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Manhunt for Thieves Who Stole Louvre's Crown Jewels; Marines' Shrapnel Hits California Patrol Car During Life-fire Exercise; U.S. Negotiators Meet Netanyahu Ahead of V.P. Vance Visit; IDF Says Red Cross en Route to Received Deceased Hostage; Justices Agree to Hear Gun Rights Case; Two Dead After Cargo Plane Slides Off Runway in Hong Kong; NTSB to Examine Cracked Windscreen of Diverted Flight. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 20, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:34:10]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": -- This is some new video showing the moment the thieves broke through display cabinets. They took off with priceless artifacts from the French crown jewels. And here is what we know about how they did it. Shortly after the museum opened on Sunday, the thieves used a truck-mounted ladder to access the Apollo Gallery, and using an angle grinder which is seen on the ground there in that picture we just showed you, they broke through the window.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Once inside, they smashed through display cases to get the jewels and then took off on motorbikes. The entire operation was over in just seven minutes. Eight of the nine stolen items are still unaccounted for today, and we don't know who's behind it or if they're possibly working for someone else.

We're joined now by Robert Wittman, a former FBI Special Agent and Founder and Senior Investigator of the FBI National Art Crime Team. Sir, thanks so much for being with us. Before we get into the investigation and what that looks like, I didn't realize that this was even possible and maybe I've watched too many movies, but I thought that there might be like lasers and trip wire and something else protecting these invaluable artifacts. I guess not.

ROBERT WITTMAN, FOUNDER & SENIOR INVESTIGATOR, FBI NATIONAL ART CRIME TEAM: You know people watch "The Thomas Crown Affair," they see those walls closing in on the paintings in the water, and that's just not how it works. What happens is today, is you have -- you have surveillance and you have human resources like guards around, but it's none of that high-tech material that you see in the movies. So, well, there was another movie called "Entrapment" where they had all these laser beams that a woman was dancing around. So, those things are from Hollywood. In today's world, you have glass cases, you have walls, you have windows, and there's ways in.

SANCHEZ: Catherine Zeta-Jones had me fooled, I guess.

KEILAR: Totally fooled.

SANCHEZ: Yeah.

KEILAR: OK, so you have a -- there's a French Senator who's telling CNN, Robert -- it would be more fun with the lasers, I do think.

SANCHEZ: The same.

KEILAR: But a French Senator says the jewels are likely already out of the country and won't be back. What do you think?

WITTMAN: Well, I don't know why he would say that. What would be his inside information that that would tell him? I would be, as an investigator, I'd want to talk to him to know why he would think that because somebody must have said something to him. I don't think they're out of the country. I think that, when I first saw this heist, I thought to myself, having done this for 35 years, that these guys were professionals. They were really good at what they did.

But once I saw exactly what had happened, where they had left so much forensic evidence behind, I mean, they left the cutters, they left the ladder that they had gone up. They had lost one of their yellow construction vests. They dropped one of the crowns. All of a sudden, they're not so professional. These guys are pretty much just everyday thieves.

And to think that they're some international jewelry theft gang, if they were, if they were like the Pink Panthers that were coming in, that were out of the Balkans, they might be going into these high-end jewelry stores and they don't leave forensic evidence behind. They go in and they do the job, and they don't have anything left. These guys bumbled through this.

Now, the reason they were able to do an audacious crime like this in broad daylight was because they were acting like construction workers. They were looking like -- maybe they were emergency construction workers who had gone into the Louvre to do some work. They wearing that yellow, those yellow outfits, that's what I think allowed them with a disguise to get in there.

SANCHEZ: I wonder, Robert, what does this investigation look like at this point? Given what you've laid out there, do investigators try to find where the jewels are, hoping that that leads them somewhere? Or do they go about a profile of who these folks might be? Do you think it might be someone or a group of people who might be known to law enforcement from previous incidents?

WITTMAN: Well, there's this as a standard operating procedure for investigations of any sort, the first thing we do is you go in and you look at the actual site and you see what evidence is still there. And when you have a thing like a vest that came off of a person, there's going to be DNA on that vest. So that's going to -- you're going to be checking for that.

You're going to be checking for footprints to see what kind of shoes these people could have been wearing. You're going to be checking for fingerprints if they're aren't -- they probably had gloves on, but you never know. There's times when criminals do things that don't make sense, and then that could be a good situation. You're going to be looking at the video; you're going to be doing facial recognition on the video, running that through computer programs.

There's a lot of different things that are going to happen in this investigation, which are what are standard in any case. Now, because it's a cultural heritage investigation, you're also going to be looking at different areas in the country who -- people who buy antiques, antiquities also jewelers. So they'll be going and making sure that all the jewelers know that these things have been stolen and that any effort to buy them would be a criminal violation that could land them in trouble.

[13:35:00]

So there's a lot of different investigative techniques that'll go on right from the beginning. And I wouldn't be surprised if the BRB, which is the Brigade Against Bandits in Paris, it's a formal police squadron that works for the Paris Police, wouldn't have some idea already on who these individuals are because, they don't come out of nowhere, you know?

KEILAR: Yeah.

WITTMAN: When they're criminals, they figure these things out. They're pretty well known.

KEILAR: OK. So, a reputable jeweler isn't going to purchase these, right? They're going to know what these are. Who would these robbers try to sell them to? There has to be some kind of market for it, right?

WITTMAN: Well, that's the thing, what I always say is, they're better criminals than they are businessmen because they steal these things thinking they can get maybe a small percentage of the value and they can't. I mean, nobody wants -- nobody wants stolen property. It gets you in trouble. And people who have a lot of money that could afford to pay a percentage of the value of these things, they're not going to buy stolen property. It's just not a good idea for them. They can't do anything with it. They don't have a good title.

So there are better criminals than they are businessmen. And I always say, the art in an art heist like this, it's not the stealing, it's the selling, what do you do with it.

SANCHEZ: Robert, I have to admit, I'm not a connoisseur of fine jewelry or artifacts and they kind of -- it kind of looks like HGTV to me.

(LAUGH)

SANCHEZ: Like they're showing these gems. What is it that makes these so valuable and so priceless?

WITTMAN: The thing that makes them so valuable and priceless, it -- the gemstones are important, all right? And in some cases, they are the value, OK? But really it's the heritage and the history. It's not always the gemstone. Remember, these things are hundreds of years old. So at the time, the mining evolutions weren't there. Some of the gold from those days aren't -- is not as pure as it could be. It's not as pure as 24-karat today.

And so, there's impurities that are mixed in. Some of it is silver, some of it is other base metals like nickel that is also put into to solidify the gold because it's very, very weak if it's just gold, and the diamonds and the gems could be very good, but nothing as compared to the cultural value. So if you buy a crown that was worn by Josephine, you're not just buying the object itself, you're buying the history

And that's where the value really is. That's where the millions come in into play. When we talk about just the base metals, it's not even close to that. So hopefully, they'll realize that the important thing here is to try to get these back to the country, get them back to the -- to where they belong for the history and for the cultural heritage of France.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, we hope they're found and that they're found in one piece. Robert Wittman, thanks so much for the analysis. Appreciate you.

WITTMAN: Thank you guys for having me. I appreciate being here.

SANCHEZ: Of course. Coming up, President Trump's Gaza negotiators are back in the Middle East, trying to push the next phase of the ceasefire agreement. This after deadly violence flares over the weekend. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:43:01]

SANCHEZ: The Marine Corps is now investigating after a piece of artillery shrapnel hit a California Highway Patrol car. This happened on Saturday during a live fire exercise at Camp Pendleton during a part of a Marine's 250th anniversary celebration. An artillery shell exploded early near the I-5 Freeway, which Governor Gavin Newsom shut down before the incident over safety concerns.

Fortunately, no one was hurt. And as a precaution, the Marines stopped the remaining live fire drills. Vice President J.D. Vance was at Camp Pendleton for the celebration. His office disputed Governor Newsom's claim that the live rounds were dangerous, saying that the demonstration was an established safe practice. Brianna?

KEILAR: Soon, Vice President Vance will be on his way to Israel where the White house's top Gaza negotiators Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu today. This renewed push from the Trump administration comes as cracks emerge in the fragile ceasefire that they negotiated between Israel and Hamas. New violent flare-ups are testing that deal. On Sunday, two Israeli soldiers were killed in southern Gaza.

In response, Israeli airstrikes killed 45 Palestinians according to Gaza's civil defense. A short time ago, President Trump threatened to eradicate Hamas if it breaks the terms of the ceasefire deal. And we just learned from the IDF that the Red Cross is about to receive the remains of another deceased Israeli hostage. We're joined now by Republican Congressman Randy Fine of Florida. Congressman, thank you for being with us. And as you're watching this, we're all watching this, what are you watching for next steps, especially as Vice President Vance is traveling to Israel this week?

REP. RANDY FINE, (R-FL) FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Well, I want to start by recognizing the miracle that President Trump did in getting those 20 living hostages out. Now the question is, does Hamas live up to the end of the deal? And it hasn't looked good so far. They didn't release all the dead hostages like they were supposed to.

[13:45:00]

They've gone across the line like they're not supposed to. They killed a couple of soldiers and they're killing their own people. So, we've got to keep the pressure on with all of the countries that put pressure on Hamas to disarm and allow Gaza to become the kind of place where people can flourish.

KEILAR: What do you think this has come to be with Witkoff and Kushner negotiating directly with Hamas? How are you viewing the U.S. negotiating directly with terrorist groups?

FINE: Well, look, I can only look at the results that we got. I don't think anyone thought Hamas would ever release 20 -- every single living hostage. It's a miracle. So obviously, the results work. And now, we're in a much better position to go after Hamas because they don't have the leverage of these hostages. So I support President Trump. I think his team has proven they know how to get results and I'm very optimistic that they will continue to this week when they're in Israel.

KEILAR: What does it say about how other conflicts, besides this one, might be solved?

FINE: Well, it shows that our American strategy works, that peace through strengths. Look, I'm an intense guy and sometimes I steer --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: I'm talking about the negotiating directly with terrorist part. Does that inform your thinking on how other conflicts might be solved?

FINE: I think what it shows is that when President Trump leans in and focuses on dealing with all of the parties, he can generate results. We need that same result in Russia and Ukraine. And I think that sort of intense focus is the right way to go. It got results here, hopefully can get results in other parts of the world as well.

KEILAR: I want to ask you about, something that you said to Laura Loomer, who is a controversial far-right activist, about your bill, the No Sharia Act. You said we have to be focused on the problem. You talked about the problem being the Islamification of America. You said, we can see what happened in France. We can see what happened in the U.K. We can see what happened in Dearborn. And we have to say we don't want that. What did happen in Dearborn? What do you mean by that?

FINE: Well, the mayor of Dearborn in a city that has become 55 percent Muslim, told a Christian minister that he was no longer welcome there because he did not want a road named after a terrorist. That is what we're dealing with in this country. And when you have a radical jihadi like Mamdani possibly being elected in the city of New York, we've got to deal with that.

Now look, I know that I'm intense about these issues. I'm intense about a lot of things, but these issues matter and we've got to be able to focus on it. Jews in the U.K. do not feel safe there anymore, and we do not want that for the United States.

KEILAR: President Trump, as you're well aware, courted Muslim American, Arab American voters in Dearborn. He won Dearborn on his way to winning Michigan. He has nominated Muslim American mayors in Michigan, not far from Dearborn, including Dearborn Heights to be ambassadors. That was certainly in October of 2024, a population that really mattered a lot to him. How do you square what you are saying with what he has said and what -- how he has viewed these folks?

FINE: Well, that's a great question. I don't think they're inconsistent. Not all Muslims believe in terrorism. The problem is a large percentage do. And what President Trump is doing right is he is engaging with the ones that I consider radical, the ones who want peace with Christian and Jewish communities, that want peace around the world to set them up to be successful. That's the way we solve this problem.

But we have to be willing to call out the meaningful percentage that engage and promote violence, which we can see all over the country and all over the world.

KEILAR: Do you think you're doing it specifically enough, or do you think that sometimes you may be lumping people in together?

FINE: No, and as I said, I'm an intense person. Sometimes it scares away the people closest to me. But what I would say is, I'm very clear about this. I believe we have to focus on mainstream Islam. I think we've gotten this wrong. The radical Muslims are the ones who want peace. They're the ones in the UAE, the ones in Dubai, many in Saudi Arabia, who want peace. But it is the mainstream, the Imams that we can see over and over and over again, like Mamdani campaigned with a couple days ago, who call for the destruction of the West.

And we cannot be afraid to call it out. We have to recognize that there is evil in this world and we have to fight it every day.

KEILAR: You're talking about Imam Wahhaj. I just want to be clear to our viewers, he was once named on a list of potential co-conspirators in the 1999 World Trade Center bombings. This is the individual you're talking about? FINE: Yes, but more than that, he was a character witness for the blind sheikh who was involved in it. These are not people that should be leading Muslim communities, people who believe in violence.

[13:50:00]

I want the peaceful Muslims, the one who say I want to coexist. I don't want to bring Sharia to the United States. Those are the ones that President Trump is finding and embracing. And those are the ones that I want to work with too.

KEILAR: I do just want to be clear so that our viewers have all of the information. This is an imam who has been in charge of a mosque for several decades, which several people connected to that bombing either attended or visited around the time of the attack. That's according to The New York Times. The list of co-conspirators that the Imam was on, "was later criticized for being overly broad," some former terrorism prosecutor said. I hear what you are saying about that. I just want to be very clear about all of the information out there about that Imam. Congressman Randy Fine --

FINE: With all due respect --

KEILAR: Go on.

FINE: With all due respect, no one made him be a character witness for the blind sheikh. He chose to do that all by himself.

KEILAR: Congressman Randy Fine, thank you so much for being with us.

FINE: Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: Ahead, federal authorities are investigating after the windshield of a United Airlines jet cracked mid-flight, forcing the plane to land. Stay with us for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:56:05]

KEILAR: One of the headlines that we're watching this hour, the Supreme Court will decide if the federal government can ban certain drug users from owning guns. The case centers around a man who was indicted for violating the guns and drugs law after the FBI found a pistol, cocaine, and pot in his home. His lawyers got the charge dismissed after lower courts ruled that the law only barred guns from Americans who were actively intoxicated at the time of their arrest.

But the Justice Department is appealing those decisions, arguing that the law should apply to habitual drug users as well. For context, this is the same law that Hunter Biden was convicted of last year, a decision in this case is expected by June. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Authorities in Hong Kong are investigating how a cargo plane skidded off the runway and plunged into the sea. The plane carried an Emirates flight number and ended up partially submerged with what appears to be a fuselage missing its back end, including the aircraft's tail. Two workers on the ground in Hong Kong International Airport were killed when the plane hit the vehicle they were in, pushing it into the water.

Several crew members on board the plane were sent to local hospitals for medical treatment. CNN's Pete Muntean, our Aviation Correspondent is here and joins us. So Pete, what can you tell us?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, the images are clearly very dramatic. I'm now seeing signs that the plane went through the fence there, which is key as investigators start to look into this. Four crew on board. They are safe. Although as you mentioned, two airport security staff have died. Airport officials say they were in a patrol car on a road just outside the airport fence. That car was apparently hit by this jumbo jet as it careened out of control. This is what's known as a runway excursion, and they seem to be happening all the time lately.

Took place around 3:50 a.m. Monday, Hong Kong time. That's about 3:50 p.m. Sunday here on the East Coast. The 747 was coming into land on Hong Kong International's runway seven left. The airport is kind of an island made up artificially. The plane apparently touched down and then veered left off of the runway, then swapped tail with nose, finally resting there in that inlet to the South China Sea. A question now for investigators, how did this plane lose control?

There was no significant weather at the time of this crash, though airport officials say they'll be looking into runway conditions. Of course, they'll also want to look at the experience of the pilots and whether or not they were fatigued, because most of these cargo flights occur over the -- overnight and this flight from Dubai no exception. Thankfully, the crew got out OK. And you can see in some of these images, the evacuation slides that were deployed from the upper deck of the 747, that's also where the cockpit is.

There's also an escape hatch there on the top of a 747 that can be used by the crew in case they need to get out, you can kind of repel down as if you were a Batman or something. Not the first crash though involving this operator, ACT Cargo, headquartered in Turkey. They've had three total losses of their airplanes in the last 15 years. This leaves them now with only one 747 in their fleet, the only airplane they have fleet wide.

SANCHEZ: Wow. That is unexpected. Pete, there's also this United Airlines flight that was forced to make an emergency landing after a crack was discovered on the windscreen.

MUNTEAN: Yeah. And this has kind of got internet speculation running wild right now. This happened on Thursday, United Airlines Flight 1093. It was a 737 MAX 8, going from Denver, big United hub, to LAX. When at 36,000 feet, the windshield cracked unexpectedly. The crew declared an emergency. They turned to Salt Lake City, had an uneventful landing there. The images are now surfacing online and it has caused a lot of speculation, folks wondering if this airplane hit something, and what could that be? The good news is these windshields are very strong, but usually a windshield break in a commercial airliner does not prompt an NTSB investigation like this. So some people are wondering if it was space junk or a piece of hail, or maybe a part of another airplane. We will see. I have a lot of water to pour on the space junk --

(LAUGH)

MUNTEAN: -- theory. The NTSB looking --