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Investigators Search for Motive in ICE Facility Shooting; John Sandweg is Interviewed about the ICE Shooting; Trump Demands Investigation at U.N.; Tom Dupree is Interviewed about a Comey Indictment; Trump Calls U.N. Visit Sabotage. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired September 25, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: "To conclude anything other than (ph) defendants use anti-Semitism as a smokescreen for a targeted, ideologically motivated assault on the country's premier universities." As you can imagine, the Trump administration says they're going to appeal. But that's the crux of what we're talking about here.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: That's a real slap down from the judge there.

JIMENEZ: Yes.

SIDNER: You know, saying that this is being used as a smokescreen.

Is there anything about this documentary that surprised you as you went into it?

JIMENEZ: You know, here -- here's one thing. So, it's -- it -- I think for people that watch this, you forget how much has happened on these college campuses since October 7th --

SIDNER: Yes.

JIMENEZ: Which is really when this documentary picks back up. Obviously, you had the results that happened -- of what happened overseas. Those shockwaves were felt immediately on college campuses. They sprung up in protest. We all remember the encampments that formed from there.

But one of the things that I thought was interesting was one of the students we spoke to said that they were very divided between those two, and those divisions haven't gone away. But since the attacks on the Trump administration, they've actually found some unlikely alliances between each other because they're saying, wait, hold on, this is our fight. Who's this person coming in and trying to dictate how we fight our battles? And so I thought that aspect was really interesting and a little unexpected.

SIDNER: That is fascinating. I love it.

JIMENEZ: Yes.

SIDNER: I'm sure it's going to be great, and we'll be watching.

JIMENEZ: Can't wait.

SIDNER: Omar Jimenez, thank you so much.

JIMENEZ: Of course.

SIDNER: "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper," "United States vs Harvard" airs Sunday, 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

And a new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL -- you're so lucky -- it starts right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New details emerging this morning about the fatal shooting at an immigration facility in Dallas.

A sinister escalator, a sinister teleprompter, a sinister audio setup. The president orders an investigation into what he calls triple sabotage at the United Nations. Triple sabotage, not to be confused with double secret probation.

And then overnight, the new jokes from Jimmy Kimmel after pulling huge ratings on his return from suspension.

I'm john Berman, with Sara Sidner and Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, ICE facilities across the country are on high alert after the deadly sniper attack in Dallas. One detainee was killed, two others were injured. And we still do not know their names, but we are told that one of the people shot was a Mexican national.

There is also some new detail coming out about the shooter, the gunman. Authorities say he took his own life at the scene. We're told he was 29 years old. This is an old mug shot of the gunman identified by CNN sources.

A motive still being investigated. FBI Director Kash Patel did put out this photo, though. You see it here. This is a -- he says -- he says that it shows a bullet casing left at the scene with the words "anti ICE" scrawled on it.

Again, they are still investigating why that man carried out this attack. President Trump, though, quick to label it the work of, quote/unquote, radical left terrorists.

CNN's Ed Lavandera live in Dallas for us.

What's the very latest that you're picking up, Ed?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kate.

Well, administration officials insist there is other evidence beyond that picture that Kash Patel, the FBI director, put out yesterday that suggests that this suspect was motivated by left wing ideology and a hatred for ICE officers here. But we have not seen that yet. And we're -- we'll continue to work on digging into the motivation for all of this.

But we can tell you that back out here at the scene of the shooting, investigators are back. FBI agents back. And there's a great deal of attention being focused on this building where it is believed that this shooter fired from because it is directly behind the ICE field office. And you can see there into the sun, that is the area in the back of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement office where the shooting took place, where that one detainee was killed and two others wounded yesterday.

DHS Secretary Kristi Noem said that there was -- the -- that the -- the shooter was firing all over the building. And we have seen some images from inside the building that show strikes from gunfire inside that ICE office as well.

And we also spoke with a witness yesterday, Kate, who had come here with her mother. Her mother had a previously scheduled meeting. A scheduled meeting with immigration officers. And she showed us video that captured sounds of the gunfire. Her family was barricaded in their car as they -- the gunfire was going off.

And what was so striking about that video is that it wasn't a rapid fire succession of gunshots, but it was slow and methodical. I heard about seven shots over the course of a minute and a half on the video that the family shared with us yesterday. So, it was striking.

And, you know, there's been a great deal of concern.

[09:05:01]

You see this one little car here at the base of that staircase. Investigators spent hours yesterday combing through that car as well, pulling out evidence. So, all of that work here continues here more than 24 hours after the shooting at this ICE field office in Dallas.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Ed, thank you so much for being there on the scene. Much more reporting to come.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, joining me now is John Sandweg. He's the former acting director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Thank you so much for being here.

JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Yes.

SIDNER: How will this attack change the way ICE operates? Or will it?

SANDWEG: Well, hopefully in the near term what this will do is trigger a reassessment of how ICE manages security. Sara, you have to understand, ICE agents are very vulnerable. ICE has never planned for these kind of attacks. This was a sniper attack in a building, you know, across the street. While ICE will do, primarily for this facility, the security planning was from the inside out, right? There's a detention facility located inside the facility. A lot of the planning is on how to make sure that you don't have escapes from individuals in detention.

But this is also an unusual facility that serves as a headquarters for the -- for the director -- the field office director there in Dallas. It also is where, as we just heard, immigrants who are, let's say, under supervised release need to come in and check in. So, it has to be open to the public. And while there's an initial perimeter right around the facility, I can tell you that ICE never anticipated you'd have sniper attacks.

But what this attack reveals and what all of this uptick in assaults on ICE officers reveal is really, you know, unfortunately, ICE has become a symbol of the Trump administration. As a result of that, it's a target for violent extremists. And we need to do a quick assessment of what does that mean in terms of officer safety and the safety of the detainees who are in ICE's care and custody?

SIDNER: Speaking of quick assessment, the FBI director, Kash Patel, posted this photo that we're going to show you here of recovered bullets within about four hours of the shooting. And on them you see the word "anti ICE" scrawled on one of those bullet casings.

Do you think this attack is part of an organized movement or a lone actor? And -- and on top of that, how unusual is it to sort of start putting out evidence this quickly? Because we saw Kash Patel do this before in the Charlie Kirk shooting, where he indicated that they had a suspect, and indeed they didn't have a suspect at the time. And it's a very quick and sort of unusual way to put things out to the public very, very quickly after something like this has happened.

SANDWEG: Yes, Sara, look, one thing I learned from managing or being involved in multiple crises during my time at DHS and ICE is that the initial reporting is often inaccurate. And you need to be really careful in relying on that initial reporting. And so, you're sitting in Washington. Lots of people trying to get you information. And, unfortunately, when things are moving quickly, sometimes that information is inaccurate. And it always is -- is best practice and it's to slow down and wait until you get the more -- you know, until the fog of the crisis kind of dissipates and you get that more accurate information.

But I think what's critical here is that this is what the investigation -- you know, there's all this rush to judgment here, but this is what the investigation needs to reveal. First and foremost, obviously, I think what the agents investigating the shooting were trying to figure out, is this a lone actor or is this part of a bigger conspiracy? Is there additional threats we need to worry about?

But moving past that, even long term, what I think we need to glean from this is, look, it's easy to say we need to tone down the rhetoric in this country, and clearly we do. But we also need to look at these cases and learn from them. What was driving -- what were the triggering events that triggered this individual, you know, to take such violent extremism and, you know, to -- to attack officers and detainees like this, right? What were those events and what can we glean from that to kind of protect, you know, to prevent future attempts like this? But that's why -- look, I think rushing to simple answers is never, you know, it -- sure, politically, I understand why that happens. But long term, I hope that we're doing a deep dive into this and better, you know, learning from this so we can prevent these in the future.

SIDNER: I am curious your thoughts on -- I mean we've now seen inscriptions on bullets in several high profile shootings. The Charlie Kirk murder, that I -- that I mentioned. The murder of the UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, where "denied", "defund" and "depose" was written on casings. And now you've got this ICE office shooting.

Do you think these politically motivated shootings are now really becoming a trend that will increase, similar to that sort of sick, commonplace occurrence of school shootings?

SANDWEG: Yes, I worry, Sara. Look, I think these things feed on themselves, right? So, you have copycat tactics here. And it starts with, you know, the murder in New York, and then that kind of, you know, then people studying that, looking at that, seeing the attention it got, and then start copycatting that. Absolutely, I think that those are obviously related to one another.

Look, we need to get to the bottom of this. And as I said at the outset, first of all, clearly lower the rhetoric. But beyond that, looking deeper, what are the commonalities that drove these individuals? I mean I'm struck by both, in the Charlie Kirk murder and in this ICE attack yesterday, some of the reporting is friends and family and neighbors of these individuals were surprised. They said, you know, this guy was calm. He was just really surprised about this, right? We need to look at, what was going on behind the scenes.

[09:10:01]

And, look, agents are going through right now, combing through his social media, combing through what was his online activity, what were, you know, what was he reading, what was he seeing? Let's use that information to better inform and how to -- how we can lower the risk of this kind of violence in the future. But, you know, look, unfortunately, this looks like it is becoming a trend. And, obviously, writing on these -- on these bullet casings is part of that trend.

SIDNER: John Sandweg, thank you so much for going through that with us. Really important.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, President Trump is demanding an investigation into what he is calling, quote, "triple sabotage" during his visit to the United Nations. He's claiming that a series of technical mishaps involving a stopped escalator, a teleprompter failure and audio issues were deliberate acts meant to undermine him.

At the White House now, CNN's Betsy Klein.

I think the question that some people have this morning, Betsy, is, you know, really?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, John, normally a malfunctioning teleprompter, you know this better than anyone, does not lead to a major diplomatic incident. But this might seem like a petty grievance by President Trump, but it really belies his broader concerns about the United Nations and its role as a governing body in solving some of the world's most intractable conflicts. We heard that as the president spoke on Tuesday, questioning what is the purpose of the United Nations. He said that often it's able to send a strongly worded letter, but there's not much follow up.

And this was clearly top of mind, these technical difficulties. More than 24 hours after that speech, the president laying out, in a very detailed post to social media, that reads in part, quote, "first the escalator. It's amazing that Melania and I didn't fall forward onto the sharp edges of those steel steps face first. This was absolutely sabotage," he says, pointing to a story in Monday's London times that U.N. workers had joked about turning off that escalator. He says, "then, as I stood before a television crowd of millions of people all over the world, and important leaders in the hall, my teleprompter didn't work. It was stone cold dark."

Then he "was told the sound was completely off in the auditorium where the speech was made, that world leaders, unless they used the interpreters earpieces, couldn't hear a thing." He says, "this wasn't coincidence. This was triple sabotage at the U.N."

The president going on to demand an investigation into this. He says the Secret Service is going to be involved. But the United Nations, for their part, says they are trying to take this extremely seriously, a signal to the Trump administration. We heard from a spokesperson from the U.N. secretary general that there will be a, quote, "thorough investigation."

John.

BERMAN: Well, somehow the president is rising above all this adversity today, and I do understand signing an executive order that might sort of pave the way for the TikTok deal.

: That's right, John, we are learning that President Trump is set to sign an executive order a little bit later this afternoon, according to a White House official, that is going to pave the way for this TikTok deal to go through. It's going to sell TikTok's U.S. assets to an American consortium of companies.

And this comes after the president spoke with China's President Xi Jinping on Friday, in part to finalize that deal. And you'll recall that back in January, the U.S. Congress passed a bill that would ban this popular social media app in the U.S. unless they were able to sell more than 80 percent of its assets to U.S. investors. This deal has done just that. It will be an ownership group made out of -- up of a majority of American companies. Its algorithm will be overseen in part by Oracle, as well as all safety and privacy issues.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Betsy Klein for us at the White House.

Betsy, great to hear from you this morning.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: A new focus on the former FBI director. The new reporting that the Justice Department is moving closer to charging James Comey.

Plus, the Israeli prime minister headed to the United States as we're getting reports that president Trump has sent Arab leaders a new Gaza peace plan.

And recovery efforts are underway after the most powerful storm on the planet this year swept through Taiwan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:11]

BOLDUAN: There could be legal trouble ahead for former FBI Director James Comey. Sources are telling CNN that federal prosecutors are preparing to ask a grand jury to indict him on perjury charges, accusing him of lying to Congress back in 2020 about the FBI's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election.

Why now? It may have something to do with the clock. The five-year statute of limitations to charge him runs out next Tuesday. Comey says he's always told the truth under oath.

What's raising eyebrows even more now is who now is in charge of the case. Lindsey Halligan, one of President Trump's former personal attorneys who was just tapped to be the acting U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, after the president fired the previous U.S. attorney on the case.

Joining me right now is former deputy assistant attorney general Tom Dupree to make some sense of all of this.

What do you think of this potential likely move?

TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, look, Lindsey Halligan was installed in this position with a singular directive, to obtain an indictment of James Comey. I think what we have been hearing is that the line prosecutors, the career prosecutors in the office, and as well the prior appointed U.S. by Trump, have all basically said there's not a case here, that the evidence doesn't support it. The president, nonetheless, wants to move ahead. That's why he installed Lindsey Halligan in this job. And her task, literally in the next, you know, 72 hours or so, is, if she thinks it's appropriate, to bring a case before the grand jury and see if she can get an indictment of Jim Comey.

BOLDUAN: You touched on something that I think just like even for a layperson is a real question, as she's just now coming in and stepping in. I mean, how fast can someone get up to speed up on a case, any case, one this high profile, especially when this is not a job you've ever held before?

[09:20:05]

DUPREE: Well, that's the thing. Look, this would be a challenge for any prosecutor. But in her case, she doesn't come to the job with really a vast amount, or any amount, of prosecutorial experience in her background. So, it makes it all that much tougher.

Of course, it may be the case that she would not do kind of a thorough review of the evidence that prosecutors typically would do in this situation, because she understands that the president very much wants to see an indictment of Jim Comey. And the question is whether or not she is willing to sign the papers to seek those charges. People in her office apparently have been telling her there's simply no case here, and the decision is ultimately going to be hers whether or not to move ahead on this.

BOLDUAN: On what this kind of centers around, just perjury in general. I mean, are perjury charges that we could be looking at here, are they harder or easier to prove than, I don't know, your average charge, Tom?

DUPREE: Well, prosecutors will tell you, Kate, that perjury charges can be surprisingly complex to bring because it's not simply showing that someone made a statement under oath that turned out to be untrue. You need to show that this wasn't just an inadvertent mistake, it wasn't just a failure to recall, or it wasn't just a case of seeing events differently from someone else who testified. You really have to show that the defendant went out of his or her way to intentionally lie, intentionally mislead, and made what was a knowingly false statement of fact. That's a lot harder than it might sound. And particularly if you're in a situation, which it sounds like this case would be, of trying to prove perjury by showing a conflict in testimony between what Comey said and what other witnesses said, it makes for a pretty hard case. And, ultimately, you're going to have to be able to persuade a jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, that this was an intentional lie, not just an inadvertent misstatement.

BOLDUAN: It's great to see you. Thanks for coming in.

John.

BERMAN: All right, overnight, a new threat from the Trump administration that could lead to permanent layoffs for thousands of workers.

Sean Combs back in court today for the first time since his high profile trial. His defense making a move to get him out of jail almost immediately.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:26:36]

BERMAN: Not one, not two, but three very sinister events. This morning, President Trump is demanding an investigation of what he calls "triple sabotage" at the United Nations. The sinister events he is referencing are an escalator that briefly stopped working, a faulty teleprompter -- man, do I know that type of evil -- and some audio issues during his speech. The president's press secretary told Fox News, the technical mishaps, quote, "do not look like a coincidence."

Here now, Democratic strategist Julie Roginsky and CNN's senior political commentator and republican strategist David Urban.

My question is this. There's a war in Ukraine. There are hostages in Gaza. I mean, how many resources should be devoted to teleprompter gate?

JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: All of them. All of them, because there's nothing else in Donald Trump's orbit other than the grievance towards Donald Trump. I mean that's the fundamental problem with this president is that he actually thinks it's all about him. I don't -- you know, look, he might be right that this is a -- these are kind of coincidental -- a little too coincidental. But so what? So what? You go to Washington. The escalator doesn't work. You walk up a few flights of stairs. It's not a big deal. You go and the teleprompter fails, we've all been there, and, by the way, is the president who made fun of Barack Obama, as you recall, for using a prompter and said he'd never use a prompter. I'm old enough to remember that.

And so, look, as you point out, there are serious issues going on that require the president's attention. And yet it's constantly about him and the grievance towards him and the grievance towards his base. And the truth of the matter is, you know, the rest of us don't have time for that. There are real issues going on in the world. Let's focus on those and not about what Donald Trump thinks is aggrievement towards him.

BERMAN: David, one defense I have not heard yet this morning, maybe I will find it if I look more, is sometimes you get allies of the president saying, oh, he's just trolling the media, he's just trolling this person. I don't think that they're saying that this time. This seems somewhat serious. So, how high does this rank on the level of concerns for you this morning, David? How much sleep did you lose?

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: John, not a lot. I will say this, however, I do believe that it was, as Julie points out, just a little too coincidental that the escalator is working and then as soon as Melania -- the first lady puts a foot on the escalator, it automatically stops. I mean, it is a -- there are no ghosts in the machine that do -- you know, that shut down things that well. And then go to the teleprompter.

Look, I think someone was trying to get in his head. Screw with the guy while they are at the United Nations General Assembly. And I think, look, is it the biggest thing in the world? No. But should someone at the U.N. probably lose their job from trying to sabotage the president of the United States? I think so. And -- and whether or not it's appropriate for the president of the United States to be, you know, kind of weighing in on this and grinding down on it or somebody else on his staff, I think, look, I think someone should be fired there for doing that to the president. If they did it to any other head of state, they'd be called to task for it. And I think similarly they should be called to task for this.

BERMAN: On the subject of the president weighing in on things, let's talk, David, about -- about James Comey, former FBI director, who, by all accounts, the U.S. attorney in Virginia may try to indict as soon as today. What are your feelings about this, not so much on the merits of it. We had a legal argument about that just a moment ago. But given that President Trump himself, just days ago, basically told the attorney general he wanted to see this happen.

[09:30:03]

URBAN: Yes, look, John, you're not going to get -- Jim Comey's not going to get sympathy from me. I think he's a really bad guy. You saw what he said