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At Least Four Killed In Michigan Church Shooting And Fire; Eric Adams Drops Out Of Race For New York Mayor; Soon: Trump And Netanyahu Meet At White House To Discuss A Gaza Ceasefire. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired September 29, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:30:40]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So this morning the FBI is now taking the lead in the investigation into the deadly church shooting and fire in Grand Blanc, Michigan. At least four people are now confirmed dead. Eight others were wounded in this. And a source tells CNN that as many as seven people remain unaccounted for today. The search for them is set to resume this morning.

The attacker has been identified as a 40-year-old Marine veteran who served in the Iraq War. Investigators are still searching for a motive here.

And joining me right now is CNN senior national security analyst Juliette Kayyem for more on this. It's such a tragedy how this was described and what these people are -- have endured.

The FBI -- they are in -- as the FBI is now taking the lead on this investigation, they have made the point to say that they're considering this an act of targeted violence. What does that mean about where this investigation is headed, Juliette?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, HARVARD PROFESSOR (via Webex by Cisco): So this is unique for the FBI to take charge so quickly when we still haven't been told that there's a known motive.

So they're basing it on what would be obvious, right? It is a church. It was a -- not just a mass shooting but also an arson targeted against a protected space -- a secure, a sacred space. And so under hate crimes law it -- they are going to go with the theory that it was attacked not because of an individual person or because Thomas Sanford, the killer, knew -- had a relationship to the church but because of a religious hate crime. We don't know that yet but the FBI taking control of it would suggest that is their sort of primary theory, which seems absolutely right.

BOLDUAN: And look, this is the latest of so many -- too many shooting attacks at houses of worship in the United States over the years. I mean, you look at how many there have been over the past 20 years. You just look last month. Two children were killed during that mass

during -- when they were sitting in the middle of mass at a church -- at the Church of the Annunciation in Minneapolis. That horrible, horrible tragedy.

Why are places of worship so often targets?

KAYYEM: Well, I mean, obviously because it is -- often it is going after the religion itself -- if it's a minority religion -- say, Judaism. We've seen many, many attacks against synagogues or hate crimes against synagogues for people taking their political protests of what's happening in Israel towards the Jewish community. This is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also a minority church in the United States.

And so that is the, you know -- and I would say also the impact of going after a place of worship in terms of its sacred place. The sense that people there should feel secure is now out the window in the United States. There are just too many incidences from Pennsylvania and the Tree of Life synagogue to what happened yesterday that show that they aren't sacred and they aren't secure.

I'll say one more thing. It's very difficult to secure these places for people of faith. These churches, synagogues, mosques -- they are welcoming for a reason. I mean, you know, you -- they -- the religion wants to welcome people to it. So the more -- so if you make it into a prison, it is very difficult to cultivate that faith. And that's the -- that's the horror of this in many ways it's the lockdown of spaces that should be welcoming and embrace people of the faith and people not of the faith. And that's been the challenge in securing these facilities for a long time.

BOLDUAN: And Jonathan Wackrow, former Secret Service agent -- you know him well as he's been working with us for many years. He made a point yesterday when we were talking about the attack on the ICE detention facility.

He said that illustrated what he is calling assassination culture that has taken hold in the United States. He just says -- he describes it as a dangerous mix of grievance plus ideology, plus moral absolutism that then -- whereas there used to be a trail of warning signs missed in past shootings that you'd find after the fact --

KAYYEM: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: -- in many of the things. Now there's just this rapid radicalization of people, which is often formed online. And he says this is a progression that should be scaring every law enforcement entity.

[07:35:00]

Again, we don't know what's going on here. I'm just looking at it and --

KAYYEM: Right. BOLDUAN: -- what we've seen is one after another.

What do you think of that?

KAYYEM: I think that's right. I mean, I think the sniper-assassin -- where there's a copycat feature to this. You know, Charlie Kirk and then someone happens to follow up a week later with the ICE attack. So that's going to be a particular kind of threat.

And all of us looking at radicalization now, you know, we're not finding any moment that's making sense, right? There's no -- there's no strong ties to any political group. There's no sort of outward manifestation of hate towards that group that we're seeing in these cases -- in the last couple of cases. You know, you're not seeing these manifestos, which used to sort of give us a sense of what motive is.

I have to say I've been looking at this -- the person who shot the -- shot at the church yesterday. I'm not seeing anything yet in terms of public identity. He could be in these other websites and these -- and these places that tend to radicalize online but we don't know that yet.

And so this is the fear for all of us is that there's no intervention point to speak of, right? I mean, there's just -- this is just happening without any ability for law enforcement to step in. Family members may not know. And someone just does a horrific killing like this against a -- against a church and the church itself --

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

KAYYEM: -- which is horrifying.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

Juliette, thank you so much for coming in. Always appreciate it -- Sara.

KAYYEM: Thanks, Kate.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. New this morning lawmakers less than 48 hours away to agree to funding -- a funding deal. Otherwise, we will see a federal government shutdown. Typically, these shutdowns though don't really have a big impact on the overall economy, but our Matt Egan is here to tell us about why this time might be different. What's happening now?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah. Well, Sara, the stakes are higher now, right? I mean, the Trump administration raised those stakes last week by making that unusual threat to carry out mass layoffs of federal workers if there's a shutdown. And keep in mind the federal workforce is already shrinking rapidly --

SIDNER: Right.

EGAN: -- down by 97,000 jobs just since the end of January. And that's, of course, because of all of the cuts made by the Trump administration. And this doesn't even factor in some of the federal workers who took buyouts but they're still getting paid, at least for another few days. And so the problem here is that this would just add to an already rising unemployment rate.

Now, it's easy to see how this could just be a negotiating tactic. Then again, few people thought that the president would put 145 tariffs on China until he did.

I talked to Jared Bernstein, the former Biden administration economist, and he told me that this is not just bad economics; he said it's profoundly unfair. He said, "This is just running over innocent bystanders. It's not their fault you can't keep the lights on."

Now this looming government shutdown -- it's obviously not taking place in a vacuum. It's taking place at a time when the economy -- it already looks a bit more vulnerable than it has in prior government shutdown fights. And so this would just sort of add to the chaos and uncertainty in an already chaotic and uncertain environment. It's exactly the opposite of what you'd want if your goal was to try to inspire confidence among CEOs and small businesses owners to try to get them to hire more.

SIDNER: Um-hum.

EGAN: The other thing here is that a shutdown could impact the release of major economic data that's scheduled for release, right, starting on Friday with the big September jobs report. I mean, analysts say that if there's a government shutdown those numbers may not come out.

And it's not just the jobs report, right? We've got major inflation reports scheduled for release in just over two weeks. The government may not be able to collect the data on those prices if there's a shutdown, let alone release the numbers. So that means that the Fed, meeting at the end of the month, may not have all of the information on hand it needs when it's trying to decide whether or not to cut interest rates.

And so you could have a situation where CEOs, investors, and yeah, even the Fed is basically flying blind as they're making key decisions.

SIDNER: Yeah. The Fed has hinted that rates would get cut, but this could have an impact on that.

EGAN: Yeah.

SIDNER: And just the balloon of overall uncertainty here usually rattles the markets but also rattles people in general.

EGAN: Yeah.

SIDNER: We will see what happens.

EGAN: Absolutely.

SIDNER: Matt Egan, thank you for --

EGAN: Thank you, Sara.

SIDNER: -- your reporting -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. With us now Republican strategist Doug Heye, and former White House director of messaging planning Meghan Hays.

There is a meeting at the White House -- the first of this term -- with Donald Trump and the four congressional leaders -- a bipartisan meeting. But there are some questions about whether either side actually wants a deal before a government shutdown. So let me ask each of you to take a look at each side here.

Doug, first to you. Can you give me the risk and the reward, potentially, for Republicans if there is a shutdown?

[07:40:05]

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I don't think there's much of a risk for either party. What we've seen -- and John, I worked the 2013 shutdown which began on October 1 as well. What we tried to do there is tell our members if we do this -- because Republicans created the shutdown -- if we do this, we're going to touch the stove and we're going to get burned. The political reality is Republicans didn't get burned.

So then the incentive is what do you in performative politics to your base? And Republicans -- I think Mike Johnson is very smart here. He is doing a very basic operation of communication, saying guys, let's not shut down the government. Let's be reasonable here.

And he knows that if the government is shut down if Democrats aren't able to get on board in the Senate, that Donald Trump is going to exact as much pain as possible. That may not last for a whole year politically but we see the Democrats may be -- in their urge to resist, in their urge to fight, they may be Jedi mind-tricking themselves into allowing Donald Trump to have a lot more power and cause a lot more political pain for Democrats. And that's something that I would urge them to consider very carefully.

BERMAN: So Meghan, Doug suggests little risk for Republicans; only reward. What about for Democrats here?

MEGHAN HAYS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION CONSULTANT: I think the risk is great for both parties. I don't think you should ever try to have a shutdown. Government shutdowns just show that the government is not working for the American people.

Most people are not following this. But what they are following is that their health care costs are going to up. That their subsidy now is being cut to the Obamacare and they won't be able to afford health care. And that really will impact the economy. And the Republican Party, who Donald Trump says has a mandate -- that will impact them and that will impact them heading into the midterms.

BERMAN: Do you think that Democrats, Meghan, want this fight? That rank-and-file Democrats want to see Sen. Schumer here stand up in some way on something?

HAYS: I think that Democrats and the base definitely want to see the Democratic leadership stand up, but I also think that Democrats here want to have a fight against health care. It is important for the American people to have health care and to have affordable healthcare. And I think it's worth something that it's fighting for.

But I do not -- again, do not think that a government shutdown is what we should -- that to be the solution here.

BERMAN: Doug, I want to ask you about something that may not be quite as important as thousands of people losing their jobs and the government shutting down -- the Super Bowl halftime show. It was announced the Bad Bunny will be performing at the halftime show. And this is to some people, apparently, political, right? Because Bad Bunny supported Kamala Harris in the election.

Bad Bunny has said he would not bring his tour to the United States proper because he was concerned with ICE raids. But he is going to perform at the Super Bowl in California.

Just to give you a sense of the controversy here, this is how the Daily Mail -- look, and the Daily Mail is all about stoking controversy here. But they said "Trump-hating rapper Bad Bunny stokes MAGA fury with defiant message after being chosen to headline Super Bowl halftime show despite snubbing U.S. over ICE fears."

What do you think of this as a controversy? Do you think that President Trump will be able to resist weighing in here?

HEYE: Well, first of all, John, like a lot of people I'm exhausted because I stayed up to watch a 40-40 tie last night. I'd like to see wins and losses in football. But ultimately, can we keep politics out of our NFL halftime shows?

I'm a Bad Bunny fan. I know what he did in Puerto Rico was huge. Steward Redqueen, the economic impact firm, said $300 million-plus he brought into Puerto Rico by doing all those concerts. He's a great musician. He'll have a great show.

Let's keep the politics out of it. R or D, let's keep the politics out of things like this.

BERMAN: Good luck with that, Doug.

Possible Meghan?

HAYS: I don't think it's possible. I wanted Taylor Swift to perform at the halftime show. I though that's where we were going with this. But I think that Bad Bunny is a great choice. And I agree with Doug. Let's leave the politics out of it and have one day where we can just be entertained. BERMAN: Um, I like that idea although again, I wouldn't be on it, either of you.

I do want to ask about the economic situation in the United States right now for U.S. farmers. I was at Farm Aid like eight days ago there and farmers are struggling in ways, in some cases, they haven't since the 1980s. I mean, soybeans aren't moving. There are countries not buying soybeans -- China among them right now.

So farmers are facing a real issue largely, they blame, because of the tariffs that are in effect right now. And now, President Trump says there may need to be a bailout of farmers with some of the funds from the tariffs. But again, there may need to be a bailout because of current policy.

This is what Senate Majority Leader John Thune just had to say about that, Doug. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: There are markets right now that aren't open to some of our commodities. As a consequence of that there are -- we've got a big harvest coming in here in South Dakota -- corn and soybeans -- and no place to go with it.

So what the president has said is I'm going to support and I'm going to help our farmers. And so we are -- we are looking at it. I'm a member of the Senate Ag Committee and have been for some time. And we're looking at potential solutions to make sure that we can help support farmers until some of those markets come back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You know, he uses language "until those markets come back," Doug, but they went because of the tariffs. This is something that has been caused by policy and now you're going to have to bail something out based on decisions that were made?

[07:45:08]

HEYE: Look, you know, traditional Republican policy -- obviously, we're not in a traditional Republican Party anymore -- has been dead seat against tariffs. This is why.

And so, look, Donald Trump is able to sell this very successfully, especially when it's against China, but it does come with real economic impacts, and this is part of what we're seeing here. It should be a surprise. A lot of traditional conservatives warned exactly about things like this.

BERMAN: Meghan, quick last work.

HAYS: Yeah. I think elections have consequences, right, and I think these farmers are seeing some of the consequences from electing Donald Trump. Tariffs are a tax, and the American people are paying a tax. And now they are paying the consequences of not being able to sell their goods.

BERMAN: Meghan Hays, Doug Heye, great to see both of you. Thanks so much -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Ahead, can President Trump get the Israeli prime minister onboard with his 21-point plan for Gaza? The two are meeting this morning to discuss. If not, what then?

And Dolly Parton is now delaying her Vegas residency to, as she announced, have a few procedures due to health challenges. And she made a point to say to her fans it's not a trip to the plastic surgeon.

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[07:50:32]

BERMAN: All right. This morning upheaval in the race to lead the country's most populous city. New York City Mayor Eric Adams suspended his bid for re-election; a move championed by those who wanted to consolidate opposition Democratic nominee Zohran Mamdani.

Adams' term has been plagued by accusations of corruption. He blames his campaign troubles on a lack of fundraising and what he calls constant media scrutiny.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino, one of the reporters who has been covering this from the beginning, providing the appropriate level of scrutiny on each candidate here. I think everyone had been waiting for this moment. It came.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, absolutely, John. It was not a surprising announcement but still just a stunning end --

BERMAN: Sure.

PAZMINO: -- to the political career of Mayor Eric Adams -- someone who just four years ago called themself the future of the Democratic Party. He said he was the Biden of Brooklyn and talked about how his politics were the kind of politics that the Democratic Party needed to be adopting in order to gain more support.

But then the next -- the last four years happened, and he had a federal indictment. Accused of corruption last year. Several of his top aides also facing corruption allegations. His senior, most-trusted adviser indicted just a few weeks ago.

So while Adams blamed the media, saying that it had tried to undermine his campaign, making it very difficult for him to raise money, the reality is that this was a mayor who could not get out of his own way. He had some wins, some accomplishments. The city is the safest it has ever been. But he could not get out from that constant cloud of corruption.

The question now is what does it all mean and is it going to help former Gov. Andrew Cuomo at all? We've also heard from the Democratic mayoral nominee Zohran Mamdani

reacting to the news and clearly setting up for what is expected to be a sprint from now until November in an ongoing fight. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZOHRAN MAMDANI, (D) NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: And to Andrew Cuomo, you got your wish. You wanted Trump and your billionaire friends to help you clear the field. But don't forget you wanted me as your opponent in the primary too, and we beat you by 13 points. Looking forward to doing it again on November 4. Hope you're well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Now John, it was videos like that that go so much attention for Mamdani during the primary campaign. And I've been speaking to his aides over the last 24 hours or so and they see this as a very good development, especially because of the point that Mamdani makes in the video.

They say that Cuomo is Trump's chosen candidate in this race. They say that it's billionaire supporters who are trying to uphold -- to support his campaign. And that essentially feeds into their messaging that their campaign is about affordability and working class people.

Andrew Cuomo, for now, just has said nice things about Eric Adams. He essentially thanked him for leaving the race, praising him for making the right decision for the city of New York. But we'll see how the next 5 1/2 weeks --

BERMAN: Yeah.

PAZMINO: -- or so shapes out from now until November because it is going to be a two-person race, plus the Republican Curtis Sliwa who remains in the race and has shown no signs of getting out anytime soon.

BERMAN: Yeah. And look, I'm sure Cuomo wants an endorsement from Eric Adams but it's not clear even if that --

PAZMINO: Um-hum.

BERMAN: -- would make a difference given --

PAZMINO: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- how low Adams' support was at the end there.

Gloria Pazmino, you've been doing great reporting on this from the beginning. Thank you -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right. So this morning there are still people who remain unaccounted for following some devastated -- devastating flooding in Arizona. At least four people are already confirmed dead. The streets turned into rivers in the town of -- this is Miami, Arizona. In a nearby Globe, floodwaters left behind an absolute muddy mess, as you can see, on Saturday. The governor, Katie Hobbs, has declared a state of emergency.

In Phoenix, the storm brought more than an inch and a half of rain on Friday, the most in a single day in nearly seven years.

So Dolly Parton is announcing she's taking a brief break. The country music icon is postponing her upcoming residency in Las Vegas due to what she announced as health challenges. The 79-year-old says she is undergoing a few medical procedures.

And in classic Dolly Parton fashion she's taking everything in stride and keeping her humor intact, telling fans in this announcement -- and here's the quote for you, guys -- "It must be time for my 100,000-mile checkup, although it's not the usual trip to see my plastic surgeon."

[07:55:00]

Parton was scheduled to perform at Caesar's Palace in December. It is unclear when she might reschedule those shows.

And talk about jaw-dropping strength, literally. A 44-year-old wrestler pulled a 700-ton ship using only his teeth in Egypt's Red Sea resort. He's trying to break the world record of heaviest ship pull using one's teeth. If that wasn't enough, he followed it up by pulling two ships together, totaling more than 1,100 tons. His next goal, pulling a submarine and one day moving a plane using only his eyelid muscles.

SIDNER: Stop it! You're making that up, Kate.

BOLDUAN: I actually went and started looking into it and I was like there's -- I was like there's an autocorrect that must have happened in this.

SIDNER: Alrighty then.

BOLDUAN: There you go. It's making me wearing fake eyelashes seem pretty easy these days.

SIDNER: I'm going to have to agree with you there. I will not be taking part in that challenge. Thank you so much, Kate.

All right. In a just a few hours, President Trump is scheduled to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House. The high-stakes discussion comes as Trump yesterday promised "something special" is coming on Gaza.

As Israel's military campaign in Gaza continues to devastate the area, the Trump administration has proposed a 21-point peace plan that, in part, calls for an immediate ceasefire, all hostages held by Hamas to released within 48 hours of an agreement, and a roadmap for Gaza without Hamas rule once the war ends.

Here is what Netanyahu said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Well, we're working on it, Jacqui. It's not been finalized yet but we're working with President Trump's team, actually as we speak. And I hope we can -- we can make it a go because we want to free our hostages. We want to get rid of Hamas rule.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: And joining me now is Dana Stroul, former deputy assistant Secretary of Defense for the Middle East. Thank you so much for being here.

How much leverage do you think President Donald Trump actually has now with Prime Minister Netanyahu, who officials -- and you heard there -- seems not as certain that a deal can be made the way that Trump is saying it can?

DANA STROUL, RESEARCH DIRECTOR, THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR THE MIDDLE EAST: Well certainly, President Trump has all of the leverage that no other country -- not in the region, not in Europe, not at the United Nations -- has over President -- Prime Minister Netanyahu and his decisions.

The key thing is so far in his second administration Trump has not chosen to use any of that leverage over Netanyahu's decisions when it comes to Gaza. We seen him apply it on Lebanon, on Syria, on Iran, but not in the case of Gaza. So there's been absolutely no daylight.

So the question today in that Oval Office meeting is are we going to see any daylight? Are we going to see Trump put any pressure on Netanyahu to end the Israeli military operations?

SIDNER: How detailed must this plan be to work? This can't just be OK, we're going to have a ceasefire and then we'll figure it out, correct?

STROUL: Well, it's not very detailed in terms of implementation. It is basically from the Biden administration there were three phases to a ceasefire: ceasefire, then the Israeli military withdraws, then more hostages get released. Then there's discussion about reconstruction, stabilization, and rebuilding in Gaza.

This plan just jumbles it all together. So it's not really new ideas but it's all at once in one grand bargain.

And again, if it's too detailed probably you're going to have people either on the Arab side, the Hamas side, or the Israeli side start to pick it apart.

And so the question is can we get Netanyahu to say yes today or is he going to say yes, but.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about this. Netanyahu, just this month, said that there will be no Palestinian state west of the Jordan River. Donald Trump's plan has a pathway to Palestinian statehood.

Where do you see some of the biggest clashes between the two leaders?

STROUL: It's actually quite remarkable to me that in the Trump peace plan Palestinian statehood was included. We heard Netanyahu very clearly in his U.N. speech last week say that is absolutely a nonstarter.

I think that the catch in this 21-point peace plan is that it's not an immediate Palestinian state. It's over time after reform of the Palestinian Authority. After a peace dialogue and things like this. The question is can Netanyahu, given the constraints of his very right-wing governing coalition, walk out of the White House today having said yes to an eventual Palestinian state.

SIDNER: Dana Stroul, thank you so much for joining us with your expertise -- appreciate it.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

BOLDUAN: At least four people are dead this morning after a mass shooting and arson attack in a place of worship.