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Bolton Arrives at Federal Court; Trump Welcomes Zelenskyy to White House; Trump to Meet with Putin; Andrii Osadchuk is Interviewed about the Zelenskyy-Trump Meeting. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired October 17, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: The fifth generation fighters based out of Puerto Rico. That's a lot of firepower, Kate. It's more than you'd need, frankly, to blow up drug boats.

So, he is clearly sending a signal to Maduro. For him to speak publicly about the CIA being involved is, again, highly unusual. And I think, ultimately, the goal here is, in fact, regime change.

Final thought. That may be a right policy, but, boy, it's gone sideways for us in Latin America going back to the Bay of Pigs and John F. Kennedy. I'd say flashing yellow light.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And I would say it's always good advice to take the advice of Admiral James Stavridis. It's very good to see you, Admiral. Thank you so much for coming in.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, the breaking news, just moments ago, former National Security Advisor John Bolton arrived at a federal courthouse, expected to surrender after being indicted on federal charges relating to the alleged retention of classified documents.

Federal immigration agents arrest a police officer outside Chicago. We are getting new reporting on what happened.

And it might be the best way to start the school day. The viral sensation known endearingly as the dope educator.

I'm John Berman, with Sara Sidner and Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news this morning. Moments ago, Trump's former national security advisor, John Bolton, arrived at a federal courthouse in Maryland. He is facing charges of mishandling classified documents. Bolton, now a vocal Trump critic, says the charges are politically motivated.

But there are some key differences between Bolton's case and those against two other Trump critics indicted by the DOJ recently.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is outside court.

Give us some sense of what you saw this morning as John Bolton made his way to turn himself in.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, he didn't say anything. Not much at all. But John Bolton here is here now at the federal courthouse. His lawyers are here. Prosecutors are here. We're just waiting to see when a judge would take the bench for Bolton to have his initial appearance in federal court facing this indictment.

The indictment, it's 26 pages long, and it is lengthy because there's so much detail about what John Bolton is accused of. Eighteen counts of transmitting or possessing classified information, national defense information that he shouldn't have had in an unsecured way after he was the national security adviser. Much of the detail in this indictment, Sara, it is about what was happening in 2018 and 2019 when John Bolton was working in the Trump White House, taking notes of his day. He's a meticulous note taker. He's a very hard worker. Someone who was here even at the courthouse almost before it opened this morning. And he's a person then who was recording his notes into Word documents, and then those Word documents he was sharing with allegedly two family members that he shouldn't have been sharing with on unsecured email accounts and then also having them printed out and kept in his house, which he was not allowed to do after he was national security advisor as well.

Some of the detail here is very likely to be read to him in court when he makes this initial appearance today, Sara. He would potentially have the opportunity to plead not guilty at this time. He does say he wants to fight his charges. He's accused Donald Trump of weaponizing the Justice Department against him for a political outcome. But some of the detail here that he will be told, very likely by a judge, is that he's accused of telling these people in his family that he wanted his notes to be saved for, quote, "a diary in the future."

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, Katelyn Polantz there outside the court as John Bolton responds to charges.

John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now, Tom Dupree, former deputy assistant attorney general, and Michael Moore, the former U.S. attorney for the Middle District of Georgia.

Gentlemen, thanks so much for being with us.

Presumably you've each had a chance to look through the indictment.

Tom, let me start with you.

What jumps out to you? How serious is the situation for Ambassador Bolton? TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's a serious

situation. And what jumped out at me when I reviewed that indictment was how starkly it differed from the indictments we saw of Jim Comey and Tish James. Those indictments were short. They were skeletal. They were haiku like.

This is long and thorough, 26 pages, very detailed allegations. It's what prosecutors call a speaking indictment that really tells a story and goes into great detail and puts on public display the evidence that the government has gathered, much of which I think was actually picked up when they executed the search warrant at John Bolton's house.

[09:05:10]

But the government has already put a lot of cards on the table, and the allegations, and at this point they are just allegations, do tell a fairly disturbing story about how Bolton allegedly mishandled classified information.

BERMAN: And if you read the indictment, it seems to suggest he knew there was something in the way he was handling it, at least allegedly. There is this point, Michael, let me read to you, in the indictment where it says, "on or about July 23, 2018, Bolton sent individuals one and two a 24-page document which described information that Bolton learned while national security advisor. Less than three hours later, Bolton sent individuals one and two a follow-up message that stated, none of which we talk about!!! In response, individual one sent a message that stated, shhhhh."

So, how does that state of mind, Michael, maybe knowledge, that this needed to be kept quiet, how could that impact the case?

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: Yes, well, I'm glad to be with you.

Look, this is a serious indictment, and it just tells us how seriously we need to take the handling of national security information.

But the bottom line is, this is really a case about him writing a book. And what he would do is, by all appearances, is he would take some notes while he was in a meeting in his own hand. Those notes may include information which was discussed, which shouldn't have been discussed outside the meeting. He would then send those to family members who were helping him compile his manuscript or his notes to be submitted to an editor. This is not a case where he had a little secret camera and he was taking pictures of the war plane plans and all this and sending them to China or something. That's not what this case is. But it's serious nonetheless because he knows enough. Having had the roles that he's had in the U.S. government, he knows enough about how to handle classified and sensitive information. And he didn't do that here.

So, you know, there's -- there's a little bit of a -- of a follow up tale, and that is that he did go through a declassification program -- or a process when he put his book out. And so the government had a chance to look at some information. So, there may be some knowledge questions there. So, it's not an open and shut case, but it does tell us that at least he knew, and he certainly signed acknowledgments when he got his security clearance, that he would know and protect this information from this type of dissemination for people who had not been given a security clearance.

But there's more to the story, and it'll depend on whether or not Mr. Lowell, that is Mr. Bolton's lawyer, can convince either judges or a jury that the taking of notes for a diary is not a crime.

BERMAN: Abbe Lowell, who has defended many high profile clients over the last several years. And one defense he might use, Tom, is vindictive prosecution, trying to get this case thrown out altogether.

Now, it's worth noting, this -- these charges brought by career prosecutors, not the hasty, rushed prosecutions we've seen in the cases of Comey and Letitia James. But how much ammunition has President Trump himself given this argument from Abbe Lowell just with his statements over the last several years and recently about John Bolton?

DUPREE: Sure. Well, look, these vindictive prosecution claims are notoriously difficult to win if you're a defense lawyer. But I will say that President Trump, you know, by specifically directing the prosecution of certain people, at least gives them some ammunition to make that argument. I think in this case, though, it would be particularly difficult for Bolton to win and to knock out this indictment based on vindictive prosecution for the reason you mentioned. This indictment, again unlike the James and the Comey indictments, was signed by a team of six prosecutors. Many of these are career prosecutors, which really does go a long way toward erasing any taint that might arise from Trump specifically directing this prosecution or ordering this to be pursued. The fact that this was signed off on by career prosecutors who reviewed the evidence and said, in their professional judgment, this was sufficient to warrant charges, will go a long way toward defeating any defensive, vindictive prosecution.

BERMAN: And, Michael, a couple of things here that are different from this case. There was a transmission, allegedly, of classified material. It's not just retention, like boxes of records here. He hit send allegedly to these AOL accounts. And there was a hack by a foreign actor into this information.

MOORE: Right.

BERMAN: So, how does that color the case, Michael?

MOORE: Well, I mean that -- that makes it -- and probably is a good example of why it's all the more serious, and that is because he was using a non-secure server, a non-secure system, to transmit information, that is his notes that he had handwritten. He would apparently scan them or take a picture, whatever, and he would have those notes sent over a non-secure program. And that's how ultimately they were subject to hack. And apparently they were hacked by Iran or people connected with Iran. And that's the danger of having this information out there. So, that -- that does complicate.

[09:10:01]

Remember that Special Counsel Hur at the time, when he was investigating Biden, even talked about that Biden had notes in his own hand that he considered, Hur did, the prosecution considered those things to be classified and subject to the protections of classified and protected information.

So, you know, the notes, it's not a total way out for Bolton, but the fact that he put them on that server, that may be the -- sort of the straw that broke the camel's back in his favor.

On the vindictive prosecution, real quick if I can. You know, this -- he's -- this is a double-edged sword for him because at one time he's going to say, look, I'm just one of people -- three people now who's been indicted within a week by this rogue administration who's bringing in outside prosecutors to move us forward. On the other side of the sword, somebody's going to say, probably the government is going to say, but look at these cases and look at how different they are and look, yes, you can argue in another court if you want to about the Comey and the James indictment. But again, look at here at the detail that we've laid out in the stark contrast. And it shows that these cases were on two different tracks and were governed by two different principles when it comes to prosecution of federal cases.

So, I don't know that he's got a winning argument there, but he's certainly going to try to ride the train that, you know, that Mr. Comey and Ms. James are going to be shoveling coal into as they -- as they go down the track toward their motion.

BERMAN: Yes. Michael Moore, Tom Dupree, great to see both of you. We are watching this courthouse very closely. We will update everyone when we get information about what is taking place there.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Also, we are watching the White House very closely because in just hours President Trump is going to be sitting down with President Zelenskyy of Ukraine. What is Zelenskyy now walking into after Donald Trump's two-hour phone call with Vladimir Putin just yesterday?

And Homeland Security promised to go after criminals. Why was a Chicago area police officer arrested then by ICE?

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[09:15:54]

BOLDUAN: So, very soon, Ukrainian President Zelenskyy will be heading over to the White House for what is no doubt a crucial meeting with President Trump. Zelenskyy is expected to continue his push for American Tomahawk, long range missiles that could allow Ukraine to hit more precisely and deeper into Russia. They're also seen as potentially game changing weapons in this war, especially the state of where things are right now.

Take a look at this. At the same time, fighting continues inside Ukraine. Overnight, Ukraine's military posted new video they say shows their forces repelling a Russian attack, apparently targeting a Russian vehicle column in the eastern part of the country.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is tracking all of this for us. He joins us now.

Nick, first, just real quick, what are you learning about these attacks?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, another reminder, frankly, of the intensity of the fighting along the front line here, how that hasn't given up. But also a reminder, too, that Zelenskyy's walking into this meeting and the possibility of another round of what many call the Kremlin's performative peace process where it never really intends to strike a deal. Zelenskyy walking into this in a stronger military position than, for example, in February and March last year, when this process kicked off in Saudi Arabia, before we've gone through a Russian summer offensive that has taken quite a lot of ground, but not the key towns that Putin had in his sights. That may still happen in the months ahead of winter where it becomes so much harder to fight without foliage on the ground.

But maybe Zelenskyy has that in the back of his mind that they've weathered perhaps what many thought would be a horrific summer for Kyiv. He also has a Trump administration which is clearly talking about escalation that was simply not on the cards or on the table earlier on this year. The Tomahawks, I should give some context here, a very powerful part of the American weaponry reserved really for its most strong allies, but few in number, mostly submarine launched. And so, a logistical trouble, frankly, for Ukraine to implement in large effect. Even if the decision has been made, it's going to take months to get them out there. And indeed, Ukraine's long range drones have a similar impact at the moment.

Zelenskyy, too, also it seems wise to go to the United States and talk business with key energy officials, even talking to Raytheon about the production potentially of Patriot missile interceptors. So, a very different tone here.

Has the meeting been ultimately changed by this agreement to meet at an undefined date in the future between Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump, hatched in an obviously very expediently timed phone call last night at Moscow's request? We don't know. But certainly I think Zelenskyy will be entering into this meeting more aware of the Trump he's dealing with, more confident about possibly how the front line is going, but also to desperately hoping that the stick of Tomahawk supplies, or weapons to Ukraine, it's still in Trump's hand, and that the carrot of potentially another peace deal with Vladimir Putin is something that Trump doesn't have his whole sight upon.

Absolutely. It's great to see you, Nick. Thank you so much for that.

And as Nick was mentioning, this now planned at some point meeting, new face to face between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin in Budapest, Hungary. Let's talk much more about that with CNN's Matthew Chance, who's in Moscow for us this morning.

What are you hearing about this right now, Matthew?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, not a great deal except that there's been a conversation on the telephone already between President Putin here in Russia and Viktor Orban, the Hungarian leader, in which it was communicated that the Hungarians are ready to receive the Russians and the U.S. president, you know, Putin and Trump, within the next two weeks or so. Although, you know, as we've been reporting, there's not been an exact timeframe given. And so we'll wait to see when that actually occurs.

I think it's -- it's really interesting, though, you know, watching this phone call, listening to the readouts from the Kremlin and from the White House as well. It certainly injected a certain new momentum into the idea that there could be a peace process reinvigorated, or at least the prospect of that being held out by the Russians.

But I do think it's -- it's also very important to remember that in neither of the readouts, either from the White House or from the Kremlin, was there any indication that Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, the Russians in general, had done anything to step back from their sort of key military objectives, their maximalist positions in terms of territorial ambitions inside Ukraine and in terms of, you know, how they see the future of Ukraine at the end of this conflict.

[09:20:20]

And so, while there'll be inevitable comparisons drawn between the forthcoming summit in a couple of weeks in Budapest, in Hungary, and the one that happened in August in Alaska where very little -- you know, the red carpet was rolled out by Trump for Putin, but very little was -- was -- was achieved in concrete terms, it's hard to see, you know, what will be different this time. Certainly, President Trump goes into this sort of invigorated from his successes and his -- his diplomatic achievements in the Middle East. But, you know, it's not clear if that will be enough to achieve anything concrete with Vladimir Putin on the other side of the table.

BOLDUAN: Yes, that is a great point. You know, there is -- it's one thing to have momentum, but then you're also looking at a conflict that has been intractable for years now between Russia and Ukraine. It's a great point, Matthew.

It's very good to see you. Thank you so much.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, thank you.

Joining us now is Andrii Osadchuk, a member of the Ukrainian parliament.

Thank you so much for being here. I know your country is going through hell.

What are Ukrainians hoping for in this meeting today between President Zelenskyy and President Trump?

ANDRII OSADCHUK, MEMBER OF UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT: Good morning. Thank you for having me here.

Look, any dialog is good. Any dialog is positive. We see that we have passed a very long way with our relations with the Trump administration since quite difficult meeting with Donald Trump in Oval Office in the end of February this year. And after that, the picture dramatically changed. I think Donald Trump understood much better what's going on. Plus, I think Donald Trump truly realized that Vladimir Putin is cheating him. He's manipulating him. And, in fact, he's humiliating him.

So, all that is -- give us a lot of confidence that I personally very positive waiting for -- for the dialog between Trump and Zelenskyy today, I think in a couple of hours it will happen.

SIDNER: Yes. You know, during all this, and a couple of days before this meeting, it looked as if President Trump was leaning toward -- at least the administration leaning towards potentially sending offensive weapons, namely Tomahawk long-range missiles to Ukraine. Then Putin requested a call with Trump, and now there is a surprise meeting announced with Trump and Putin. What do you think that means for your chances of getting those long-range missiles?

OSADCHUK: Unfortunately, the reality is that the pressure on Putin from Trump administration mostly was verbal until today. It's verbal. But we see that sometimes the words are working because statements about Tomahawk definitely influence Kremlin administration.

At the same time, I don't think that Tomahawks, from a military point of view, will be a kind of turning around in this war because we know that there are a lot of logistical complexity. There are a lot of complexity with -- with the use of Tomahawk by Ukrainian military. And again, the question with the quantity because it's understood that even if Ukraine will receive Tomahawks, it will be quite limited numbers.

So, for the moment, I think it is more a diplomatic signal. A signal from Donald Trump that he really, really think to finally come to his model of peace through strength because we are repeating here in Kyiv for the last three years that the only thing which is understood in Kremlin is actual force. And we still believe that Donald Trump may demonstrate this force, not in public speaking, but in actual actions. And in this case, yes, the reality may change.

SIDNER: Yes, you want to see actions, not -- not words.

Trump just had success in getting a ceasefire in Gaza, which -- a war that had gone on for two years plus. Does that give you hope that it's possible he can do the same thing when it comes to Russia's war on your country?

OSADCHUK: First of all, the war in Gaza and Russian aggression in Ukraine has a lot of different contexts, and it's impossible to compare these wars.

But I think it's really good that Trump achieved success for the moment. I don't think that this success will be long-lasting. But still, now we have this window of opportunity when everyone is satisfied with the ceasefire in the Middle East.

[09:25:00]

And yes, the attention of the west, the attention of the White House can be changed and shifted from the west, from the Middle East to Ukraine. And, in fact, Donald Trump was saying about that.

So, definitely we welcome success of American administration in the Middle East. And, yes, we hope that it will give more motivation to Donald Trump to make impression on Vladimir Putin.

Despite all details, we definitely will be happy to welcome success of Donald Trump in his actions against the Russian Federation. And if he will succeed, I will be the first who will nominate him for next peace Nobel prize.

SIDNER: All right, he'll be happy to hear that. Member of Ukrainian parliament, Andrii Osadchuk, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: All right, a Chicago area police officer now under arrest by federal immigration agents. So, what specifically is the charge here?

And maybe the one guy on earth whose mother did not toss his baseball cards. Now some 100 plus year old cards glued to the top of a chest could fetch a fortune. Baseball fans are going to want to hear some of the names we're talking about.

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