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Zelenskyy Says Trump Backs Ukraine; Americans on Free Speech. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired September 25, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:03]

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look, John, you're not going to get -- Jim Comey's not going to get any sympathy from me. I think he's a really bad guy. You saw what he said on numerous occasions about General Flynn, how he basically entrapped General Flynn. Mike Flynn is a good man. He was trying to cooperate. He was, you know, thought he was doing the right thing. And -- and as Julia knows, when FBI agents come in to talk to you initially, they don't bring a tape recorder. They bring their memories. And so when they show up the first time to talk to you, they -- they go back and write something down. The second time they talk to you, they write something down, their recollection of what occurred, and then, poof, alah (ph), you're now -- you've now perjured yourself. And so, you know, Jim Comey laughed about it. He bragged about how he was able to send these FBI agents in and kind of screw with Mike Flynn.

You heard him -- listen, I sat in the CNN studios for hours and watched Jim Comey testify before Congress and lie before Congress. I watched him say that, you know, he leaked classified information to "The New York Times" so that there would be -- to make sure there was an investigation. He's a bad guy. I think karma is -- well, you know what they say about karma, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I will say, David, you've just made a compelling case for why you were aggrieved. And I'm not putting connotations around that word with -- with James Comey. But you're not the president of the United States. And he has done the same here, talking about his grievance with the former FBI director. And he put out that statement to the attorney general, Julie. He said, "I've reviewed more than 30 statements and posts saying that essentially same old story as last time, all talk, no action. Nothing is being done. What about Comey and others? They're all guilty as hell, but nothing being done."

So, the fact of the president weighing in before perhaps the prosecution --

JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, David just laid out exactly why this is wrong. I mean karma is not the reason you indict somebody. You indict somebody because they potentially broke the law.

And the reality is that, you know, you can hate Jim Comey, you can think Mike Flynn is the greatest guy in the world. I happen to think at best he's a Russian useful idiot. At worst, he's something more. But the reality is that that's not why you indict somebody. You indict somebody for breaking a crime. And I will say this, I happen to think Donald Trump's a really bad guy. I happen to think a lot of people in his movement are really bad people. Does that mean that I think they should be indicted? Only if the law shows that they should be. But right now, that's not what we're hearing from Republicans. We're hearing from Republicans that, oh, karma is a you know what. Well, karma should not be in charge of the Justice Department. Prosecutors should be in charge of the Justice Department. People --

URBAN: You know, John, I would -- I would ask Julie this, do you not think that Jim Comey perjured himself before Congress?

ROGINSKY: I don't know. I have no idea whether Jim Comey perjured himself. You know who else doesn't know? Donald Trump. Donald Trump --

URBAN: Oh, come on, Julie. He wasn't --

ROGINSKY: Listen, Donald --

(CROSS TALK)

David.

URBAN: Julie, watch the tape, like everybody else.

ROGINSKY: David. David, I'm not a fan of Jim Comey. I think what he did to Hillary Clinton in 2016 is the reason that he finds himself in this mess today. So, you're not going to get a defense of Jim Comey, the man, from me. What you're going to get is the fact that the president of the United States does not get to tell the Justice Department who they should indict. And when prosecutors prior to the current ones say there's no case to be made here, and all of a sudden he finds another useful idiot who's going to do his will rather than what the law requires, I have problems with that. It could be you next, David. The next time there's a Democratic president, it could be you. You don't want to be in that situation.

URBAN: Julie, I -- Julie, as you know --

BERMAN: Quickly, David.

URBAN: Julie, I got hunted my -- myself and my colleagues in the first administration got hunted by Jim Comey wrongfully. And, Julie, you know, the Justice Department doesn't indict anybody, the grand jury indicts people.

BERMAN: OK.

URBAN: It's a grand jury that's being seated right now and they --

ROGINSKY: Come on. You can -- a grand jury can indict a ham sandwich. You know that.

BERMAN: I'm going to say, I think actually this has been a terrific conversation, and I want to thank you both for being part -- no, really, because it's actually been a very interesting back and forth that I think illuminates the issue very well. And I do appreciate it.

I just want to end -- we do know that the former now U.S. attorney did not think this was a provable case.

ROGINSKY: Right.

BERMAN: And that there are reports that the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, feels similarly. But that is a very specific claim right there.

Julie Roginsky, David Urban, really, I do appreciate the discussion this morning. Thank you very much.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, ahead, a direct threat and warning from President Zelenskyy to Russia today, end the war or prepare to find bomb shelters.

And check your freezers for radioactive shrimp yet again. Something I never have to say once, never mind twice. More bags have now been recalled.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:38:49]

BOLDUAN: New this morning, a one on one with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. The "Axios Show" sitting down with Ukraine's president, revealing in that sit-down that President Trump gave the green light to hit energy infrastructure and weapons factories in Russia. Zelenskyy also had strong words and a bit of a warning for Kremlin officials if Russian President Putin does not immediately end his war in Ukraine.

Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARAK RAVID, GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, "AXIOS": What would you tell somebody who works at the Kremlin today? Would you tell them to make sure he knows where the nearest bomb shelter is?

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: First of all, they have to know where their bomb shelters are. They need it. If they will not stop the war, they will need it in any case.

Each day we -- we will answer. If they will attack us, we will answer them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Here with me now is the reporter you saw right there who got this exclusive interview, "Axios" global affairs correspondent Barak Ravid, also a CNN political and global affairs analyst.

It's really good to see you in person.

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Good morning.

BOLDUAN: Thanks for being here.

[09:40:00]

Talk to me about what your big takeaway was in sitting down and speaking face to face with Zelenskyy. Kind of where he sees the war being and where President Trump now stands with U.S. policy towards Ukraine.

RAVID: So, I think my biggest takeaway, before talking about, you know, the policy headlines that he made --

BOLDUAN: Yes.

RAVID: He was very happy with this week in New York. He was very happy with his meeting with Donald Trump. He was obviously very happy with Donald Trump's post on Truth Social --

BOLDUAN: Yes.

RAVID: Even though he admits he was surprised. He didn't know that it was coming.

BOLDUAN: He didn't know it was coming?

RAVID: No, he didn't know. But -- but what he did say is that, in his meeting with President Trump, President Trump was more forward leaning on so many issues that until today he was not.

For example, President Trump told him, if they attack your energy facilities, you should attack their energy facilities. Zelenskyy asked -- told me that he asked President Trump for a weapons system, very specific weapon system, long range weapon system, that the U.S. hasn't provided to Ukraine until now. He refused to mention the name of that weapon system, but he said that President Trump told him, I'm going to work on it. So, I think his expectation or hope is that the U.S. will provide this weapon system that will allow Ukraine to hit much more, much deeper and much more accurately inside Russian territory.

BOLDUAN: And that statement, I think, is pretty critical. The fact that the -- a conversation was had and got to the place of, and I'm going to provide you something. Because I'll say, though many are applauding -- who want to see more support for Ukraine, many are applauding that shift, that 180, as it's been described, from that post from President Trump seeming to reject the previous calls of land swaps being inevitable. But some are saying that there's actually -- they see a deeper meaning and less meaning, if you will, in what they've heard from President Trump. Signs that Trump is trying to kind of give up involvement in trying to bring peace.

Let me play what Congressman Greg Meeks actually said to me about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D-NY): Look, it's, to me, a lot of empty words. The key thing, it seemed to me, he's throwing his hands up. He's saying that Ukraine can win with our European allies. He's not saying that the United States is going to stand with Ukraine. He's not saying that he's going to come to Congress and ask Congress for the appropriate appropriations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: David Sanger of "The New York Times" got some really deep source reporting on this as well this morning, saying, "scratch the surface, and a deeper desire seemed buried in Mr. Trump's reversal, that Trump appears to want to wash his hands of the Ukraine conflict."

But I don't -- did you get a sense at all that Zelenskyy is concerned about the kind of whiplash nature of what Trump policy has been?

RAVID: No, no. So, I asked him about it. I asked him, maybe this post is just Trump being Trump.

BOLDUAN: Yes, just today, right?

RAVID: Yes. And, you know, tomorrow he'll write something else. The next day he'll write something else. And Zelenskyy was honest in saying, I don't know. We will have to see what he actually does.

But his impression from his meeting with Donald Trump, and I know this not only because he said it in the interview, because I heard he told his two members of Congress over the last 48 hours, is that he felt that there's been a real shift, that it's not only words, and that Donald Trump was more open than ever to provide weapons systems, long range weapon systems that, until today, he refused to provide to Ukraine.

BOLDUAN: That is very, very interesting (INAUDIBLE).

RAVID: Yes, we'll have to see if it happens.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

Another -- I do want to see what happens. And we will get a new wrinkle in this come tomorrow.

I want to ask you about your reporting on Israel and Gaza, because Netanyahu is on his way to New York, scheduled to speak before the General Assembly. That's tomorrow. And then he's going to be heading to the White House after that.

Barak, what are you hearing about this 21 point peace plan that Steve Witkoff presented to Arab leaders this week?

RAVID: So, I think what is interesting in this plan is that it's Donald Trump's plan. It's not Bibi Netanyahu's plan. Because I have to say that even me, I was kind of thinking, maybe it's just the Bibi plan. This guy is (INAUDIBLE). BOLDUAN: Yes, put -- put like a different header put on the same plan.

RAVID: Yes, but it is not.

BOLDUAN: OK.

RAVID: It is not. This is a plan that has been drafted over the last two weeks, after many months of pre-work.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

RAVID: It was drafted by Witkoff, by Jared Kushner, with inputs from Arab countries, with inputs for -- from former British Prime Minister Tony Blair. The Israelis, before Trump presented it to the Arabs, the Israelis already knew the broad contours of this plan.

BOLDUAN: OK.

RAVID: But it does not mean that it's a Bibi plan. It's a Donald Trump plan. And Bibi Netanyahu, when he arrives at the White House on Monday, he will definitely try and improve the language and change some of the things in the plan, add things that he wants in the plan that are not there now, take out some stuff.

[09:45:11]

Obviously, now it's a negotiation. But there's something I think more profound here. And you have to look how -- Netanyahu will land in New York in like two hours.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

RAVID: But you have to look at the route his plane took to get here.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it's wild.

RAVID: Yes.

BOLDUAN: How do you -- I mean do you -- describe it, please.

RAVID: Yes. He did not -- he did not fly over any European country. He went only above the Mediterranean Sea. And the reason for it is that either countries don't want to -- countries in Europe don't want to allow his plane to go through their airspace. Other countries, he's concerned that if something happens to the plane, he needs to land, he will be arrested because of the International Criminal Court arrest warrants. In other countries, they're total disconnect. So, they don't even want to ask permission to go through the airspace.

That tells you a lot. Netanyahu has to, I think, he understands more and more how isolated Israel is under his leadership and how isolated he is personally. I don't think that there's ever been a case of an Israeli prime minister in Israel's history who is that isolated, who is seen as such a pariah coming to the United States, to the U.N. General Assembly.

I'm covering this thing for 20 years.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

RAVID: I never thought I would see this.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I mean, the visit to the White House on Monday is going to be very different. His fourth visit, if you will, but still very different and singular in the environment that he's looking at now.

It's really good to see you.

RAVID: Thank you so much.

BOLDUAN: Thank you always for bringing your reporting.

RAVID: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

John.

BERMAN: All right, first big ratings, now new jokes. What Jimmy Kimmel did overnight with his huge, new platform.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:51:23]

SIDNER: Taiwan cleaning up now after an enormous storm killed at least 14 people there. Cars tossed aside as Typhoon Ragasa sent floodwaters ripping through this particular town on Tuesday. And you see some of the damage there. Thirty-one people are still missing after a natural dam collapsed, unleashing 68 million tons of water. Two million people were forced to evacuate before the storm reached southern China. It toppled trees there, smashed shop windows in China's tech hub of Shenzhen, the areas among the most densely populated coastlines in all of the world.

And in Hong Kong, hurricane force winds ripping through the city, injuring at least 90 people. The fierce winds whipped up waves that swamped waterfront areas, damaging buildings and restaurants there.

At its peak, the typhoon was the most powerful storm in the world yet this year,

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, for the first time since his high- profile trial, Sean Combs due back in New York courtroom. Pre- sentencing motions set to get underway very shortly. A jury convicted Combs earlier this year on two prostitution related charges, with sentencing set for next week. Ahead of that, attorneys for Combs argued that he should receive a sentence of no more than 14 months.

A new expansion of a recall for potentially radioactive shrimp. Now it includes frozen shrimp sold at Kroger stores in 31 states. The FDA says tens of thousands of bags may have been contaminated with cesium 137. With repeated low dose exposure, cesium can lead to an elevated risk of cancer. The FDA has a full list of the affected products on its website.

A new voice for the subway system here in New York City, Cardi B.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDI B.: These trains don't move without you. So, make sure you pay that fare and keep it real. Stop subway surfing. Ride safe, keep it cute (ph) and keep it moving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The Bronx native partnered with the MTA after selling her new album on its subway cars. No word yet on when the messages will begin airing across the system, but the audio is generally so sketchy on the subways, chances are you won't be able to make it out anyway.

You can do that, maybe, but it would --

SIDNER: Can you do it?

BERMAN: It would sound like --

SIDNER: Try it with me.

BERMAN: That's what it would sound like.

SIDNER: All right. Thank you, John.

This morning the numbers are in and "Jimmy Kimmel Live" shattered records Tuesday with 6.3 million viewers tuning in for the return to late night. That's three times, by the way, the show's typical numbers.

Chief data correspondent Harry Enten has looked into how Americans are feeling about free speech these days. Of course, Kimmel, his whole monologue, his whole show was about free speech. He said, look, it's not about my show, it's about the ability to speak your mind and not be punished for it. What are you seeing in the numbers?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes, I would say that Americans are freaked out, Sara.

SIDNER: Wow.

ENTEN: What are we talking about here? Well, let's take a look. Optimistic that the U.S. will protect free speech. Back in January it was 57 percent who said yes, 38 percent were pessimistic saying, no. Look where we are in September, though. The percentage that said they were optimistic has plummeted, plummeted, now just 43 percent of Americans are optimistic that the U.S. will protect free speech. The majority, 53 percent, say, no. They are, in fact, pessimistic. Pessimistic that America would protect free speech. And, of course, free speech, it's right there in the bill of rights. And yet Americans are very much fearful that the U.S. will not be able to protect it going forward.

SIDNER: This is actually -- it's really disturbing.

ENTEN: Yes.

SIDNER: And then consider that everybody has the chance to sort of broadcast their ideas with the new technologies --

ENTEN: Yes.

SIDNER: With the social media. So, it's fascinating there.

What is driving this decline, do you think from looking at it?

ENTEN: Yes, what is driving this decline. You might think, oh, it's Democrats who are freaked out, right?

[09:55:03]

Oh my goodness, you know, Trump, you know, infringing on the rights of free speech and Democrats are sort of wetting the bed. No, it's actually independents. It's independents where the movement has been. Optimistic that the U.S. will protect free speech among independents, it was 59 percent in January. Look at this decline, down to 36 percent now. Just 36 percent of independents are optimistic that the U.S. will protect free speech. The majority of Democrats match that as well. They are pessimistic. Republicans have seen a little bit of a decline. But with Trump in the White House, I don't think it's too surprising that the majority of Republicans are still optimistic that the U.S. would protect free speech. But independents, really driving this. They are no longer optimistic.

SIDNER: That's saying something. Just quickly, here, are Americans even comfortable talking amongst themselves, to their family, to their friends, about these polarizing issues?

ENTEN: Yes, I would just say this. I mean, look at this, political chats with those you know, talk about your differences. Only 49 percent, only 49 percent of Americans feel comfortable talking about differences with those that they know, 47 percent, 47 percent avoid talking about politics with those that they know. But, guys, I feel comfortable talking about pretty much anything with you.

BERMAN: Yes, that may be -- may be true, but we have to --

SIDNER: We know.

BOLDUAN: Very evident.

BERMAN: But we have to shut you up right now because -- so don't talk about anything else.

SIDNER: The show is over. Zip it.

BOLDUAN: We're going -- I don't know what he's doing. We're going. Thanks for joining us. This is -- SIDNER: THE SITUATION ROOM, up next. We're talking about it.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Yes. All of the above.

SIDNER: We're done.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)