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Monster Category 5 Hurricane Melissa Makes Landfall in Jamaica; Melissa to Hit Cuba as Major Hurricane After Jamaica; Air Traffic Controllers Miss First Full Paycheck of Shutdown; GOP-Led Oversight Committee: Biden Pardons Via Autopen are Void. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 28, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We're following breaking news out of Jamaica. Hurricane Melissa tracking directly over the Caribbean island nation as a life-threatening Category 5 storm. It has weakened slightly since making landfall but remains incredibly violent.

Catastrophic winds as high as 165 miles an hour hitting the island right now. The director of the National Hurricane Center tells us that just moments ago, this is about as bad as it gets when it comes to a direct hurricane hit. Also just moments ago, we got this new video in from Treasure Beach, Jamaica.

You can see the intensity of the wind and rain there. And this video out of Mandeville in St. Elizabeth Parish, fast-moving floodwaters rising as power lines struggle against the wind.

With us now is Matthew Samuda. He's Jamaica's Minister of Water, Environment, and Climate Change. Matthew, thank you so much for being with us. You are in Kingston right now, which is avoiding the worst of this storm.

I wonder if you are in touch with your counterparts in the areas where landfall has been made and whether it's clear how much damage is currently being caused.

MATTHEW SAMUDA, JAMAICA'S MINISTER OF WATER, ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE: So good afternoon to you and good afternoon to you viewers. Kingston is on the southeastern end of the island, and it's experiencing the equivalent of tropical storm conditions. And as you move western, the condition deteriorates.

So this storm would have made landfall in New Hope, Westmoreland, which is the westernmost part of Jamaica, about an hour and a half ago. And it would have come onshore with 185 miles per hour winds, and a storm surge of 17 feet, and we expect rainfall of between 30 and 40 inches. So it really has had a catastrophic effect, as you would have shown the videos earlier.

Many areas from Clarendon, which is in the central part of the island, the south central part of the island, all the way to Westmoreland, are inundated with floods. We're getting videos of and pictures of severely damaged public infrastructure, hospitals, places of safety, homes are inundated and flooded.

[14:35:00]

So it is having the effect that was projected. We are happy that there is some weakening, but at 165 miles an hour, that is still catastrophe. And yes, we are in touch with all of our counterparts and all of the arms of the disaster preparedness and disaster response mechanism currently.

SANCHEZ: Yes, given the severity of this storm, the strongest ever recorded to hit Jamaica, and your duty as the Minister of Environment and Water and Climate Change, I wonder what it's like to prepare for a storm like this, for an island, for a nation that has never seen something so powerful.

SAMUDA: So last year, we had an experience with Hurricane Barry. It didn't quite come on shore or make landfall, as meteorologists would say, but it affected the southwestern side of the island again very, very badly. The Prime Minister, Dr. Andrew Holness, ordered a full review of our response then. And since then, we've been implementing a number of programs to make ourselves more resilient. So for instance, in the southwest part of the island, some of the IT infrastructure and telecoms infrastructure has actually been put underground, relative to the fact it used to be above ground. We've hardened the energy infrastructure, you know, to give us more resilience for storms like this.

But make no bones about it, there's limited things you can do to prepare for a storm of this nature. Over the last 10 days, as we come to the end of our rainy season, the government has been cleaning critical drains right across the length and breadth of Jamaica, because at the end of the rainy season, a lot of silt would have come into our drains. So we have done what we can to reduce flooding.

But when you have rainfall of 30 to 40 inches and certainly storm surge of 17 feet, you understand and I expect the sort of flooding that you're seeing on video. The other thing to understand is that this is affecting disproportionately 70 percent of our population, as 70 percent of the population lives within five kilometers of the sea. So it's a very dicey situation.

We are monitoring very carefully, and we're hoping for storm conditions to subside so rescue teams can go into the field where we've had distress calls.

SANCHEZ: We also understand that the area where the storm is closest to is a fairly rural area. Do you imagine that there are going to be some challenges in getting to folks who need it most once the storm passes?

SAMUDA: So I expect the accessibility issues to be most challenging in the interior of the country. So as the storm moves northeast, it is going to go over in the direction of Montego Bay and head towards Trelawny and St. Anne. We believe that the hilly interior between Westmoreland and the hills of St. James, which is where Montego Bay is going towards the northern border, is where we're going to have the hardest access. And that's where it will be particularly challenging. So we have prepositioned heavy equipment to be able to clear roads and to create access where necessary. But the focus will be on critical infrastructure such as hospitals and police stations so that we can start the crisis response that is necessary.

SANCHEZ: Minister Matthew Samuda, thank you so much for the time. We hope you and your fellow countrymen are safe. Thanks for being with us.

SAMUDA: Thank you so much.

SANCHEZ: So after Melissa exits Jamaica, it is then expected to reach southeastern Cuba as an extremely dangerous major hurricane.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: CNN's Patrick Oppmann is standing by in the path of Melissa. Patrick, tell us how Cubans are preparing today. How concerned are they?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN HAVANA BUREAU CHIEF: They are very concerned. If they aren't, they should be, because this is a storm, even on an island as experienced with hurricanes as Cuba is, that very few people here have ever seen in their lifetime. So behind me, there are actually people who've been working on the roofs all day long, trying to secure the roofs so you don't have these tiles fly off.

Essentially, roofs become shrapnel when you get powerful hurricane winds like that we are going to see with Melissa. And they pick up the tiles, they pick up water tanks, anything that's left on a roof can go flying off and hurt people or worse. We are in a mountainous area of Cuba.

You can't see it because the mountains have been completely blotted out by the rolling fog that's coming in, these bands of rain that are coming in, but a very mountainous region where people actually live. So you have this issue where there are going to be flash flooding, you're going to have communities that are going to be cut off, and that, of course, means that help might not arrive there for days. This is already an island where there are severe limitations on resources.

You know, there are problems with evacuating people because there's simply not enough gasoline. People have not had power here where I am in Santiago de Cuba.

[14:40:00]

For the most part, not because of the hurricane over the last several days, just because there have been frequent power cuts.

So this makes experiencing a hurricane all the more difficult. There were long lines yesterday for food, for people taking out cash from ATMs. Thousands of people are evacuating. Many more will ride out the storm in their homes. And it's not clear to me if many of these homes will be able to withstand Melissa's punishing winds.

KEILAR: Patrick Oppmann will be keeping an eye, obviously, on Cuba. Lots of concerns there. Still to come, air traffic controllers, they're still on the job, but

they're not getting paid. What you need to know about the situation at airports on day 28 of the government shutdown.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:45:00]

KEILAR: As the shutdown entered the day, day 28, air traffic controllers missed their first full paycheck today. Of course, they're essential federal workers, so they're working, even as they're forced to make difficult personal decisions while they keep travelers safe.

Here's how one air traffic controller summed it up today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE SEGRETTO, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: Somebody came to me and said, Joe, I have a question for you. I said, what's that? I need your advice.

What am I to do? Do I put gas in my car? Do I put food on the table?

My wife is out making money. We don't have, you know, money for daycare. What do I do?

I didn't have the answers. I said, I will, I will find out some, you know, resolve for you. But as of right now, I don't know what to tell you.

But these are the real problems that air traffic controllers are dealing with on a daily basis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: We're joined now by Dan McCabe, the Southern Regional Vice President for the National Air Traffic Controllers Association. Dan, let's talk safety first here. It is really hard to see how air traffic controllers collectively can do their best work if a significant number of them are worried because they can't pay the bills.

I know they're professionals. I think we all know they're doing their best to go to work and leave these concerns at home. But realistically here, can they really do that?

DAN MCCABE, SOUTHERN REGIONAL VP, NATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS ASSOCIATION: Thanks for having me. So when you ask an air traffic controller to come to work, do the job at the level that is required every single day, and you do that under the shadow of financial stress or stress about your kids or your family, I mean, you're essentially injecting risk into a system that was built at its foundation on being risk averse. And when you do that, you're injecting -- it's a little less safe tomorrow than it is today.

And a little less the next day and the next day and the next day. Because fear, anxiety, fatigue, those are human factors. And as professional as they are and as dedicated to the craft as they are, they're humans.

KEILAR: Yes, I mean, I think that's what people are fearful of as they look at what's going on here. Some air traffic controllers are calling in sick more than usual in some places.

Are some controllers having to do that so that they can spend time on gig work to get an income to make ends meet?

MCCABE: Yes, it's hard to say. I've had a few phone calls today that echoed what you just played from Joe. And these are people that are considering leaving the agency, as in resigning from federal employment.

There are people that are asking about how to take extended time away to go do something, wait tables, drive Uber, anything they can do to make ends meet. Because we're at a point now today, it's a zero paycheck. And let's not forget that here in a couple of weeks, mortgages are due, car payments are due, insurance things are due.

And this is where we're at. We don't know what everyone's breaking point looks like. And let's face it, we don't want to know what everyone's breaking point looks like.

But every day that this thing continues to move forward, we're getting closer and closer and closer to everyone's individual point in which they throw in the towel.

KEILAR: Yes, and I think we know, listen, everyone has the circumstantial anxiety from time to time, right? Better or worse, they're bringing it to work.

This as you say, as we've talked about, this is broader. When you think of the kinds of decisions that can be impacted by anxiety, that in this line of work are things that are actually studied or kind of case studies over the years. What are the kinds of things that you think of?

MCCABE: Well, you want your controllers to come to work on their A game, right? You want them to have had a good night's sleep. You want them to be well rested.

You want them to be the clarity. You want them to be able to see things, to fix things. And it all goes back to the risk mitigation.

Risk pops up, we mitigate risk. We see risk that we can plan for. We mitigate risk.

And that's why introducing unnecessary risk, knowingly that we don't have the control to mitigate is a problem. Now, the one thing we can do, and the one thing you will see, and you've seen it before the shutdown, you'll see it after the shutdown, is when things do get to a point that safety is an issue, we have to slow it down. That is the only thing we can do.

There are no magic potions or pills for this. If it gets to a point that safety is top and there's a problem, we have to slow it down. That means delays.

That means ground stops. That means cancellations. Nobody goes to work wanting to delay a flight, nobody.

But nobody also wants to go to work and not get paid. So these are the things that we deal with.

KEILAR: Yes, travelers already feeling that.

[14:50:00]

Secretary Duffy appeared today alongside the union. But on day nine of the shutdown, he threatened to fire what he called problem children controllers who don't show up to work. Are you hearing from any controllers who are worried about being fired if they take sick time during the shutdown?

MCCABE: No, we have processes for that. If something rises to a level of something like that, a removal, we have processes in place. We deal with it every single day.

That's not a worry of ours. The biggest worry of ours is the American economy was built on a deal. The deal is work done, wages paid.

This deal has been broken for the men and women that are doing this job day in and day out. Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day, New Year's Day, they're in those buildings doing the work and they need to be paid for it. They deserve better than this.

KEILAR: Yes. And we always remind people you miss a payment. It affects your credit score, right? And that affects how far your money goes in the future. These are real lasting ramifications, even with backpay.

Dan McCabe, it is great to have you. Thanks for being with us.

MCCABE: Thank you for the opportunity.

KEILAR: Boris.

SANCHEZ: Now, to some of the other headlines we're watching this hour. The Department of Homeland Security says more than 3,000 migrants have been arrested in Chicago and across the state of Illinois since the so-called Operation Midway Blitz began in September. The number a significant increase from earlier this month when the department said more than a thousand migrants have been arrested. We've also learned that since the start of President Trump's second term, half a million undocumented immigrants have been deported from the United States.

Meantime, Bill Gates, who's been a leading proponent of reducing carbon emissions, now says resources should be shifted away from fighting climate change. In an essay released today, Gates argued the world's philanthropists should focus on what he says are more urgent matters like preventing disease and hunger. And he specifically mentions the potential for lasting damage following President Trump's cuts to USAID. Despite criticism, Gates insists his new position is not a reversal from his previous stances.

And surgeons at Mass General Brigham have removed a genetically modified pig kidney from a New Hampshire man. Tim Andrews, seen here with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, received the transplant back in January. It was removed last week after a record 271 days because of a decline in function. Andrews was the fourth living patient in the U.S. to receive a kidney transplant from a genetically modified pig. He's now back on dialysis as he waits for a human donor.

Still to come, as part of the investigation into President Biden's use of an autopen, Republican leaders say some of his pardons and even some of his executive orders should be considered void. We'll discuss next.

[14:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: The Republican led House Oversight Committee released a 93 page report on its months long investigation into former President Joe Biden's use of autopen.

Now they're urging Attorney General Pam Bondi to consider whether some of the pardons he issued using the device should be invalid. The report found that they found some of his actions are void.

KEILAR: The former president has publicly disputed those claims, saying he made all decisions while he was in office. CNN's Annie Grayer joins us now. Annie, what more does the report say?

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, this report is based on interviews with 14 of Biden's closest aides and allies, and Republicans use their testimony to try and poke holes in Biden's pardon process and use of the autopen. They have raised serious concerns about the process. They refer to it more as a quote unquote, game of telephone than anything else.

But while they raise these major concerns, nowhere in the report do they find explicit evidence of anyone other than the president giving the directive for his staff to carry out these pardons. I want to play for you a bit of a clip from Biden's former chief of staff, Jeff Zients, in his interview with the House Oversight Committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was your understanding of what documents should be signed by hand or which could be auto penned in certain situations?

JEFF ZIENTS, BIDEN'S FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Everything here is a general thing. Generally, we, on important, particularly on the most important pieces, we make efforts to have the president do a wet signature. But an autopen was legal, is legal.

There's no ambiguity around that. So it came down to the logistics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRAYER: So Biden and his aides have vehemently defended themselves and pushed back on this report. A Biden spokesperson said in response to the report out today, said in part, quote, "There was no conspiracy, no cover up and no wrongdoing."

But what the oversight committee is asking the Department of Justice to do here is really unprecedented, to examine presidential pardons and potentially overturn them, because there is no precedent for this.

And there are for sure to be legal challenges if Trump's Department of Justice were to go down this path. Of course, DOJ already has its own investigation into Biden's use of the autopen. This is something that the president and his allies have been pushing for quite some time.

And this is not the only thing that the oversight committee is asking DOJ to do. They also turned over three of Biden's aides to for further questioning from DOJ because they fled the fifth in their ...

END