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National Guard Deployed in Chicago Area; Rep. Robert Garcia (D- CA) is Interviewed about Court Hearings over Deployments; New Jersey Candidates Spar in Final Debate; Polls on the Israelis and Palestinians; Jaimie and Michael Geller are Interviewed about the Palisades Fire; Joan Kowalski is Interviewed about PBS. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 09, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:43]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, new this morning, members of the Texas National Guard had begun their stated mission to protect ICE facilities in the Chicago area as lawyers prepare for two courtroom showdowns on President Trump's deployment of troops in both Illinois and in Oregon. Trump administration lawyers are planning to argue the president should be allowed to deploy troops to guard ICE buildings and protect federal property in both Chicago and Portland.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is outside the Broadview ICE facility, which has really been the hot spot in Chicagoland.

Omar, why don't you tell us what you're seeing?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So this morning we have seen Texas guardsmen out in front of the ICE facility behind that fence behind me. And we know that because, as our cameras were rolling, we observed the "T" patch on their left shoulders which matches the guardsmen that we saw initially at the military reserve center even further outside the city of Chicago. We've been tracking them for a while at this point, John.

But what is most remarkable at this point is this is the closest they have been to the city of Chicago, and it has been over the objections of Governor J.B. Pritzker here in Illinois. And this facility has been so -- such a focal point because this is an ICE detention facility. It has seen a number of protests over the past few weeks, typically swelling in sizes over the weekend, and at -- many times has clashed with federal agents and law enforcement trying to protect this place. And it has turned into tear gas deployed, as neighbors told us, rubber bullets being shot at points as well. And so, if the stated mission is to protect ICE personnel and federal personnel and property, this seems like a logical place that that deployment would start.

The question, though, is, is it legal? And that is what a federal judge is likely going to weigh later this morning during oral arguments as the federal government tries to defend why they believe this is necessary as state and local leaders say that this is unlawful, especially led by Governor J.B. Pritzker and Mayor Brandon Johnson. Those are two people that President Donald Trump has said should be jailed over their failure to protect ICE as Governor Pritzker has pushed back and said, any call up of the National Guard here is unlawful.

And so -- and I should also mention too, while that dynamic is going on, there's also fallout in many of these communities over increased immigration enforcement. We were speaking with a restaurant owner yesterday who told us about how his business and his predominantly Latino neighborhood had been completely hollowed out over the past few months, really over this -- this climate of fear, as he described it to me.

So, a lot of impacts already in place here in the Chicago area, even as we wait to see whether the National Guard deployment is considered lawful.

BERMAN: That's right. I mean we could know within hours whether those troops behind you will even be there in the next few days.

Omar Jimenez, great to see you this morning. We'll let you get back to reporting. Appreciate it.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, further discussion. Joining me now is Democratic congressman from California, Robert Garcia.

As you know -- thank you so much, sir, for coming in. California, a federal judge there blocked the federal government's attempt to deploy those 300 California National Guard soldiers to Portland. Now, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals is expected to take up the case today. Do you -- do you think Trump has a leg to stand on in court in these cases?

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): Look, I hope not. I think at the end of the day what California knows is that in order to bring the National Guard in, and our governor's been right on this issue, you need to have the support of the governor. And this idea that Donald Trump wants to federalize the National Guard, send in the National Guard, send in Marines, send in troops into American cities without the support of the governors and the local mayors is, honestly, really shameful.

At the end of the day, most of these cities need to have the support of their local mayors, of the police departments, to bring in all these federal agents. And these idea that these agents can come in, oftentimes there are other federal law enforcement, they are masked. And we're seeing the images of what's actually happening in the cities is really causing actually more chaos and more damage. Most of these protests we know are peaceful.

And so, we support in California our governor's decision. And I think it's really important that the court, particularly today, does the right thing.

[08:35:02]

SIDNER: I want to get your reaction to what President Trump said during this roundtable on anti-fascists or Antifa, whom he blames for the anti-ICE protests that prompted him, in part, to send the National Guard into Portland and into Chicago. Here is what he said about their ability and their ability to have free speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We took the freedom of speech away because that's been through the courts and the courts said, you have freedom of speech, but what has happened is when they burn a flag, it agitates and irritates crowds. They've never seen anything like it, on both sides. And you end up with riots. So, we're going on that basis. We're looking at it from -- not from the freedom of speech, which I always felt strongly about, but never passed the courts. This is what they do, is they incite -- when you burn an American flag, you incite tremendous violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: What do you think about what he said there?

GARCIA: Look, I mean, some of that was hard to understand it.

I think, obviously, I mean the freedom of speech is foundational to who we are as a country. The right to form assembly, the right to speak out on whatever issue matters to you as an American.

And, you know, if you look at images, for example, of Portland, there is nothing happening. It's peaceful. The folks on the ground there have complete control over what is happening.

And what President Trump should be doing is heeding the call of governors and cities that want more police officers or support to hire additional local officers on the ground. That's what's needed, not bringing in the military or the National Guard into these cities.

And so, look, the courts have generally sided with governors and with cities on these issues. I'm hopeful that that continues.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about what happened in the halls of Congress. New York Representative Mike Lawler confronting a couple of different Democrats, including the House minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries. And he floated this idea saying, look, if you will agree to a one-year extension of the Obamacare subsidies in exchange to vote to reopen the government, then we have a deal. Would you agree to a one-year extension of subsidies so that the government can be funded?

GARCIA: We need to have those subsidies right now. Look, the reason why Mike Lawler and some Republicans want a one-year extension, because they want to get past the 2026 midterms. People need to understand that right now, at this very moment, people's health care premiums are going to, in some cases, double. People can't afford the cost of health care already. And Donald Trump promised he's going to lower the cost of your groceries. That hasn't happened. He's going to lower the cost of housing and of rent. That hasn't happened. And now folks are going to get serious increases to their costs for their health care. Some folks have already been told this through -- through letters and through their own carriers or insurance carriers contacting them. And that's going to occur over the next few weeks.

And so, this idea, at this moment, that we're going to essentially allow health care premiums to go up is absolutely wrong. That's why we're in this fight. That's why we're saying, absolutely not. Let's lower the cost of health care and let's stop giving more huge tax breaks to billionaires in this country.

SIDNER: Right. So, Congressman, there is an offer on the table, Lawler saying, it's a one-year extension that Republicans would agree to if Democrats agree to fund the government, to vote to fund the government. Is that acceptable to you?

GARCIA: That's -- that's not acceptable to us. And the reason is because what that essentially does is it kicks the can down the road so that then those premiums can essentially get hiked a year from now. We need to -- we need to handle right now the cost of health care for the average American, which is about to skyrocket and go up. And so that's why we're in this fight at this moment.

And what we don't understand is why Republicans want to allow health care costs to skyrocket, in some cases double for the average American that's right now on health care. They've already -- they've already damaged our Medicaid system, as we already know. Seventeen million Americans, because of the last tax law that was passed by President Trump, 17 million Americans could have their Medicaid impacted across this country.

Now, they don't want to do anything about saving and strengthening the Affordable Care Act. And so what we're saying is, enough. Let's actually bring health care costs down, and let's stop giving tax breaks to billionaires.

SIDNER: Congressman Robert Garcia, thank you so much for joining us.

And tune in to "THE SITUATION ROOM" later this morning for an interview with Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who has been siding with Democrats when it comes to the health care subsidies.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, personal insults and heated attacks capping off what has been a very contentious final campaign stretch with less than one month to go in the race for New Jersey governor. The two candidates faced off on the stage for their final debate.

Danny Freeman has it all for us in New Jersey this morning.

Danny, what happened?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Kate, this is actually a very fascinating debate. [08:40:02]

As you noted, stakes incredibly high. And this was the final and second debate here before voters who will go to the polls in New Jersey to choose their next governor.

I would say that bit by bit each of these candidates really turned the heat up on one another until it finally boiled over at the ends. But let me just set the stage for our viewers. We're talking about Republican Jack Ciattarelli against Democratic Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill. Both of them agreed that affordability really one of the largest issues facing New Jerseyans.

Ciattarelli blaming Democratic control in Trenton, including in the governor's office. He was promising tax reform across the state to help alleviate that. Mikie Sherrill, the Democrat, saying that President Trump's tariff policy has really hurt New Jerseyans wallets. Also, the one big, beautiful bill is something that she took repeated jabs at over the course of the evening.

I'll say, Kate, there was a lot of substance in this debate when it came to transit, education, even the current shutdown. But then, as I noted, things eventually did devolve.

Ciattarelli scrutinizing parts of Sherrill's time at the Naval Academy, and then Sherrill scrutinizing time Ciattarelli spent in the private sector with a medical publishing company.

Take a look at how this all boiled over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): He was paid to develop an app so that people who were addicted could more easily get access to opioids. And so as he made millions, as these opioid companies made billions, tens of thousands of New Jerseyans died.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Ciattarelli.

MIKE CIATTARELLI (R), NEW JERSEY GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: First of all, shame on you.

Second of all --

SHERRILL: Shame on you, sir.

CIATTARELLI: Shame on you.

I got to walk at my college graduation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) you will get 15 seconds.

SHERRILL: (INAUDIBLE) and I am so glad that you then went on to kill tens of thousands of people in New Jersey, including children --

CIATTARELLI: And I never broke the law. SHERRILL: As they got -- you just broke the law.

CIATTARELLI: I never broke the law.

SHERRILL: In fact, your campaign right now is under federal investigation for how you illegally got access to my records.

CIATTARELLI: No, you've broken the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: Now, obviously, Kate, both campaigns deny any wrongdoing after that exchange right there. But I will note, again, mostly substantive up until that point.

Sherrill has been leading in most polls, but Ciattarelli has been closing the gap in recent weeks. This is likely going to be a nail biter, a race to watch.

One last thing, Kate. The one thing that both of them agreed on, they vowed to protect New Jerseyans ability to have other people pump their own gas. A point of agreement in that debate.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: The one thing that brings all New Jersey together.

FREEMAN: Exactly.

BOLDUAN: But man, oh, man, that debate, sometimes the tone doesn't have to be -- the volume doesn't have to be at ten for the message to be completely and utterly biting. Wow.

Danny, thank you so much.

John.

BERMAN: Kate, shame on you. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Shame on you, sir.

BERMAN: All right, the major breaking news out of the Middle East this morning. We are standing by for the Israeli cabinet to approve the ceasefire deal that could have all Israeli hostages released within days. The Hamas terror attacks on Israel were two years ago now, almost exactly as we sit here at what could be an historic moment. The question is, how have public opinions changed?

CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten is here.

Two years we are on this, the precipice of this big moment.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes.

BERMAN: So, where does public opinion stand? ENTEN: Yes, this war caused an historic shift in public opinion on how

Americans view the Middle East conflict. What are we talking about here? Who voters sympathize more with, the Israelis and the Palestinians? Back in October of 2023, it was the Israelis by 48 points. Look at this shift. Now we're talking about the Palestinians by a point. I looked back at every single poll that I could possibly find since this question was first asked in the 1980s. This is the first time ever in which the Palestinians had any sort of lead on this particular question. It is very clear that this war caused a historic shift away from the Israeli position in the Middle East conflict and toward the Palestinians when it comes to who Americans and voters sympathize with.

This, of course, was led by Democrats, because what are we talking about? We went from Democrats favoring the Israelis by 26 points to the Palestinians by 46 points. That is a shift, John, quick math in my head, of over 70 percentage points. But overall, the first time ever in which more Americans sympathize with the Palestinians over the Israelis. Truly a historic shift.

BERMAN: It's a big shift overall, a big shift within the Democratic Party. What about Republicans?

ENTEN: Yes, it's not just Democrats, though, in which we have seen a real shift of opinion. Even within the Republican ranks, this war has caused real division.

What are we talking about? Well, we often talk about by age within the Democratic Party, but what about by age within the Republican ranks? Who Republicans sympathize more. You see a massive, huge age divide those 50 and over what we see amongst Republicans is they sympathize more with the Israelis by 66 points. But look at voters under the age of 50. They do sympathize with the Israelis, but just by 25 points. We're talking about a 40 point difference with the youngest Republicans being far more sympathetic to the Palestinian position than older Republicans are.

BERMAN: That's a huge gap right there. Let's just say that (INAUDIBLE).

ENTEN: That is a huge gap. And I think it's going to be very interesting to see how the Republican Party adjusts going forward.

[08:45:03]

BERMAN: All right, the news of the ceasefire deal, the possible return of all Israeli hostages, what's likely to be the reaction to that?

ENTEN: Yes, I think Americans are really going to like it. And why do I say that? Because just look at the polling. A permanent Israeli- Hamas ceasefire that is negotiating one, highly important, that is extremely or very important. 51 percent of Americans. And then you see, somewhat important, 31 percent. Over 80 percent of Americans said the idea of negotiating a ceasefire, a permanent one, was at least somewhat important.

So, the bottom line is, I think a lot of Americans are really going to like this.

BERMAN: They want this over.

ENTEN: Yes.

BERMAN: Harry Enten, really interesting numbers this morning. Thank you very much.

ENTEN: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: Sara.

SIDNER: All right, ahead, an escaped inmate finally caught months after breaking out of the New Orleans jail. Where he was finally tracked down.

And soon you can own a work of art by everyone's favorite soft spoken, meditative artist, Bob Ross. Why dozens of happy clouds and trees are set to be auctioned off very soon.

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BOLDUAN: About an hour detention hearing is set to begin for the man arrested in connection with starting that deadly Pacific Palisades Fire. The 29-year-old suspect, the man now charged, is right there. Jonathan Rinderknecht was arrested in Orlando on suspicion of arson. Police said that at the time he was living in the Palisades, and he was working as an Uber driver and lived there.

[08:50:02]

And during a -- when he set the fire on New Year's Eve that eventually became that horrible blaze. During a federal court appearance yesterday, he did not enter a plea.

And now, nine months later, just take a look at those images that endure. People in southern California, they are still working to rebuild their homes and their livelihoods. The devastating fire claimed the lives of 12 people, and it burned almost countless homes and businesses to the ground.

One of those businesses destroyed was Jaimie Geller Jewelry. The owner, Jaimie Geller, recorded this video you're looking at here back in January -- well, it -- after what happened to her and her family.

And joining us right now is Jamie and her husband and business partner, Michael.

Both of you, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

You not only lost your business, let's be honest, you lost your home. You lost everything but the clothes that were on your back that day. I mean, after everything that this fire had taken from you, how does it feel to hear that they caught the man they believe is responsible, to see his face, to learn his name? JAIMIE GELLER, PALISADES FIRE VICTIM: If I'm being honest, yesterday

we started -- the news broke, and I felt nothing other than more angry, if that's possible, to know that whoever started -- they're trying to put whoever started the fire a week before as the person who started the Palisades Fire. It just shows me that our government failed us, even more that they couldn't put out a fire after a week, that they let this happen, that they knew the wind was coming, that they didn't fill the reservoirs, that they didn't have enough water. And it's something that was so preventable if they had had fire engines sitting there waiting to put out a fire where it could possibly reignite.

BOLDUAN: Michael --

J. GELLER: And catching the man doesn't make me feel any better.

BOLDUAN: Sorry -- so sorry, Jamie, to jump on you like that.

Michael, does it just stir up a lot of emotions that you guys have been dealing with now for, I mean, going on almost a year?

MICHAEL GELLER, PALISADES FIRE VICTIM: It -- it really just reiterates what we've been saying all along. I mean, to try to deflect focus, I mean, from the real -- the real issues of, you know, lack of resources that our city officials, you know, ultimately let happen, it's hard to swallow that a fire rekindled seven days later.

J. GELLER: It honestly feels like a bigger slap in the face.

M. GELLER: Yes, I mean, to --

J. GELLER: It's like --

M. GELLER: To think that this rekindled seven days later and they were not able to -- I mean this went unchecked for seven days. Nobody -- nobody went up there and checked and, you know, maybe parked an engine there and waited to see what would happen after a few days? I mean it just -- it's kind of silly, to be honest.

BOLDUAN: You guys have three -- three sons, right? Eighteen now. 15, 11. You're living in a rental home. You're trying to -- I think we have video of it. You are trying to rebuild your home on the exact same plot that -- where it burned.

J. GELLER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: What has life been like since January? And what -- what has it been like?

J. GELLER: Honestly, it's really hard because the first few months we were all on adrenaline and you're like, I've got to find somewhere to live. I've got to get my kids in school, because our school was also burned. And I think now that adrenaline has worn off and the reality of it has really hit that this is not a one year process. This is not going to be a two year process. This is going to be a five to seven year process. So, it's been really difficult to feel uncomfortable in my own skin. I

don't know about you, but like uncomfortable in our own skin, working where we don't want to work, living where we don't want to live, going to schools we didn't intend for. Nothing that we planned for. It's like the rug is ripped out from under you. And now that pain is really starting for me.

And I still cry every day. Nine months and four days later, I still cry every day. Whether it's for a minute or all day. But that's my experience.

M. GELLER: It's -- yes, it's a lot. It's getting into a new routine. It's getting our children into a new routine. It's starting over. It's trying to find some normalcy. Trying to cut through all the red tape to even, you know, nine months later we still haven't actually officially begun construction.

[08:55:00]

We're close. We're getting very close. But it's been a lot of, you know, red tape with, you know, the building departments and the coastal commissions and the entities that were supposed to be on our side to help us, you know, expedite this process. It's been nothing -- there's been nothing like that. Nothing's been -- nothing's been expedited. It's still a lot of stuff to go through to even get to be able to begin to rebuild our homes and get back to, you know --

J. GELLER: And fight the insurance company every day, even though we're insured.

M. GELLER: Yes. For nine months it's been a full-time job to get into insurance.

BOLDUAN: And with -- when your life is on hold in the way it has been, nothing can move fast enough for sure.

You have a beautiful business. I've been looking at your product. It is absolutely beautiful.

M. GELLER: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: So, good luck and thank you so much for coming on and -- and just checking in. I really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, 28-year-old Derrick Groves is back in custody, five months after he escaped from a New Orleans jail. Groves was the last, the final of the ten inmates who escaped. You can see it all happening right there. Literal jailbreak. He was the last one to be caught. A crime stoppers tip in New Orleans led to the arrest, which was ultimately in Atlanta. They say it took three hours to find him hiding in a crawl space of a home. He blew a kiss to authorities on the way out.

This morning, a gigantic bull moose is OK after falling into a canal. Officials with Colorado Parks and Wildlife say they found the moose trapped. Then they first strapped his antlers to a fence to keep his head above the water, and then they were able to sedate the moose, and then hoist him to safety. You can see there after a while -- after the drugs wore off he was able to stand up there on his own. Poor guy.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, you're going to want to stick around for this. He was a beloved public television painter known to millions, and now he could help -- help fund PBS after its dealing with huge cuts because of federal government spending. We all remember Bob Ross. But just in case you don't know who he is or you need a reminder, take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB ROSS: Tell you what, shoot, the cloud needs a little friend. So, we'll give him one. He lives right there. Just a happy little guy. In my world, everything is happy. So,, we have happy little clouds and happy trees.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: And he made us all happy. Thirty original paintings from the PBS icon, Bob Ross, are being auctioned off. It is happening after Congress approved slashing $1.1 billion in federal funding for public broadcasting at President Trump's request.

Joining me now to discuss is the president of Bob Ross Inc, Joan Kowalski.

Thank you so much for being here.

How, first of all, worried are you about PBS stations across the country after that huge amount of funding was stripped away?

JOAN KOWALSKI, PRESIDENT, BOB ROSS INC.: Well, there's a lot of funding that's -- that they're going to have to get used to not having. And some of these stations are just tight as a drum with the funding that they were getting from the administration. And now to not have it is a real shortfall. And in some stations, it's going to be really detrimental. There are already layoffs happening. Some stations are closing. It's, you know, they relied on those funds.

SIDNER: Joan Kowalski, what gave you the idea to use Bob Ross' paintings to help try and fund PBS?

KOWALSKI: Well, I think it started when there were a couple of paintings that went up for auction about a month and a half ago, and they were -- they brought in a lot of -- a lot of money. And I was like, that's a lot. And then I, you know, just started sort of thinking about it, what if. And it's one of those feelings that you have and you can't -- you just can't seem to let it go.

So, I got on the phone and I started sort of organizing, you know, what if, what if and finding the people I needed to talk to. And we did it. We're going to do it. SIDNER: Can you tell me a little bit about the paintings that will be auctioned off and what you're hoping for? You know, what kind of price you're hoping to fetch?

[08:59:58]

KOWALSKI: So, the paintings that we're going to be auctioning off, that have been donated to American public television, and that they will be auctioning off.