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Shutdown Expected to Stretch into Next Week; Israel Says It Halted Almost All Vessels Trying to Reach Gaza; Meta Plans to Use AI Chatbot Conversations to Target Ads; Trump Official on ICE at Super Bowl: Enforcement Everywhere. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 02, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: ... and respond to outbreaks. Specifically, CDC will maintain minimal capacity to respond to an urgent disease threat or other critical need in areas, including food safety, healthcare quality, and patient safety, vector-borne disease, and high-consequence pathogens, end quote.

Examples of disease outbreaks could be if there's a measles outbreak or mpox. And another concern, at least two states have told me this so far, Washington State and Georgia. They told me that their WIC programs are now at risk. That's the Food and Nutrition Support Program for low-income women, infants, and young children.

In Washington State, they have to temporarily lay off or reduce work hours for some employees, and most of them are in the office that oversees the WIC program in that state.

Now, these are just some of the real-world examples of how the government shutdown is impacting state and local health departments right now, and they say they are worried about what may be in the future if the shutdown continues.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Our thanks to Jacqueline Howard for that report -- Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The government shutdown is now expected to stretch into next week. Senate Democrats have signaled they'll again block a GOP-backed funding bill tomorrow, and no votes are scheduled over the weekend. Looking back at past shutdowns, recent history shows Republicans have often linked first.

The 2018 shutdown during the first Trump administration was the longest in American history.

Larry Sabato is the director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. He's out with a new book called Campaign of Chaos, Trump, Biden, Harris, and the 2024 American election.

And I think the heart of this, Larry, is going to be how do Americans feel about this, and The Washington Post has a poll out that shows something I'm sure everyone here in Washington is looking at, even as some Republicans are dismissing the outcome, and that is that President Trump and Republicans are suffering significantly more blame than Democrats. How are you reading this, even as so many people are not sure about how they feel about the shutdown?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Yes, the not sure percentage will fall as people begin to recognize the real-life consequences of the shutdown. And they may recognize it because of something happening in their own life or their family's life or their neighbor's life, or they may get it through television because eventually television reporting will get to the anger and upset of TSA agents and air traffic controllers, and the troops will not be receiving pay, and probably every single segment will end with, and of course the members of Congress are being paid during the shutdown.

Nothing makes people angrier than that combination. Now, whether it helps one side or the other, the problem is both sides think they're winning. Certainly the polls suggest the Democrats are, but the Republicans are more interested in what they're going to be doing during the shutdown, which is cutting government further, which pleases the MAGA base enormously.

KEILAR: It might energize them. I also wonder how you think the messaging here is, because polls also show that these Obamacare subsidies that Democrats are making the issue on the shutdown are incredibly popular, and yet I've spoken with some congressional Democrats who will admit they don't think the messaging in their party is quite as good as it could be. You and I have talked about that before.

What do you think?

SABATO: I think people who say the Democrats' messaging isn't as sharp as it could be are absolutely correct, and there's no great surprise there. Remember, not only do the Republicans control the White House, that means they control all the cabinet officers and all the department heads, and they control the House and they control the Senate, and those are people who have multiplier effects for the messaging. They can go on just about everywhere.

They did yesterday. They covered the field. Democrats didn't have as many spokespeople, and they tended to use a handful of people over and over who, with all due respect to them, may not be the best messengers.

So Republicans have an advantage there, but in the end, the message matters less than the reality. If the reality is hurting millions of Americans and they're recognizing it because they're not getting a paycheck or somebody in their family is not getting a paycheck, if they go to the store and they still see prices rising, all of these things come together in a way that can help a party that may be low on the messaging front.

KEILAR: So over the course of previous somewhat recent shutdowns, we have heard Democrats say that shutdowns are really bad, right?

[14:35:00] And they've outlined all of the reasons, and we do know that shutdowns are bad. We look at all the services that get held up. We look at the cost to the economy.

But now, as there are Democratic votes in the Senate that are the obstacle to that 60-vote threshold, and you look at these poll numbers where their voters are kind of, it seems OK with the shutdown, how are you understanding that, that they're now kind of OK with the shutdown?

SABATO: Well, I think most voters are shocked, shocked to find that hypocrisy is the lifeblood of politics. And it is on both sides. There's hypocrisy, ample hypocrisy with both the Republicans and the Democrats.

Again, I don't think that matters as much as the real-life consequences, and eventually people will realize it. Obviously, they don't realize it in the first few days of a shutdown. They may not even recognize it in the first couple of weeks of a shutdown.

But if this is like Trump's shutdown in his first term, which stretched over 35 days, I guarantee you, millions and millions and millions of people will feel more strongly and be more aware of what's happening in the shutdown.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly. We're looking towards October 15th, right? That's the next paycheck for military.

There are going to be a number of other data points that are going to start registering for Americans. With that in mind, how long do you think this could last?

SABATO: I think if the governing administration, the Republicans, are wise, they won't let this go on as long as the first one did with Trump, because the longer it goes on, I think the anger will probably grow for the Republicans and the Democrats, but more for the Republicans than the Democrats.

The Democrats, look, if they cave, and they might in the Senate, because the Republicans only need, you know, seven votes or maybe eight, depending on if they lose one of their own members in the vote, that's a handful, and they've already got probably two or three Democrats who are willing to do that. They could keep grinding on some of the more vulnerable members, and also the ones who are retiring in 2026.

And if you put those together, it's possible they would get the votes that way. I'm sure, though, that rank-and-file Democrats would be very, very angry if that happened.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly. We'll be watching the Senate very carefully. There aren't that many votes they have to peel off.

Larry Sabato, always great to talk with you. Thank you.

SABATO: Thanks, Brianna. KEILAR: Dozens of aid boats on their way to Gaza intercepted by the Israeli military. It's a move sparking protests in cities across the world. We'll have that next.

[14:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Dozens of boats headed towards Gaza carrying much-needed aid have been intercepted by Israel. The Israeli foreign ministry says one last ship remains at a distance, but warned that it, too, will be stopped if it tries to enter the combat zone. The flotilla organizers are calling this an illegal attack.

Passengers, including climate activist Greta Thunberg, have been detained. CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is following these developments. Ben, what more do we know about how this unfolded?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, we understand that at around 9 p.m. local time yesterday, about 70 nautical miles off the coast of Gaza, that Israeli naval vessels intercepted many of the ships and boats that were part of this flotilla, which contained around 44 boats and ships, as far as the latest count goes, which had on board around 500 activists.

Now, according to the activists, the Israelis rammed some of the boats, fired water cannons, then boarded many of these boats and ships and detained the activists. They were taken to the Israeli port of Ashdod, where they were being processed.

The last we heard, there are reports that they were given access to lawyers after a delay, and the Israelis say that these activists, including Greta Thunberg, will be deported.

Now, the Israelis have said that the food and medicine and other supplies that the activists were bringing will be at some point transported to Gaza. The Israelis beforehand had said that the activists should not come near Gaza, that it would be better if they docked in a third country, and that they suggested, for instance, the Catholic Church could take those supplies to Gaza.

But the activists said that no, that they want to exercise their right as humanitarians to take those supplies directly to Gaza. So it appears that this drama has come to an end, but we understand there are other flotillas either already on their way or preparing to depart for Gaza-- Brianna.

KEILAR: There's international reaction to this, Ben. Tell us about this.

WEDEMAN: Well, the reaction, particularly here in Europe, has been very strong.

[14:45:00] For instance, here in Italy last night, the news that the flotilla had been intercepted, it was 10 p.m. local time, and we understand from the police that as many as 10,000 people took to the streets, surrounded Termini, which is the main train and metro station here in Rome that had to be cordoned off by the police.

Now, there's been a general strike called to begin this evening. Transportation workers, dock workers, say they will no longer service any ship connected in any way with the war in Israel. And on Saturday, there's going to be a massive demonstration.

Now, this comes at a time when, for instance, just a few weeks ago, a public opinion poll was published that said that more than 70 percent of Italians believe that Israel's war in Gaza amounts to genocide, more than almost 60 percent saying that they want Italy to cut ties with Israel. So this really does represent mounting European anger, and beyond Europe as well, about Israel's war in Gaza -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Ben Wedeman, live for us from Rome. Thank you -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Now to some of the other headlines we're watching this hour. The White House has sent a letter to nine major colleges and universities outlining a list of demands they must meet in return for expanded access to federal funding. The demands include removing factors like sex and ethnicity from admissions considerations.

The compact, first reported on by the Wall Street Journal, also calls for a commitment to great integrity and a mandatory five-year freeze on tuition costs.

Also, Russian leader Vladimir Putin is dismissing President Trump's claim that Russia is a paper tiger. Trump, in his comment, asserted the conflict with Ukraine was costing Moscow significant funds and making it hard to get gasoline.

Today, Putin responded, saying that his country has shown over centuries that it would respond quickly if provoked. He also took aim at NATO, saying that all the NATO countries are fighting with us.

And a federal judge has thrown out a lawsuit over the naked baby on one of the most famous covers in music history. This, of course, is Nirvana's Nevermind. The man who was pictured swimming underwater accused the band of distributing child pornography by using this photo. The judge found that no reasonable jury would consider this pornographic.

This is the second time that Spencer Eldon has sued the group over the image -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Tech company Meta says it will soon begin using conversations that Facebook and Instagram users have with the platform's AI chatbot to target them with personalized ads. CNN tech reporter Clare Duffy explains how this works.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: Yes, Meta says that there are now 1 billion people monthly using its Meta AI chatbot. You can access the chatbot from Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, and also a standalone Meta AI app. And the company now wants to use what people are telling the chatbot in order to target them with more personalized ads and make content recommendations across its platforms.

Users will start to see notification of this next week and it will go into effect on December 16th. And I think it's really important for people to understand what a significant evolution this is in terms of how Meta operates. Because we know, we all know, how good Meta is at targeting us with ads, at predicting what we're going to want to buy, perhaps even before we know it ourselves.

But the way they've done that is to look at signals like who we're connected to, what we're posting and clicking on, and infer from that data what people might like to buy. Now, it will be able to use what people are telling its chatbot directly, like the trip that you're planning or the problem that you're having that a product could potentially solve. Use that information to target us with ads.

Now, the company says there are certain topics of conversation that it won't use for ad targeting, things like religious views, sexual orientation, political views, and health. And the company also says that users can go into their ad settings and remove topics that the company thinks they might want to be targeted with ads for. But this information could end up being hugely valuable to Meta as it continues to try to get better at selling us things.

Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Hugely valuable. Our thanks to Clare Duffy for that report.

And still ahead, fresh criticism to Bad Bunny, headlining the Super Bowl halftime show, this time from inside the White House.

We'll have that next.

[14:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Now to the latest Bad Bunny backlash. Some supporters of President Trump have criticized the NFL's decision to have the Puerto Rican superstar headline the Super Bowl halftime show. Remember, Bad Bunny has been critical of President Trump and the immigration crackdown in the past, notably saying that he did not tour in the United States recently, partly for fear that ICE would raid his concert venues.

Yesterday, an advisor to Homeland Security, Corey Lewandowski, was asked on The Benny Show about the artist and whether ICE would be at the Super Bowl. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, CHIEF ADVISER FOR DHS SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: There is nowhere that you can provide safe haven to people who are in this country illegally. Not the Super Bowl and nowhere else. We will find you.

If there are illegal aliens, I don't care if it's a concert for Johnny Smith or Bad Bunny or anybody else, we're going to do enforcement everywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's talk about this with Sabrina Rodriguez, national politics reporter at The Washington Post, also the Duchess of Hialeah, Florida. I'm still working on getting that added to the title. And Adrian Carrasquillo, who is with the National Immigration Newsletter at The Bulwark, also a self-described Bad Bunny scholar.

On that note, Adrian, the Super Bowl halftime show, obviously the biggest stage for American audiences. So having this artist on that stage at a consequential time for Latinos in this country, it feels like this is going to transcend entertainment.

[14:55:00]

ADRAIN CARRASQUILLO, NATIONAL IMMIGRATION NEWSLETTER, THE BULWARK: Yes, a smart person told me that his existence is resistance. And, you know, look, I think in speaking to people yesterday, this is going to be the first Latino male artist headliner. This is going to be an all Spanish show.

Just for the MAGA folks who are upset, he does have songs where he speaks in English and where the title is in English, Where She Goes, that he did in his album last year. But, you know, look, I mean, I think he is always thinking, I sort of call him not just like this really important sort of monumental artist, but he's kind of like one of the best executive producers. He's always thinking about what the show is going to look like.

So I just know, somebody told me today, because I wrote a story for my newsletter, Huddled Masses, about Bad Bunny for Friday. And somebody told me it's going to be 15 minutes of Puerto Rican excellence. And so I just think that like that piece of it is misunderstood.

And of course he has had so much criticism about ICE, and I think he's going to get into that as well.

SANCHEZ: Sabrina, you've written about the backlash for the Post this week. This was before the comments from Lewandowski. I want to note, he also said that it's quote, shameful that the NFL decided to pick someone who just seems to hate America so much to represent them.

What do you make of those comments, the rest of the backlash that you're seeing?

SABRINA RODRIGUEZ, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: I mean, I think it builds on the criticism we've seen since the announcement was made on late Sunday night. I mean, if we're talking from a business standpoint, we're talking about one of the most streamed artists in the world. We're talking about a performer, Bad Bunny, who just finished a 31 sold out show residency in Puerto Rico.

We're talking about a man who had generated $700 million for Puerto Rico with this tour. So that's some context that I think a lot of the folks on Twitter have been critical of Bad Bunny, don't really know about Bad Bunny. We're talking about the NFL as a business and Bad Bunny being someone who's going to bring a lot of eyes to this show.

But the criticism that we're seeing that Corey Lewandowski, you know, brought up yesterday as well, you know, folks are frustrated because one, they say Bad Bunny speaks, you know, oh, it's all in Spanish. Why is that? Well, we're going to see.

There's been criticism about his gender fluid fashion choices. There's been critics as Adrian mentioned about, you know, the comments that he made about not touring in the U.S. because of the ICE concerns. He supported Kamala Harris last year.

So we're seeing an extension of that, but I think something interesting that we should be keeping an eye out on is the fact that the president himself who is known to speak out very vocally and frequently on Truth Social has not said anything about this.

SANCHEZ: And who hasn't been shy about talking about the NFL. Remember during his first administration, specifically Colin Kaepernick and kneeling during the anthem for the NFL. As you said, this is largely a business decision.

Bad Bunny's the first artist to hit 7 billion streams on one album on Spotify. They're trying to expand globally. So they're trying to reach viewers that don't necessarily watch the NFL on a regular basis overseas. Bad Bunny would be a great ambassador for that.

But do you think that they anticipated this kind of anger from folks that I think are more usually understood to be NFL viewers?

RODRIGUEZ: I think the NFL, you know, the NFL and Rock Nation, Jay-Z's company which has, you know, is involved in producing the show. They have not come out and spoken about the backlash. I think of course at a time like this in our country when there's such a focus on Trump's immigration agenda, when we're seeing, you know, the videos of the deportations that are taking place and that's such a focal point in politics right now.

It's hard to imagine that they didn't know that there would be some backlash. But I think the question will be, you know, we're just a couple days into it. How far does this extend?

Are we going to hear folks in the Trump administration speaking out more vocally about it? Are we going to hear the president himself talk about it? And I think it's a real open question right now because we've seen, as you mentioned, Trump had a very tense relationship with the NFL in his first administration. And over the years as a businessman had his own tensions with the NFL. But we have seen in recent years that he has had a stronger relationship with them. He was the first sitting president to attend the Super Bowl this past year.

And you know, he's even talked about how they're hosting the NFL draft here in DC. So I think there's a real question about is he going to want to? And I think there's real questions as a journalist of why he hasn't said anything till now.

Is he aware of what a good business decision this is?

SANCHEZ: Adrian, what do you think?

CARRASQUILLO: I think that one thing we have to keep in mind is that we act like these are the first Super Bowls, the first presidential elections ever. Shakira and J-Lo did a performance during Trump's term in 2020, and they had kids in cages. And the NFL in Shakira's, excuse me, in Jennifer Lopez documentary, the NFL pushed back and did not want it.

And J-Lo said that she basically told her team, we're doing this, we're forging ahead. And let's also just take a moment to like step back. ICE outside the Super Bowl, what sense does that make?

This is like the most security at an event. We've been to Super Bowls before. So again, you know, I think part of this is that the politics might work for both sides, right?

I could see Trump speaking up as we get closer to the Super Bowl or afterwards saying that it was some despicable performance. But of course, I think this is going to be one ...

END