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FEMA Halts Preparedness Grants; Rob Sheffield is Interviewed about the Swift Album. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired October 03, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

LORI CHAVEZ-DEREMER, LABOR SECRETARY: The markets do depend on this information. And every single month, since I've been on the job, we have released the information and worked with BLS. We need that government open. And I would ask Senator Warren, open this government. Let's get these reports out, because the markets depend on it. The American economy depends on it. So, we're looking forward to, after this government is open, for this report to come out.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Do you know what the data says?

CHAVEZ-DEREMER: I don't know what the data says. We always get the reports just prior. So, I haven't seen those data reports now. We've only seen the private sector. ADP, I think, came out a couple of days ago with their numbers. And -- but, yes, usually we get the reports the day before, and I haven't seen that for this month.

BERMAN: OK. I mean -- and the private sector jobs from ADP, not great, right? And if you look at the employment reports going back to the spring here, not great either. I mean, you know, May was 19,000 jobs. June, 13,00 jobs, July 76,000 jobs, August 22,000 jobs. Pretty slow growth there. Why are jobs lagging?

CHAVEZ-DEREMER: Well, certainly what we inherited from the Biden administration, we have been working hard in this administration, with the president, putting the American worker first. I mean that's one of the reasons, John, that I've been out on the road talking to the American workforce, really trying to understand what the needs are. And we've seen the growth in all under indicators. We see that GDP is up. We see that real wages are up. We've seen the blue collar boom.

And what we -- I'm also seeing on the ground is a lot of these companies are investing in their workforce, trillions of dollars. So, we're working hard to get the dollars to our respective states.

You know, John, the Department of Labor just released $86 million to 14 different states to train the workforce for our welders, for our machinists, for our electricians. We know that we have to grow this economy to build these manufacturing sites. So, I've been doing everything I can. But with this government shutdown, it puts everything at a screeching halt.

BERMAN: You said -- CHAVEZ-DEREMER: My goal, 1 million active apprentices across this country now is on hold. And that's just something that slows the momentum to grow this economy that we've been working so hard for, to grow those jobs numbers.

BERMAN: Yes, look, you said that there's momentum, but construction jobs opening fell in August by the second most in history. The hiring rate, the lowest since 2013 outside of Covid. Private sector payrolls plunged in September, as we just said there.

Again, and that's all over the last few months, six months into the Trump administration. Why is it heading in the wrong direction?

CHAVEZ-DEREMER: Well, again, all indicators, we have the strongest economy in the world. What we inherited from the Biden administration, we have all of those divisions.

BERMAN: Jobs economy? Do we have the strongest -- do we have the strongest -- do we have the strongest jobs economy in the world? Do we have the strongest jobs economy compared to last year when there were hundreds of thousands of jobs added each month?

CHAVEZ-DEREMER: Absolutely, because we saw those revisions under the Biden administration. That's why this president has called on the modernization and streamlining of BLS, to understand that we need modern information. We need to have accurate information. That's what the American people are asking for.

Listen, John, I'm going to keep leaning in on this economy because we are seeing, you know, with interest rates have gone down. We want people to spend more of their hard earned dollars. And with this shutdown, Americans aren't going to be able to spend their hard earned dollars because they're not going to receive a paycheck. And that's unfortunate that we're stopping that. The Democrats need to step up.

You know, I know you know this. I'm a former member of Congress.

BERMAN: Sure.

CHAVEZ-DEREMER: When I was there, from 2023 to 2024, I voted personally five times to keep the government open. Why? Because it only hurts the American people. And I know that these Senate Democrats understand that. A clean CR to get the rest of the appropriations done is important.

BERMAN: Let me --

CHAVEZ-DEREMER: And this president has said he didn't shut this government down. It's the Senate Democrats who have done that.

BERMAN: Let me just --

CHAVEZ-DEREMER: And it's frustrating to me as to why they would choose to hurt the American people.

BERMAN: Let me just ask you, again, you are -- you are the labor secretary and your business is jobs.

CHAVEZ-DEREMER: Yes.

BERMAN: How do you feel about the fact that -- that some of your colleagues and some people in the Trump White House are basically bragging and celebrating that they will cut jobs as a result of the shutdown?

CHAVEZ-DEREMER: Listen, again, the Republicans didn't shut this government down. They voted for this clean CR.

BERMAN: But they're bragging about it. But they're releasing -- but they are releasing the video of Russ Vought as the grim reaper, talking about how he's going to go slashing jobs and slashing programs. So, they do seem to be celebrating it, right?

CHAVEZ-DEREMER: Absolutely not. There are so many essential jobs that we need in this government to serve the American population. Listen, in the Labor Department, when I'm talking about wage and hour, when people need to call the Department of Labor for unemployment insurance, to be able to go and get the services that they deserve, we need those workers on the ground. And this is just holding that up.

There is going to be tough decisions that have to be made every day that this happens. So, I'm hoping that my former colleagues get the job done and pass this CR today. The longer it stays shut down, the more the American people are hurt. They have it on their shoulders, you know, and for what?

[09:35:02]

For what reason? That they want to offer illegal immigrants more health care?

BERMAN: Right.

CHAVEZ-DEREMER: This is a clean CR that they voted on 13 times before this. They are accountable for it, and they should definitely not continue to hurt the American people. We're all working so hard to get this economy growing. I will continue to be on the ground. I will continue to tell this story to the American people, that we're here to upskill and reskill this population so that we can grow the American economy and be dominant in the world.

BERMAN: Yes, as point of fact, illegal immigrants are not eligible for the Obamacare subsidies that Democrats and some Republicans are calling for an extension --

CHAVEZ-DEREMER: John, $200 billion --

BERMAN: Secretary --

CHAVEZ-DEREMER: John, $200 billion is in this bill. They --

BERMAN: Secretary -- CHAVEZ-DEREMER: You understand it and I understand it. They need to pass this CR. It's the best for the American people. Let's stop hurting the American population. Let's continue to grow this economy.

BERMAN: Secretary Chavez-DeRemer, I look forward to speaking to you when we do get the jobs report so we can figure out where things are headed. Thanks for being with us this morning.

An historic moment for the world's 85 million Anglicans. For the first time, a woman has been named the archbishop of Canterbury.

New video shows the moment two jets collided on the tarmac at LaGuardia.

And "Have I Got News for You" digs into the headlines of the week Saturday at 9:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

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[09:41:01]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, states scrambling to respond after FEMA halted hundreds of millions of dollars in emergency preparedness grants. The agency is holding the money until states recount their populations, taking into account the number of people who have been deported. FEMA has historically used U.S. census data to determine the grants. The amount of those grants. Multiple FEMA officials tell CNN the push to recount is unprecedented.

CNN's Gabe Cohen is joining us now.

I mean, how much money are we talking here? This is -- this is really important to those who have to deal with a major storm that comes ripping through their communities.

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Sara, it's -- it's very significant. This is a program that sends out more than $300 million a year to help states and communities prepare for disasters. It funds a range of things, emergency management staff, trainings, equipment, public education. And yet, abruptly this week, states started getting these notices from FEMA saying they cannot touch that money until they go back and they provide this updated tally of their population that has to factor in recent deportations. And until the Department of Homeland Security reviews that updated tally, and decides that the count is accurate, states cannot access these funds.

As you mentioned, typically, FEMA uses U.S. census data to calculate population. Telling states to go back and recount their populations appears to be unprecedented. That according to the FEMA officials I've spoken with who have voiced a lot of concern, concern that what they're looking at appears to be a way for this administration to block states from accessing the funds that they were promised, given that it is unlikely that the population numbers have swung enough to really impact these sort of funding levels on a larger scale.

And I will note that the notices started going out this week just hours after a federal judge blocked the Trump administration from permanently rerouting hundreds of millions of dollars of very similar Homeland Security grants away from a dozen blue states who had sued over this issue.

Now, DHS has defended this new rule. It has said in a statement to me that "recent population shifts, including deportations of illegal aliens, create a need for updated data to ensure equitable distribution. This requirement applies to all states and is unrelated to recent court rulings." But look, states right now are extremely concerned for all the reasons, Sara, that you laid out. And they cannot figure out how this administration is going to decide whether or not these counts are accurate. And for months now they have already faced a countless funding pauses, delays, rule changes on these FEMA grant programs. This is really just another one added to the list.

And there's an organization that represents these emergency managers across the country who voiced this concern to me, telling me, quote, "these funds are the backbone of local emergency management programs. Without timely access, communities face gaps in readiness that could slow response to disasters and emergencies when every minute counts."

I think, Sara, that really captures what these states and communities are facing right now. So uncertain about what help they're going to get from the federal government moving forward.

SIDNER: Yes. And the census is usually every ten years. The next one that the federal government does is 2030. Now, the states are going to have to do this. This is going to cause certainly some confusion and probably, as you have probably already thought, some lawsuits that might go forward from this, as many of these decisions by this administration has caused from the states to the federal government.

Gabe Cohen, great reporting from you this morning. Thank you so much.

All right, George Michael, Elizabeth Taylor and wood, all included in Taylor Swift's brand-new album out at midnight, "The Life of a Showgirl." How this new album is a departure from what you've heard from her before.

And a live look outside the federal building in New York, where Sean Combs expected to be sentenced in the next hour or so.

[09:45:05]

A live report just minutes away.

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SIDNER: An historic moment in the U.K. where the Church of England has named a woman as archbishop of Canterbury for the first time in its 1,400-year history. King Charles formally appointing Sarah Mullally to the post earlier today. She will serve as a spiritual leader for 85 million Anglicans around the world. Mullally was a nurse before being ordained.

John. [09:50:04]

BERMAN: All right, this morning, live images of crews pouring water on a huge fire at a Chevron refinery just south of Los Angeles. This has been burning all night. People living nearby said they heard a loud explosion. Security cameras from miles away captured the moment the fires erupted. Firefighters have managed to contain the blaze to one section of the facility. No injuries reported, luckily. The refinery is one of the largest on the West Coast. And the cause of the blaze is under investigation.

Treasure hunter struck gold and silver off Florida. A salvage crew recovered more than a thousand silver coins and five gold coins from the remains of a 1715 shipwreck. Many coins still show dates and mint marks from three centuries ago, which is pretty impressive. We're told they will be preserved or, you know, restored before going on display to the public.

Sara.

SIDNER: If you want to know what I want for Christmas, John, it is one of those pieces of treasure, just so you know.

Speaking of treasures, Taylor Swift taking a shiny, glittery victory lap after the world's biggest tour with one of her glossiest albums ever. "The Life of a Showgirl" is out now and already being streamed all over the place. Swift wrote the album while she was on tour in Europe. It's kind of a soundtrack, it seems, of her own personal summer of love with her now fiance, Travis Kelce. But one of the favorite hits is a rendition of "Father Figure" that was initially done by George Michael.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR SWIFT, MUSICIAN (singing): You want a fight, you found it. I got the place surrounded. You'll be sleeping with the fishes before you know you're drowning. Whose portrait's on the mantle? Who covered up your scandals? Mistake my kindness for weakness and find your card canceled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Oh, I will be your father figure. It took me a second because I -- I --

BERMAN: I didn't hear it.

SIDNER: I -- I just heard it.

BERMAN: But I like both versions. I know both versions.

SIDNER: I do too, actually.

BERMAN: And so does the estate of George Michael, you were telling me earlier.

SIDNER: Yes, they are calling it delightful.

Speaking of delightful, Rob Sheffield, contributing editor for "Rolling Stone" and author of "Heartbreak, it's a National Anthem: How Taylor Swift Reinvented Pop Music."

"Rolling Stone" gave the album five stars. Which was your favorite of the songs that are on this album?

ROB SHEFFIELD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "ROLLING STONE": My favorite is "Elizabeth Taylor." Elizabeth Taylor is the ultimate showgirl. She's always been an obsession for Taylor Swift, way beyond their shared name. And this song is a really beautiful tribute to the showgirls life and to the sadness and joy behind the showgirl post.

BERMAN: We actually have a clip of the song "Elizabeth Taylor." Let's play it right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR SWIFT, MUSICIAN (singing): Babe, I would trade the Cartier for someone to trust (just kidding). We hit the best booth at Musso and Frank's. They say I'm bad news, I just say, thanks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I know people listen really closely to Taylor Swift's lyrics there. What was it that jumped out to you in that?

SHEFFIELD: I love how she sings, "we hit the best booth at Musso and Frank's. They say I'm bad news, I just say thanks." Honestly, that's a line that Elizabeth Taylor could have said. She was a scandalous figure for most of her life, and she wore that with pride. And so does Taylor Swift. So, there's something about that line and the way she namechecks a legendary Hollywood restaurant that we've all seen in movies and turns it into a celebration of her own showgirl life.

SIDNER: Certainly you've been to Musso and Frank's. I've -- have you been to Musso and Frank's?

BERMAN: No.

SIDNER: I've been to Musso and Frank's many time.

BERMAN: You've never invited me.

SIDNER: I will invite you. It is a Hollywood tradition. It is right on the sort of Hollywood strip and all the, you know, stars are out there, blah, blah, blah. And it is such a traditional Italian restaurant. It is so good. Good martinis too. Not that I had one, but my husband says they're good. So, I got to bring you.

All right, we'll get off the Musso and Frank's thing, but that is one of the lines.

We've got another song that we want people to -- to take a sample of. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR SWIFT, MUSICIAN (singing): But my mama told me it's all right. You were dancing through the lightning strikes. Sleepless in the onyx night. But now the sky is opalite. Oh, oh-oh-oh-oh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Her last album seemed much darker. That was so happy and poppy. Is that how the whole album is, just very sort of upbeat?

SHEFFIELD: Absolutely. It's a dazzling, sparkling, upbeat pop album. She's definitely not a tortured poet on this one. I loved "Tortured Poets Department." It was massively popular and a true classic. It was full of detours and experiments, and this is just straight down the middle, 12 for 12, 41 great minutes of upbeat pop music.

[09:55:04]

BERMAN: And we do have, I think we have a little bit of the title song, right, "Life of a Showgirl," with Sabrina Carpenter. Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR SWIFT, MUSICIAN (singing): So I say, thank you for the lovely bouquet. I'm married to the hustle and now I know the life of a showgirl, babe. And I'll never know another. Pain hidden by the lipstick and lace, sequins are forever and now I know the life of a showgirl, babe. Wouldn't have it any other way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I got to say, as sort of the casual Taylor observer, you know, these songs are way more singable than I think the songs from the last few albums.

SHEFFIELD: Definitely. She's going for singable. She wants songs that connect instantly and that are just uplifting for people.

SIDNER: I just want to say, I don't know if anyone knows this, but John can sing. John is an actual bona fide singer. No joke.

BERMAN: That's right. Like --

SIDNER: When is the album coming out?

BERMAN: But mostly opera. Mostly opera. But sort of more of a hip hop opera.

Rob Sheffield, thank you very much for being with us today.

SIDNER: He can really sing. He's just -- he's just joshing.

BERMAN: Appreciate you sharing it with us. SIDNER: Thank you.

BERMAN: Thank you all for being with us. I'm so happy it's Friday. This has been CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "THE SITUATION ROOM" --

SIDNER: Hit it, John.

BERMAN: "THE SITUATION ROOM" is up next.

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