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Dick Cheney Dies at 84; Pete Williams Remembers Dick Cheney; Mamdani, Cuomo and Sliwa Face Off; Lamont Bagby is Interviewed about the Virginia Race. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 04, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:31:28]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And the breaking news we're following this morning, former Vice President Dick Cheney has died. The lifelong conservative Republican surprised many, you will remember, when he announced that he was voting for Kamala Harris in the 2024 presidential race, calling Donald Trump a coward and saying there was no greater threat to the Republic than Donald Trump himself.

So, let's get to the White House now. CNN's Alayna Treene is standing by, which leads to the question, there's a lot of reaction coming in. And what is President Trump going to say? Have you heard anything yet?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: We have not. He has not posted on social media about Dick Cheney. I will say, he has been posting this morning, just not about the death of the former vice president.

We have not yet received a statement from the White House either. We're, of course, also keeping an eye on the flags here at the White House. They typically are lowered to half-staff after a death of a former vice president like this.

But -- and you mentioned this, Kate, these two men had a very, very complicated relationship. Cheney actually had supported President Donald Trump, despite Trump, when he was running in the 2016 election, you know, his abandonment of kind of the traditional conservatism, making the GOP less of a Reagan Republican Party and more of a populist, nationalist GOP.

But it was after the president, when he was leaving his first term, had refused to accept the election results of 2020, that is when Dick Cheney had spoken out and, as you mentioned, shared very critical words about President Donald Trump. And then ultimately chose, in a very public way, to not support him in his race at his second bid for the White House. Instead, supporting the former vice president, Kamala Harris.

And I would note as well, of course, that he was a big supporter of his daughter, the former congresswoman, Liz Cheney, who had a major role in the House committee that investigated the president -- the former -- President Donald Trump during his first term. This was when he was out of office, this investigation ran. But investigated his role into the January 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol.

And look, the president has had harsh words as well for Dick Cheney around all of this. He's called Cheney a, quote, "irrelevant rhino." You know, they've sparred publicly on a lot of things. So, it will be interesting to see what the response, of course, is from this White House.

But I also want to make clear, of course, you know, just looking back on the storied and long political career that the former vice president, Dick Cheney, had. I mean he was often criticized as being too conservative, being too hard line on a lot of the conservative beliefs he had. And so, what he did, and in his response to President Donald Trump was a big change, of course, from what we had -- the nation had really seen him be when he was vice president, and also in his career as congressman and defense secretary before that.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

Alayna Treene, we'll be checking back in with you at the White House for that reaction, if it does come from the White House today. Thank you so much.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, joining me now is former NBC News correspondent Pete Williams.

Now, Pete, before your illustrious journalism career, you worked for Dick Cheney. You were his press secretary when Dick Cheney was a congressman. And then you did public affairs for him when Cheney became the assistant defense secretary. Give us some sense of what it was like working for him in those early days before he became a household name.

PETE WILLIAMS, FORMER CORRESPONDENT, NBC NEWS: It was a total joy. You know, II think people don't realize what a great sense of humor he had and how intensely loyal he was to people who worked for him.

[08:35:10]

He, in a very early point in my career with him at the Pentagon, I and another senior official did something that alarmed the president. And President George H.W. Bush called Dick Cheney and said he was very upset. And Mr. Cheney said, you know, Mr. President, that was my idea. Well, it wasn't his idea, but there he was taking the bullet for his rookie staffers. That's kind of an exceptional thing in Washington. And I can assure you that that inspires loyalty.

We both grew up in the same place, Casper, Wyoming. Mr. Cheney was born in Nebraska, but moved to Casper, became the captain of the football team, married the high school cheerleader, Lynne Cheney, had two great daughters. So, I was -- I felt very close to him and was really honored to work for him. Every day was a learning experience with him. SIDNER: Now, Pete, I would be remiss if I didn't ask, what did you do

that upset the president? Can you tell us?

WILLIAMS: Well -- well, so this was early on in Mr. Cheney's tenure. And "The New York Times" was looking for some background information about a forthcoming round of arms control discussions with the Soviets. And they asked if a senior official at the Pentagon, someone that really hadn't worked much with Cheney, could do some backgrounding. Cheney said, yes, but be sure to talk to the National Security Council and the State Department to make sure we're all latched (ph) together.

Well, this official revealed something in the backgrounder that the president had intended to announce himself. So, he wasn't very happy about it. But as I say, Mr. Cheney said, well, Mr. President, that was my idea. That -- that was -- that was pretty amazing.

SIDNER: That's rare in any position of power to take the blame for a staffer.

I do want to talk to you about some of the animosity that surrounded Vice President Cheney. There was plenty to go around. One of -- he was one of, of course, the most powerful vice presidents, but also one of the biggest lightning rods. Democrats went after him. He was hated by Democrats for some of what he decided in the war on terror with the, you know, Ababu Ghraib torture that happened and his role at Halliburton. And now Republicans have shunned him because he stood up and said, I cannot support a President Trump presidency after January 6th.

Did it bother him at all? Did you ever have discussions with him about the attacks that he got from now all sides of the political aisle?

WILLIAMS: No, I don't think it bothered him. I think that he felt he was doing the right thing, and that gave him a great deal of personal strength.

In terms of the war on terror, I think you have to consider what a searing moment it must have been for him to be in the White House, with the president on the road, after the 9/11 attacks, not knowing what was going on, facing the possibility of having to shoot down civilian airliners and then being hustled by the Secret Service down to an underground bunker in the White House. I think that very much shaped his feelings and, you know, was reflected in his decision that the United States was never again going to be attacked, and we should do whatever we could to prevent those attacks.

In terms of Mr. Trump and the Republican Party, you know, he was a person of great conservative views. Of very strongly held conservative views, especially on the issue of national defense and strategic alliances. And on that alone he would part company with Donald Trump. But he just, you know, he was -- remember, he was the youngest White House chief of staff ever at the point when he worked for Gerald Ford. He had strong feelings about the kind of decorum that should exist in the White House and was really alarmed by many of the positions that Trump took. You know, Mr. Cheney's politics don't really reflect the politics of a

lot of the Republican Party today.

SIDNER: Yes. Thank you so much, Pete Williams, for taking us along on your memories of the vice president. I really do appreciate you coming on this morning.

We have just received a statement from former President George W. Bush on his vice president., on Cheney's passing. He says that, in part, "Dick was a calm and steady presence in the White House amid great national challenges. I counted on him for his honest, forthright counsel, and he never failed to give his best. He held to his convictions and prioritized the freedom and security for the American people. For those two terms in office, and throughout his remarkable career, Dick Cheney's service always reflected credit on the country he loved. Dick's love for America was second only to his family. Laura and I have shared our deepest sympathies with Vice President Cheney's wife, Lynne, and their daughters and granddaughters, of whom he was so deeply proud. We are praying for Lynne, Liz, Mary and the entire Cheney family as they honor a great man."

[08:40:05]

Kate.

BOLDUAN: We'll continue to follow that breaking news and all of the reaction coming in.

Also this morning, we are tracking the fact that the polls are open and voters are voting all along the East Coast. One of the closely watched races is the battle for mayor of New York City.

Moments ago we saw the Democratic candidate, Zohran Mamdani, cast his ballot. It also comes after President Trump decided to get involved, trying to throw something of a last second curveball into the race, announcing on social media that he's endorsing, not the Republican in the race, but rather the longtime Democrat turned independent Andrew Cuomo.

CNN's Jason Carroll is watching it all at a polling place in New York.

Jason, what do you -- what have you been seeing?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've been seeing a very, very busy polling place.

We can show you right -- what's happening right now inside here. This is one of the busiest places that we've seen here. We're on the upper west side of Manhattan. And, you know, this is one of the polling places that saw more than 16,500 early voters, Kate. A record number. And that pretty much falls in steps with what we've been seeing throughout the city. Seeing four times as many voters during this mayoral race, more than 735,000 voters cast early votes, versus four years ago. But that doesn't mean it's still not busy now. A lot of folks -- watch yourself behind you there -- a lot of folks still trying to get in and cast their votes today. You can see the line out there outside the door here.

Again, this is a race that's really captured a lot of national attention. You've got the frontrunner here, Zohran Mamdani. You can see the line here going out the door. Youve got the frontrunner here who's been really gaining a lot of attention here, not just here in New York City, but nationally. He is a progressive. He is someone who has gotten a lot of attention. And he's -- and he's right now leading the polls.

Sir, I know you're -- you're here today. Tell me who you're voting for and why.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Andrew Cuomo. I feel like his experience as the governor, transitioning into the city, I believe that he, like I said, he has more experience than anyone that's on the ballot for me. Been a Cuomo supporter for years. And I think he should have a second chance to redeem himself for the people. And, yes, pretty much that's how I feel. You know, I'm not too much into everybody else. I don't really know --

CARROLL: Well, let me just, very quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes.

CARROLL: You've heard so very much about Mr. Mamdani.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CARROLL: Some of the policies that he wants to enact if he would be elected mayor. He's talking about affordable housing. He's talking about more affordable transportation, more affordable child care. Those issues, do they appeal to you? Not appeal to you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a concern. Definitely. I do -- I have children myself. And affordable housing is kind of hard for everyone, especially financially, I think. And I think, you know, I think Cuomo, he'll lead us the right way. I -- like I said, I think because his experience and also just his supporter of him for many years and also him being like, you know, in the independent ballot, which I am as well, an independent.

CARROLL: I mean you look at this race, it's really come down between the progressive candidate, Mr. Mamdani, and then the one who has the so-called experience, the former governor, Mr. Cuomo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Well, Mr. -- if Mr. Mamdani wins the race, I think I'll back him. But I feel like every time we have someone, you know, trying to be, especially the mayor here, and they promised a lot of things, I just hope that, you know, whoever is the mayor helds up to their promises, to be honest.

CARROLL: Thank you very much. Really appreciate that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CARROLL: Appreciate that, sir. Thank you. Got two more right over here. I just want to talk to you guys very

quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi.

CARROLL: I know that you're in here and casting your vote. Who did you cast your vote for and why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mamdani. I think he's just -- I'd like to see someone my own age, you know, up there talking and fighting for us.

CARROLL: Tell me why. What -- was it specifically an age issue, policy issue?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's the same vote for me. I think it's important to have a Democratic candidate in office. I think that his ideas and also his relationship to the New Yorkers, I feel like he's really for the people. And that's something you don't see in the government ever. So, it's really important that we have a fresh face there, someone with policies that are very aligned with the people of New York, too.

CARROLL: What do you make of his relationship with the president and what the president has said about, you know, threatening to withhold federal dollars if Mamdani is elected? Any concerns about that?

[08:45:04]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

CARROLL: You're laughing. You're laughing. Why? Why laugh?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't -- what's -- Trump -- I don't know. I think New York is -- I think we're stronger together than he is. I think -- I don't think we have anything to worry about.

CARROLL: OK. All right.

Agreed?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do agree. I think, although our president says very ridiculous things, they obviously have violence behind them and can be quite threatening. But I -- I think that we need someone just as powerful with as much heart. I wouldn't say -- I wouldn't say Trump as heart, but I would say Mamdani has plenty of heart and plenty of grit to do what this city needs him to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CARROLL: All right, thank you very much. Really appreciate your input.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

CARROLL: Again, so there you've heard it there, we're getting a lot of opinions from a number of different voters who've shown up here again. We are seeing a lot of folks coming out here. Many people here in the city took part in early voting. But again, we are seeing a great deal of interest here today.

Polls in New York will be open until 9:00. We're going to be out here all day bringing you voters' opinions, whether it be Mamdani, whether it be Cuomo, whether it be the other candidate, Curtis Sliwa. We'll bring it to you live.

Guys, back to you.

BOLDUAN: It seems -- and it seems -- and -- even with the early voting, it seems very busy. And all throughout the day we can promise everyone that Jason Carroll will continue to be pushed around by producer Sarah Boxer. And I am here for it. Love you, Jason. Thank you.

CARROLL: Wow.

BOLDUAN: John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now, our CNN political commentators, S.E. Cupp and Bill de Blasio, the former mayor of New York.

And actually, it was so great to hear from voters there --

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BERMAN: Because with this race, almost more than any that I can remember, it's been sort of nonstop punditry at the very highest levels, all the way up to the president, talking about what this race means and Mamdani or Cuomo or Sliwa, but very little focus on why the voters may be making this decision. And both of you, I think, have a unique perspective on this. First to you, former mayor, since you outrank all of us, what is it that you think New York voters are saying right now?

BILL DE BLASIO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They're saying this city that we love is unaffordable, and it's not going to work unless we do something really different.? Mamdani understood the heart and soul of New Yorkers. He understood that people were absolutely unwilling to accept the status quo. And he showed them something truly different. He was out in the communities. He was connecting with people.

And what's amazing is the political class didn't get it for the longest time. And then he blew everyone away in the primary. And then they said, oh, what's -- you know, now watch out for this tight general. He is out there teaching the Democratic Party a lesson right now. Talk about affordability all the time and connect with the people.

BERMAN: And again, all the talk has been about him more than about them.

S.E., you've been doing a show for weeks, if not months, where you've been hearing from voters telling you why they feel the way that they do.

CUPP: Yes. Yes. Yes.

BERMAN: I mean, obviously, they're not, you know, blind or dumb to the people talking about this race. So, why do they seem willing to trust him?

CUPP: Yes. Well, Mamdani managed to do two really important things that I think voters really responded to. One, even though this race has become nationalized, we're all talking about it. The president's talking about it. Zohran Mamdani was hyper focused on local issues. And the issues that matter to New Yorkers are affordability, housing, transit, all these things that really made a difference to a lot of voters. He didn't do the things that a lot of national Democrats do, which is talk about bigger things, like democracy. And he was focused on the problems that are going to change people's lives. Whether you like them or not, that's what he did.

The second thing he did was, he really ran an old school grassroots ground game -- we've kind of forgotten how to do that -- where he's knocking on doors.

DE BLASIO: Yes.

CUPP: He's going to churches and mosques. You know, Andrew Cuomo ran this like Rose Garden campaign that didn't connect with voters. And in a city as big as New York, you got to go to LaGuardia at 10:00 p.m. and talk to cab drivers, like Zohran Mamdani did.

DE BLASIO: Yes. When Zohran walked the length of Manhattan before the primary, when he went over the Brooklyn Bridge the other morning to give a speech at dawn about a new day coming to New York, I mean, these are very powerful symbols of connecting with people and the grassroots. And S.E. is totally right, this was a neighborhood-based campaign. Democrats, John, used to -- this is what Democrats used to do. This is what Franklin Roosevelt, Fiorello La Guardia, of the history of the Democratic Party, was being in the neighborhoods, being connected to people. And then somehow the party became elitist or perceived at least as elitist. That loses.

You know what wins? Talk to people about what's going on at their kitchen table. How they pay the bills. How they pay the rent. How they make sure kids have a good school. You do that and Democrats win in 2026 and 2028.

[08:50:04]

BERMAN: And we'll see. Look, we'll see what happens tonight.

CUPP: Yes, we'll see.

BERMAN: We did hear from a couple of voters there who said that they are supporting Andrew Cuomo.

CUPP: Yes.

BERMAN: Almost like right from a Cuomo ad, right?

CUPP: Yes.

BERMAN: Experience and whatnot. They definitely are getting his message.

But I will say this, that as Democrats nationally argue about the impact that a Mamdani victory could have, they're already adopting some of his strategies. Some of his messaging has bled over the Hudson.

CUPP: Yes.

BERMAN: I was in New Jersey last night, and Mikie Sherrill, who is running very much as a moderate Democrat --

CUPP: Right.

BERMAN: Not in opposition to Mamdani, but separate from that, talks about affordability and talks about transit.

CUPP: Yes.

BERMAN: I do feel like this is something that Democrats are already accepting.

CUPP: There are things to take from this and things to jettison from this, right? And the thing to jettison is, you don't have to run like a far left progressive in Michigan, in Georgia, right? That has to work in your district. But you should take the message that Zohran Mamdani obviously got, which is to focus on the top three things that matter to voters.

In 2024, Democrats missed this. The top three issues were economy, crime and immigration. And Democrats went out and said the economy is great, crime is down and immigration is not a crisis.

OK, you can try and wedge in those other important issues that do work for Democrats, like abortion, you know, corruption, democracy. But if they're not in the top three, you're just reaching such a smaller audience. Zohran Mamdani got the top issues, and that's all he did.

DE BLASIO: And you can't say that things are OK.

CUPP: That's right.

DE BLASIO: The big mistake in 2024, that horrible, sad interview on "The View," Kamala Harris, what would you do different than Joe Biden? She couldn't think of anything.

Listen, in the end, Zohran is saying, it's not OK. It's not OK. People are struggling to make ends meet. Even middle class people are struggling to make ends meet. It's not OK. We're going to do something different. Democrats need to get that point.

BERMAN: I also met the late Robert Redford. Dick Cheney died today. We're also, you know, still mourning Robert Redford. One of my favorite lines in any political movie in "The Candidate," after he wins the Senate race, what does he say?

DE BLASIO: What are we going to do now?

BERMAN: What are we going to do now?

DE BLASIO: One of the greatest of all time.

BERMAN: Exactly. Is there going to be a moment like that for Zohran Mamdani?

CUPP: Yes.

BERMAN: Affordability is actually not as concrete of an issue as picking up your trash, which is what mayors do, right?

CUPP: Yes. Yes. Yes, I mean, listen, I don't know anyone, present company included, who is ready for this job on day one?

DE BLASIO: Correct.

CUPP: No, it's a giant city. It's a giant job. He will need the team around him. He'll need good actors at city council. He'll need a good relationship with Albany. He'll need so much help to get his agenda passed through and to do even half the things that he's promising to do. We'll have to see if he's up for that job. We don't know yet.

DE BLASIO: Let me tell you, he is a local assembly member from Queens. He understands you got to pick up the garbage. He understands, in the end, you got to fill the pothole. He also understands how much New York City needs to work with Albany, with our state legislature and our governor. He's actually a lot more ready to do those practical things than I think people realize. But also, you just spend time in a neighborhoods, you spend time with people, that's what they care about.

CUPP: Yes.

DE BLASIO: And he gets it. I'm' convinced.

BERMAN: We will see whether he gets the chance to do this. Voters still casting their ballots.

CUPP: Yes.

BERMAN: We should have the results tonight. Former Mayor Bill de Blasio, S.E. Cupp, great to see both of you. Thanks so much.

CUPP: You too.

BERMAN: And we got a lot more coming up. Stay with us.

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[08:56:43] BOLDUAN: Today, Virginia is set to make history, electing its first female governor, no matter who voters vote for. The candidates are Democrat Abigail Spanberger and Republican Winsome Earle-Sears. Polls are open, and we expect to see these candidates casting their ballots soon.

Spanberger has received the endorsement of former President Barack Obama. But when it comes to the current president, President Trump's endorsement, notably not explicitly happening. He joined a tele rally last night, said vote Republican, but did not mention the GOP candidate for governor by name.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every Virginia patriot should get out and vote, and all Republican up and down the line. The entire Democrat ticket in Virginia is totally unfit to hold office, frankly. I mean they are the worst.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now is Virginia state senator, chairman of the Democratic Party of Virginia, Lamont Bagby.

Thank you so much for being here.

One thing that Abigail Spanberger said yesterday is this, "I plan on sending an extraordinary message to the rest of the country. I plan on ensuring that we don't just win, but we crush it."

What does "crush it" look like today? A Spanberger win sends what message?

LAMONT BAGBY (D), VIRGINIA STATE SENATOR: Thank you and thank you for having me.

I think crushing it looks like a double -- double digits. And we're well on our way to doing that. We have over 1.4 million individuals that have already voted because when we had the trifecta in 2020 and 2021, we made voting easy and accessible here in the Commonwealth of Virginia. And so many voters have already voted. And we're going in, I believe, with a good margin. But today, Election Day, is where we approach the finish line. And we want to make sure that every voter gets out and makes their voice heard.

BOLDUAN: Many political minds say, what happens in Virginia is going to be a barometer, a measure of attitudes towards President Trump, attitudes towards where the Democratic Party is or should be.

So, if Winsome Earle-Sears, the Republican, wins, Spanberger does not, what message does that then send?

BAGBY: Well, if was a fifth, we'd all be drunk. And I hope we won't experience that this evening. But I tell you this, I know, as you just mentioned, that the world is watching. Not just the nation, the world is watching. And as our speaker, Don Scott, has mentioned, we plan to send a love letter to the entire world to say that we are standing up for democracy. We're standing up for those basic needs that I know that many Virginians are desperate for right now. And their hunger for change, literally and figuratively. And so, we have Abigail Spanberger, Ghazala Hashmi, Jay Jones and 100 members of the house of delegates candidates running to make sure that we deliver on health care, education and many other things that that Virginians are hurting for.

BOLDUAN: What is the one issue, the key issue, the lead issue on this election day for Virginians?

BAGBY: Those basic needs. We're under attack. And we see that. And I think you'll see many individuals, and we're seeing many individuals show up even on Election Day.

[09:00:00]

A lot of folks, wonder why individuals don't vote all early. Some people just enjoy voting on Election Day.