Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Jamaica Bracing For "Extremely Dangerous" Cat. 5 Hurricane Melissa; Air Traffic Controllers Miss First Full Paycheck Amid Government Shutdown; House Oversight Committee: Biden Pardons Via Autopen Are "Void." Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 28, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

MAURICE BLAKE, STUCK IN JAMAICA DURING WEDDING ANNIVERSARY TRIP (via Webex by Cisco): The last time we were out, we went to dinner at 8:30 and they put everybody on lockdown at 9:00. So everybody had to be back in their room and report back to them and let them know that we made it back to our room safely. So that was the last time we were out.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: How does it feel, guys? I mean, does it feel -- I don't know -- does it feel scary? Does it feel safe? Like, what are you -- when you hear, like --

MARITZA CAVER-BLAKE, STUCK IN JAMAICA DURING WEDDING ANNIVERSARY TRIP (via Webex by Cisco): It feels like my nerve --

BOLDUAN: -- the biggest storm to ever hit Jamaica is coming in, what do you think?

MARTIZA CAVER-BLAKE: My nerves are reckoning, and I just can't believe it. It's a different ballgame when it comes to a hurricane compared to tornadoes in Arkansas. That's very different.

BOLDUAN: As a -- as a girl who grew up in Indiana, I can absolutely agree it is definitely -- it feels very different than preparing for a tornado for sure.

You have two kids back in Arkansas, guys. I am sure they want mom and dad --

MARITZA CAVER-BLAKE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: -- back home as soon as possible.

MARITZA CAVER-BLAKE: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: What's the conversation like with them?

MARITZA CAVER-BLAKE: Um, my daughter had a volleyball game yesterday. We missed our first game. We're very -- we go to all games and so we missed our first one. And so we talked to her, and she told us all about it. Her team sent us videos and photos of it. So thank God for technology because it really helped us out because we've been sad for the last 24-48 hours not being home with our kids.

BOLDUAN: For sure. I mean -- and Maritza, if it's anything like my daughter, she's going to do a good job of holding that over your head for a few years that you guys missed that first game.

MAURICE BLAKE: Yeah. Yes.

BOLDUAN: The thing -- the thing about this trip also that I was hearing is you actually canceled this same trip for your honeymoon 10 years ago because of another hurricane back then. I mean, Maurice, when you realized --

MAURICE BLAKE: Yes.

MARITZA CAVER-BLAKE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: -- this was happening again -- and Martiza, you're like this is happening again? I mean, what went through your minds?

MARITZA CAVER-BLAKE: He said no more trips to Jamaica.

MAURICE BLAKE: No more.

BOLDUAN: I mean, it's a -- I don't know, guys.

MAURICE BLAKE: We --

BOLDUAN: If you're looking for a sign, I don't know what the sign is.

MAURICE BLAKE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: But --

MARITZA CAVER-BLAKE: I think I'm not going to be able to plan any more trips with him.

BOLDUAN: I think maybe some solo trips, Maritza. Maybe some solo girls' trips --

MARITZA CAVER-BLAKE: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: -- might be in the future, right? I think Maurice might be the bad omen on this one.

MARITZA CAVER-BLAKE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Um, at the end of the day, guys, when do you -- when are you -- you arrived last week. You tried to get out on Saturday -- flight canceled. Obviously, no luck there.

I mean, what is the hope or the expectation of when you think you'll be able to get home?

MARITZA CAVER-BLAKE: We are shooting for Thursday.

MAURICE BLAKE: Yeah. MARITZA CAVER-BLAKE: Thursday. We -- the airports are supposed to open back on Wednesday. We tried to get a flight out on Wednesday without trip adviser. She's been trying but we haven't had any luck. So we've already got one booked with American Airlines already, so fingers crossed. I'm praying that we'll get home soon.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And what doesn't break you makes you stronger. So happy 10th anniversary.

MARITZA CAVER-BLAKE: Yeah.

MAURICE BLAKE: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: It's going to -- it's --

MAURICE BLAKE: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: -- all up from here. You both have earned another trip -- maybe just to, you know, somewhere away from a coast.

It's great to meet you, guys.

MAURICE BLAKE: Yes.

MARITZA CAVER-BLAKE: Yes. Nice to meet you, too.

BOLDUAN: Thank you very much. Be safe and be well. Thank you -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Kate. That was so sweet. It's nice to see them at least having -- smiling.

BOLDUAN: Trying to smile through it, right?

SIDNER: Yeah, yeah.

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

SIDNER: All right.

Joining me now is Evan Thompson, the principal director of Jamaica's meteorological service.

We were just hearing from two people stranded there in Jamaica waiting -- about to be taken to shelters.

I guess the big question here is: Is there anywhere in Jamaica that won't feel the effects of this massive storm?

EVAN THOMPSON, PRINCIPAL DIRECTOR, METEOROLOGICAL SERVICE OF JAMAICA: Well unfortunately, no. I think that question is directed to me -- unfortunately, not because we are expecting that the entire island will be engulfed by that large area of showers and thunderstorms that are surrounding the center of Hurricane Melissa.

Now, this system has been threatening us for quite a while and we've been warning the population, you know, that the rains will spread right across the country. And the center of the system is really expected to pass over on the western side of the island but all the way to east we are expecting that we will also be experiencing the rainfall associated with this system. And, of course, some flooding is likely to be experienced as well.

SIDNER: Mr. Thompson, what are your biggest worries? What are your biggest concerns about this storm -- the strongest storm that Jamaica has ever seen and the strongest storm right now that is -- that is happening in the entire world?

THOMPSON: Yes. You know, it's good that you mentioned that because we've really never experienced a category 5 hurricane.

[07:35:00]

Some persons will remember a storm in 1951 that was Charlie and that one was a hurricane, but it didn't -- it most likely was about a category 3 based on the data that we've been seeing. And then in more recent memory, 1988 we had Hurricane Gilbert that I'm sure many of our viewers and listeners would remember. And in that case, it moved from east to west right across the country. But again, it was category 3 hurricane.

Since then we've had Sandy in 2012, which was a category 1. We've had other systems of category 4 but moving -- the center of them moving off the coastline. And so we were really experiencing like the outer bands from these systems.

But in this case, we're seeing a major category 5 hurricane that's likely to be moving right across the country from south to north. This is something that we've never experienced and so no one knows exactly what to expect at this time, and that's really the biggest challenge that we've never experienced a category 5 hurricane. We've only seen them on CNN and other places.

SIDNER: Yeah.

THOMPSON: But, you know, we really are wondering just exactly bad it will be and whether we can really get through this.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you because you've got the coastal areas, but you also have the mountainous bits of Jamaica.

What are your concerns about both of those areas because like you said, this storm is going to completely cover Jamaica and there are dangers even in the mountainous areas? What can you tell us about what may happen there?

THOMPSON: Yes. Well, over in the hilly areas we are really focused on the kind of landslides that we could be experiencing in those areas. Of course, we've been having quite a bit of rainfall since the beginning of -- or since about the middle of October, so the past two- three weeks.

And so when we hear about this additional rainfall that's going to be extreme and, you know, what could cause excessive flooding right across the country we also think about the kind of landslides that we're likely to experience because we are accustomed to experiencing landslides whenever the soil is saturated and when there's loosening of the soil. And so in this case we do expect that in hilly areas.

Also, we know that the wind speeds are usually increased as we go into these mountainous areas. You know, even above what we experience on the flatlands. So, you know, those persons who are living in the mountains and the higher terrain are also very much concerned about what could be experienced in terms of the lifting of roofs and the blowing down of trees, and all the loss of electricity. All these things are of major concern to those of us in the -- in the hills.

But then, of course, those on the flatland nearer to the coast -- we're concerned, yes, about the flooding that is expected to take place. But at the same time we're also very much concerned of storm surge flooding, especially in those areas that are along the coast of -- the southern coastline east of where the storm will actually make landfall. And so those residents are very concerned.

We're experienced on surge flooding in many of the communities along the south coast already, but this is likely to be a lot more than they've experienced in the past. And so there are concerns from all ends -- from the lowlands to the highlands right across the area.

SIDNER: Yeah. I think what you are saying is that there is nowhere that is safe from this storm. Being indoors and having all your supplies so important at this time and getting to a shelter if you need that also really imperative at this hour.

Thank you, sir. Evan Thompson, thank you for taking the time. I know that these are scary times, and you took the time to calmly explain what people need to do and what may happen as this category 5 hurricane crosses over Jamaica. Thank you. And please, please take care of yourself and your family -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. This morning air traffic controllers will miss their first full paycheck since the government shutdown began. That shutdown is now in day 28 and it's leading to deepening staff shortages at airports across the country.

CNN's Pete Muntean is at Reagan National Airport with the latest this morning. Pete, what are you seeing there?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well John, the staffing shortages are getting deeper at airports across the country with no sign of this government shutdown ending soon and no sign that air traffic controllers will begin reporting to work while getting paid. Right now they are going to work and not getting paid.

And that is something that will remind travelers at airports across the country today, including here at Reagan National Airport handing out these leaflets that say, "End the government shutdown now and reach out to your representatives."

They're doing this not only here DCA but also in Boston, LAX, Chicago, Atlanta -- airports across the country. This is something that is so, so important to them because the staffing shortages really are almost everywhere with no rhyme or reason right now. We saw it hit about eight or nine different locations yesterday. There were delays at DFW, at LAX, at Newark because of these staffing shortages.

[07:40:05]

Also, there was a ground stop yesterday because of staffing shortages in the control tower at Austin-Bergstrom International Airport.

I want you to listen now to Dan McCabe of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, who says this makes it so hard for air traffic controllers to make new recruits. They are already facing a huge shortage of controllers. Why would somebody choose this career? And it makes it so hard for somebody -- one of these controllers dealing with a stressful job already to put food on the table -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN MCCABE, SOTHERN REGIONAL VICE PRESIDENT, NATCA: We have a very young workforce. This is a workforce that may not be financially set up yet. And like I said, everyone has a story. Some people may not be -- may be spread thin. Some people may have some savings. We don't know that. But what we have to look at now -- where is the breaking point for each individual? And that stress is absolutely unnecessary on top of what they're already doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Our analysis shows there has been 272 reports of staffing shortages at air traffic control facilities across the country since the shutdown began on October 1. When you think about the same period a year ago, that number is four times greater.

So this is so abnormal, John, and we are about to go into what will be a huge travel weekend. Halloween is on Friday. So many people are going to make a 3-day weekend out of that.

BERMAN: Um-hum.

MUNTEAN: Airlines are preparing. They are calling for this government shutdown to end. And hopefully, this doesn't lead to massive cancellations and delays like we saw over this weekend where we saw those cancellations and delays really hit a peak because of all these problems.

BERMAN: You know, this puts so much pressure on these air traffic controllers who are already under so much pressure, Pete.

Pete Muntean at Reagan National Airport this morning. Thank you very much.

Now the shutdown is playing a role in elections now exactly one week from today, especially in Virginia, filled with federal workers. And in the race for governor there polls have shown that the Democrat,

Abigail Spanberger, has a lead over Republican Lt. Governor Winsome Earle-Sears. Now, as that is happening, some Democrats in the state are pushing a movement to redraw the congressional maps there. They currently hold six out of the 11 seats. Of course, this is all tied up in the national redistricting movement that the president started with his pressure in Texas.

With us now is Professor Larry Sabato, the director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. He's also the author of "Campaign of Chaos: Trump, Biden, Harris, and the 2024 American Election." Professor, always great to see you.

Just one quick question on the Virginia move to redistrict. I think I spent the last 90 minutes trying to understand how the process works there.

It's not easy but what is -- what are you seeing there? How serious is this? How committed are Democrats to using Virginia as a way to fight back against what's happening in Texas, and maybe Indiana, and maybe Missouri, and maybe Florida?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA, CO-AUTHOR, "CAMPAIGN OF CHAOS: TRUMP, BIDEN, HARRIS, AND THE 2024 AMERICAN ELECTION" (via Webex by Cisco): John, they're very serious.

And what interests me right now is the fact that they have been working on this for months and it didn't leak. Normally when you have this many people involved trying to work on a plan that is complicated somebody is going to talk to a reporter or somehow it gets out in the -- in the press. So this came as a great surprise I think to just about everybody.

They're serious because, of course, President Trump began this process by pushing Texas to grab five more Democratic seats and succeeded. And then California balanced that with their five. Supposedly, prop 50 will be passing shortly and then they'll balance what Texas did. But as you mentioned, lots of other states are doing it too, mainly Republican.

So the pressure came back to Virginia. If you're going to try and balance more of the Republican landgrabs if you will, you have to do something in a state like Virginia, which is now substantially Democratic. It's not heavily Democratic -- substantially Democratic. And there are six Democrats and give Republicans representing Virginia. It's really pretty easy to put that map together and add two or three seats -- some are saying four, but I think it's more like two or three seats -- to the Democratic total.

It is complicated though. You have to pass this twice with the legislative sessions separated by an election -- which, by the way, is next Tuesday.

BERMAN: Yeah. So basically, it has to start today. It really started yesterday but it has to happen now, and then the week after next, and then 90 days after that. It can happen but they really have to be nearly perfect Democrats to pull this off.

I want to talk about the elections in one week. You're so great at establishing what the stakes are here.

What are you looking for? What would be a successful day for Democrats next Tuesday? And, of course, the big elections there in New York City. You have Virginia and you have New Jersey as well.

[07:45:00}

SABATO: Yes. I think that Democrats would be thrilled if Mamdani got over 50 percent because that will strengthen him and make him potentially a more successful mayor. Because Republicans are going to try and make him the face of the Democratic Party, which is ridiculous when potentially you have two moderate liberal Democratic women being elected governors in New Jersey and Virginia. So that would be one piece of it.

The second, the weaker of the two gubernatorial candidates, is Mikie Sherrill in New Jersey. Now, she's ahead. She's been ahead in most polls. But four years ago the incumbent Democratic governor Phil Murphy was way ahead in the polls, and he ended up winning by just three percent. If she can beat that margin, leading by four, five, six, that will look good for Democrats.

And finally, in Virginia, you have to have a big victory by Abigail Spanberger, who is ahead and has led every single survey by any kind of nonpartisan organization for the entire campaign. So it will be a giant shock if she doesn't win, and she's likely to win by quite a bit. If she does, she'll bring in the entire Democratic ticket, including more members of the legislature. Democrats have only a 51-49 margin. They'd like to have it up to 55-45 or better.

BERMAN: And that could get back to the whole redistricting thing.

Very quickly, Professor, what might this tell us about the position of President Trump in the country at this point in his second term?

SABATO: Well, to be fair, you've got three very blue localities, plus California, which is very, very, very blue. And if they vote against President Trump given all the controversies he's been in and polarization that he's caused, it wouldn't be shocking.

However, if they do very well, as we've just outlined, it would indicate that Democrats may be on to something and that something is affordability. That's the one issue that links New York and New Jersey and Virginia together in these elections, focusing on the fact that prices haven't fallen as Donald Trump promised.

BERMAN: That is clearly the major issue in each of these elections. Each of the six candidates, really. And if you add more in New York, seven talking about it almost endlessly.

Professor Larry Sabato, great to see you this morning. Thanks for your help on all of this -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: So thousands of jobs at Amazon cut this morning. What AI has to do with the mass layoffs and also indicates for the future.

Also, the most extreme case of smashing pumpkins -- prepare yourself -- you have ever seen.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:52:10]

BOLDUAN: This morning big changes are coming to Amazon. The tech giant announcing in the early morning hours that it is cutting 14,000 corporate jobs this year as part of its post-pandemic cost-cutting strategy and one with a keen eye looking toward a new AI era. These cuts, Amazon says, also are not the end of it.

Let's get over to CNN's Matt Egan. He's got much more detail for us. Matt, what are you learning here?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well Kate, one of America's biggest employers is shrinking its corporate workforce today in a big way. Amazon is saying that it's planning to cut 14,000 corporate jobs, and that amounts to about four percent of the company's headcount.

Now, in this early-morning memo to employees Amazon cited a few different reasons here. One, they say they're trying to reduce bureaucracy. Two, they're trying to reduce and remove the number of layers in the company. And they're also trying to make sure their resources are being allocated in the right way, so they're investing the most in their biggest bets.

And as you mentioned, Amazon -- they're signaling they're not done yet. They say that next year they will add to their headcount in some strategic areas, but they'll cut back in others.

Now, this is a look at Amazon's workforce and as you can see it really skyrocketed during the COVID era. So one of the reasons Amazon is doing this is it's a course correction after adding just an unbelievable number of employees. Back in 2019, this is a company that had 800,000 employees. It went up to 1.3 million in 2020 as it tried to catch up to all of that demand.

Now, the other factor here, of course, is artificial intelligence. AI is viewed inside Amazon as one of the biggest technological changes in our lifetimes. And back in June, Amazon's CEO -- he admitted to employees that adopting AI will mean that the company may need fewer employees in some areas.

Now, it's not clear exactly how many of these layoffs today are being driven by Amazon adopting AI, but the company did acknowledge AI in this memo today. A

An executive said, "What we need to remember is that the world is changing quickly. This generation of AI is the most transformative technology we've seen since the internet, and it's enabling companies to innovate faster than ever before." And the Amazon executive went on to say that the company is convinced that it must be more organized. It has to be organized more leanly and have fewer layers. And so I think that the implied message there is that Amazon's current

rivals and future rivals -- they're going to be leaner. They're going to have fewer employees because of AI. And so Amazon feels like it needs to do that as well.

And so, Kate, now we watch to see how other companies respond and whether or not they are going to be inspired by today's layoffs to take a tougher look at their headcount as well.

[07:55:05]

BOLDUAN: That's a good question, Matt. Thank you so much. Much more to learn here -- Sara.

EGAN: Thank you.

SIDNER: All right. New this morning as President Trump pardons friends and supporters, his party is now making moves to try and undo President Biden's pardons.

The GOP-led House Oversight Committee sent a letter to Attorney General Pam Bondi claiming President Biden's executive actions signed by autopen are "void." The committee argues Biden showed such cognitive decline in office that it's unclear whether he fully understood the pardons and commutations issued under his name. They're urging the attorney general to deem those clemencies invalid and consider charges against some of Biden's aides.

Biden has strongly rejected those claims, saying he made all decisions himself as president and called Republicans suggesting otherwise "liars."

Joining me now is CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson.

First of all, can Congress reverse a presidential pardon?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Sara, good morning.

A quick answer: not at all. Presidential pardons are embedded in the Constitution, Article 2, Section 2, and as a result of that they are absolute. The president has a vast and very significant pardon power.

Now they're attacking it, Sara, upon two grounds. You mentioned one of them. The issue is your cognitive ability. Any pardon, of course, has to reflect the will of the president. They're indicating -- this committee -- that it did not reflect the will of the president because of his cognitive decline.

And they are also going after the fact that it was done by autopen, which is a thing, right? To the extent that it wasn't your signature, you didn't know about it, you didn't do it. It doesn't reflect your will. It has to come back. I think it's a heavy lift and a tough argument to make.

SIDNER: Because we are hearing from Biden saying no, those were my decisions, period, pointblank.

JACKSON: Yeah.

SIDNER: Stop lying about this.

I do want to ask you what you think this signals as you're seeing the Republicans now attacking Biden, you know, for this autopen situation and his cognitive health when it comes to these pardons.

JACKSON: Yeah. So, Sara, it signals that we're in a very tough place. And I -- you know, if you look at -- you mentioned Biden coming out saying they're liars, but he also said that I did this because -- his words -- everyone knows how vindictive President Trump is. And as a result of that I wanted to protect anyone from real litigation that has no merit.

Prosecutors have vast authority and by the mere investigation and accusation causes major strife, undoes families, causes economic harms, et cetera.

So I think it signals that this is retribution. It's punishment. And anybody that we could uncover and expose with regard to undoing a pardon, we're going to do it. But with respect to the legal issue of invalidating a pardon --

SIDNER: Yeah.

JACKSON: -- major, major lift.

Two quick things, Sara. One is that the SCOTUS weighed in issues regarding pardons 150 years ago -- over that, right? A case called Klein. And they said hey, can't be undone by legislation. The president has the full authority and you're otherwise all good.

And then with regard to the autopen issue --

SIDNER: Yeah.

JACKSON: -- the Department of Justice said hey, it's perfectly fine. And think about the world we live in.

SIDNER: Right.

JACKSON: You have the president based on the efficiencies and things of the office. You need that autopen. As long as it's tied to your will, meaning you wanted to do it, you're good. When you have the president -- former president coming out saying hey, this is me, they're lying, that's problematic legally because that's pretty good testimony, right?

SIDNER: Yeah.

I mean, is there any precedent to this? Have there ever been pardons that have been reversed by someone other than the president?

JACKSON: Never in the history of our republic has there been a pardon that's been revoked or reversed. It's final. You may not like a pardon, and you may not like the people pardoned. You can attack the process of the pardon, et cetera, which they're doing. But at the end of the day because it's embedded in the Constitution it's problematic.

One quick thing, Sara. We're in a different world as it relates to pardons. It used to be that there was this whole official process, right? You had to wait five years, et cetera, et cetera.

SIDNER: Right.

JACKSON: Nope. Come to the president if you want a pardon. It's done. It's over. I think it's a heavy lift. It's a good political argument and nice to discuss. I don't think it's going anywhere legally.

SIDNER: Yeah, hard political argument when the president who is currently in office is doing pardons again and again and again with many, many different people.

JACKSON: Yes.

SIDNER: Thank you so much, Joey Jackson --

JACKSON: Always.

SIDNER: -- for your expertise, as always -- John.

JACKSON: Thanks, Sara.

BERMAN: All right. In California, a sheriff's deputy was killed and the person suspected of shooting him injured in a crash after a high- speed chase. The suspect took off on a motorcycle after the shooting and the chase ended when the suspect crashed. He was airlifted to the hospital and is in stable condition, likely facing murder charges.

Deputy Andrew Nunez was fatally shot by the suspect when he responded to a domestic violence call. He was a six-year veteran and leaves behind his pregnant wife and 2-year-old daughter.

This morning new video shows the moment a Florida police officer alerted a sleeping family that their home was on fire. The officer, who was on regular patrol, says he noticed heavy smoke and a truck on fire in the driveway. He noticed the flames had spread. The family did make it out safely and crews put out those flames.