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Trump Threatens To Use Insurrection Act To Deploy Troops To Cities; Gaza Ceasefire Talks Underway As Israel Marks Two Years Since October 7 Attack; Government Shutdown Triggers Airport Delays, Staffing Shortages. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 07, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:30:40]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So new this morning your government is still not at work. No end in sight to the government shutdown. And now hundreds of thousands of federal government contractors are at risk of losing their pay. Unlike other federal workers contractors usually do not get backpay -- get backpay once the government reopens, and that is now a harsh reality that so many people are having to face.

CNN's Matt Egan is here. And Matt, you spoke to a lot of the -- a lot of workers. What are the stories that you're hearing?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well Kate, it's really those blue- collar contract workers who were most exposed to this government shutdown, right? We're talking about the janitors, the security guards, the cleaners, the cafeteria workers --

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

EGAN: -- who work at companies who have contracts with the federal government. And a lot of them -- you know what -- they're ready and they're willing to work but during a shutdown they often can't because the agencies or the museums that they're stationed at have gone dark or will soon.

Now as you mentioned, federal employees, right -- they are eligible for backpay and historically they that backpay.

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

EGAN: And that makes sense, of course, right? It's not their fault the government can't keep the lights on. But it's the federal contractors who historically do not get backpay and they do face a potential permanent loss of income.

Now during the last government shutdown -- the 35-day shutdown --

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

EGAN: -- that started in late 2018 -- an estimated 544,000 contract workers were furloughed without pay. That's according to estimates -- BOLDUAN: Wow.

EGAN: -- from the Service Employees International Union.

And this is especially hard for those lower-wage workers. The janitors who might live paycheck-to-paycheck or the cafeteria workers who might not have a substantial rainy day fund. A lot of them are concerned right now. I mean, I'm hearing from a number of different single moms who say that they're fearful that they're going to start to fall behind on their bills.

I spoke to a woman, Audrey Murray, who lives in Maryland. She's worked as a cleaner at the Smithsonian for almost three decades. But now she's worried about how she's going to provide for her three kids and grandkids that she lives with because the Smithsonian, starting after Saturday if the shutdown continues -- it's going to go dark.

And Audrey -- she told me, "I don't know how I'm going to feed my kids or pay my mortgage." And she urged lawmakers and administration officials to, she said, "Stop messing with people's lives."

Now, legal experts -- they're telling me that federal contractors who do get furloughed -- they shouldn't wait. They should immediately apply for unemployment benefits, especially if they need that money and they're worried that they're going to lose their paychecks.

Now Democrats in Congress -- they've actually introduced some legislation that would be designed to protect federal contractors in a shutdown. It would provide backpay -- 100 percent of weekly pay up to $1,442. Restore paid leave as well. But listen, a campaign after that last shutdown -- a campaign to get contractors paid -- it failed.

I reached out to the White House. I asked if they support this legislation or something similar and they didn't really answer. But they did cast blame on the Democrats for the shutdown.

And so as the blame game continues a lot of federal contract workers -- they're just hoping that there's some sort of a breakthrough and they don't lose out on their paychecks.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

Matt, thank you so much for that --

EGAN: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: -- highlighting that -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

This morning as troops from Texas head to Chicago, President Trump is locked in a legal battle over his push to send the National Guard into cities and states led by Democrats.

Illinois has filed a lawsuit now challenging his order to deploy troops to Chicago. The first battle, a federal judge declined to block the deployment and has given the administration until midnight Wednesday to respond. A different judge has temporarily halted troops from being deployed to Portland, Oregon.

And now the president is threatening to use the more than 200-year-old Insurrection Act to get around any officials or courts who get in his way.

CNN's Alayna Treene is live at the White House. Give us some sense of where this stands right now and this threat that the president has sort of made.

[07:35:00]

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, I think it's very clear, Sara, just from looking at how this administration has operated throughout the president's second term thus far they are not shy to trying to press the bounds of his executive authority or really, the legal bounds and fight to the courts.

They actually welcome a lot of these legal battles. And that is exactly what I'm hearing in my conversations with White House officials when it comes to what is happening in response to their push to mobilize the National Guard and other troops to these mainly Democratic-led, heavily Democratic cities.

Now, the president, as you mentioned, floated yesterday that if the courts try to stand in his way he would be open to using the Insurrection Act, an 1807 federal law that would allow the president to nationally deploy troops to these different cities.

Listen to how he put it, and also listen to Stephen Miller, his deputy chief of staff, who is really an architect of a lot of what he is doing right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that's all insurrection. I really think that's really criminal insurrection.

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: It is domestic terrorism. It is insurrection. And no amount of insane, hyperventilating lies from Pritzker or Johnson, or any other Democratic official will change our minds on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: OK. So Stephen Miller clearly very passionate about this. But you see both of them kind of starting to lay the groundwork, calling what is happening in these cities an insurrection.

Of course, we are hearing a very different picture from the local leaders on the ground. Listen to Illinois Governor JB Pritzker essentially saying there is no insurrection happening here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOVERNOR JB PRITZKER, (D) ILLINOIS: Donald Trump's deranged depiction of Chicago as a hell hole, a warzone, and the worst and most dangerous city in the world, was just complete B.S.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: So as you heard him there, saying it's complete B.S.

So we have to really see how this all plays out. For now, in my conversations with people at the White House, they say there is no need for the president to invoke the Insurrection Act, but he reserves the right to eventually do so.

But again, this is a major escalation of what we have seen with this strategy thus far.

And I think one of the key things Sara to keep in mind here is really the big picture of all of this. We saw, of course, what the president did here in Washington, D.C. with federalizing the police force and sending the National Guard here. We saw similar things in Los Angeles back in June. But now it's clear that those weren't one-offs. This is a -- very much a bigger strategy that they want to deploy in several cities across America.

And that's why I think the courts and what they decide here is going to be so vital as we look forward to how this will all play out.

SIDNER: Yeah. Hard for people to square the fact that there was an insurrection on January 6 and the president pardoned all those who took part in that. And now you're seeing this potentially being used in a city like Chicago. We will see what happens, and the court battles are fiercely going on -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. This morning one of the biggest music stars on Earth stepping into a political debate with a new song that seems to call out the government for the ongoing ICE raids happening across the country.

Zach Bryan posted a clip of his new song "Bad News" on his social media account -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZACH BRYAN, SINGER-SONGWRITER: Singing "Bad News."

Lyrics: And ICE is gonna come bust down your door. Try to build a house no one builds no more, but I got a telephone.

Kids are all scared and all alone. The bar stopped bumping, the rock stopped rolling, the middle fingers rising, and it won't stop showing.

Got some bad news. The fading of the red, white and blue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. With us now, Democratic strategist Matt Bennett, and former Republican strategist and pollster Lee Carter.

I have no idea what Zach Bryan's politics are. Like, zero. What I do know is he's a country music star who just had the biggest single ticketed concert in U.S. history attended by Kate Bolduan -- 112,000 people packed into the stadium at Michigan here.

He's a huge star, Lee, who I think appeals to both the left, right, center, and everything. And I think I was just surprised to hear him with a new song like this.

LEE CARTER, STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS EXPERT, PARTNER, MASLANSKY+PARTNERS, FORMER REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST AND POLLSTER: I was very surprised because I think he has been apolitical intentionally. I think that he's really stayed in the lane of being a musician and not really making a political statement. Like, Jason Aldean is clearly in the bag for Trump. So this is somewhat surprising to me to see it.

But, you know, the thing that I think is really fascinating is despite the fact that support for implementing immigration reform is hugely popular, these ICE raids are very, very unpopular. And so when you look at polling it's like they want to enforce the law but when it comes to doing it people are really, really up in arms.

And so I think this is sort of a reflection of the cultural phenomenon that's happening right now where people really are -- this is hitting people right where they -- you know, in their hearts.

[07:40:00]

BERMAN: You know, my son is a big Zach Bryan fan. And I was just texting with him a second ago and he says a) that this means we shouldn't make assumptions on someone's politics just because of the type of music they may sing. You don't make an assumption about a country music person, Matt.

But the other thing here is sort of the mainstreaming -- and Lee was just getting at this -- the mainstreaming of questions, at least, about the ICE raids.

MATT BENNETT, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS AND CO- FOUNDER, THIRD WAY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY ASSISTANT FOR INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, CLINTON ADMINISTRATION: Exactly. I think your son is right. And I also think that when these kinds of issues break through in a popular culture you know that people are paying attention in ways that just consumption of the news doesn't always lead them to do.

So I think Lee is also correct. The ICE raids are massively unpopular because they feel to people to be un-American. And we saw this in Trump one with the child separation. They might have supported controlling the border. They did not support ripping babies out of the -- out of the arms of their mothers.

They don't support now, you know, pulling people out of their cars at gunpoint. Taking children outside with their hands zip-tied together. Pulling parents out of the line at pickup. These things feel violent and un-American to a lot of people. And when you start to see very, very prominent and non-political culture icons like this taking a stand, I think it's breaking through in a new way.

BERMAN: We are standing by. Very shortly we are going to hear from the attorney general, Pam Bondi, testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee. I think there are going to be a whole range of questions --

CARTER: Um-hum.

BERMAN: -- to ask her. First, about the Justice Department and investigations. You have what's going on in different cities. And then there's Jeffrey Epstein, which is still ongoing and, of course, she was smackdab in the middle of.

President Trump was asked by Kaitlan Collins yesterday about a possible pardon to Ghislaine Maxwell. Listen to what this -- the exchange here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You know, I haven't heard the name in so long. I can say this, that I'd have to take a look at it.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: But you're considering that.

TRUMP: I will speak to the DOJ. I wouldn't consider it or not consider it. I don't know anything about it. But I'll see. I will speak to the D.A.

REPORTER: Why would she be a candidate? Why would she be a candidate?

COLLINS: She as convicted of child sex trafficking.

TRUMP: Yeah. I mean, I'm going to have to take a look at it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: It seems like a pretty complicated answer there.

CARTER: It does seem like a complicated answer and one that you would think that he would be prepared to answer.

The thing that I think is really interesting about Donald Trump and his use of pardons and executive power is he looks at it really as an exertion of power; not as what's popular. So when he looks at what he's going to say, he's like I just want to make sure that it's very clear I am in charge here and I am arbiter of what's going to happen or not. And I think he might be laying the groundwork to do it.

Now, is he going to? That's a really good question. Why would he do it? I think in one hand if he were to do this it would put the story to bed. He would get a lot of backlash for it and that would be that. Right now it's a drip, drip, drip. This is constantly coming out and coming to haunt him at every moment. And so I think one of the strategies he might deploy is to say, like, let's just put an end to it. Let's get the story out there and put it to bed once and for all. But for Trump, I think he looks at this as I am in charge here. I'm the one who is going to decide. And whether you like it or not, I think that's what he does.

BERMAN: Matt, what do you think about the answer?

BENNETT: I mean, this is bizarre. The whole idea that she would be subject to even consideration for a pardon is ridiculous. But I think it is a symptom of the way that Trump has governed. I mean, the guy pardoned every single person that was beating up cops and attacking the Capitol on January 6. He's pardoned all kinds of his political allies.

Meanwhile, he has turned the Justice Department, under Pam Bondi, against his enemies in ways that are so incredibly overt. I mean, he posts on social media and then Bondi responds.

And this is the way that this guy thinks that the justice system is supposed to work in America, and it is completely backwards. So it is the weaponization of the Justice Department against his enemies and the use of the justice system to reward his allies.

BERMAN: We will hear questions of Pam Bondi, I imagine, about these subjects a little later this morning.

Matt Bennett, Lee Carter, great to see you both. Thanks so much -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Two years later negotiators from Israel and Hamas will meet for a second day of indirect talks today, exactly two years after Hamas launched the October 7 terror attacks -- attacks that killed 1,200 people in Israel. Attacks that also then set off a brutal war that killed tens of thousands of Palestinians and left much of the territory in rubble.

Two hundred fifty people were taken hostage by Hamas on that day. Forty-eight of them remain in Gaza now, only 20 of which are still believed to be alive.

But there is new hope for them and everyone in the region. President Trump, who proposed the latest peace plan being discussed, says that there has been, in his words, "tremendous progress" in those talks.

CNN's international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is in Egypt where these talks are taking place. Nic, what are you hearing?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, a number of things. That the talks are continuing amid a positive conversation so far. That's according to Egyptian state media. The Qatari Foreign Ministry spokesman and, of course, their mediators, along with Egypt in all of the this, say that the talks lasted for four hours last night.

[07:45:10]

There is an extraordinary amount of secrecy, by the way, around these talks -- even according to some Hamas sources in Gaza. Senior sources there are telling us that even they are not getting a lot of detail, if any detail, about what's happening. Very little being said.

But what we have got from Hamas today is a rough description of what they say happened yesterday. They say that yesterday the mediators met with both sides -- with Hamas, with Israel. The mediators were just listening to what both sides had to say.

And Hamas say today is the day -- the first day when the actual negotiations begin. Where the sides begin potentially listening to what the mediators say. The other side is set on potentially changing their positions.

It is a very slow process. That's what we've been told to expect.

And I think an interesting detail that we heard from Hamas, which they sort of set the tone for what goes on inside the room there. They say three of their delegation in the negotiation -- three members were in that house in Qatar that Israel targeted in an airstrike almost a month ago.

So you kind of get a sense of the lack of trust that may exist across these sort of separate tables where the discussions are going on. So very little detail. But the real negotiations happening now. Positive atmosphere. A second day of the talks. The Qatari officials saying they have no idea what the outcome will look like -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Nic Robertson, thank you so much. It's great to see you.

SIDNER: I'm coming. I'm coming.

BOLDUAN: And she's here.

SIDNER: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: What am I going to do with you?

SIDNER: Our own Clare Duffy going inside the world of online scams showing just how easy it is to trick people with deepfakes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Hey, thanks for jumping on so fast. Can you remind me of our password for our shared drive? I need it for an interview starting in 30 seconds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: And a major heads-up for travelers. Multiple airports now reporting delays. How the government shutdown is impacting travel.

Those stories and more ahead.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:51:35] SIDNER: All right. New for you this morning the government shutdown starting to impact air travel. At least a dozen airports, including major hubs like Phoenix, Denver, Chicago, and D.C., having serious staffing shortages. An air traffic control tower at Hollywood Burbank Airport went unmanned for hours Monday night.

Air traffic controllers -- as you know, they are supposed to be working during the shutdown but they're not being paid.

Joining me now is CNN transportation analyst Mary Schiavo. She is also the former inspector general of the Department of Transportation. Thank you. I'm so glad to see you in person. It's so nice to have you in the studio with us.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION: It's great to be here.

SIDNER: But there is a lot of concern. So Monday afternoon this control tower completely shuts down for a bit because they say that people had called in sick -- the air traffic controllers.

I'm just curious. What happens when suddenly a tower goes dark, and you have planes in the sky and on the ground trying to take off?

SCHIAVO: Well, what happens is the pilots have to act like general aviation pilots -- like pilots who fly without air traffic control. And they can do it, but you have to use a communications line that's sort of like a common chat line. And you announce your intentions, and you take off -- and you take off just like I do in our small planes.

But it's doable but it's -- it adds a margin of danger. It's not as safe as having full air traffic control, and statistics show that -- show them.

SIDNER: No one should have to work without pay. We are now going into day seven. But they haven't been paid. There's a lot of confusion as to why calls out sick now when it's not like you get paid every day.

SCHIAVO: Right. Well, you get paid every two weeks in the federal government. There's -- you know, the check goes in automatically. And this happens.

When I was inspector general, Clinton went through two shutdowns. One was 21 days. And what happens is people get anxious, people get nervous, and sometimes there's abuse of sick leave. And, of course, I had to investigate those. People do it to take other jobs. To start looking for other jobs just in anticipation of losing their paychecks. But in the federal government if you're out for sick leave for more than three days you have to have a doctor's note.

SIDNER: Right.

SCHIAVO: And if it's -- they're suspicious they can require you go to the doctor. So taking sick leave when you're not sick is always a bad idea, which is why their controllers' group has called for people not to abuse sick leave. Go in and do your job. You're a federal employee. For example, President Reagan had seven shutdowns. So seasoned federal employees know about this --

SIDNER: Yeah.

SCHIAVO: -- but it's hard.

SIDNER: Yeah. It's really hard for families as they're looking at -- and I think you hit the nail on the head. It's like OK, they might have us start looking for work. Because the last shutdown during the last Trump administration lasted the longest ever -- 35 days.

SCHIAVO: Right.

SIDNER: A lot of concern out there.

I am curious if you think that this -- like has happened in the past, the air traffic control, the TSA could force Congress -- could be the driving force to get Congress to do their job. Have we seen that in the past?

SCHIAVO: Yes, we have. You know, what's interesting is it's five or six percent of the gross domestic product but the confusion, the congestion, the inability to get your job done really has. And literally, in the past, the -- you know, the shutdowns have been ended because of air traffic control and the inability to travel because, you know, we rely on it so much.

[07:55:00]

And then there are certain areas that can only be accessed by air. Alaska will be hard-hit. Alaska Airlines did say they're going to keep right on flying, and so that's good.

But it is often air transportation that pushes the government back to full funding and full work.

SIDNER: You have been and seen everything when it comes to aviation and through all of the shutdowns that you just mentioned. We will see what happens this time.

But it is a pleasure to have you here in person, Mary.

SCHIAVO: Thank you. Good to be with you.

SIDNER: Over to you, John.

BERMAN: All right. This morning new video of a medical helicopter crash on a highway in Sacramento. Three crew members were badly hurt; one of them pinned under the wreckage until bystanders jumped in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPTAIN JUSTIN SILVIA, SACRAMENTO FIRE DEPARTMENT: There was one victim that was trapped underneath the helicopter. We only had one engine on scene at that point. Others were trying to make access to the scene. That one person that was trapped -- the captain immediately sequestered the help of just civilians that were standing around. They were able to lift part of that helicopter out and get that victim out so we could get them loaded into the back of an ambulance and transported off scene.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now, no one on the ground was hit or hurt. The cause of this crash is under investigation.

A single mother of 15 is taking class outdoors. Nikki Bettis is currently paddling the entire length of the Mississippi River with her seven youngest children. After surviving domestic violence Bettis says adventure became a way to heal and reconnect with her children.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI BETTIS, TRAVELING WITH 7 KIDS: A lot of what we did before we left was education at home learning about the water, watching videos, what do you do, and basically creating a comfort level for them so that they don't panic should something go wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So last year, Bettis and 13 of her children hiked the entire Appalachian Trail.

This morning Taylor Swift is revealing new details about how Travis Kelce popped the question. She says Kelce had blackout curtains installed on every window of their home so she could not see his crews set up a secret garden in the backyard where it would all happen.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR SWIFT, SINGER-SONGWRITER: He's walking around sort of nervous about the podcast. He's like my heart is racing. I just really want -- I know how much this means to you. Like, I really want this to be what you hoped it would be. Because we'd been talking about doing the podcast and announcing the album.

JIMMY FALLON, HOST, NBC "THE TONIGHT SHOW STARRING JIMMY FALLON": Yeah.

SWIFT: He said, like, my heart is racing. I'm so -- I've never seen this dude nervous, ever.

FALLON: Of course, he's not nervous about the podcast. He's like what am I doing?

SWIFT: Professionally, not a nervous person.

FALLON: He's like I wonder what questions I'm going to ask you. I know one! I know one! I know one question I'm going to ask. I know the big one. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I'm not sure how she wasn't tipped off by the blackout curtains. It seems like all of a sudden when you're hanging blackout curtains everywhere it might raise some questions -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: They just like -- they like to sleep very soundly. It's not just blackout curtains in the bedroom --

BERMAN: OK.

BOLDUAN: -- it's everywhere.

BERMAN: All right. Into the garden.

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

OK to that, to this. There is a new scam out there right now that is spreading fast. Hackers are using video deepfakes to pose as top business executives. And then they trick people into sending money, sharing passwords and other sensitive information their way. And it's working, already costing some companies millions upon millions of dollars.

CNN's Clare Duffy created a deepfake of herself to test just how easy a scam this is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUFFY: Hey, thanks for jumping on so fast. Can you remind me of our password for our shared drive? I need it for an interview starting in 30 seconds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The real Clare Duffy is here now. How -- OK, one, what happened?

DUFFY: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: And two, how big of a problem is this becoming?

DUFFY: Well, it is a really big problem. I mean, we've talked about voice deepfakes that have cost people money.

BOLDUAN: (INAUDIBLE).

DUFFY: They're targeting families. But as AI gets better at replicating people's faces, we are seeing hackers start to target businesses -- i.e., one multinational company based in Hong Kong last year was defrauded of $25 million --

BOLDUAN: Wow.

DUFFY: -- because a finance worker thought they were on a Zoom call with their CFO. It turned out to be a hacker. So I wanted to get a better sense of how this works. I worked with ethical hacker and Social Proof Security CEO Rachel Tobac, who created that deepfake of me based on YouTube clips of me that are available out there.

BOLDUAN: Right.

DUFFY: And we tested out on a colleague of mine, and as you can see there it's pretty remarkable how realistic --

BOLDUAN: No, it looks just like you.

DUFFY: -- and how much it sounds like me.

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

DUFFY: There are some red flags. The movements are a little jerky and unnatural if you watch it closely.

But Rachel said that a lot of times the hackers will set up these scenarios where you're in a hurry. As you hear there, I have an interview starting in 30 seconds. There's also a clip just a minute after that that I say again, I have a really bad connection. Sorry if this is glitchy.

BOLDUAN: Hmm.

DUFFY: And so it's set up for people to be fooled by this.

Now there are ways for people to avoid falling victim to these kinds of scams. I asked Rachel for some advice and here's what she told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL TOBAC, ETHICAL HACKER, CEO, SOCIAL PROOF SECURITY: You and the people around you have to be politely paranoid. So essentially, verify that people are who they say they are before taking action on their sensitive request.

[08:00:00]