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Former FBI Chief to Appear for Arraignment; Polls Show Where People Are Getting Their News; Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-IN) is Interviewed about the Shutdown; Gaza Meeting Today. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 08, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:31:29]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a live look now outside former FBI Director James Comey's home in Virginia. No, we're not being weird. We're expecting to see him depart this morning ahead of being arraigned in federal court. An unprecedented move here. Comey is facing federal charges of obstructing a congressional proceeding and making false statements to Congress.

Trump fired Comey, as you well remember, in the first few months of his first term over the FBI's investigation into Russian election meddling in the 2016 presidential election. Now, the president very publicly recently leaned on the Justice Department to indict Comey as he seeks retribution against his political enemies.

Joining me now is Democratic strategist Julie Roginsky and CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp.

Julie, to you first.

The president said -- I want to go to -- to some of what the president has been talking about. Actually, I'm not going to do this right now because I want to talk about Comey.

Let's start with Comey. Is there a sort of cloud of, this is retribution? Trump always talked about him being under this witch hunt and now we're seeing him publicly go after, not just Comey, but others like Adam Schiff.

JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, of course. I mean, he's not even denying it. That's the bottom line, is that he's putting out there, very plainly, that he's going after the people that he thinks were unfair to him, whether it was Adam Schiff or Comey or the attorney general, Letitia James, here in New York. So, you're going to continue to see this.

But it's also a message to the rest of us, right? Keep your mouth shut, get on board, or else you might be next. If I can go after somebody as powerful as a former FBI director or United States senator or a attorney general of a major state, I can go after some blogger. I can go after some member of Congress who maybe won't be as high profile. This is how authoritarianism starts and we're fully in it now.

SIDNER: How do you see this, S.E.?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's a win-win for Trump because his voters don't care. His voters don't care that they didn't ask for this. I covered 2024. I talked to probably hundreds of voters as to why they were voting for Trump. None of them said to get revenge. None of them said to go after Comey. But they're here for it. They don't mind this. If he's not getting pushback from his own voters, he's not going to change course. He doesn't lose anything from this. Even if he loses this case, as most legal experts say he will, he doesn't lose for this. He's not going to be punished for this. So, this is a win for him.

SIDNER: Let's talk about the shutdown. We are now going into day eight. We heard something from the president yesterday about whether or not federal workers would get back pay. Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It really depends on who you're talking about. But for the most part, we're going to take care of our people. There are some people that really don't deserve to be taken care of, and we'll take care of them in a different way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: I mean, when you see -- hear that, there are some people that don't deserve to be taken care of, is this about just pushing pain from a political standpoint onto federal workers who are not supposed to be political?

CUPP: Yes. Trump and Republicans are openly, publicly workshopping ideas of how they can make this more painful for more people. And again, there's not typically a lot of sympathy for federal workers. That's just -- it is what it is. Again, he knows he's not going to be punished for even talking like this, even though he's talking as if there are two Americas, one in which some Americans deserve pain for not -- for not doing anything themselves, and some don't. And this works for his base.

It's also a really useful distraction, right? We're in the middle of a shutdown. The economy is tanking. The joblessness is -- is up.

[08:35:02]

We're maybe even at a recession. All of this talk of pain is just a way of saying, don't look over here, I'm working hard for you. I'm doing the business you elected me to do.

SIDNER: Let's talk about what's happening with ICE in these cities. Donald Trump, over and over again, has said that the American cities like Chicago and Portland look like war zones. So, one of our reporters went to Portland to see what was going on. And Shimon Prokupecz, you know, walks you around and shows you it is literally one block of Portland that has protesters. In the daytime, very peaceful. They're standing there with signs and, you know, wearing crazy outfits. And at night there are people who are there who are being more rowdy and -- but, still, a very, very small thing.

So, why do you think this is playing out this way, where he's saying war zones, war zones, war zones. Is he trying to get Americans used to having troops on the streets?

ROGINSKY: Yes. I mean he wants to invoke the Insurrection Act. And if the courts rule against him, as I predict they probably will in Chicago, he's going to invoke the Insurrection Act.

We have to just acknowledge that what's happening right now is that the president of the United States is going to war against American citizens on American soil. And, you know, rather than pretending that this is somehow some major political like, you know, distraction for him, it is the crux of what he is about. He wanted to do this in the first term. He was prevented from doing that by more responsible people. He's now surrounded himself with people like Pete Hegseth and Kristi Noem, who have no problem deploying troops and deploying ICE in this way. He's going to do this. And he has no pushback, either from Congress, which has become completely MAGA-ified (ph) and bent the knee to him, or increasingly from the Supreme Court, which I predict is going to allow him to do this because they don't want a confrontation with him, because they don't want him to ignore their rulings. He's going to do what he wants to do, regardless of what the courts say. And I think the court is terrified of that. So, they're going to go along with what he wants to forestall that kind of confrontation.

SIDNER: I want to -- S.E., I want to ask you about -- and both of you actually, about Democratic messaging. We saw Katie Porter, who is running for governor of California, a former member of Congress, in an interview where she was asked a question about what she would say to the 40 percent or so of people in the state, which -- who voted for Donald Trump, and how she was sort of going to win them back. And here -- here is her response in a CBS interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KATIE PORTER (D), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: And what I'm saying to you is that --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, to those voters, OK, so -- so you --

PORTER: I don't want to keep doing this. I'm going to call it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

PORTER: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're not going to do the interview with us?

PORTER: Nope. Not like this, I'm not. Not with seven follow-ups to every single question you ask.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every other candidate has answered our follow- ups.

PORTER: I don't care. I don't care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Well, the question there was -- that we didn't hear was really important.

SIDNER: Yes.

CUPP: The question being, what are you going to do to win voters who did not vote for -- for Democrats --

SIDNER: Right. Who voted for Trump.

CUPP: Who voted for Donald Trump.

SIDNER: Yes.

CUPP: It's 40 percent of California's electorate. And she said, I don't need them. Which is saying the quiet part out loud. Maybe you don't need them, but the message should of course not be one of entitlement and indignance, but I'm going to reach out to every voter in my state. I want to reach out to everyone because I'm running to be governor for every Californian. She said, I don't need them, and then got very annoyed that this great reporter was pushing back on, what do you -- what do you mean you don't need them? You're going to get every Democratic voter? Forty percent is not a small number of voters. That's a giant voting bloc. And you would need all the Democrats to come out and support you. And I don't know that she has that support.

So, this was a terrible, terrible interview. And it kind of goes to the entitlement that people see Democrats having. They saw Democrats having it in 2024. I think a lot of people rejected that. And this is why you're seeing so many young upstarts, like Zohran Mamdani, like Graham Plattner in Maine, like Omar Fattah in Minneapolis, running against longtime Democratic incumbents who are saying, I'm not going anywhere. I don't care that I'm 80. This is my job. You come take it from me. It's bad messaging.

SIDNER: Is that how you see it?

ROGINSKY: Yes, 100 percent. And I will also go even further to say, the Democrats have a massive -- massive, massive crisis in terms of messaging. I've said that for years. You know, emulating Donald Trump, which is what she just did, effectively saying, you know what, I'm going to only speak to the base. I'm not going to speak to anybody else. That may work for Donald Trump with the MAGA base. It does not work in the Democratic Party. She's absolutely right, what Democrats are looking for is authenticity, and they're looking for people who are building community. And that community has to transcend just our base and include everybody who's fed up with what's going on right now.

I don't see many Democrats doing that. I certainly don't see that happening in leadership on The Hill, which is a massive crisis for Democrats. You're absolutely right about what Mamdani's been able to do here in New York. Like him or hate him on policy, he's been able to create a community of people who probably voted for Donald Trump, some of them, but are energized by him.

AOC certainly has done that. And you continue to see that younger voters and younger elected officials know how to harness that in ways that older ones don't.

[08:40:02]

SIDNER: We have consensus on the desk. Take note, Congress, take note.

Thank you both, Julia Roginsky and S.E. Cupp.

CUPP: Thanks.

SIDNER: Appreciate it.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, this morning, if it is on social media, it must be true. OK, maybe not. But there are some new trends on who is getting what news from where on social media. And for that CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten.

Really interesting trends that you picked up on here. Let's start with the -- the who is getting their news from social media in general now versus a few years ago.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: I just want to note, if I say it on social media, John, it's 100 percent true.

BERMAN: Oh.

ENTEN: You can trust everything. Including that the New York Yankees stink.

But take a look here. I think this is a very clear shift. I would argue it's a monumental shift because, traditionally speaking, folks who got their news off of social media were Democrats. You go back to 2021, 52 percent of Democrats got their news off of social media, compared to just 45 percent of Republicans.

Jump ahead now to this year. What do we see? We see the Republican number up like a rocket. Now you get 55 percent of Republicans who get their news on social media, compared to just 52 percent of Democrats. So, Democrats have stayed steady over the last four years at this point in the Joe Biden administration, while Republicans have seen a ten-point climb. And now more Republicans get their news off of social media. And if you're on social media a lot like I am, I don't think that's too much of a surprise.

BERMAN: No, not at all. Specifically Twitter. If you're on Twitter, you've noticed a shift here.

ENTEN: Oh, I would think so. I think there are a lot of folks who have been on Twitter and may have realized, wait a minute, there seem to be a lot more Republicans in my feed, especially since Elon Musk took over. And oh my goodness gracious, what a tremendous, monumental shift on the regular news consumers, on Twitter/X. You go back to 2021, the party I.D. margin, Democrats were 37 points more likely -- or 37 points more likely to be a Democrat on Twitter or X than a Republican. Jump ahead to this side of the screen. It's completely changed around. Oh, my goodness gracious. Now it's a 14-point lead for Republicans on Twitter/X. We're talking about a 51-point shift in the margin. And John and I were talking about it just before. You can see it with your own eyes. This is polling reflecting what you're seeing in the social media real world, where all of a sudden, John, you just see a lot, a lot more Republicans in your feed.

BERMAN: I like the word social media real world there. I mean --

ENTEN: It's my -- it's real to me, gosh darn it.

BERMAN: OK. So, again, this is a huge shift. You just don't see shifts like this in general.

But what about the idea that there are other social media places that Democrats can go, and maybe that they're going there instead, and that's making up for it all?

ENTEN: Yes, you know, there are a lot of folks that I know who are on the left side of the aisle, who ran over to Bluesky or ran over to Threads. But here's the deal, Johnny-o. The bottom line is, those are minuscule compared to Twitter or X. Use this social media in 2025, 21 percent of Americans are on Twitter or X. Threads, it's just 8 percent. Bluesky even, smaller, just 4 percent. You add together the four plus the eight, that gets you to 12 percent. That is only about half the level that are on Twitter/X. So, as Twitter/X has gone to the right, yes, there are people, as Johnny moves away from me, from the left who have come over and started to use either Threads or Bluesky. But that does not have the megaphone, as my voice is oftentimes, that Twitter/X does.

So, the bottom line that Twitter/X has become much more for the right has been a real difference maker in terms of what folks are hearing when they go into the social media real world.

BERMAN: You don't need a megaphone. Harry Enten, hashtag, thank you very much.

ENTEN: Thank you.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Also, to reinforce, 21 percent is not the whole country.

BERMAN: Yes. It is not.

BOLDUAN: It's not even close.

BERMAN: No.

BOLDUAN: So -- ENTEN: But a lot of difference makers are on it. That is -- that -- a lot -- a lot of -- a lot of our news people are on it.

BERMAN: Do you have a rebuttal?

BOLDUAN: They're not worth it.

BERMAN: Thank you very much.

All right.

BOLDUAN: And, by the way, don't hurt John.

BERMAN: All right.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Where am I going? And I'm here.

All right, horrible news pun alert. Cat-astrophe avoided. How teams of Lowe's employees worked together to bring a beloved lost cat home.

And what started as a noise complaint ended with a dance party. How an officer's smooth moves convinced one party to turn down the music.

I am so here for this.

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[08:48:18]

BERMAN: All right, this morning, President Trump is threatening to withhold back pay from some furloughed federal workers, even if and when the shutdown ends.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It really depends on who you're talking about. But for the most part, we're going to take care of our people. There are some people that really don't deserve to be taken care of, and we'll take care of them in a different way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: With us now is Congressman Marlin Stutzman, a Republican from Indiana.

Congressman, great to see you this morning.

REP. MARLIN STUTZMAN (R-IN): Good morning.

BERMAN: How do you feel about the possibility of these furloughed federal workers not being paid when the shutdown's over?

STUTZMAN: Well, John, great to be with you.

You know, I'll tell you what, the constituents in my district, in northeast Indiana, are very frustrated with the size and scope of Washington, D.C. Obviously, President Trump, and he said later in that interview that he would follow the law as far as back pay, but there's a lot of people across the country that are working hard to make ends meet.

I was talking to a waitress the other day. She's working two jobs. She works in the RV factories, and then she does a waiting job in the evening at a restaurant. She's trying to make ends meet. Cost of living has gone through the roof over the last five years. And so, there's not, frankly, a lot of sympathy towards government employees right now from across the heartland. And people want to see us get the government opened up again. Let's get this economy growing so that way people can put more money in their pockets rather than paying more in taxes.

BERMAN: One issue is that military members will not be paid on October 15th if this shutdown continues? House Speaker Mike Johnson was asked about the possibility of bringing you all back to Washington to vote, to maybe pay them, even as the shutdown continues.

Listen to what he said.

[08:50:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): We're monitoring that day by day. I'm certainly open to that. We've done it in the past. We want to make sure that our troops are paid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, how would you feel about a vote to pay the troops even as the shutdown continues?

STUTZMAN: Sure. I'd be open to doing that, and I would support that.

Here's the thing, you know, is that the Senate has this cloture vote that it takes 60 members of the Senate to vote yes to shut down the debate. So, you need six or seven Democrats to vote with Republicans to -- to move to final passage.

I have long been a critic of the 60 vote cloture vote on budgetary issues. The Senate could just change the rules and have Republicans pass a budget so that way we can open the budget -- or the government back up.

But again, you know, there's this debate over in the Senate regarding that cloture vote. And I think that's, you know, one of the ways that we could move forward because Democrats just simply aren't willing to -- to -- to play along. I think a lot of this is very politically based, whether it's Chuck Schumer, concerned about AOC running against him in a primary, or the Virginia election that's coming up in a month or so, that they have the government employees based in northern Virginia amped up about what's happening.

BERMAN: So, Democrats say they are doing this over the issue of health care and extending the Obamacare subsidies. Republican member of Congress, Marjorie Taylor Greene, seems to be saying she very much wants to see those subsidies extended. She wrote, "I'm absolutely disgusted that health insurance premiums will double if the tax credits expire this year. Not a single Republican leadership talked to us about this or has given us a plan to help Americans deal with their health insurance premiums doubling."

So, what would you say to Marjorie Taylor Greene?

STUTZMAN: I don't know why she wasn't paying attention. I would disagree with her. I mean, look, I'm an employer -- I come from an employer background and my family is still in business. We need to be driving our health care insurance towards employer-based coverage rather than government-based coverage. We -- we -- that's part of our packages, compensation packages to our employees is health care. And if we can't afford it, eventually employers are going to say, sorry, we're out we're just going to let employees go find their coverage through the government based systems. And I think we're a stronger system, economic system, if we have the employers being a part of that.

BERMAN: So --

STUTZMAN: I think that also the hospitals and the insurance companies are the ones that are benefiting the most from these subsidies, rather than the patients themselves.

BERMAN: You mentioned you're a businessman. You're also a fourth generation farmer. Farmers are having a hell of a time this year, particularly soybean farmers, right?

STUTZMAN: Yes.

BERMAN: I mean, China's not buying any soybeans.

STUTZMAN: Yes.

BERMAN: I spoke to a soybean farmer in charge of the American Soybean Federation. This is what he told me he's facing.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CALEB RAGLAND, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN SOYBEAN ASSOCIATION: It's a perfect storm of high cost and low commodity prices. And we're already in a difficult farm economy. And then the trade war started. And that's taking things from bad to worse.

The result is going to be, we're going to have many farms that go out of business and are no longer able to continue raising soybeans and other crops.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, how do you feel about the possibility of a federal bailout to these farmers who say they're suffering because of the tariffs?

STUTZMAN: Well, I do think that President Trump is very aware and very in tune with the ag community. I mean, he's -- this gentleman is right, this is a perfect storm. But most farmers that I have talk to, they're like, you know, we've faced hard times before. My grandfather, he always told me, he's like, you know, Marlin, I always got a crop out in the fields, and now he's got the harvest back in. And that's been for many years.

But I would say, you know, those who are overleveraged and have a lot of debt, that could be difficult. But I was talking to a banker who does a lot of ag lending in northeast Indiana yesterday, and he said, it is -- it is tough. But a lot of these -- these relationships with banks is important.

I think people are -- are going to struggle to make it through, but I think President Trump has a plan. He understands that the tariff policies have created some volatility for agriculture. But one thing I don't want to see is any sort of subsidies given to farmers go straight to John Deere or go straight to the landowner. It needs to go to the farmer to help him pay for the next year's expenses to put the crop out.

BERMAN: Congressman Marlin Stutzman from Indiana, we are a pro-Indiana show here at CNN NEWS CENTRAL. Thanks so much for being with us this morning.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, new video on our radar for you shows the moment an illegal street car race goes terribly wrong. One of the cars tries to flee police, clips another car, crashes and bursts into flames. Police in Farmington, New Mexico, releasing that video. The two people inside that car were rescued and taken to the hospital, somehow surviving that fireball. Police say the driver's charges are pending and the driver of the other car involved in the race is also being charged.

PBS using an icon of art and calm to try to help local stations stay open after massive federal funding cuts that threaten to shut down PBS stations across the country.

[08:55:04]

The work of artists turned TV art teacher Bob Ross, who inspired generations, may be able to help. Thirty paintings created by Ross will soon go up for auction to help support programing on public television. Ross died back in 1995, but his former business partner is behind the fundraising effort. They believe the 30 paintings could raise up to $1.4 million.

And a Lowe's store favorite employee finally back. Thank goodness Francine (ph) is back. Francine is the resident shop cat at the West Broad Street store in Richmond, Virginia. She lived there for eight years, but she went missing last month. After some investigating, employees figured out that she had hopped a truck headed for the distribution center about 85 miles away. But after weeks of tracking her with drones, mind you, and setting some traps, they finally caught Francine and brought her back home.

(VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: I guess he's doing the dougie. I'm not sure what that dance is, but he's enjoying himself. Police by day, dance party by night. Officers in Tulsa, Oklahoma, arrived at a party to issue a citation because there was a complaint about noise. But then one officer decided he just couldn't stop himself from busting a move. The crowd cheered, you could hear that, and agreed to turn down the music.

All is well with the world. Francine is back at Lowe's and police are dancing with those they were going to give a ticket to. It's a good day, Kate. It's a good day.

BOLDUAN: I mean that's -- I think no matter what, you should have to dance when you show up like that. I mean, I'm a huge fan, huge fan of those moves.

SIDNER: I would have liked to have seen this. But, anyway, that's just me.

BOLDUAN: You know what? I just love a little freestyle. Love a little freestyle.

Thanks, Sara.

SIDNER: All right.

BOLDUAN: All right, right now, President Trump's top envoy to the Middle East, Steve Witkoff, his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, are in Egypt for what they are now describing as an expanded meeting to try to reach a Gaza ceasefire deal. This meeting, which is day three of these talks, actually, will get underway moments from now. And a top advisor to the Israeli prime minister, Ron Dermer, he also will be there today.

These big names now arriving really seem to be increasing the pressure on both sides to reach a deal to end the war and bring the hostages home, and also probably raising expectations about this moment.

Joining me right now is CNN international -- CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson, who's in Egypt for more on this.

What's the latest that you're hearing, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, there is that sense of momentum building. Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner, Ron Dermer, the head of Turkish intelligence, Egyptian intelligence, the Qatari prime minister, Hamas proximity talks, of course, they're not in the room with -- with the Israeli delegation there. But we're also hearing this evening that Palestinian Islamic Jihad, an

even sort of hardliner line version of Hamas, if you will, and the PFLP, another Palestinian group, will also be joining the talks. It gives that sense that, you know, there is a possibility here where perhaps it had seemed, you know, impossible to get through some of the deadlock.

What we're hearing Hamas asking for now is something they've asked for before that they haven't been given. They want a guarantee from President Trump that Israel won't go back to war if they hand over all the hostages. Not clear if they'll get that. They're also saying that they want a very senior Palestinian figure released. That also has been a red line in the past.

But the momentum, it's there.

BOLDUAN: Nic Robertson, so thankful you're there. Thank you so much for your reporting, as always.

I want to also bring in right now CNN political and global affairs analyst, Barak Ravid. He's also global affairs correspondent for "Axios."

Barak, give me your take. You've got Jared Kushner, Steve Witkoff, you've got Ron Dermer now on the ground. What are you hearing this means and indicates?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: What I hear from several sources is that there's a lot of optimism on all sides that a deal can be -- can be reached within days. Israeli officials told me that unlike any other round of negotiations in the last eight months, this time it seems that all parties came to the table with real seriousness to -- to reach a deal and not just to negotiate. And I think that's -- that's very important because in previous rounds, everyone were -- were sort of posturing and not really pushing for a deal. Now it seems that it's not the case and that everyone are actually pushing for a deal.

I think something very interesting that I noticed is that Hamas officials and other officials from other Palestinian factions, like the Islamic Jihad, what they say in the last 24 or 48 hours is that they sort of realize that now is their time to cash in, quote/unquote, on the hostages that they hold.

[09:00:04]

That now is the time that they can get the maximum, and now is the time that they need it more than ever.