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Supreme Court Shuts Down Ghislaine Maxwell's Appeal; Dem-led Cities, States Fight Trump's Efforts to Deploy National Guard; Judge Temporarily Blocks Any Deployment of National Guard to Portland; Senate Returns as Federal Funding Deal Evades Congress; Indirect Talks Between Israeli and Palestinian Negotiators Begin. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 06, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": The president's crime and immigration crack down hitting a roadblock, cities and states suing to stop troops from being deployed to their streets. Will the White House find another way to send in the National Guard despite the court's orders? And Senators are getting back to work this afternoon, trying to find a way to get the government back open. The two sides though remain divided, and there seems to be little to no hope of passing a bill today to turn the lights back on. And the Supreme Court shutting down an appeal for Ghislaine Maxwell. What's next for Jeffrey Epstein's convicted accomplice? We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to "CNN News Central."

Right now, several legal battles are intensifying as President Trump attempts to expand his federal crackdown in U.S. cities across the country. The state of Illinois and the city of Chicago are now suing the administration over its push to deploy members of the National Guard to the windy city. In Oregon, a Trump-appointed judge temporarily blocked the deployment of any National Guard troops to Portland. The president has claimed that deploying the military to Portland is necessary to quell clashes outside an ICE facility there.

Earlier, CNN's Kaitlan Collins asked White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt, which local officials in Portland had told the president the National Guard was needed there. Here's how she responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: With all due respect to that judge, I think her opinion is untethered in reality and in the law. The president is using his authority as commander-in-chief, the U.S. Code 12406, which clearly states that the president has the right to call up the National Guard in cases where he deems it's appropriate. And if you look at what has happened in Portland, Oregon, for more than 100 nights, I was talking to our law enforcement team about it this morning -- for more than 100 days, night after night after night, the ICE facility has been really under siege

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: With us now to discuss is Former Federal Prosecutor, Alyse Adamson. Alyse, great to see you. Walk us through the ruling from this judge and what you think comes next.

ALYSE ADAMSON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yeah, thanks so much, Boris. I mean, essentially, Oregon just won a major round in a constitutional tug of war that goes right to the heart of American federalism. So, the judge in Oregon has temporarily, through a temporary restraining order, blocked the Trump administration from sending in or federalizing National Guard troops to Oregon. The first temporary restraining order was issued, just blocked the federalization of the National Guard in Oregon.

The Trump administration attempted to circumvent this by calling in troops from other places like California. So, the judge has now issued a second temporary restraining order saying, no, no, you cannot federalize any troop to going into Oregon. And the reason for that is the judge has found that the Trump administration has exceeded their authority here. So with all due respect to Karoline Leavitt, just listening to that soundbite, the president does not have the authority to federalize the troop under all circumstances, only under very limited circumstances.

And here, the only applicable, there's three -- there's -- if there's a foreign invasion, that doesn't apply. There's, if there's a rebellion or if there is the state's regular forces can't execute the laws, meaning regular police force cannot stop what here is protests from impeding on federal law enforcement capabilities. And the judge found that there is no colorable (ph) basis for either. There's no rebellion. And furthermore, the local police are able to keep these protests in check.

They said there hasn't really been an arrest since June. The on-the- ground facts do not support what the president has found. So, there are very important constitution -- constitutional, and statutory limitations to the president's authority. And that is what the court has just found. What's next, Boris, to answer your second question --

SANCHEZ: Yeah.

ADAMSON: -- is an appeal. The Trump administration has already appealed to the 9th Circuit, and we will see if they agree with the lower court's decision.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, I think one of the interesting things that will likely be tested in that appeal is the question of whether what we're watching unfold there constitutes open rebellion. You have the administration suggesting that it does, that somebody wheeling out a guillotine as a demonstration of some kind of protest means that there is insurrection, means that there is some attempt to go against the federal government. Where is the line exactly between a demonstration and something that then actually amounts to the kind of rebellion that would require a National Guard response?

ADAMSON: Well, Boris, I believe that is exactly what is going to be litigated in court. If you remember back to the L.A. protests, the Trump administration advanced the same argument and the judge similarly rejected there.

[14:05:00]

The judge was really relying on the regularly interpreted meaning of rebellion, which is an attempt to overthrow the government, an armed rebellion, a unified show of force. And we are not seeing that in Portland, at least that is what the judge determined. So I think what they're going to do is they're going to fight about the interpretation of what a rebellion actually is. Is it the historical context of rebellion or as you just described, is it going to be expanded for more First Amendment like behavior that has now gone into something different?

I think what's important to note though, Boris, is there's that second circumstance that -- the impediment of the forces to execute the laws. I think that is what the fallback position was in L.A. that these protests were keeping ICE from enforcing the law. And I actually think that's a safer position for the administration because if you have protesters that are preventing ICE agents, from making arrests from entering federal facilities, there is a stronger argument that they are impeding and making it impossible to do the laws than it is that there is some kind of armed and open rebellion and an attempt to overthrow the United States government.

SANCHEZ: Alyse Adamson, thank you so much for sharing your point of view. Appreciate it, Erica?

ERICA HILL, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": So in the next hour, the Senate will be back in session with the government shutdown now in its sixth day. Democrats want to include an extension, of course, of Obamacare subsidies in the funding bill to keep the government open. Republicans say they're willing to discuss healthcare, but only after the shutdown ends. So far, neither side appears willing to budge. Since September 19th though, the House has not been in session and today, Speaker Mike Johnson said he refuses to bring his chamber back until Senators, in his words, turn the lights back on.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is on Capitol Hill with more for us now. So Arlette, any movement at this point on either side in the Senate to push forward, maybe get the government to reopen?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. Right now, Erica, it really does not appear that, that there is. Right now, this government shutdown is entering its third week and there's really no clear end in sight for it. What we are hearing from Republican leaders is really them engage -- Republican and Democratic leaders, is them engaging in this messaging war of who is to blame for this shutdown. But there have been no formal negotiations underway between leaders, Democratic and Republican and President Donald Trump. In fact, President Trump, the White House press secretary a short while ago announced that he has spoken with house speaker Mike Johnson as of today, that he's kept in touch with Senate Majority Leader John Thune, but there haven't been any conversations with Democrats. And at the center of Democrats' demands are the expiring Obamacare subsidies that they want to see permanently extended. But Republicans have argued that there is still a lot of time to negotiate on that front and that any talks shouldn't take place until the government is reopened. What Democrats say though, is that Americans this month will start to learn just by how much their healthcare premiums will jump if these subsidies are not extended and they're looking at that November 1st deadline or date for when open enrollment on the Obamacare exchanges is set to kick off. But here is how Speaker Mike Johnson a bit earlier today, as he said that the only time for negotiations to happen is if the government were to reopen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON, (R-LA) HOUSE SPEAKER: They've been saying that some of the insurance companies will be sending out notices in early November. The last time I checked, it's October 6th, we have the entire month of October. We'll stay here around the clock to work through all these things, but we have to get government open again to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, Speaker Johnson also announced that he will keep House members back in their home districts until the Senate passes what he hopes is that clean GOP funding bill to fund the government until November 21st. Now, a little later this evening, there will be votes in the Senate on both the Democrat and Republican plans, but right now, it does not appear like there will be enough crossover from either side to pass one of those measures. So, a lot of questions still about how long this shutdown will last. But right now for both of these parties, they're essentially waiting for the other to blink first.

HILL: Yeah, both seem quite dug in. Arlette, appreciate it. Thank you.

Still to come here, after nearly two years of bloodshed, negotiators for both Israel and the Palestinians, begin ceasefire talks aiming to end the conflict in Gaza. Plus, the Supreme Court setting its docket for the new term, which could include a major case on voting rights. And later, Taylor Swift living the life of a movie star and a showgirl, her record-setting box office returns and much more ahead, right here on "CNN News Central."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:14:21]

SANCHEZ: A new Supreme Court term begins today, but the justices didn't need to wait for arguments to break news. The court deciding that it will not hear an appeal from Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice. Her lawyers argued that Maxwell should have been shielded from prosecution on sex trafficking charges under a plea agreement that Epstein struck with the Feds back in 2008-2009. CNN Chief Supreme Court Analyst Joan Biskupic joins us now. So Joan, what did the court find?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN CHIEF SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Yep. Before they took the bench today at 10:00 a.m., they issued a set of orders, hundreds and hundreds of orders. And among them was a rejection of Ghislaine Maxwell appealing a 20-year sentence for sex trafficking that she had gotten in a New York court.

[14:15:00]

And what she was saying to the justices was that a plea deal that Jeffrey Epstein had struck, a non-prosecution deal for some of his co- conspirators in the Southern District of Florida should apply to her up in New York. Now, various lower federal courts are actually split on different non-prosecution agreements and whether they can extend beyond the districts in which they were signed. But the justices dismissed her appeal out of hand without any kind of recorded vote or any kind of explanation.

Now, that was expected in some ways, Boris, because the justices get hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cases over the summer, and most of them it finds without merit. And this case, I should note though, is separate from what Ghislaine Maxwell is trying to do with the Trump administration seeking a pardon for her sex trafficking conviction, as she deals with various people with the administration. But this has become such a huge hot issue --

SANCHEZ: Yeah.

BISKUPIC: -- because of the seriousness of the charges and the seriousness of the effect on the victims of Jeffrey Epstein.

SANCHEZ: As for the cases where the Supreme Court found merit, what are we expecting for this term?

BISKUPIC: Yeah, right away tomorrow, we're going to have a big one and then later this month and through the next couple months. Let's just start with what's going to be on the calendar tomorrow for them. One testing state bans on what's known as conversion therapy. Colorado has prohibited licensed healthcare providers, counselors from engaging in what people call conversion therapy. That's the practice of trying to encourage LGBTQ teens to change their sexual orientation or gender identity. And Colorado, like about 20 other states, thinks this is a dangerous practice and has tried to outlaw it.

A counselor is challenging it. She says -- she describes herself as a Christian who wants to engage in a kind of talk therapy and she's challenging it as a violation of her free speech rights. So that's coming tomorrow. And you know, these cases involving trans rights are just so important these days. And then next week, the justices will take up a case involving the landmark 1965 Voting Rights Act. And there, they're going to be looking at what happens when states draw Congressional districts, maps, you know re-districting that dilute the power of Blacks and Hispanics. Can there be a remedy that then requires the states to draw, what we call, majority/minority districts, consolidating Blacks or Hispanics to give them a greater chance to elect candidates of their choice. And then finally, I do want to mention some of the Trump ones coming in the next couple months, over Trump's tariff policy and over his effort to fire so many heads of independent agencies. His executive powers are going to be tested and what we'll probably know in a couple months is just how much he will be able to control the Federal Reserve where, as you know, he's been trying to pressure them on interest rates.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. One of many aspects of executive power that is --

BISKUPIC: Yes.

SANCHEZ: -- is up for debate. Jon Biskupic, thank you so much.

BISKUPIC: Sure.

SANCHEZ: Still to come, President Trump's plan for Gaza brings Israeli and Hamas negotiators to the table. We're going to look at the chances for a ceasefire in the conflict's second year and what it could mean for Palestinians hoping to return to Gaza.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:23:03]

HILL: Israel and Hamas are negotiating indirectly in Egypt right now, trying to finalize a deal based on President Trump's 20-point Peace Plan, which is seen as the best chance yet to end this two-year war and to free the remaining hostages in Gaza. The White House says President Trump hopes a quick release of the remaining hostages will generate momentum for the other parts of the plan. Also, that the talks important to note include U.S. Special Envoy, Steve Witkoff and Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, their focus on details of the hostage release.

Joining us now, former Defense Secretary and former CIA Director, Leon Panetta. Sir, always good to have you with us. When we look at where things stand with these talks, what is your sense of, not just the urgency of this moment, but what this could mean for these talks. Is this basically a make or break moment?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY AND FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: I don't think there's any question, about that. The key here is going to be the release of all hostages, that's important. Hamas has said they agreed to that. Clearly, that's what we want. That's what Israel wants. It's what these other Arab countries want. And I think it's going to be critical. There are a lot of other issues. Hamas has some concerns about giving up arms. They have concerns about what prisoners are going to be released. There's a lot of negotiations here that can go on.

But I think they have to come quickly to the conclusion that they have to release all hostages. And there has to be a ceasefire and there have to be logistics to get that done. That will tell me whether or not this is successful or not. HILL: And to your point, Karoline Leavitt is saying that White House really does want to move quickly to get the hostages out, but then there are of course, the other parts of the plan. At this -- at this point, based on what we know publicly and what we have seen out of past negotiations, what do you view as the sticking points?

[14:25:00]

PANETTA: Well, I guess best way to frame it is what Secretary Rubio said, which is that we're dealing with two phases. One phase is the release of the hostages on a ceasefire. The second phase is going to be negotiations on just exactly what happens to Gaza after Israel withdraws. I think there's hope in that large plan that the president put together, that I think reflects a path forward if they can agree to some kind of international team that looks at governance, that develops the ability of the Palestinians ultimately to govern and secure themselves. Then there's hope here that we could really have a more permanent peace in that part of the world.

But I believe that's going to take a lot more negotiations. And that's not going to be that easy to achieve (ph).

HILL: President Trump over the weekend, told CNN that Hamas faces in his words, complete obliteration, if the group refuses to cede power and control of Gaza. Getting to that point though may not be easy. Is it your sense that as things are moving forward, there is -- that is a possibility that Hamas would agree to that?

PANETTA: There are factions here we're dealing with that are not necessarily in agreement. There's a military faction of Hamas that's still operating in Gaza. They're fighting and they're not going to give up their arms easily. They think they're going to have to continue to fight a war with Israel. Whereas the leadership of Hamas outside of Gaza, the Arab countries outside of Gaza, I think there is a consensus that this is an opportunity to finally bring this war to an end.

And I think the Palestinians themselves are exhausted. They've said enough is enough. So there is a lot of working parts here, but I think the most difficult part to deal with is the military faction of Hamas, which is not going to surrender very easily.

HILL: When it comes to Israel, more than 100 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since President Trump told Israel to immediately stop the bombing on Friday. And there are questions about the prime minister's view, about Netanyahu's view moving forward and that day after. The main negotiator is not initially in Egypt for these talks, sources telling CNN that he does plan to be there for what they're referencing as the final push on that plan. What does that also tell you about where Israel is in this moment, where the prime minister is in this moment?

PANETTA: What it tells me is that President Trump has his work cut out for him in terms of putting pressure on Israel. Israel will be difficult to finally bring them to the table, to agree to total withdrawal from Gaza. And they're going to continue to worry about whether they can defend themselves, as they withdraw, or whether they're going to continue this war. I think there are a lot of factors here at play that are working against some kind of negotiated resolution. But the fact that President Trump put it together, the fact that Netanyahu agreed to the basic elements of this deal, I think that's going to put additional pressure on Netanyahu to basically sit at the table and make sure that a deal is cut.

HILL: We'll be watching for those developments in the coming days. Leon Panetta, always appreciate your insight. Thank you.

PANETTA: Good to be with you.

HILL: Still ahead here, investigators have a number of questions after a South Carolina judge's coastal home burned down over the weekend. That and much more ahead on "CNN News Central."

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