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Defense Secretary Summons Hundreds of Senior Military Officers; Trump Administration Threatens Mass Firings; ICE Shooting Investigation; Will Trump Administration Indict James Comey?. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired September 25, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: An ominous warning. After the shooting at an ICE facility in Texas, President Donald Trump blaming left-wing extremists, saying things will get worse.

Meantime, we're tracking an update on the investigation in Dallas. A press conference is starting soon and we're going to bring it to you live.

Plus, we're told that at any moment, former FBI Director James Comey could be indicted. But senior prosecutors at the Department of Justice are divided. Sources say even Attorney General Pam Bondi has concerns about the case.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And a new review of a common abortion pill is raising concerns that access to the medication could soon be limited. Why Secretary RFK Jr. is looking into mifepristone, despite studies showing the drug's safety.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: Once again, President Donald Trump is pointing the finger at his political opponents as the reason for yesterday's deadly attack on an ICE facility in Dallas. The FBI says the shooter wrote an anti-ICE message on rounds discovered on the rooftop where he fired indiscriminately at a van carrying detainees, killing one of them and seriously wounding two others.

Speaking a short time ago during a meeting with Turkish President Recep Erdogan at the White House, Trump blamed extremists on the left and issued this warning. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The radical left is causing this problem, not the right, the radical left. And it's going to get worse. And, ultimately, it's going to go back on them. I mean, bad things happen when they play these games.

And I give you a little clue. The right is a lot tougher than the left, but the right's not doing this. They're not doing it. And they better not get them energized, because it won't be good for the left. And I don't want to see that happen either.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: CNN's Alayna Treene is live for us at the White House.

So, Alayna, what more is the president saying about all of this?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, well, as you heard there, Boris continuing to point the finger at what he is calling radical left Democrats, the radical left, as you heard in those remarks, trying to argue that really all of the violence, political violence we're seeing happen in recent weeks has been caused by people on the far left.

Now, of course, we know that's not exactly true. We have seen violence on the right as well. But we are also, Boris, getting some more information about the shooting at that ICE facility in Dallas. We actually heard from the FBI director, Kash Patel, this morning, who's providing some more details.

Essentially, they say that the evidence that the FBI has gathered on Wednesday's fatal shooting indicates that the shooter conducted large amounts of research on ICE, ballistics and the shooting of Charlie Kirk, suggesting what they say is -- quote -- "a high degree of pre- attack planning."

Now, in that post as well, Boris, they laid out four different things and different types of evidence that they argue supports this claim. Of course, as you mentioned, we are still waiting to hear more in a press conference and shortly really.

But some of the evidence, according to Patel, that he laid out, he said that the perp had downloaded -- quote -- a document titled "Dallas County Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Management" containing a list of DHS facilities. They also say that he conducted multiple searches of ballistics and the Charlie Kirk shot video between September 23 and September 24.

They also argued that he used an app to track the movements of ICE agents and that one of the handwritten notes that the FBI has uncovered thus far says that the suspect wrote -- quote -- "Hopefully, this will give ICE agents real terror to think, is there a sniper with A.P. rounds on that roof?"

Now, despite all of this, Boris, we do know that they are still trying to figure out a direct motive for all of this. We also heard from the secretary of homeland security this morning, Kristi Noem, who essentially said that: "We do not know the motive yet, but we know that our ICE law enforcement is facing unprecedented violence against them and that it must stop."

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And so we're still trying to get more answers here, but clearly what we are seeing from the White House, from the president, from many of his top officials, they very much are trying to make the case here that this is from someone who they argue was on the far left.

And as we know, the president has been taking steps to try and crack down on what he says are far left organizations, though he hasn't really gone into specifics of what further steps could be, like apart from that executive order where he tried to announce and designate Antifa as a terrorist organization.

SANCHEZ: Yes, and we are expecting to hear from officials in Dallas in the next hour, so stay tuned for that.

Alayna, Trump also spoke about the case, potential case involving his former FBI Director James Comey. What did he say?

TREENE: Yes, look, I mean, this is something we know from our reporting from our great colleagues here at CNN that really the president has been pushing Bondi to look into this case around Comey, or against Comey, I should argue, that essentially says that he had made false statements back during the Russia investigation and his investigation, the FBI investigation, back during the president's first term.

The president, though, however, tried to distance himself from it, saying he doesn't know much about it when speaking in the Oval Office earlier today. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They're going to make a determination. I'm not making that determination. I think I'd be allowed to get involved if I want, but I don't really choose to do so. I can only say that Comey's a bad person. He's a sick person. I think he's a sick guy, actually. He did terrible things at the FBI, and -- but I don't know. I have no idea what's going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: So, again, you hear him there, Boris, saying that he doesn't know, he doesn't know what's going to happen, but, again, our reporting is that the president has been the one trying to push this idea of looking into, and really trying to take cases against some of his political opponents.

Now, some new CNN reporting as well is that Bondi and some others in the Department of Justice actually have some reservations and concerns about bringing this case against Comey. But, despite all of that, we could see this be brought as early as today, so stay tuned for that.

SANCHEZ: Alayna Treene live for us at the White House.

Thank you so much Alayna -- Brianna. KEILAR: All right, you hear Alayna reporting there that there are

reservations among top officials about this case against Jim Comey, but we're waiting to see if these perjury charges could come as soon as today.

Federal prosecutors are examining whether Comey lied to Congress back in 2020. That is what is at the heart of this, when he testified about the FBI's investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election. But they will have to file charges by Tuesday, when the statute of limitations expires.

Comey has maintained that he was truthful. He's maintained that under oath. And this week, President Trump installed Lindsey Halligan, one of his former personal lawyers, as acting U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. She's handling the case after Trump fired the previous U.S. attorney.

CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams is here with us.

We should mention, you're a former federal prosecutor. Perjury is not exactly an easy thing to prove.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It can sometimes not be easy to prove.

It's not just that a person even said an untrue statement. It's that, number one, they knowingly lied or knowingly made a falsehood, or were so reckless in seeking out the truth that it defies logic that they couldn't have known. Now, merely being unsure, merely conflicting with another witness isn't going to cut it.

Now, maybe someone could be charged with a crime, but reaching the high bar for the reasonable doubt standard in court can be incredibly difficult on perjury.

KEILAR: This is a huge case, assuming this moves forward. Are you familiar with Lindsey Halligan's credentials in this kind of thing?

WILLIAMS: Well, she's never prosecuted a case. And so that's not to say that a smart lawyer can't get the book and study and learn how to do it, but think about doctors if you fell down and popped your shoulder out. Yes, you could read the book and learn how to do it, but you want an orthopedist to be doing it.

Simply, when you're talking about a high-profile, perhaps complex prosecution, you're going to want people with serious prosecution experience being the ones running it.

KEILAR: It's a deep pool to learn to swim in, for sure.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KEILAR: OK, so how much might Trump's public statements undermine the government's case here?

WILLIAMS: One hundred percent. Now, let's pretend, or just assume, that they do have a strong case

against Jim Comey. They might. We don't know what evidence they have. All of the president's prior statements about him, including notably the very recent social media post saying -- naming Comey by name, absolutely sets the groundwork for a malicious prosecution claim from the defense.

They could go to court and say that I am only being prosecuted because a political leader has specifically identified me by name. Those usually don't win. This is the rare instance in which you might, because you have a track record from the president specifically laying out almost like a retaliation going beyond the four corners of whatever acts Jim Comey might have committed.

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KEILAR: It really does raise questions about whether this is designed to just create a big headache and an expense for Jim Comey.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.

KEILAR: Looking at this, does this case meet the standard for why DOJ or a prosecutor might normally bring a case?

WILLIAMS: Well, it's hard to say because we don't know what they have.

Now, again, even if they have information to suggest that he committed a crime, the mere fact that the president is on record saying, my opponents went after me, therefore, we should go after them, and, by the way, we should go after this particular defendant, you have in writing the basis for saying that this defendant was selectively prosecuted.

So this is a textbook case of when public statements and media attention really can screw up a prosecution.

KEILAR: Elliot, super helpful to talk with you about this, and we will be looking to see what develops today. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Still to come this hour: the White House threatening to use the government shutdown to carry out mass firings. We will have details on what that could mean just ahead.

And HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. says the FDA is reviewing a common abortion pill for its safety, despite the fact that it has been used for a quarter-of-a-century.

Then, later: Ukraine's President Zelenskyy delivering a sharp warning to Kremlin officials, telling them to know where their bomb shelters are. The Kremlin has its own warnings for NATO.

You're watching CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We will be right back with more news. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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SANCHEZ: In the long history of government shutdown battles, the White House is issuing what appears to be a first-of-its-kind ultimatum.

The Budget Office is telling federal agencies to prepare not for temporary layoffs, like we have seen in the past, but for permanent mass firings if Congress doesn't reach a funding deal by Tuesday's deadline. The directive was outlined in a memo obtained by CNN, though the Office of Management and Budget declined to comment.

Democratic leaders are calling it intimidation as they make several demands, including extending soon-to-expire Obamacare subsidies. On the flip side, Republicans say they're open to discussing Obamacare, but not if it's tied to the funding bill.

Let's dig into the details with CNN's Arlette Saenz.

Arlette, first, explain what's in the memo specifically.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a tactic that is far different than what we have seen in past shutdowns. The Office of Management and Budget has directed agencies to identify programs where funding would lapse if they don't reach an agreement by Tuesday night and that those programs wouldn't have alternative sources of funding.

For instance, they pointed to the domestic policy bill that was passed over the summer as being one option. Then they are asking these programs to draw up reduction-in-force plans for the potential for mass layoffs if there is no funding deal. And they also would target programs that they identify as not being consistent with Trump's agenda.

Now, this OMB memo says -- quote -- "We remain hopeful that Democrats in Congress will not trigger a shutdown and the steps outlined above will not be necessary."

This is something that was echoed by President Trump, who in the Oval Office just moments ago said that Democrats have forced him to take this measure. But Democrats are calling this an intimidation tactic, but it is so different from what we have seen in the past. A reminder, in past shutdowns, employees are furloughed, but just temporarily, and then they come back onto the job once these -- the funding gets passed.

So now there's the prospect that there could be mass layoffs. And that's on top of the already reductions that have been made to the federal work force through DOGE's efforts.

SANCHEZ: So, to the point of Democrats sticking points, why wouldn't they sign onto a C.R.?

SAENZ: Well, the main thing that they want to see is changes to health care. And specifically that comes around the Affordable Care Act subsidies. There were these enhanced Obamacare subsidies that were passed during the pandemic. Those are set to expire at the end of the year.

And one analysis has shown that premiums could go up as much as 75 percent if those subsidies aren't extended. Democrats want to see a longer extension of those subsidies. And talking to lawmakers on Capitol Hill, that's something that we have heard from Republicans too. But it's not something that Republicans are willing to come to the table on here.

Senate Majority Leader John Thune had said that he's willing to talk about changes to Obamacare subsidies, but that it can't be part of these negotiations. Jeffries has said that he wants there to be legislation extending these subsidies. Right now, it doesn't seem like they're going to be able to reach an agreement on that, really raising the prospect of a shutdown if the two sides can't come together and hammer something out.

SANCHEZ: Arlette Saenz, thanks so much for the reporting -- Brianna.

KEILAR: And this is just in. We have some breaking news. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has ordered hundreds of senior U.S. military officers from all around the globe to Virginia for a meeting next Tuesday.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is joining us on this.

Natasha, this is highly unusual. And what kind of questions does this raise about how smart this is to do something like this?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna.

As far as we can tell, something like this has never happened before, where the secretary of defense has ordered hundreds of generals and flag officers to actually be present at a meeting in person, rather than just have folks call in by a secure videoconference, which has repeatedly been done in the past whenever there is a big announcement that needs to be made or some kind of secure discussion that needs to be had.

But what we're told is that this meeting has been called for Tuesday at a military base in Virginia, Quantico. And it's unclear what this is about. One source that we spoke to quipped that it was being referred to as the "General Squid Games," because there is a broad fear among the general and flag officers that perhaps this could be some kind of mass firing.

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But other theories have ranged from receiving a briefing on the state of the Defense Department to a group physical fitness test. People are joking about this, but they are very concerned about what it could portend, because, again, this has never happened before. And they're also concerned because there are security risks involved in having this many high-ranking military officials in one place at one time.

And we should note that the Pentagon press secretary did not deny that this meeting was happening, saying only that Secretary Hegseth will be -- quote -- "addressing his senior military leaders early next week," but not answering specific questions about why this meeting is taking place and importantly what the consequences will be of removing so many of these senior officers from their theaters and from the chain of command at this very key moment, Brianna.

KEILAR: Are there concerns about, if you have a number of top military leaders essentially leaving very important posts all at the same time, what American adversaries could be looking at that as an opportunity for?

BERTRAND: It's definitely something that we have heard concerns about people, for example, generals who are in the Indo-Pacific, who are in the Middle East, who are in these very sensitive areas at this moment, where adversaries are looking, of course, to potentially exploit any gaps in that leadership.

That is something that officials are concerned about. We don't know how long this meeting is expected to last, how long these officers are expected to be here in the U.S., so a lot of questions still to be answered, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, we know that you will stay on it.

Natasha Bertrand, live for us here in Washington, thank you.

And coming up: why investigators believe the shooter had planned the attack on the ICE facility in Dallas. We will have more details ahead.

Stay with us.

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KEILAR: Back to one of our top stories today.

We're expecting to learn new details here in about an hour from officials about that deadly ICE facility shooting in Dallas. FBI Director Kash Patel says evidence collected so far suggests that the gunman did extensive research on the immigration enforcement agency, ballistics and also the Charlie Kirk shooting.

Patel said the evidence -- quote -- "indicates a high degree of pre- attack planning."

SANCHEZ: The FBI chief also says a handwritten note recovered during the investigation reads -- quote -- "Hopefully, this will give ICE agents real terror to think, is there a sniper with A.P. rounds on that roof?" Three sources familiar with the case tell CNN the shooter was 29-year- old Joshua Jahn. This is a mug shot of his from 2016 after an arrest on a drug charge.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins us now.

So, Priscilla, what else do we know so far?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the FBI director has provided the latest updates, some of which you ran through, just now, this morning.

And the FBI was brought into this investigation yesterday. That was announced by authorities on the ground. They have been taking the lead, which is why we're getting some of these updates from the FBI director in these posts on X.

But, beyond that, there is not much more that we know. Yesterday, the day, it ended with the FBI saying that they had recovered shell casings, one of which said "Anti-ICE." And now they're trying to fill in more of that picture over the course of yesterday and today. We know, for example, that investigators were on the scene over the course of yesterday.

You see images there of them trying to recover what they could. Now, as you mentioned there, Boris, there were multiple points that the FBI director made to say or to back up what they said originally, that the initial review showed that there may have been an ideological motive.

That is something the Trump administration has been saying repeatedly since this attack, citing, for example, ramped-up threats against ICE personnel and ICE facilities. And the Homeland security secretary, Kristi Noem, doubling down on this on CNN yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI NOEM, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: The indication and the evidence that has been revealed to the public so far indicates that it is someone who is very much against our ICE officers and the work that they were doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, what the homeland security secretary also said is that this appeared to be indiscriminate shooting, that there wasn't a clear target.

But what we also know is that the three people who were shot were immigrant detainees, one of whom died, two of whom are in critical condition. And it bears repeating that this is a facility where there are three populations of people going to and from all the time, ICE employees, civilians, like, for example, immigration attorneys, and also immigrant detainees, which explains why they would have been on site when the shooting unfolded early hours yesterday.

I will also tell you that the immigration attorneys I have been speaking to that frequent this building have shared with me that their check-ins for their clients have now been postponed to Monday and that all the detainees that were at this facility have been moved off site to another Texas detention center, where they will complete their processing and then be transferred elsewhere or removed from the country.

So this facility as of now appears to be completely shut down, as they continue this investigation and again try to put together this entire picture, because there are still so many questions, given, of course, that the suspected shooter did die from a self-inflicted gun wound. So we're in a situation where they can't talk to the person who carried this out.

So they're just trying to piece together what he has said or searched on the Internet, as well as, again, those shell casings that they showcased yesterday.