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Judge Rips into Trump Over Attempts to Deport Pro-Palestinian Academics; Trump: Government Shutdown Probable Likely at Midnight; Trump Unveils TrumpRx Site for Discounted Drugs. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired September 30, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: As an investigator, you're going to want to look at this stage. There's a concept called leakage in an investigation, which is between the time that he thought about this heinous act, purchasing items, you know, scoping out the church, potentially talking to people about his animus, as we're now reporting, what was leaked by him. I mean, in other words, could there have been an intervention to try to stop this?

I'm not blaming anyone, maybe no one picked up on it, but the combination of access to guns, access to materials that would harm so many people, we've really got to focus on that potential that family members or community members around him may have known.

But this is another one where it just seems the radicalization process is inexplicable. It's not really tied to any politics or any movement, and it's just focused on a church that he had no seeming close relationship or narrative with for a very long time.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Does that seem distinctive to you? I mean, is that raising questions when you are wondering about his service and PTSD? Is that sort of what you're getting at there?

KAYYEM: Yes, I mean, in my field, we think about ranges of loneliness, you know, aloneness. So we think about, OK, you have the terrorist or the person who's going to be violent, who's directed to do something, and then you have the person who might hear something and want to do, you know, want to follow ISIS and harm people. I mean, the world we're in now is a loneness that we're not quite able to capture yet in terms of what is happening.

Everyone wants to blame, like, oh, it's this political party or whatever. It's that. Our leadership should tone down. Our president should tone the language down. But it's also something that we're not quite capturing in terms of this radicalization process.

I talked to someone, a terrorism expert the other day, and she said she's never been more nervous about it because at least with known terrorists or terrorist group like you -- there's places to intervene.

And this is something that we really have to get our heads around as a country and understand that our language, our incitement, our forgiveness of violence breeds, breeds that as well. And so we're all in some ways responsible for trying to minimize these harms.

KEILAR: Yes, it's really a time to ask a lot of questions. Juliette Kayyem, thank you so much.

KAYYEM: Yes.

KEILAR: And up next in a stunning 161-page rebuke, a Reagan-appointed judge rips into President Trump, accusing him of violating the sacred oath of the presidency and leading an assault on free speech.

[15:35:00]

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: This just into CNN. A federal judge today ripping into President Trump over his crackdown on pro-Palestinian protesters. In a stunning 161-page opinion, the Reagan-appointed judge eviscerates the administration's efforts to deport non-citizen professors and students who protested the Israeli government's actions in Gaza.

The judge says the White House's actions not only chilled protected political speech but were meant to strike fear in other non-citizens. CNN's Katelyn Polantz is here tracking the details. So, Katelyn, what more can you tell us about this lengthy opinion?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Lengthy opinion that, my God, I have rarely seen something as jaw-dropping as this from a judge. 161 pages written by Judge Bill Young up in Massachusetts. He has been on the bench for quite a long time, so he's done a lot of this sort of work.

This case, it's about chilling the ability of people to protest Israel or for Palestine on college campuses. And he writes about some of the circumstances that have taken place on college campuses where pro- Palestinian advocates have then been targeted by the administration, had visas revoked, even been arrested or jailed. And he essentially says the administration cannot do that, that people who are non- citizens in the U.S. should be able to have the same free speech protections as citizens.

That's one way to talk about this case, but this opinion is astonishing for a different reason. It is a complete and utter broadside by this sitting federal judge against the president and what this administration has been doing, trying to just curtail the speech, the protest abilities, all kinds of activities by people who are not citizens of the United States in the U.S. currently.

One of the things that he says, he quotes his wife, says he doesn't discuss cases outside of chambers. He quotes his wife about Donald Trump saying he seems to be winning, he ignores everything and keeps bullying ahead. A couple more choice quotations from this judge. He said the president himself approves truly scandalous and unconstitutional suppression of free speech.

And then he writes, I fear President Trump believes the American people are so divided today that they will not stand up, fight for and defend our most precious constitutional values so long as they are lulled into thinking their own personal interests are not affected. Is he correct?

SANCHEZ: Wow.

POLANTZ; Question mark.

[15:40:00]

SANCHEZ: Wow. The judge also did something beyond all that --

POLANTZ: Yes.

SANCHEZ: -- unusual with this filing.

POLANTZ: Another unusual thing. This is where what I would call the mic drop. I don't know if Judge Young would use that. He was appointed to the bench in 1985.

What he writes, though, at the top of this opinion is he clearly his chambers has photocopied a postcard that someone sent him in June.

Handwritten: Trump has pardons and tanks. What do you have?

Before he even starts the opinion, Judge Young puts that at the top of the page, then says, Dear Mr. And Mrs. Anonymous -- Mr. Or Mr. Anonymous -- Alone, I have nothing but my sense of duty. Together we, the people of the United States, you and me have our magnificent Constitution.

Here's how that works out in a specific case, then writes this opinion, his ruling. And then at the end, as he signs it, he signs it. William Young, judge of the United States, not district of Massachusetts, federal district judge, judge of the United States, noting that that's how his predecessor judge in the lead up to civil -- of the Civil War signed opinions.

And he's doing that now in honor of all of his judicial colleagues standing with them. And he then puts a note at the end to the person who apparently sent him that threatening postcard says thanks for writing. It shows you care. You should.

SANCHEZ: Fascinating filing. I imagine the administration will likely appeal this ruling as they have other decisions.

POLANTZ: Sure. And they are absolutely within their right to appeal a ruling of a federal district judge. But Judge Young is I'm sure that they're going to be a lot of people looking very closely at what Judge Young has written here and then also done on the platform that he has.

SANCHEZ: No doubt. Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much for that -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Now to some of the other headlines that we're watching this hour. Prosecutors are seeking more than 11 years in prison for music mogul Sean Diddy Combs over his conviction on prostitution related charges. The sentencing recommendation was filed overnight and it included letters from some of his accusers.

Back in July, a jury acquitted Combs of the most serious charges in his sex trafficking and racketeering trial but convicted him on two lesser counts. Combs' defense has requested a 14 month sentence, which could mean he's released almost immediately considering time served. His sentencing hearing is this Friday.

Also, Ian Roberts, the superintendent of Des Moines Public Schools, who was detained by ICE agents last week, is resigning. His lawyer made the announcement about an hour ago. Homeland security officials say he was in the country illegally and had existing weapons charges.

The Des Moines school board gave him until this afternoon to clarify his immigration status. On Monday, the board decided to put Roberts on unpaid leave after learning the state had revoked his teaching license.

And just moments ago, we learned the Justice Department has opened a civil rights investigation into the school district's employment practices.

And this is the moment that an earthquake shook the stage of the Miss Asia Pacific International pageant in the Philippines. A 6.9 magnitude earthquake hitting the central Philippines around 10 p.m. local time. It was felt by more than a half a million people.

The scope of the destruction is not clear yet, though officials did say that one person has died and many more have been injured.

Up next, if the federal government does shut down, President Trump says Democrats are to blame, but do voters agree? Pollster Frank Luntz joins us next.

[15:45:00]

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KEILAR: President Trump now calls a government shutdown likely as both parties in Congress are really digging in on their demands.

SANCHEZ: Yes, the president is blaming Democrats who say they want changes to healthcare policy before voting for the Republicans funding bill. Let's get some analysis from pollster and communication strategist Frank Luntz. Frank, great to see you.

Who do you think will bear the brunt of this potential shutdown? If the government shuts down, will Democrats or Republicans be blamed?

FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER AND COMMUNICATIONS STRATEGIST: Normally, Congress is blamed. And we've been through this way too many times over the last 10, 12 years. But that's not always certain.

A lot of it depends on what will be said in the next 10 hours and what is said tomorrow and the day after. What is clear is that both sides are not particularly seemingly not that interested in making an agreement. And what I see from my polling and my focus groups is that the American public has had enough of both sides. Had enough of this intransigence and the fact that they can't get something done, particularly now.

So I'd say to you that both sides are going to take the brunt of this, and it's just going to make Americans even more cynical and even more angry at Washington, DC.

KEILAR: One of the kind of concerns or threats that we're hearing from various members of Congress is, you know, the Trump administration could use this to fire federal employees, right? We spoke with Congressman Don Bacon. He said this gives the Trump administration a lot of control to kind of do what they want to do.

But I wonder, Frank, if the administration were to do that, if they take this and then get rid of some federal employees, could that actually backfire? And then maybe people start blaming Trump more than they would have?

LUNTZ: I don't want to answer a hypothetical, but I can tell you this. The one aspect that matters more than any other in a shutdown is whether or not Social Security checks are delivered to recipients. That would make people go nuts if that were to happen.

So it's always the single biggest risk. And the second is if military, if our people, our men and women in uniform are not paid for their service, there would be a level of anger there. In the end, the American people trust Washington less than they have at any point.

[15:50:00]

They're very angry with the country that the president's polling numbers have not been all that great. And yet the Democratic numbers have been even worse. It's basically a plague on both their houses. And it's another example of why Washington doesn't seem to work at the very moment the public is demanding more.

SANCHEZ: When it comes to these ACA subsidies that Democrats are demanding be extended beyond the end of the year, how popular are those subsidies? Would getting rid of them ultimately hurt Republicans even though it's part of the legislation they just passed?

LUNTZ: If that's how it's explained, yes, it would hurt Republicans. Because in the end, the public does not want to pay as much as they have to for their health care. It's one of the areas.

Food, fuel, housing and health care are the four key areas that the public is watching day by day to see how much things cost. And the issue of affordability is no less important now than it was six months ago or a year ago during the elections.

That said, the public does believe that there's waste, abuse, mismanagement and even corruption that happens in Washington, D.C., and that there are ways for the people to pay less and for Washington and for government to cost less. But what you just raised is the key talking point for the Democrats and why they could be successful.

On the Republican side, Donald Trump continues to drive considerable support among his voters. And they have no issue with the government being shut down at all because they believe it's just him exercising his rights.

And they want him to make a difference, a daily difference, in the way Washington functions. In the end, I'm watching independents. I'm watching younger voters.

And probably most important, and I've said this on your show before, Hispanics and Latinos. In the end, where they see the government is going to determine who controls Congress next year, who controls the Senate next year. And those segments have not made a decision yet over who they blame and who they credit for where things stand right now.

KEILAR: So I wonder what you make of this New York Times-Siena College poll, Frank, that shows President Trump's approval rating largely unchanged since April. Yes, but those groups, some of which you just named, that propelled his campaign last year, Hispanic voters, voters under 30, his net approval has dropped significantly. Should he be concerned about that?

LUNTZ: He should be concerned about it, and the Democrats should be concerned because their numbers have dropped even further. When you ask about how well Donald Trump has handled some of these issues, he gets lukewarm, mediocre, sometimes even a little bit negative evaluations. But more impactfully for this election, the Democrats are doing even worse.

So basically, there's disappointment with the White House. There is annoyance with the Democratic opposition. If you ask me who's in a better position, I would say to you that history says the Democrats should win.

But based on where things stand right now, you have to give Republicans the edge, even with a shutdown that could happen tonight.

SANCHEZ: Frank Luntz, thanks so much for that. Appreciate it.

Up next, President Trump announcing a deal with Pfizer to bring down drug prices for some patients in the United States. What you can expect next.

[15:55:00]

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SANCHEZ: President Trump says he just cut a deal with American pharmaceutical giant Pfizer and that Americans could see drug prices drop immediately. CNN medical correspondent Meg Tirrell is here with the specifics.

Meg, talk to us about what we know regarding the deal and TrumpRx.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris. So part of this deal involves a concept that Trump has been talking about since his first term called most favored nations. That's where you look at a bucket of sort of similarly wealthy countries and look at where medicines are priced there and say the U.S. is not going to pay higher drug prices than the lowest price in that similar bucket of countries.

Now they're going to apply this starting with Medicaid enrollees for Pfizer's medicines. And a lot of folks note that people in Medicaid already pay pretty low prices for medicines. Now, another thing that related to this most favored nation clause is Pfizer won't price new drugs higher in the U.S. than that bucket of peer countries. So it'll be interesting to see how that manifests.

But one of the other interesting parts of this deal is this new project called TrumpRx, which essentially is a way for patients to buy drugs directly from manufacturers. This is something that manufacturers have already started to do to a certain extent.

And the White House was talking about certain medications that will be included there. One of them is a rheumatoid arthritis drug called Xeljanz. Now, this is a very expensive medicine before insurance or discounts. It has a list price of more than $6,000 per month. Now, the Trump administration just said there's going to be a 40 percent discount off of that under this new TrumpRx plan.

Well, if you're talking about a 40 percent discount from the list price that patients could be paying directly out of pocket, they're getting down to spending $3,600 a month with that 40 percent discount.

So a lot of the experts I'm talking with today are kind of scratching their heads and saying, how is that really affordable for most American patients?

[16:00:00]

We should also note that as part of this deal, Pfizer will not have tariffs imposed on its medicines for three years as long as they say they continue investing in U.S. manufacturing.

So you're actually seeing quite a positive response to this from the Pfizer side of things, taking some of that pressure off. But still a lot of questions about what this is going to mean for American patients and which other companies we might see deals with next, guys.

SANCHEZ: Yes, the administration is promising that more is on the way. Meg Tirrell, thank you so much for that report.

Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. "THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

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