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Israeli Military Intercepts Flotilla; Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-TX) is Interviewed about the Shutdown; Health Departments Worry over Shutdown Impacts; Pentagon Planning Polygraph Tests; Stacy Davis Gates is Interviewed about ICE Crackdown in Chicago. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 02, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:30:07]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, Israel says it has stopped all but one of the dozens of boats trying to reach Gaza to deliver aid. The move sparked protests in several countries. Greta Thunberg, along with other activists, they were on the flotilla. They have all been detained now by Israel.

Let's get to CNN's senior international correspondent, Ben Wedeman.

Ben, what's the latest on this?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, at about 9:00 p.m. local time, off the coast of Gaza, 70 -- approximately 70 nautical miles, Israeli ships approached the dozens of boats and ships that are participating in this flotilla that set out on the 1st of September.

Now, according to members of the flotilla, some of those Israeli ships rammed boats of the flotilla. Other Israeli vessels fired water cannons. We understand that all but one boat has been intercepted by the Israelis. That's according to both the Israeli foreign ministry, as well as the flotilla itself.

And as you mentioned, of course, Greta Thunberg, who was detained back in June when she was participating in a similar flotilla, she has been detained by the Israelis. But before that, she put out this recorded message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRETA THUNBERG, SWEDISH ACTIVIST: My name is Greta Thunberg. I'm a citizen of Sweden. If you are watching this video, I have been abducted and taken against my will by Israeli forces. Our humanitarian mission was nonviolent and abiding by international law. Please tell my government to demand my and the others immediate release.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEDEMAN: Now, I spoke with Greta just a few days ago, and she told me that her government doesn't like her and she doesn't really expect them to come to her aid. But we understand, for instance, the Italian foreign minister who said that there are 21 Italian nationals, including Italian lawmakers on the flotilla who have been detained. And he said that the Italian embassy is working to make sure that they are not mistreated and that they will be repatriated.

And the Israeli government says that given that today is Yom Kippur, a day when normally in Israel nobody works, nobody does anything, although the Israelis continue to bomb Gaza today, that they will quickly arrange for all of the people who were on the flotilla to be deported.

Now, as a result of this -- this blocking of the flotilla that was trying to reach Gaza, we've seen protests breakout here in Rome. Late last night, more than 10,000 people took to the streets to protest. There's going to be a general strike by transport workers and others. Dock workers have said that they will stop unloading any ship that is bringing munitions to Israel. And we're expecting a huge demonstration here in Rome on Saturday. So, the reaction to Israel stopping this flotilla that was bringing food and medicine to Gaza has been quite angry across Europe and even elsewhere.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Ben Wedeman for us. Ben, thank you very much.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, President Trump announcing just now posting he will meet with the OMB director on even more budget cuts that will target Democrats over the government shutdown. We are in day two of that shutdown. Republican Senator Ted Cruz giving his full support to the president's initial threat of mass firings and cutting funding to Democratic states.

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SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): President Trump is going to use that as an opportunity, not to tell people you're furloughed for a few days, but instead to send pink slips and to get rid of left wing bureaucrats who are imposing left wing priorities that are contrary to President Trump's priorities. I think that is fantastic. And what it's going to do is it's going to cause Democrats in Congress to scream and weep.

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SIDNER: I want to bring in Democratic Congressman Lloyd Doggett of Texas.

I just want to get your comment on what we just saw from President Trump and what we just heard from Senator Cruz wanting Democrats to scream and weep over having things cut that were -- will, obviously, hurt your own constituents.

REP. LLOYD DOGGETT (D-TX): Well, I think the people that are going to scream will -- are those who get a notice this -- next few days that their premiums are going up, doubling, maybe 75 percent, so that they're denied access to a family physician. That's what this has all been about. The Republicans control every aspect of our government. They control the shutdown. The question now is whether they will prolong the shutdown or begin a sit down to discuss how to resolve the crisis that they are creating for so many American families with their health care.

[08:35:02]

This is, as far as I'm concerned, a matter of life and death. Estimates have come out from a number of well-regarded sources, like the University of Pennsylvania, that the Republican cuts will cost 51,000 deaths per year as a result of people not being able to access health care. Nor is this a new discussion. We have been discussing health care ever since I offered the amendment myself to the big ugly bill to protect health care.

As to the president's threats, how they're going to have mass layoffs, and Ted Cruz's posting of the same kind of racist trope that the president used against Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer with his artificial intelligence. And his intelligence in all this has been very artificial.

But as to this threat of additional firings, one begins to wonder, how is this any different than what they were doing before? I thought Elon Musk was out there eliminating all the ultra-left-wing bureaucrats that don't exist. His effort probably cost the taxpayers more than it ever saved.

But I think these are threats where what we really need is a sit down for negotiations to find a resolution, if not now, when, to solve the problems that American families face on health care.

SIDNER: I want to get your take on what you're hearing from -- from some of your fellow Democrats and, you know, and an independent, three of whom voted for the Republican bill, voted to go ahead and fund the government. And I want you to listen to their reasoning.

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SEN. CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO (D-NV): I don't see actually engaging in a shutdown that's going to harm people to help people. Our goal should be to help everyone.

SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): The irony, the paradox is, by shutting the government, we're actually giving Donald Trump more power. And that was why I voted yes. I did not want to hand Donald Trump and Russell Vought and Stephen Miller additional power to decimate the federal government, to decimate -- to decimate the programs that are so important to so many people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: How do you respond to the two points that were made there? Your colleague saying, look, we're going to hurt people to help people, and I don't think that's the right thing to do. And you've got another colleague saying, look, we're playing right into Trump's hands. How do you see it?

DOGGETT: Well, I respect those views, but I respectfully disagree with them because, as I said, I don't see this as being significantly different than what they were doing before the shutdown ever happened. They have been going after federal employees, public servants, in a most disrespectful way that hurts us in the delivery of services. Apparently, they plan to continue. And this is because we have a president who has no check and balance, no restraint from Republicans who just ask how high when he asks them to jump and do some of these horrible things.

I think the only way we can restrain this president is with Democrats who are willing to stand firm and insist that we protect healthcare and try to reach an agreement that's actually enforceable. That's the problem with a president who is so untrustworthy. His previous recissions (ph) have been to Republican-approved bills where he's gone in and either refused to spend the money or has cut the funds for a wide range of projects.

Yesterday's announcements from Russell Vought, his henchmen for doing these cuts, is clearly targeted at New York to respond to our leaders and to continue cutting clean energy projects, which will only raise our electric bills over time. Things that they were going to do anyway with clean energy.

So, today is the time to begin the process of organizing a sit down for discussion to end the shutdown and get the relief that we need. If we end the shutdown without some relief, that relief will not come. There's been no justification for why this negotiation is not beginning now, other than them saying, as they have for the last six months, that they are not ready to attend to health care. I believe we need to act.

SIDNER: I'm -- I'm curious what you are concerned about because you have talked about your concerns about airports and what is happening with, you know, with travel and the shortages that we're seeing there that are extreme. We just saw an incident here in New York where a plane slide -- slid into another plane, hitting another plane, and we've got this air traffic controller shortage. Are you concerned that this shutdown is going to make that much, much worse?

DOGGETT: Well, I'm concerned about the fact that the Trump administration here in my hometown of Austin, where we've had six near catastrophes, not dissimilar from what happened in New York, though the planes did not actually touch, they came within a few hundred yards of each other, that they have not responded. And we have less than half of the air traffic controllers that we are told we need here in Austin.

[08:40:05]

And it's only gotten worse since the Trump administration came into power. They have already furloughed, with this shutdown, Republican shutdown, thousands of FAA employees that play a role, not -- they're not air traffic controllers, but they play a role in the overall operations of the FAA. I am concerned about all that. The unresponsiveness we've had and the fact that it continues through this shutdown. The longer the shutdown goes on, the greater the danger is. That's why I want action now.

And I just have to add, Sara, that as important as this shutdown is, equally or more important happening the same day was President Trump pulling in from the Air Force and all of our military leaders, 800 from around the world, to tell them that their focus should be on the enemy within and that they use American cities as training grounds for the military. This is the kind of action that someone who aspires to be a dictator takes. And I'm very troubled by that action, what it represents. And it goes hand in hand with the shutdown. That when you give all the power to one person, exercise no restraint, express, as you indicated in an earlier segment this morning, that a few people, Republicans from New York, are expressing concerns. They may have concerns, but they don't indicate any votes to put a stop to this nonsense. And we can't keep giving Trump more and more power and not stand up to him. And that's what we're trying to do with our position here.

SIDNER: All right, Congressman Lloyd Doggett, thank you so much. I do appreciate you coming on this morning.

John.

BERMAN: All right, new this morning, many state and local health departments now say they're bracing for the impacts of the shutdown. Some departments warn that staffing, disease outbreak response and vaccine rollout plans all under threat.

CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard joins us now with the latest on this.

Jacqueline, what are you learning?

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: John, I'm hearing from many state and local health departments who say they're very concerned about the. Impacts this will have on the safety and health of their communities. They're worried about how this will impact their funding, their resources.

But their biggest concern, John, is if they have a disease outbreak that they need to respond to or if they have questions about their support, and they call the CDC for help, who will be there to answer that call? Because with the shutdown, we know the CDC plans to retain only about 36 percent of its staff and staff at the agency for toxic substances and disease registry. And the Department of Health and Human Services told me this will have impacts at the local level. The HHS says in a statement, quote, "state and local health partners, along with the public, should expect delays in CDC's ability to identify and respond to outbreaks."

Specifically, John, they say, "CDC will maintain minimal capacity to respond to disease threats or critical needs."

And another concern that I'm hearing from at least two states so far, Washington state and Georgia. They say the shutdown will impact their WIC programs. That's the food and nutrition assistance programs for low income women, infants and young children. In Washington state, they said that they're going to have to lay off or reduce working hours for some of their employees. And most of those employees, John, work in the office that provides WIC services.

So, these are just some of the real-world impacts that we're seeing right now. And these may continue as the shutdown goes on.

John.

BERMAN: Yes, a lot of concern about what happens to those WIC programs around the country.

HOWARD: Yes.

BERMAN: Jacqueline Howard, thank you very much for that.

New this morning, Walmart announced it will remove artificial dyes and 30 other additives from its store brand foods and beverage products. The change, which will include its Great Value and Marketside products, will be in effect by 2027. It's the latest corporate move in response to a years' long crackdown on food additives. Major food companies, including Kraft Heinz, General Mills and PepsiCo have similarly pledged to remove artificial dyes by 2027.

Random lie detector tests. Mandatory non-disclosure agreements. What is reportedly happening at the Pentagon?

And students dug out from under the rubble days after a catastrophic school collapse. There is fear others might be running out of time.

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[08:48:33]

BERMAN: All right, new this morning, "The Washington Post" reports that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is implementing plans inside the Pentagon to impose strict nondisclosure agreements and random polygraph testing for thousands of officials. CNN first reported on the random polygraph testing plans earlier.

With us now, CNN military analyst, retired Air Force colonel, Cedric Leighton.

Cedric, great to see you.

You worked inside the Pentagon. You know leaking classified information, if you get caught, gets you in big, big trouble. It's illegal already. So, your reaction to these reported plans.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, that's exactly right, John. Good morning to you.

There is basically a rule that's already in place. You sign what amounts to a nondisclosure agreement when you get access to classified information, when you're granted that access. And as part of that agreement, you are subject to polygraphs. Usually they're random polygraphs. Sometimes the polygraphs are for specific programs. So, if it's an especially compartmented program, they may polygraph people before they grant access to that specific program. And there are different kinds of polygraphs. But in this particular case, it looks like they're adding an extra layer of polygraphs and an NDA designed to go specifically at the possibility of somebody leaking information to the press, which is different, of course, from a counter-espionage type situation.

BERMAN: So, how do you read, then, this policy and the point -- and I think it is worth noting that -- that Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth has come under all kinds of criticism for, a, being the guy who -- who put out war plans on a unclassified Signal chat, or, you know, military planning, I guess the word "war plan" has become loaded there.

[08:50:20]

And also, all the reports of sort of dysfunction within the senior ranks of the Pentagon.

LEIGHTON: Yes. So, the dysfunction part, you know, clearly indicates that there's something going on here. There have been so many reports that, you know, indicate that Secretary Hegseth is really not exercising the kind of control or getting the kind of respect that he thinks he deserves. So, in that particular case, what does he do? He exerts power. And this is one way in which he can, he feels, can exert power by imposing this extra NDA and the possibility of polygraphs for everybody.

So, it's, you know, it can very much be a bit of a dangerous, slippery slope for everybody involved because sometimes these polygraphs are not accurate, and there are certain people that don't do well with polygraphs at all.

BERMAN: All right, it's good to have you here as an Air Force guy to ask you about new reporting in "The Wall Street Journal" that says that the U.S. will provide intelligence for missile strikes deep inside Russia, helping out Ukraine here. Let me just read this. "The U.S. will provide Ukraine with intelligence for long-range missile strikes on Russia's infrastructure, energy infrastructure. The Trump administration is weighing sending Kyiv powerful weapons that could put in range more targets within Russia."

How important is this?

LEIGHTON: This is critical because the Ukrainians have asked, John, for a long time to have the ability with U.S. supplied weapons to go deep inside Russia. They've done some of this with their own in-house type weapons, the ones that they've built themselves. And they've been somewhat successful in doing that. Plus, of course, we remember Operation Spider Web, where the drones came out of trucks that had been deployed unwittingly throughout Russia. And that's the kind of thing that the Ukrainians are very good at. They're good at asymmetric warfare, but they also want to have the capability to use the U.S. weapons that have been delivered to them, and that might be delivered to them in the future. And here we're talking about the possibility of tomahawk missiles or similar missiles that could extend the range of what the Ukrainians can do. And that puts places like Moscow at risk. But it also puts a lot of the infrastructure, the energy infrastructure, at risk.

And in essence, what this means is that the Ukrainians are following up the initial successes that they've had by attacking the Russian petrochemical industry, by doing it much deeper into the Russian territory. And that, of course, could have a significant impact on the Russian war effort.

BERMAN: Yes. Colonel Cedric Leighton, next time we talk about this, we'll get maps so people can see the range that we're talking about here. As soon as you start talking about tomahawks and the weapons being discussed here, you put almost everything in play, or a lot more in play inside Russia. So, depending on the -- the free rein that Ukraine has, it could totally change the outlook there.

All right, Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you very much for that.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, authorities say there are no signs of life in what's left of a collapsed school in Indonesia. At least five people were killed, but dozens more are still missing. Hundreds of students were in the building when it fell on Monday. Yesterday, five students were pulled from the rubble alive.

Houston residents returning home in the middle of a crime scene. They came face to face with suspects actively robbing their home. Surveillance video you're seeing there shows the suspects walking into the apartment and taking items, including a TV. The residents were then assaulted as they left. Here's a closer look at the men. Houston police hope the public will recognize them. As of this morning, they are still on the run.

And a three-year-old finding a live hand grenade in his family's front yard. The Grant County Sheriff's Office in Washington state says the toddler handed it over to his parents. They called 911, and a bomb squad determined the grenade was actually live. They were able to safely dispose of it, thank goodness. Authorities say the grenade was the kind used in World War II. As far as how the heck did it get there? Nobody knows the answer to that one just yet.

All right, Chicago teachers are taking a stand as President Trump threatens to cut funding for cities that refuse to make policy changes. Chicago will lose millions in federal funding this year due to a dispute over how the district serves black and transgender students. Last month, the president shelved plans to deploy the National Guard troops to target crime in Chicago, but the administration has deployed federal agents to ramp up deportations of undocumented immigrants.

[08:55:03]

Joining me now is Stacy Davis Gates, president of the Chicago Teachers Union.

Stacy, Chicago teachers, schools and teachers, have sent out information to families advising them of their rights because of this ramp up of sending in more members of ICE. What kind of impact are you seeing in schools?

STACY DAVIS GATES, PRESIDENT, CHICAGO TEACHERS UNION: Well, the impact is dramatic. We are seeing attendance rates drop. We are seeing parents and family members detained after they drop their young people off at school. We are seeing ICE agents stage their productions in our parking lots, in our school communities, before school starts. It is utter chaos.

SIDNER: You've talked about, you know, utter chaos and the -- the huge fears that parents and students now have. But you've also said that Chicago schools should pivot to -- to remote learning, to fight back against ICE. And -- but studies, though, have shown that remote learning really does hurt students' ability to -- ability to learn. I mean, wouldn't that end up hurting more students than it helps? Are you still thinking that remote learning is the right thing to do here?

GATES: Studies also show having troops drop out of helicopters on top of your roof before the start of a school day is also quite traumatic and harmful. We are living in unprecedented times, and we're going to need unprecedented solutions. The first thing is to protect young people. Our educators are working hard every day to contextualize this madness, to walk children inside the building, walking children home, doing sidewalk solidarity, making sure that families and our neighbors know their rights. They are creating sanctuary and safety teams inside of their school communities. We are doing everything we can to make our schools as safe as possible. Again, this is monstrous.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about a counterpoint that has been made here by some Chicagoans. The influx of immigrants to Chicago has sparked some -- some backlash by some in several different communities, including the black community, where we're seeing some residents say things like this that we're seeing in a publication in Chicago that covers issues important to the African American community. "The Tribe", quoting a professor saying, "when droves of migrants arrive in Chicago and were provided resources, such as housing, many black residents saw that act as the new arrivals jumping in front of the decades long line for basic needs."

Do you hear that point of view? Do you understand and empathize with it at all?

GATES: The point of view that we're hearing now from many black residents in Chicago is quite different, especially since yesterday they were on the west side of the city choking out black men on the side of the road. Especially since they raided an apartment building full of black families, zip tying their children, zip tying residents without warrants, without an understanding.

We knew always that the Chicago Teachers Union, that when an unlawful force invades a city, that they were not going to leave black people behind in this tyranny. And that's what we're experiencing at this point. It is very sad.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you, just go back to the remote learning, because I was -- as I was thinking through this, do you have some support for -- for people in the schools and the school board, that support the idea of remote learning, of taking kids back to the homes as, you know, ICE and other federal agencies ramp up their work there?

GATES: a couples of things. We have a lot of support on the school board in Chicago Public Schools and with our mayor to figure out how to keep our young people safe and learning in school communities. That is key and critical to how we get over this point.

Also, what we've seen with our counterparts in Los Angeles is that they created the infrastructure and made the offer to families. They have seen an uptick of families choosing that option. That may be something that we do here in Chicago. But again, this is unprecedented. The best thing that is happening in Chicago at this point is the solidarity that we have amongst all residents in this city who have repudiated this unlawful occupation. We do not need ICE here. We do not need DHS here. We do need our schools fully funded. We do need increased protections for our queer and trans students. We do need our black students to have more than what we had before.

[08:59:58]

There are ways in which the federal government can engage in Chicago by restoring staff benefits and funding Medicaid and Medicare, not this tyranny.