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Michigan Church Attack; Trump and Netanyahu Meet; Polls on Troops Going to Cities; Rep. Brad Schneider (D-IL) is Interviewed about Portland; Man Accused of Bar Shooting Appears in Court; Steve Ubl is Interviewed about the Pharmaceutical Deadline. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired September 29, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:32:06]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: An urgent search this morning in Michigan after the deadly shooting and fire at a church in Grand Blanc. At least four people are dead, eight others wounded. A source says as many as seven people are still unaccounted for. A 40-year-old Marine veteran has been identified as the attacker. Police say he rammed his truck into the church, started shooting and set a fire that destroyed the building. He was killed in an exchange of gunfire with police. The FBI has now taken over this investigation. They say they are searching for a motive. We're expecting a news conference at some point this morning.

CNN's Leigh Waldman on the scene.

Leigh, give us a sense of what's happening now.

LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, like you mentioned, the FBI taking the lead of this investigation. They're also calling this an act of targeted violence with what happened here. Sun is up now. You can see down the road behind us, down that road is where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is, where this attack actually took place. We're starting to see more and more activity ramping up here. Drones flying up ahead as more law enforcement vehicles are making their way in.

We know those recovery efforts were suspended overnight as things turned darker, but we're expecting to see them really ramping up throughout the day today, hoping for more information from law enforcement at a news conference at some point this morning. But what we know right now is they're looking into the shooter himself. We know he's a Marine veteran, served in Iraq. They searched his home where they suspected he lived yesterday. We know that there's also ongoing efforts to try and search his digital footprint to get a full picture of what the motive is behind this attack.

All of this while they're trying to search this chapel that they've deemed completely destroyed by the fire that was set after the shooting that took place. Take a look -- listen to what the police chief had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF WILLIAM RENYE, GRAND BLANC TOWNSHIP POLICE: We're working around the clock now. So, we're working tirelessly to find additional bodies.

The entire church has not been cleared because it's a total loss due to the fire. So, these first responders, right now, they're in recovery mode.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALDMAN: And, John, I do want to point out, this is the neighborhood leading up to this -- these churches that are just down the street here. We spoke with one neighbor, Jeff. He said he heard pops. He thought it was firecrackers. Neighbors trying to get rid of the geese that are oftentimes in their front lawns, living down the street. But after 30 or 40 pops, he assumed, oh, my gosh, this is a shooting that's happening down the way. He said he and neighbors walked to the wooded area just down the street here. They heard someone yelling, "stop, stop." And then they then they heard one more pop.

Now, what we know from law enforcement is they arrived within 30 seconds of this first 911 call. They engage with the shooter and within eight minutes, at the back parking lot of that church, they were able to stop the killing, stop the gunman there.

John.

[08:35:00]

BERMAN: What a terrifying scene. All right, Leigh Waldman, good to have you there.

Again, we're waiting for a news conference maybe this morning.

Appreciate it.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, in a couple hours, President Trump is scheduled to sit down with the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, at the White House. This meeting comes as the president, President Trump, yesterday promised, quote/unquote, something special is coming with regard to his plan for Gaza. But as Israel's military campaign in Gaza continues, Israeli officials say that Netanyahu has some big reservations about the White House's ceasefire plan that is shared -- that he shared -- that they shared with Arab leaders last week during the United Nations General Assembly.

CNN's Alayna Treene is at the White House ahead of all of this.

They've met many a time. This one seems particularly important and quite a moment for these two leaders.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's exactly right. This is actually Netanyahu's fourth visit to the White House, Kate, in the president's second term. And to give you a sense of what today is going to look like, the Israeli prime minister is expected to arrive here around 11:00 a.m. He's going to sit down in a bilateral meeting with the president.

But the thing that is the most notable that I would be paying the most attention to is that they are going to have a joint press conference later this afternoon. It's currently scheduled for around 1:15. That, to me, is the strongest signal yet that the president is expecting this deal, this 21-point ceasefire in post-war governance plan that he had laid out at the U.N. last week. He is expecting that -- this press conference is telling me, expecting to have that finalized and hoping that that will happen today.

Now, to be clear, Netanyahu, who he met yesterday in New York City with Steve Witkoff, the president's Middle East envoy, and also Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, who has been very involved behind the scenes on all things Middle East in this administration, they all met yesterday. But Netanyahu said yesterday that he still has not accepted this plan proposed by the Trump administration.

Listen to what he told Fox.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We're working on it, Jackie. It's not been finalized yet, but we're working with President Trump's team, actually as we speak. And I hope we can -- we can make it a go because we want to free our hostages, we want to get rid of Hamas rule and have them disarmed, Gaza demilitarized and a new future set up for -- for Gazans and Israelis alike.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, Kate, that comes as we are also being told, according to three Israeli officials, that Netanyahu still has reservations around this plan and is expected to push for changes to the ceasefire proposal. But I want you to contrast that from what we've heard from the president, President Donald Trump. He said yesterday, "we have a real chance for greatness in the Middle East. All are on board for something special. First time ever. We will get it done."

Again, very clear that the president is very optimistic that they can move here. And that is his goal for today. If not finalizing this agreement, at least getting the Israeli prime minister much closer and more on board. We're waiting to see what is discussed behind the scenes. But again, that joint press conference is going to be very telling about where things stand.

BOLDUAN: That's a great point. Thank you so much, Alayna Treene. A lot to happen at the White House today.

John.

BERMAN: All right, the city of Portland, the state of Oregon, suing the Trump administration to block deployment of hundreds of National Guard troops to Portland. The president says he's doing it to protect ICE facilities.

With us now, CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten.

The administration clearly thinks this is a winning issue for them as they keep on doing it and leaning in. What do the polls say?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes, this is fact check time. You know the idea, oh, we're going to be hawkish on crime. We're going to be hawkish on immigration. It's good for us. But, in fact, not necessarily. What are we talking about here? All right, Trump deploying National Guards to cities in the United States of America. Look at this, just 42 percent of Americans support that idea of sending troops in to cities like Portland. What about the opposition? Look at this. It's the lions share, 58 percent opposed. And we're talking about 64 percent of independents who are opposed. So, if Donald Trump thinks that potentially sending in the National Guard into cities like Portland is a winning political issue, the polling says, uh-uh, you are wrong, Mr. President.

BERMAN: The most analogous situation is what happened in Los Angeles, correct? What happened to the numbers there after the president did that then?

ENTEN: Yes, we've heard this music before, right? We've heard this song before. And what happened the last time that Trump sent National Guard into a western city? Well, take a look at the change in Trump's net approval. Overall, it dropped four points. How about on immigration, which, of course, those protests were about. Look at that, it dropped by seven points.

So, we have history of Donald Trump sending the National Guard into a western city. And what happened was, there were clear political ramifications for the president of the United States, and they were not good ramifications. What happened was his overall approval rating dropped by four points, and his immigration approval, which had been his best issue up to that point, dropped by seven points, went from net positive territory to net negative territory.

BERMAN: And in this case he says he's doing it to protect ICE facilities, which brings us to the issue of ICE in general. What are opinions on -- on this incident?

ENTEN: Yes. So, let's take a look at ICE approval.

[08:40:02]

All right, ICE's net popularity rating. You know, in Trump's first term it was at zero points. Not too great but not too bad either. But take a look now. Look at this. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, that agency, look at that, minus 14 points, down it goes because of their actions during the second Trump term. In fact, the Pew Research Center polled 16 different agencies. ICE's net popularity rating was 15th out of 16th. It was close to being the least popular of them all.

This bottom line is, John, the president may think this is a politically winning issue for him, but the numbers tell a very different story. It's, in fact, a political loser.

BERMAN: Interesting. All right, Harry Enten, thank you very much.

ENTEN: Thank you, my friend.

BERMAN: Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, joining me now is Congressman Brad Schneider, Democrat of Illinois.

Thank you so much for being here.

You just heard that polling. Trump is sending troops to Portland. He's also just increased the ICE presence for raids in your state. And he says he will send troops to Chicago at some point, although he had promised that before sending them to Portland, right after he sent troops to Washington, D.C.

How do you think the state and local government should respond?

REP. BRAD SCHNEIDER (D-IL): Well, I think what you've seen in Chicago, Illinois, is -- is the way we need to address it. The governor has been very clear. ICE -- ICE is not welcome to do what they're doing here. They're literally going around terrorizing our communities, tackling people, bringing them to the ground, physical violence, terrorizing communities. Not -- not keeping the community safer, but actually making people scared and frightened.

And with respect to the National Guard, the governor said they're not needed here. Every -- we've all been together on this. I visited Naval Station Great Lakes with Senator Durbin and Senator Duckworth to talk to the base, making sure that their mission of training our sailors is protected and not abused by the president.

The bottom line is, the president's trying to provoke violence. He's trying to create a situation where he can justify the actions he wants to take. It's a totalitarian -- totalitarian playbook that we've seen play out in other places, and it has no place here in America.

SIDNER: All right, in less than 48 hours, we could see a federal government shutdown if no agreement is made to further fund the government. This, today, will be the first time ever that President Trump will sit down with House Democratic Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries.

What message do your constituents want Democratic leadership to send?

SCHNEIDER: My constituents -- I was around the district this week, all weekend, they're saying the same thing, we need to stand up to the president. The president is trying to usurp the authority of Congress. He's trying to take away programs that Congress -- that Congress has authorized, and that the people of our communities depend upon. And, you know, you opened with the question -- you open the question with the key point, this is the first time, nine months into this administration, it's the first time that the president is meeting with Democratic leadership. He's made it clear he doesn't want to work with the Democrats. He isn't willing to work with the Democrats. And any deal he would make with the Democrats, he's demonstrated time and again that he's not going to honor.

So, the -- our caucus is standing strong. We are protecting the health care of the American people. We're working to lower costs of living for the American people. We're going to fight to protect the interests of the American people.

SIDNER: Let me ask you this, because there's a threat out there from President Trump that if Democrats don't vote to help Republicans, at least seven Democrats have to vote to help pass this continuing resolution, then the president says he's going to do this mass firings, permanent firings of more federal workers.

You know, President Trump and Republicans have been clear that they want a smaller federal government. Does this put Democrats in a lose- lose position here?

SCHNEIDER: The only people losing are the American people. The president has been firing federal workers since the day he took office last January. And they've been going after department after department. The courts have questioned some of those or -- or stopped some of those and others, they -- they haven't put a restraining order, but said that they have -- have concerns and they're going to hear the cases. We have seen in departments like the VA and others where the administration has fired people, realize those people are necessary to do the work the American public deserves and demands, and they're rushing to try to rehire those people.

Earlier in the show you talked about the hurricanes in the -- in the Atlantic Ocean. The president's been cutting the weather service that helps predict and -- and protect Americans in anticipating hurricanes. There are so many departments that this administration has diminished. They've done it with the government funded. They'll continue to do it if the Republicans who control the House and the Senate aren't able to get the votes to -- to fund the government now.

But the Republicans control everything. They have the House, the Senate and the White House. They can't do it alone. If they need the Democrats, we're willing to work with them.

[08:45:00]

We want to work with them. But we're not going to just lay down and let them walk all over us.

SIDNER: You're co-chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and co- founder of the Abraham Accords Caucus. Do you have any issues with the 21-point Gaza ceasefire that Trump is putting forth? And he will be talking to the Israeli prime minister today about it. What's your concern?

SCHNEIDER: Well, my -- it's -- let's talk about possibilities first. I pray -- we all want this war to end. We want the hostages home tomorrow, today. And we want the people of Gaza to be able to build a future free from Hamas. There will never be peace for the people of Gaza, the people of Israel, the region, as long as Hamas controls Gaza and threatens annihilation of Israel. So, this proposal, the 21- points, there's a lot in there that offers hope for both sides. It's not fully completed. There's a lot of details that need to come out. The devil's always in the details.

But I hope that the president and Prime Minister Netanyahu can have a constructive conversation that continues to possibilities. That's why I'm so excited about the Abraham Accords. Proud to chair the Abraham Accords Caucus. It sees a different vision for the Middle East, where the Israelis and Palestinians and all the people of the region can live together in peace, recognizing each other's presence and the fact that the land belongs -- or actually the people belong to the land. Both Israelis and Palestinians belong to the same land. And by embracing each other, looking to a future together, they can not only lift up each other, but they can lift up the whole region.

SIDNER: All right, lots of dreams there. The reality much harder. We will see what the details are.

Congressman Brad Schneider, thank you so much for coming on.

John.

BERMAN: All right, whatever you do, don't look down. In daylight you could actually see that that is the world's tallest bridge. The dramatic daylight opening. We promise we'll show you a picture of just how high this thing is.

And then deadline day for pharmaceutical companies to lower prices. Will you actually see any changes?

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[08:51:03]

SIDNER: Happening today, the man accused of opening fire on a waterfront bar, killing three people and wounding eight others, is due in a North Carolina courtroom. The 40-year-old Marine veteran faces three counts of first-degree murder. Officials say he acted alone in what they're calling a highly premeditated attack, and that most of the victims appear to be tourists.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher has more. She's been following this from the beginning.

What updates do we have, if any, on the victims in this case?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Sara, authorities have still not given any real information about those victims outside of saying that they are visitors to the area. They've identified them through initials, saying that they want to make sure that they have reached out to the proper family members before releasing that information publicly.

They did hold a community vigil in Southport last night where they mourned the victims, they prayed for the injured and they really talked about their shattered sense of security in this idyllic waterfront community that, up until this, was better known as being just a great vacation spot and the backdrop to TV shows and movies.

And look, it was tourists and locals who were there at the American Fish Company on Saturday night when police say that a white boat coming up the Cape Fear River briefly paused before they say 40-year- old Nigel Max Edge opened fire. He killed three people. They say he injured several others before going back up the intracoastal waterway. The Coast Guard did catch up with him later and arrested -- he was arrested. They say that, again, they believe this shooting was targeted and highly premeditated. They have not given any additional details on why they believe that at this point.

But I will tell you that the sense of security, the feeling in Southport right now is one that is just completely shattered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON DAVID, SOUTHPORT, NORTH CAROLINA, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Evil has come ashore in Southport, North Carolina. Ironically enough, at the very place which once served as a backdrop to the movie "Safe Haven."

When the dust settled, eight people were shot. Three of them are dead, and at least one is now clinging for their life.

I'm confident, based on what I now know, that we got the right guy and that he acted alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Now, police say that that alleged shooter, Nigel Max Edge, is known to authorities and by many in the community, though perhaps by a different name. He legally changed his name from Sean DeBevoise to Nigel Max Edge in 2023. The 40-year-old Marine veteran lives in Oak Island, just across the intracoastal waterway. He's a Purple Heart recipient who was profiled numerous times in local media for his grave injuries he received fighting in Iraq. But in the past five years he's filed more than ten lawsuits against just about everybody, from the federal and local governments, to a celebrity, and even his own parents, alleging conspiracies about his injuries and the Marines. He's represented himself.

Police say that he told them that he has PTSD. CNN is still trying to determine if he has an attorney.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, Dianne Gallagher, thank you so much for following this story. Really devastating.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, police in Charlotte are investigating after a person was found dead in the landing gear compartment of an American Airlines plane. The flight had traveled in from Europe. Airline workers found the body when they were performing maintenance. Police have not identified the stowaway or where he or she is from.

And here it is, the world's tallest bridge. It just opened in southwest China. And it sits 2,051 feet above the canyon floor. You can just look at that picture and see how incredibly high it is. It also spans nearly a mile there. So, I'm sure you feel completely safe for that full mile as you're 2,000 feet above the ground.

[08:55:04]

The bridge will cut travel time for people on live each -- who live on each side from about two hours now to just two minutes. And to celebrate the opening, there was this big light show where they say it was designed to make it look like a waterfall falling over the bridge. And I guess it kind of does just a little bit.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: One hundred percent. An engineering marvel. Somebody's --

BERMAN: Yes, not the bridge, but the light show.

BOLDUAN: No, both.

BERMAN: Yes, the light show was an engineering marvel, for sure.

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

All right, so let's turn to this. Today is the deadline for 17 major pharmaceutical companies to comply with President Trump's deadline that they peg their drug prices to the lowest price charged in other rich nations. This is all called most favored nation pricing.

Back in July, the president issued the executive order about this that the lower prices be provided to Medicaid enrollees. Trump warning at the time that if the drug companies do not comply, that they will face, in his words, "every tool of our arsenal against abuse of drug pricing." There's that deadline.

Another deadline is just days away. The president announcing that as of October 1st there will be a 100 percent tariff on any branded or patented pharmaceutical product coming to the U.S. unless a company is building a manufacturing plant in the United States.

And all of this also coming as the president's -- after the president's announcement last week, trying to link the risk of autism to the use of Tylenol during pregnancy, contradicting decades of evidence that the medicine is safe.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just want to say -- I want to say it like it is, don't take Tylenol. Don't take it. If you just can't -- I mean it's -- fight like hell not to take it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Add that all up and it really shows the president is making quite a lot of moves against the pharmaceutical industry right now.

Joining me right now is Steve Ubl. He's the president and CEO of the trade association for the industry, the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, better known as PhRMA.

Steve, thank you for being here.

Let's talk first about the deadline today. You've got two examples that I've seen of recent of the moves that some of the pharmaceutical companies are making. Bristol-Myers Squibb and Eli Lilly, they have made moves, but instead of lowering prices in the United States, they're increasing prices of drugs overseas. Why?

STEVE UBL, PRESIDENT AND CEO, PHRMA: Yes, I think when you make cross- border comparisons, it can get very complicated. Countries outside the United States tend to spend less on innovative medicines and more on generic medicines. When you consider them both, actually in the U.S., we spend about 18 percent less than other wealthy nations.

It's also true that Americans have the benefit of timely access to new treatments and cures. About 85 percent of newly approved medicines at the FDA. It's about half that rate in Europe, and about a third that rate in Asia.

There are actually several areas of common agreement with the administration and how better to address pricing differentials between our countries. The first is addressing PBM practices. We have the situation today where three PBMs control 80 percent of the market. They use that market leverage to extract significant discounts for manufacturers, but they don't pass those on to patients. The president and bipartisan leadership in Congress have called for addressing that situation.

Frankly, hospitals play the same game. They can buy medicine for as little as a penny, mark up the drug by 1,000 percent. They don't pass those discounts onto patients.

And finally, we need the U.S. government's help, in the context of bilateral trade agreements, to again use the full weight of the U.S. government to make sure that other countries are paying their fair share. It's not unlike the NATO dynamic, where these countries are systematically undervaluing U.S. innovation and American taxpayers have to make up the difference.

BOLDUAN: But on the executive order, I mean, just on its face, the president signed it because he wanted to see drug prices come down here. No matter any cross border comparison that there is, you could -- you could assume that the president had that information at his fingertips when he still signed this executive order. And so, on the face of it, raising prices elsewhere, is that supposed to feel like a win for people in patients here in the United States who still struggle to afford their medicine? UBL: Yes, the three things that I just mentioned a moment ago would

lower costs for consumers in the United States. Again, addressing 50 percent of what we spend on brand medicine today goes to somebody who doesn't make the medicine. So again, if you address these PBM practices, hospital practices, and other countries paying their fair share, it would lower costs for American consumers.

One of the things we're very excited to announce today is a new website, americasmedicines.com, where our companies will connect patients to their direct purchase programs.

[09:00:00]

You mentioned a couple of companies have launched direct purchase programs recently, AstraZeneca and BMS (ph).