administration, Congress provided $80 billion to provide weapons for Ukraine to defend itself, and I think that was a recognition by Congress that, you know, containing Russia actually is in the American interest here. What we have from President Trump is a readiness to sell weapons to NATO that they can then give to Ukraine, but there's been no approach to Congress asking for additional assistance. So, I think that has been a change.

And it did seem from some of the things that the President said yesterday that he really does want to move this burden to Europe and to Ukraine and sort of maybe minimize American participation. I think that would be a mistake, and it would be seen, given his engagement over the last seven months, as really a failure of his diplomacy to make any progress in ending this horrible war.

KEILAR: Trump also said yesterday that NATO countries should shoot down Russian aircraft that violate NATO airspace. That would include jets. We saw jets in Estonia's airspace. Do you think that's a real possibility?

PIFER: Well, I think NATO has to come up with a better approach to dealing with these Russian incursions. So, two weeks ago, the Russians launched 19 drones that violated Polish airspace. One or two might have been an accident. It's hard to believe that 19 were an accident. There was a message there. And then you had three Russian MiG-31 fighters flying through Estonian airspace, despite efforts by the Estonians and NATO aircraft to wave them away.

So, there has to be, I think, some action to get the Russians to respect NATO airspace. And now they simply seem not to care about the NATO response.

KEILAR: How do you think Russia is viewing this series of more bellicose or strong rhetoric from Trump?

PIFER: Well, I think the Russians have already pooed the idea. Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin spokesman, was very negative on it today. But it does perhaps introduce into the Kremlin, they may have to think about, you know, what if Trump's shift is not just rhetorical, but does he reach a point where he begins to do some real things, like imposing additional sanctions, like providing, you know, funds that would allow the Ukrainians to continue to arm themselves and continue the war that might begin to have a real impact.

You know, part of this now is you have, with Vladimir Putin, somebody who thinks he can still achieve his goals on the battlefield. And what the United States should be working with Europe and Ukraine to do is to persuade him that that's not going to be possible, and that if he continues to try, the costs to Russians are only going to go higher and higher. And that's the question. Will Trump follow his rhetoric shift with now some real actions that would make this war more costly for the Russians?

KEILAR: Yes. Does he put his money where his mouth is? We will see.

PIFER: Exactly.

KEILAR: Ambassador Steven Pifer, thank you so much for being with us.

And coming up, new CNN reporting on how the Trump administration is investigating FEMA workers who criticized Trump's efforts to dismantle the agency.

[15:20:05]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:24:42]

SANCHEZ: CNN has learned that the Trump administration has launched an investigation into FEMA workers who signed a public letter criticizing the administration's dismantling of the agency.

KEILAR: Yes. The letter, titled Katrina Declaration, accuses officials of undermining FEMA's authority, ignoring congressional mandates, and appointing unqualified leaders. CNN Correspondent Gabe Cohen is with us now with his reporting.

Gabe, tell us what you're learning here.

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So first, guys, we have to backtrack to August. That is when more than 180 current and former FEMA staffers signed that open letter that you referenced to Congress warning that this administration's dismantling of FEMA is putting communities in danger. Now, most of them signed that letter anonymously. Only a handful of current FEMA workers, at least a dozen, though we don't know the exact number, actually put their names on the document.

We know that one day after that letter was sent out, the administration quickly identified that group and put them all on paid administrative leave. They were still employed, but they were removed from their positions.

Let's fast-forward to yesterday, which is when that group started getting e-mails from investigators with the Office of Professional Responsibility that said that they are now facing an internal investigation into alleged misconduct. They were told they need to promptly schedule interviews with investigators, some of those interviews happening as early as today, and they were ordered to sign nondisclosure agreements saying that they are not going to share any information on this investigation or they could be fired.

All of this, guys, is raising serious concerns about how the Trump administration is handling whistleblowers. I spoke to an attorney for those workers who called this investigation absurd. He told me over the phone, quote, this is intimidation and patently violates the laws protecting whistleblowers. These workers filed the petition and were put on administrative leave immediately. That is retaliation.

Now, they are being investigated, and that is retaliation too.

Now, FEMA, for their part, did not offer much information. When I requested comment yesterday, they basically sent me the same statement that they had sent last month after this letter was initially published. I'll read you, though, what they said.

They said, "It's not surprising that some of the same bureaucrats who presided over decades of inefficiency are now objecting to reform. Change is always hard. It is especially for those invested in the status quo."

We are waiting now to see what comes of this investigation, guys. But to be clear, this is not the first investigation like it that we have seen recently. This summer, the administration also went after more than a hundred EPA workers for signing a very similar letter of dissent. Eventually, a handful of those workers were fired. We will see what happens to this group.

SANCHEZ: Gabe Cohen, thank you so much for that reporting.

As we track the shooting at an ICE facility in Dallas, we have a story you will not want to miss. What happens to families when the parents are deported by ICE, leaving their American children behind? Our Kyung Lah will dive into this next.

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