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Interview with Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL): Attorney General Pam Bondi to Testify Before Senate Judiciary Committee; Trump Orders Troops to Chicago, Threatens to Use Insurrection Act; Jeffrey Epstein Survivors Wary of Compiling Client List; Government Shutdown Triggers Airport Delays, Staffing Shortages. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired October 07, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

RACHEL TOBACK, ETHICAL HACKER: ... Verify that people are who they say they are before taking action on their sensitive request. So before sending a wire transfer, giving a code, giving access to a password or a document. If you do that after the fact because it felt weird, it's already too late.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: And it does feel like sort of the takeaway in this AI era for so many things. We all have to be a little bit slower, a little bit more careful when it comes to verifying that things really are what they appear to be.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Which is kind of exactly counter to how the world is working, right?

DUFFY: Right.

BOLDUAN: Everything moves faster. Everything is in there so much, especially when it's coming from a top executive.

DUFFY: Right.

BOLDUAN: It's like, don't question my authority kind of aura around them where you can see this becoming such a big problem. Fascinating. Great work, Clare.

DUFFY: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Attorney General Pam Bondi is about to be in the hot seat facing questions on Capitol Hill about the Epstein files and accusations of choosing politics over the law.

Also, breaking overnight, new threats by President Trump, floating the idea of using the Insurrection Act to deploy National Guard troops to blue cities and states and soliciting help from red state governors to do it.

And on Mount Everest, rescue crews still trying to evacuate hundreds of hikers that were trapped in a blizzard.

I'm Sara Sidner with Kate Bolduan and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And we are standing by to hear from Attorney General Pam Bondi. Very shortly, she faces questions from the Senate Judiciary Committee. She is smack in the middle of all kinds of hot button issues.

You're looking at live pictures of the hearing room right now. Among those many issues, the president's order to send National Guard troops into Chicago. That issue is before a federal judge right now, with the president saying he will use the Insurrection Act if he wants to.

Bondi also likely to face questions about the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey. He is set to be arraigned tomorrow. Comey was indicted just days after the president publicly pressed Bondi to take action.

There are also the ongoing calls for the Department of Justice to release all of its case files on Jeffrey Epstein. So many things to discuss.

With us now is Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois. He is the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee. He will be middle of these hearings today. Senator, thanks so much for being with us.

I brought up James Comey, who will be arraigned tomorrow. People have raised concerns about the weaponization, so-called weaponization of the Justice Department. What guardrails exist here? And what do you want to hear from the Attorney General on this?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Very few guardrails. And James Comey's prosecution is a classic example. This is a situation where the Trump administration put a U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia, who looked at the case and said, we don't have enough evidence to convict. The president didn't care for that answer and says so on his tweet. And so that U.S. attorney was dismissed, and one more to his liking was sent in. A young lady with no prosecutorial experience was told to take a look at it after the president gave her his advice.

No surprise, she found out that Comey should be prosecuted. It's an indication how you can tear down the moral -- the morale and the integrity of an agency like the Department of Justice.

BERMAN: I do want to ask you sort of the flip side of that. Senate Republicans just announced that the FBI -- and I'm reading from a CNN right here -- as part of special counsel Jack Smith's January 6th investigation, used court orders in 2023 to obtain phone records of nine Republican lawmakers, a move that some Republicans are calling political weaponization.

What concerns, if any, do you have about that, about getting records from sitting U.S. lawmakers? DURBIN: I do have concerns about it, and it should be investigated. What we're seeing is the politicization and the weaponization of the Department of Justice under President Trump. That doesn't excuse any other president's conduct.

But when we take a look at the situation here, let me give you an example. A man named Jared Wise was in the January 6th rebellion here in the Capitol. He was on videotape saying F the police, kill the police.

Guess what he's doing now? Senior advisor to Attorney General Bondi. A man who said that about our police risking their lives to keep us safe has now become a top advisor in the Department of Justice.

Attorney General Bondi, you have a chance to explain that today.

BERMAN: As I said, you are the senior senator from Illinois. Right now, National Guard, Texas National Guard, poised perhaps to move into the Chicago area. The issue is before a federal judge right now, but President Trump suggested that no matter what the court rules, he could choose to send in the troops based on the Insurrection Act.

[08:05:00]

What do you think about that?

DURBIN: He's stretching it way beyond the language of the law. He knows it, but that's the way he does things. He's going to do what he wants to do and let the courts see if they can stop him.

What's happening in Illinois is outrageous to think that they're going to federalize the Texas National Guard and send them into my state. It's not only unnecessary, it is almost criminal in its behavior. These men and women in the National Guard are serving our country in every state.

Now they're being used as political pawns for the political theater of President Trump. It is not necessary for law and order in our state, and it's just a political theater.

BERMAN: What are the larger stakes here that might go beyond the Trump administration? What if the courts do decide that broadly speaking, it's legal for a president to use National Guard troops like this? What might it mean for policing going forward in the country?

DURBIN: I really -- take a step back. My colleague, Senator Duckworth, who served 23 years in the Illinois National Guard made it clear in a program this last Sunday. These men and women in the Guard are not trained in law enforcement because the law does not allow them posse comitatus to participate in law enforcement, and to use them in that capacity is not fair to them.

It's certainly not fair to the legitimate law enforcement in our state.

BERMAN: I want to ask you, obviously, I think we're day seven now of the government shutdown. There don't appear to be serious discussions taking place behind the scenes either among senators on their own or among the leadership. Axios this morning, Mark Caputo, is reporting that inside the White House there's a memo going around that furloughed federal workers will not be guaranteed compensation for their forced time off during the government shutdown.

That's according to a draft White House memo described to Axios by three sources. So, A, how do you feel about that if the decision is made not to give back pay to furloughed workers? And how does it make you feel about having this shutdown extended?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you I'm very concerned about it. I think the law is clear. These federal workers will have their paycheck delayed but not eliminated.

If the Trump administration is now arguing that they're going to eliminate the paychecks of those who are furloughed, that is an outrage. It is in violation of the law. What is this all about?

We believe it's about the health care expenses that American families are facing. What we're asking the Republicans to do is simply sit down and agree with us that they made a mistake in the Big, Beautiful Bill in jeopardizing the helping hand that we give to people who have health insurance through the Affordable Care Act. The American people overwhelmingly agree with us, Democrats, Republicans, and Independents.

This should be the subject of a negotiation this afternoon and the end of this standoff when it comes to the budget of the United States.

BERMAN: What's the way out of this shutdown? If the Republicans came to you and said, you know what, we will have the discussion. Let's agree now, end the shutdown, and then the meaningful discussion on extending health care.

Is there a way where you can both get to yes on that, where you can end the shutdown first, then have the talks?

DURBIN: Well, of course, but it has to be a clear resolution that's going to work, not a promise of the future. What I'm saying is that people are receiving notices now that their health insurance premiums are doubling, doubling. If you think people are having trouble with family budgets now, wait until this new provision from the Big, Beautiful Budget comes in from President Trump. That has to be taken care of.

And we should agree as well that the bipartisan appropriations process is the key to moving forward and funding our government. If that agreement will reach this afternoon, I think we can see an end to this impasse.

BERMAN: Senator Dick Durbin, we will be watching you very shortly in these Judiciary Committee hearings with the Attorney General. Thanks so much for being with us before. Appreciate it -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: So this morning, Jeffrey Epstein's survivors are speaking out and why the client list that they said they would compile on their own might never see the light of day.

Plus, new video shows the vandal -- a vandal, breaking into the Washington state capital with a hammer to topple statues and set flags on fire.

And a high school student working as a server at a restaurant in Louisiana comes to the rescue, saving a customer's life.

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SIDNER: New this morning, the same day the Supreme Court declined to hear Ghislaine Maxwell's appeal to have her criminal conviction overturned for recruiting and grooming teenage girls for sexual abuse by Jeffrey Epstein, President Trump was asked by our Kaitlan Collins if he's considering pardoning Maxwell now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, I haven't heard the name in so long. I can say this, that I'd have to take a look at it. I have a lot of people who've asked me for pardons.

I call them Puff Daddy has asked me for a pardon.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: But she was convicted of child sex trafficking.

TRUMP: Yes, I mean, I'm going to have to take a look at it. I have to ask DOJ. I didn't know they rejected it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Maxwell is currently serving a 20 year federal prison sentence for her crimes. Trump's comments came after the Supreme Court, as you mentioned, rejected taking up the case from Maxwell. She claims she should have been shielded from prosecution under a plea agreement that Jeffrey Epstein struck with federal authorities -- Kate.

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BOLDUAN: And right along that line, this morning some of Jeffrey Epstein's victims are now speaking up. They're wary of compiling a client list of their own after announcing that they would do that about one month ago. Survivors, you remember, gathered on the Capitol steps in early September to demand transparency and accountability finally around the Jeffrey Epstein investigation that the Justice Department has dragged its feet to produce.

One central focus has been that supposed client list. Epstein's survivors demanding it be released if it exists. Lawmakers even promised to read it from the House floor. And now victims have a new set of fears that they're facing around this.

CNN's MJ Lee has this new reporting. And MJ, what are you learning? MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, you mentioned that press conference about a month ago on Capitol Hill featuring the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein. And one moment from that press conference really stood out to a lot of people. It was the moment where Epstein survivor Lisa Phillips announced that the survivors were going to basically come together and compile their own Epstein list.

Let's just quickly listen to that moment to get everyone reminded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA PHILLIPS, JEFFREY EPSTEIN VICTIM: Us Epstein survivors have been discussing creating our own list. We know the names. Many of us were abused by them.

Now together as survivors, we will confidentially compile the names we all know who regularly and who are regularly in the Epstein world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: So it's been about a month and we set out to find out. So how the survivors actually been working to compile their own Epstein list?

We spoke with a number of survivors. We spoke with lawyers representing dozens of victims. And we also spoke with congressional staffers who are involved in Epstein investigations on The Hill. And what all of them told me was that they're not aware, at least so far, of any kind of coordinated effort by the survivors to put together such a list and that they also hadn't been contacted about efforts to do such a thing.

But not only that, Kate, and I think this part is really important. Some of the survivors and the lawyers that I spoke to said that this is basically a really bad idea. And there are a couple of reasons that they mentioned.

They said for one, it's kind of dangerous. You know, they are talking about and they know that many of Epstein's associates were very powerful, wealthy, influential people. And the idea of the survivors publicly accusing them of wrongdoing, they know that that is going to open them up to a number of threats, whether they are physical threats or legal threats.

They also said at the end of the day, this is not our job, that the whole point is that they would like for the federal government to be a lot more in the information that they are sharing about Jeffrey Epstein and that it basically shouldn't be on them to finish the job that they feel like the federal government hasn't finished.

There is also, interestingly, a wariness when it comes to the usage of the term client list. And that is because a lot of these survivors feel like using the term the client list and focusing on that in particular basically ends up ignoring many others who perhaps didn't participate in physical abuse of these victims, but still nevertheless were involved in enabling and financing Jeffrey Epstein and his wrongdoings.

This is what one Epstein survivor, Liz Stein, told me. She said, We're seeing a lot of pressure put on us directly for us to release names, for us to expose these people. But I don't think that anyone understands the risks to us in doing that. She said it is not our job.

Now, I did speak with Lisa Phillips, the survivor who said at the press conference that they were going to put together this list. And she told me, look, the intention was to send a message to any Epstein survivor that is out there who might be afraid to speak, that she is there to listen. And she said the survivors are thinking through next steps. And if there is any kind of Epstein list, that that would be in the possession of the lawyers who are working for these victims.

But, Kate, just bringing this full circle back to that moment at the press conference, you'll remember that when Lisa made this announcement, it was met with cheers and applause. And I think that moment really captured how much desire there is, how much push there is for there to be more transparency about this Epstein investigation. And I don't think that push for transparency is going away anytime soon.

BOLDUAN: But you make -- you highlight two really important pieces. Calling it a client list is probably not the right thing to do. An associate's list or something like that is something, I mean, words matter here very much.

I think that's actually a really good point. And overarching all of it, this should not be on them. They have been victims -- victimized over and over again.

This should be those who are empowered to hold those accountable, having already done it. Great reporting, MJ. Thank you so much for highlighting it -- John.

BERMAN: All right. These flight delays brought to you by the government shutdown, what has begun to happen at airports across the country.

[08:20:00]

And a school bus crashes into a home. We've got new reporting on how this happened.

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SIDNER: New this morning. If you're flying, you should check for delays. A fallout from the government shutdown at airports across the country.

One example, the control tower at Hollywood Burbank Airport went dark because it had no air traffic controllers manning the tower. Phoenix, Denver, Chicago, D.C. all are now hitting what the FAA calls staffing triggers as high numbers of air traffic controllers call out sick.

CNN Aviation correspondent Pete Muntean is joining us now. Look, you have talked ad nauseum about the fact that there's already a shortage of air traffic controllers. Now this, what's happening out there?

MUNTEAN: Well, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy just said on Fox, he does not support controllers not coming into work.

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SIDNER: Air traffic controllers, now this, what's happening out there?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy just said on Fox, he does not support controllers not coming into work. And the FAA is telling me today, so far, so good. They are not expecting enough controller sick calls anywhere in the U.S. today for the FAA to implement flight delays in the name of safety.

But we know how quickly that can change like it did last night. You can understand the burnout these controllers are facing when you consider all 11,000 of them are still required to work without pay during this shutdown. Layer that against the fact that so many have been working mandatory overtime for years because of a nationwide controller shortage.

So it just makes sense that only a week into the shutdown, some controllers have just had enough. The FAA implemented staffing delays are now over for Newark Liberty International Airport, Denver International Airport and Hollywood Burbank International Airport.

Burbank is interesting because the staffing shortage there was so deep that the tower went into what's called ATC zero, no controllers working. And here is what controllers were telling pilots right as the tower was about to close around 4:15 local time on Monday evening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PILOT: Just getting a heads up, you said everything's closed for like our clearances.

VOICE: Clearance is closed, ground is closed, local is closed. The tower is closed due to staffing, please contact SoCal on the 800 number and the green book for your clearance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: The Union of Air Traffic Controllers tells me in a new statement that this just shows how fragile the air traffic control system is right now. Remember, this very same thing ended the 35 government shutdown back in 2019. Controllers started calling out sick that led to ground stop and then delays for some of the country's busiest airports. And when that happened, lawmakers reached a deal pretty fast.

The impacts of a government shutdown could be pretty ambiguous, Sara, but this really shows how it affects real people. By the way, controllers have not missed a paycheck yet. They get their last paycheck, a partial paycheck next Tuesday. SIDNER: Yes, I mean, those are all good points. But as you said, this is the last straw for them as they have been dealing already with these shortages and having to suck it up for so many years. Thank you so much, Pete Muntean. Great reporting from you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: The Texas National Guard is headed to Chicago as President Trump is now floating the idea of taking a new tactic to deploy troops to American cities.

And hundreds of climbers still stranded on Mount Everest after this freak blizzard. One woman using cooking pots for learning to dig her way out.

We've got the on those rescue efforts. We'll be back.

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