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Former FBI Chief James Comey To Be Arraigned In Federal Court; Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI) On Federal Workers Being Unpaid Until Shutdown Ends; Egyptian Media: "Expanded Meeting" To End War In Gaza To Begin Soon. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 08, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:30:25]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. That's a live look this morning outside the Virginia home of James Comey. We are standing by for the former FBI director to depart for his first appearance in federal court after he was indicted under pressure from President Trump.

Comey is set to be arraigned on two counts: making a false statement and obstructing a congressional proceeding stemming from testimony that he gave in 2020. Comey says he is innocent and expects to plead not guilty.

With us now is CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig, the author of the brand new outstanding book "When You Come at the King," which is about special counsels, which we will get to actually in a minute because there's a very big tie-in here, Elie.

But first, what exactly happens today and what are you looking for in terms of any possible nuance here from either Comey or the judge?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, AUTHOR, "WHEN YOU COME AT THE KING: INSIDE DOJ'S PURSUIT OF THE PRESIDENT, FROM NIXON TO TRUMP": So John, a lot of business to take care of today.

First, Jim Comey will be arraigned. He will be advised of the charges against him, and he will enter a plea -- almost certainly a not guilty plea.

What's going to be so unusual and notable about that moment is Jim Comey grew up as a prosecutor on the other side of the courtroom. He was the Deputy Attorney General of the United States. He was director of the FBI. Now he's going to be sitting at the defense table.

He will be read the charges by the judge. He will surely plead not guilty.

There's also some ministerial stuff. They'll make sure he has an attorney, which he does. He has hired Pat Fitzgerald, another former federal prosecutor. The judge will set bail. He will not -- Jim Comey will not be given any bail conditions. He will not be locked up. He will be free to go.

But here is what I'm really looking for. Will we get a sense of what motions Jim Comey will bring? He might move to dismiss this case based on selective prosecution. He wouldn't file the motions today, but his lawyer might well say judge, we intend to challenge this based on selective or vindictive prosecution. He's been picked out for political reasons.

The other thing I'm looking at is timing. Will they set a trial date? Things tend to move very quickly in the Eastern District of Virginia. Could we be looking at a trial, say, early in 2026? I think that's a distinct possibility.

BERMAN: Now, I think it was ABC News that was the first to report that former special counsel John Durham, who was investigating all kinds of things before and during the Trump administration and the early Biden administration, looked at Comey -- looked at this very carefully and decided not to prosecute.

So how could that play here, Elie? And insofar as you explain that, remind us of what prosecutors will need to prove because it relates to that.

HONIG: Yeah. So first of all, what prosecutors have charged Jim Comey with here is lying to Congress. They say that he falsely testified that he never authorized anyone to leak when he was FBI director. But the allegation is, in fact, that's false and he had authorized somebody to leak.

Now, the John Durham development is so interesting because people may remember this guy was the investigator's special counsel who came in after Mueller. And Durham's whole mandate and obsession was finding anything that had been done wrong in that 2016-ish period when Jim Comey was director of the FBI.

John Durham ends up spending four years as special counsel. He digs up every rock available. He looks under -- anywhere possible for evidence that he can charge anyone. He ends up charging three people. One of them is a low-level FBI attorney. He gets a guilty plea, and he gets probation. The other two go to trial and get acquitted -- not guilty verdicts.

So here you have the most aggressive prosecutor imaginable, desperate to charge anyone, and he reportedly spoke with the current Comey prosecution team and told them I did not see any basis to charge Jim Comey. And so the bottom line is if John Durham didn't see a way to prosecute Jim Comey, I don't know that any such a way exists.

So I think that's a really important indicator as to the strength or lack of strength of the case we have now.

BERMAN: And does Comey's team have access to Durham and his explanation for why he didn't prosecute? HONIG: So they certainly have access to his very long report, which is

public. They can try to interview Durham. They can perhaps subpoena him. I don't know that you can call John Durham as a trial witness to look at a jury in a Comey case and say I didn't see any reason to indict him. That's probably not admissible. But investigatively, I think they certainly can look at that and talk to John Durham and see what he -- what he found.

But also, it's just I think helpful for us --

BERMAN: Yes.

HONIG: -- to know in the public when we're assessing the strength of the case against Comey now.

BERMAN: And you can read all about it in this great new book "When You Come at the King" by Elie Honig.

Great to see you, counselor. Appreciate it -- Kate.

HONIG: Thanks, John -- appreciate it.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So the federal government has now been shut down for eight days and there is really no end in sight. And for the 750,000 furloughed federal workers doing their jobs without pay it might get even worse with President Trump suggesting now that they may not get back pay.

[07:35:00]

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DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It really depends on who you're talking about. But for the most part we're going to take care of our people. There are some people that really don't deserve to be taken care of, and we'll take care of them in a different way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Now a reminder. President Trump was actually the one who signed into law in his first term a guarantee that workers actually get that back pay when furloughed, so there's that.

Unfortunately, that might be just the beginning of the pain that's coming the longer this shutdown drags on.

Our friends at Axios helped kind of piece together a stark reality of the pressure that will mount and the hardship that will come over just the course of this month, and it will begin then on Friday. October 10 is the last day that federal workers get their paychecks for work done in September. All work that began in October is unpaid until the shutdown ends. And as you just heard, that may now not be guaranteed.

The following Monday, the Senate was scheduled to kick off a week of recess. This is supposed to be a time for fundraisers, campaigning, district work, and important -- let's just be honest -- personal matters. All will likely need to be rescheduled or canceled.

Then, on October 15, that is an important date. You can circle that one because that is when members of the U.S. military will start to miss their paychecks.

And over this next week or so, WIC, the federal food assistance program for nearly seven million pregnant women, new moms, young children will run out of money. The Trump administration, though, now is saying that it will somehow try to use tariff revenue to at least keep money flowing there.

Then on Saturday, the 18th, No Kings protests are planned once again, and this will happen across the country. That is relevant to this whole conversation because some Republicans are suggesting that they think that Democrats will hold out on negotiations until then. So mark that one.

Then a couple of days later, October 20, take a look at that. That is when Senate staff -- they miss their first whole paycheck, which is a bitter pill to swallow considering their bosses, the senators, will continue getting paid. The same thing then happens on Halloween for House staffers forced to miss their paychecks even as their bosses continue to get paid.

Now, this whole calendar -- when you look at it altogether, it is a lot, but it is the reality of the situation that Congress and the White House has forced the country into -- one that will only end of Washington puts politics aside and gets back to work. So prepare for a long month ahead.

Let's talk about this now. Joining us right now is Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan. Thanks so much for coming in. I appreciate your time.

You heard the president -- that sound bite I played -- the president there -- that clip -- saying that some federal workers maybe won't get back pay. Axios reported on the memo that suggested that they're looking at it. That they don't need to get paid back.

And the Speaker of the House -- his take on it was -- that he said, Congresswoman, he personally thinks furloughed workers should get back pay but then said this: "But there are some legal analysts who are saying that they may not be appropriate or necessary in terms of the law requiring that back pay be provided."

So what do you think about this?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI) (via Webex by Cisco): Well, first of all, good morning, Kate.

One of the first things that I did last week on Thursday was to meet with air traffic controllers. TSA would not allow TSA officers or workers to meet with us, and I wasn't going to get anybody in trouble. But FAA did allow us to meet with the air traffic controllers.

Look, pointblank, they're tired of being a ping-pong ball, feeling like they're in the middle of a political battle. They support -- they know how much health insurance is going to go up. One of them has a wife who has got a small business and her insurance -- she could not believe what had happened to her insurance premiums.

But these are men and women. They're already working very high-stress jobs and are now worrying about how they're going to pay the mortgage, make a car payment. What's going to happen to their credit ratings? How are they going to pay for daycare?

So look, I know that's real, and I am worried about it every single day -- the way that I am about the military.

So what the president said yesterday was just another political ping- pong ball and it is required by law that we pay these workers. We will do everything that we have to make sure that they do have to be paid. Many Republicans agree with us. And we've got enough at stake without continuing to make government workers, especially essential government workers, feel the stress that they might not even be paid for this work. So it angered me very deeply.

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

I want to ask you about a couple of things in there, but just on when you're talking about -- talking about what's happening at airports. We're seeing the hurt and you are hearing the hurt. I mean, we're seeing impacts -- we've got shutdowns and air traffic control staffing issues, delays in major cities like Houston, Newark, Las Vegas, Nashville, Boston.

Detroit is a huge airport. What are you hearing is going to happen there?

[07:40:00]

DINGELL: Look, I'm very proud. I talk and meet with these men and women regularly because I want to know their issues. I was there this summer. They are already understaffed. They need resources.

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

DINGELL: I have been working to try to get that done.

They are committed to doing their jobs. They are committed to keeping people safe. But let's be honest. These are real human beings who are feeling the stress of being caught in the midst of this government shutdown.

But I also want to say to you there was a real recognition of the why and a belief -- maybe they're being more careful in what they say but people on the outside -- that there is a desire to try to destroy federal government unions.

And, you know, these unions have really earned -- when they get something for government workers everybody benefits from it, and I don't think people realize that either. I don't think people realize that unions have given us safe workplaces, or 40-hour workweeks, or health care benefits, which are now going to go up because of everything that has happened this year.

BOLDUAN: One of the things that has happened just over the last day -- because a lot of this is what is the dynamic and where do things stand. One of the things is this surprise announcement from Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is breaking from the party now, saying that she supports extending the health care subsidies that are kind of the center -- part of the center of this.

She is -- she said that she's angry. She says, "...when the tax credits expire this year my own adult children's insurance premiums for 2026 are going to double." And she says not a single Republican in leadership talked to us about it and she's very upset that it's going -- that they're going to double.

Do you think that changes the dynamic here?

DINGELL: I'm pleased that my colleague talked about it publicly.

I want to tell you, Kate, I've been in the hospital for the last three days. My mother has been seriously ill, so I get there early and stay late. And to be me right now in that hospital and the number of people that see me walking the hall or going to get something to eat, everybody stops me. Everybody has a story. Everybody has got an anxiety. And be it the patients, the family of the patient, the doctors and the nurses and what they're seeing in an already broken health care system.

We have to address this. And it's not just the cost of premiums. People can't find caregivers when people are sent out. We're not getting enough doctors because they can't afford to go to medical school. It -- there are so many things that we need to fix and all we're doing is making it worse.

And what we did in the big, blank bill and now these insurance premiums, people aren't going to be able to afford it. It's going to put more people in the emergency room. It's going to put more pressure on a broken health care system. And at some point, you've got to fight. You've got to fight so the Americans have access to health care and that we fix what's wrong.

BOLDUAN: A big part -- you've seen many a shutdown. I've covered many a shutdown and many government funding fights. And at its core -- yes, there's policy. But at its core, when it gets to where it is right now, it's politics. And it's gross because you're talking about the people that you're meeting with, and the TSA workers that are stuck in the middle of this, and military members who aren't going to get paid.

So where is the point that you can, and maybe you can't, get past the politics, or where is the point that the pain of the now, which is the government is shut down and it's hurting people, becomes too painful to hold out any more on the subsidies and what you say is trying to avoid the pain of the very near future?

DINGELL: You know, I would say, first of all, that I would ask the president to please meet with the Democratic leaders. His very first meeting with them was last week. He does not know Hakeem Jeffries. I wish he'd quite demeaning him and his memes as well. But -- or would he give permission to John Thune and the speaker to, like, sit down and talk. I think that there are senators that talk to each other.

But, I mean, we've -- I stayed -- until my mother went in the hospital, I was in Washington with Hakeem. We were ready, willing, able to go to a table, do bipartisan discussions, and that's what we need. We need to come together. We need -- bipartisanship is not a dirty word. I've said that forever.

Let's go to the table. Let's roll up our sleeves. Let's address these issues because there are some very serious issues.

You know -- and I'm going to make this point. We had to come back during the Fourth of July week to make sure the billionaires got their tax cuts. Why can't we make sure working men and women across this country who are getting their premium estimates now and whose exchange opens on November 1 -- that means it's now. The moment is now. Why can't we come together and do something for the working men and women in this country?

[07:45:00]

BOLDUAN: And that is an important question for every member of Congress right now.

And a -- just on behalf of everyone on my team, I'm so sorry that your mother is still not doing well. I'm really sorry that she's still in the hospital. We wish her very well.

Thanks for coming in -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

A half dozen former surgeons general appointed by both Republican and Democratic presidents, just issued a warning about where we're headed with our country's health care.

In a Washington Post op-ed they said simply, "We are compelled to speak with one voice to say that the actions of Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. are endangering the health of the nation." They end the letter by saying Secretary Kennedy is entitled to his views, of course, but not to put people's health at risk.

Joining me now is CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner. Thank you so much for being here.

Those are all former officials -- they worked under, you know, both Republicans and Democrats -- who wrote this. And they wrote furthermore that they cannot ignore the profound, immediate, and unprecedented threat of RFK's policies.

Is this a fair warning?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST, PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE AND SURGERY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY (via Webex by Cisco): It is. And I would say that it's unprecedented, except one month ago nine former CDC directors issued exactly the same warning.

And as you said, these surgeons general of the -- of the United States basically represent just about every surgeon general serving in this country since the administration of George Herbert Walker Bush. And these are not partisan hacks with grievances or grudges. These are people who have devoted their life to the public health of the United States, and they use really serious words.

In the subhead for the editorial -- the op-ed -- they said we took an oath to declare dangers when we found them, and we're doing that now.

You know, they are sound -- they are sounding an alarm. And they are not saying they're not looking into the future and seeing potential threats. They are saying that the house -- our public health house is on fire right now.

SIDNER: And the way that it's on fire, they put in there, is about the prioritization of ideology over science, as they put it.

REINER: Yeah.

SIDNER: And they talked about the number of people that are fleeing these departments. The talent that is leaving. The scientists that are leaving, which is putting the public in danger.

So it begs the question should the public trust the agencies like the CDC and the NIH that are overseen by RFK Jr. and his new policies?

REINER: Well, the problem is that the wonderful, amazing, talented people -- public servants who work at NIH and CDC and FDA are -- have really come under the thumb of the civilian leadership.

Mr. Kennedy is not a physician. He's not -- he's not a scientist. Yet he personally is moving on policy in terms of vaccines and the whole thrust of all of these agencies under his -- under his control.

HHS is a $2 trillion agency and it's being hollowed out. Over 20,000 people have either been fired or left since this administration -- since basically the purges began.

CDC now is being run by not a physician, or a scientist, or an epidemiologist, or an infectious disease doctor. It's being run by a former hedge fund manager. And the entire thrust is to carry out the will of the Secretary Kennedy.

And these are unprecedented times and the threat is real, and America's greatest doctors are sounding the alarm.

SIDNER: What do you think the long-term impacts of what RFK is doing with HHS is to the American public and to American health care?

REINER: Yeah. So, you know, there are two impacts. There's the immediate impact and we're starting to see that now with change in vaccine policy.

The acting CDC director yesterday urged pharmaceutical manufacturers to start producing monovalent, meaning single antigen components of the MMR vaccine despite the absence of any data suggesting that the combination MMR vaccine is either unsafe or associated with autism.

So there's that immediate effect and on the availability of vaccines going forward.

[07:50:00]

But in the longer-term maybe the even greater profound effect to the United States will be the loss of the world's greatest scientists working in our institutions. Why would -- why would a young, talented scientist go to NIH now when they can either go to industry or they can go to other countries and carry out their research without basically the censorship of the American government?

SIDNER: Hmm.

REINER: It's a -- it's a really -- it's a -- it's a -- it's a profound threat to the health of this country and research in this country.

SIDNER: Yeah. It's a really big and serious warning from you and from those nine surgeons general.

I really do appreciate your look at this, Dr. Jonathan Reiner. Appreciate you coming on this morning -- John.

BERMAN: All right. New this morning, gold boom. For the first time ever gold prices closed above $4,000 per ounce. Why?

CNN's Matt Egan is here. This is very different than other gold booms in the past.

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah, John. Look, it's been just a gangbusters year for gold, and normally that is not a good sign about the state of affairs in the world, right? Gold is where investors go not when they're feeling good but when they feel like the world is on fire. And we are talking about historic gains.

So this is year-to-date gains for gold compared to annual gains in the past 20 years. And look, they are talking about bigger gains this year than after 9/11, after the 2008 financial crisis, after COVID. Bigger than even during the inflation crisis under President Biden. In fact, this 52 percent gain, so far this year, puts gold on track for its best year since 1979. And keep in mind that was a time when there was double-digit inflation --

BERMAN: Yeah.

EGAN: -- in the United States and a global energy crisis, right? So it's just truly stunning.

Now what's unusual is the fact that gold is going up even as the stock market is booming as well. Look at this. Gold, another 1.3 percent gain today above $4,000. Keep in mind it was just back in March when gold was crossing $3,000 for the first time ever.

And it kind of feels like all of the fears that the stock market shrugs off --

BERMAN: Um-hum.

EGAN: -- day after day -- they're showing up in gold instead, right? I mean, the stock market at the moment might not care that much about all the turbulence out of Washington but it seems like gold does, right, whether we're talking about the president's efforts to reshape trade with historically high tariffs, the attacks on the Federal Reserve. Move after move that has sort of alarmed some investors and hasn't shown up in the stock market, it is showing up in gold.

One really key point though is the fact that this is happening, in part, because the U.S. dollar is having a terrible year. And gold is priced in dollars, so the lower that the dollar goes, the more dollars you need to pay for gold.

One last point. Ken Griffin, the billionaire hedge fund investor who backed President Trump in the last election -- he said it's really concerning that there's been this move away from the dollar and into gold because it's, in some ways, an indictment of the U.S. dollar.

BERMAN: It usually sets off alarm bells. We'll see what happens here.

Matt Egan, great to see you.

EGAN: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: Thank you very much.

All right, brand-new video of a tense moment at sea. An aid ship intercepted before reaching land. And it's like an episode of "LASSIE" except no one fell down a well here. A hero dog leads police to an 86- year-old injured grandmother. We've got all the details.

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[07:57:47]

SIDNER: This just in. Egyptian media is reporting that an expanded meeting to end the war in Gaza is about to get underway in Egypt. U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner are attending that meeting as is, reportedly, Israel's chief negotiator Ron Dermer.

Let's go right now to CNN's Nic Robertson who is in Cairo. What can you tell us about what you are learning from there in Cairo?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah. I think there's a real sense of momentum here and of potential. You know, the thing that everyone has been hoping for hasn't slipped from grasp so far.

We know that the head of Egyptian intelligence, the head of Turkish intelligence, along with the Qatari prime minister are there at the talks as well. The talks began about four hours ago. Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff joined, we understand, about an hour ago. We're getting some details from Hamas that indicate that they're getting into specifics in the negotiations.

And if you will, what we hear from Hamas is their wish list. And one of the things that's at the top of their wish list is to get a guarantee from President Trump that if they agree to hand over all their hostages they want this guarantee that Israel won't go back to war again. And they're looking to President Trump to give that. That's a big ask, of course. They wanted it before, and they haven't had it.

But a name that has come up in the prisoner exchange -- the prisoner -- Palestinian prisoners -- not a Hamas prisoner but Hamas is saying Marwan Barghouti, convicted in 2002 of five murders and said he was innocent, in jail -- Hamas is saying they want him freed as well. He is seen as a very, very important Palestinian politician -- a unifying figure. One who could potentially take over from Mahmoud Abbas. So they're asking for a big deal there as well.

Of course, there are so many other details we're not aware of, but it does show that they're getting into some of the weeds here.

SIDNER: And we will see what the results will be.

Nic Robertson, thank you so much for your reporting there in Cairo, Egypt this morning for us -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: So if you are among the millions of fans who are worried about Dolly Parton, everyone in this studio included, you can now breathe a bit easier now. Her sister Freida says that she wants to clear up some rumors after first saying that -- what she'd said was that she was "up all night praying for Dolly's recovery." Now, Freida now says on social media last night that she did not mean to scare anyone with her comments and clarified that Dolly has been "a little under the weather."