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Former Vice President Dick Cheney Dies at 84; Interview with Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-WA): Voters Cast Ballots for New York City Mayor, Governors of New Jersey and Virginia; FBI Agents Fired Over Pirro Objections; Trump Orders Pentagon to Prepare for Possible Action in Nigeria. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired November 04, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

ANDY CARD, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF UNDER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: ... He was never blindsided by some opinion or some recognition that the vice president might have that was contrary to what the president was doing or his staff was not playing ball appropriately. They were constructive because I think he led them to be constructive rather than have a contentious relationship between the vice president and the presidential staff.

But Dick Cheney also was there to help decide what should be done in the cabinet. His role as the Secretary of Defense under George H.W. Bush was just remarkable and that, as you recall, was the first Gulf War and that Gulf War was one that was started and ended within 100 days and all of our objectives were met and that was in big credit -- or a lot of credit should go to what Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney did for the country. But he was a smart, quiet until he had to speak up and then he would be forceful when he spoke up.

But he was a joy for me to work with because he never blindsided me. If he was going to go talk to the president, he would usually call me first and say, I'm going down to see the president to talk about this issue. If you'd like to come there, I'd like to have you there too or I'll report back to you what we talked about. He was very good at understanding the role of the chief of staff because he had been chief of staff before and he gave me a lot of respect and I respected him.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: He had an extraordinary career as vice president and as you point out in so many other roles. And it's really important, Andy, to have you with us today and we so appreciate it you can be with us to talk about his legacy. Thank you.

CARD: He will be missed. Thank you very much. God bless you.

KEILAR: Thank you.

And still to come, could today's election shine a spotlight on the importance of reaching out to younger voters? We're going to take a look at what's at stake for the future of both Republicans and Democrats at the polls today.

[14:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Voters in several states are casting ballots right now in the first major election of President Donald Trump's second term. The race for mayor of New York City is generating nationwide attention with Republicans trying to Democratic Socialist Zohran Mamdani as the new face of the Democratic Party.

Let's get some perspective from Washington State Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal. She's also the chair of the -- chair emeritus, I should say, of the Progressive Caucus and was out canvassing for Mamdani yesterday telling voters that he is electrifying the country. Congresswoman, thank you so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.

I want to start by getting your thoughts on some of the attacks that we've seen on Mamdani's proposals as being misleading or misguided. You have his rival, former Governor Andrew Cuomo, making the case that, for example, a mayor legally cannot unilaterally freeze the rent broadly on units across New York City. Further, that free busing and universal childcare would require action be on the local level at the state legislature. I wonder how you respond to the assertion that he's making promises that he won't be able to follow up on that he can't keep.

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Listen, Boris, thanks for having me on. Andrew Cuomo is a disgraced former governor. I don't think he's the one we should be listening to about what's possible and what isn't possible.

What I really believe is that Zohran Mamdani has shown that when you stand up and fight for people and when you commit to getting something done, that you can build a winning campaign and do the work to actually deliver those results. Now, I know there's a lot of times when people tell us that the ideas that we have aren't possible, but I think what you are seeing is people across New York City and across the country, in races across the country, people are saying, we need you to stand up and fight for us and deliver for us, and we will be there to support you in that endeavor. So, I think that's what he's done.

He's constructed an incredible campaign around affordability issues that New Yorkers really care about, and he is putting together the team that will be able to govern and deliver those things. And yes, it's going to require a lot of work, a lot of partnerships, but I have a lot of faith in him to deliver on that as well.

SANCHEZ: It's not just the former governor. Fellow Democrat Abigail Spanberger, running for governor of Virginia, says that there is a risk that if these ideas don't come to fruition, voters who believe in him will wind up disenchanted and potentially angry with the party as a whole. You don't share that concern?

JAYAPAL: Listen, I think that's what's happened right now with the moderate centrist way that we've been approaching things as Democrats for too long. We've forsaken our working class. We've told our base that they don't really matter, that they're too idealistic.

We haven't stood up and fought for stuff in a way that really delivers results. And if you think that we're winning based on that approach, then, you know, I think we've been missing the point. So, my point really is that Zohran Mamdani and candidates across the country, we've got some great races here in Seattle, across the country, are showing that we need a new way and that the Democratic Party also has to step up.

The Republican Party is terrible right now.

[14:40:00]

What they are pushing has been just so bad for people's ability to just live. But the Democratic Party also has to stand up and offer the contrast and the alternative. And I think that's what we're going to see winning across the country.

SANCHEZ: I'm not eager to invoke the former governor again in this conversation, but it seems like you do agree with him on the point that this race is indicative of a war of ideas, a civil war, as he puts it, for your party's future, or at least a generational rift. Do you agree with that?

JAYAPAL: I mean, I just don't have much regard for what he says. So good on you for not necessarily invoking him again. Look, I think there is a fight for the soul of this country.

And it is happening from Donald Trump and what he's doing, the violence he's inflicting by using people's hunger, using people's paychecks as a way to bully his way and do illegal things, even say that he's not going to follow a court order on releasing SNAP funds. There is certainly a fight in this country.

What I want to make sure of is that Democrats are on the winning side of that fight, that we're not just an opposition party to the Republicans and to Trump, but that we're also a proposition party that has ideas of how to make life better for working people and for poor people, and that we cater not to a tiny slice of America that may live only in the suburbs.

We certainly need those folks, but we also need our base. We need people that have lost faith in the Democratic Party to come back to us. And that's what you see in New York. That's what you see in Seattle. That's what you see across the country is people saying, you know what, we need to trust you that you're going to fight for us. We need to hear your ideas on how you're going to make life better for us.

And yes, we need you to deliver as well. So that will be obviously the next test, but we certainly have a remarkable opportunity to show the contrast and to really show to really show what it's fights to build a winning -- what it looks like to build a winning coalition.

SANCHEZ: Part of that base that you described as having to win back is young voters. They slid, even though Democrats still have a majority of them, many young voters, especially young voters of color, moved to the Republican Party in the last election. And I wonder, given that millennials and Gen Z make up more of the population than baby boomers, proportionally, they don't see that kind of representation in Congress.

And in the House, it's especially notable. Democrats have nearly double the number of Republicans ages 70 or older in the House. Broadly speaking, do you think Democrats have an age problem?

JAYAPAL: I mean, look, I think that I've always been somebody who has said we need to make sure we're bringing in new people, not just bringing them into Congress, but also bringing them into leadership ranks. But at the end of the day, no matter what generation you're from, you've got to be able to deliver. And I think the challenge has been that we Democrats have really said we don't care about young people.

And so, they got frustrated with us. Some of them left and voted for Republicans. But I will tell you, the majority of young people just weren't voting.

You have 90 million people in America who didn't vote in the last presidential election. And I think that that's where we need to really devote focus is what brings those folks back. And just telling people that they're too idealistic and that they don't know how things really work and that they should just leave it to us to, you know, to be the trusted ones and not really engage with how we deliver something for them and how we respect their views and listen to people.

That's a surefire way to lose. I think what Zohran has done and what we're seeing across the country with those of us who have been pushing for the Democratic Party to be much stronger is that people respond to us and they trust us and that they see us as authentic messengers. And I think that the Democratic Party as a whole does have work to do on that.

But let's not forget that the most damage that's being done, the reason that this is more important than ever is because of the destruction that Republicans, Trump administration and others in Congress who refuse to stand up to the cult president, that you know, we really do have to show how we are different.

SANCHEZ: Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, we have to leave the conversation there. Always appreciate your time and perspective. Look forward to the next one.

JAYAPAL: Thank you, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still to come, why did D.C.'s federal prosecutor Jeanine Pirro step in and put a stop to the firing of four FBI agents? And then why did they get fired again just a day later? We'll discuss next.

[14:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Fired yet again. Sources say at least four FBI agents have been terminated for a second time after the U.S. attorney in D.C., Jeanine Pirro, intervened to reverse the initial firings. The FBI leadership ended up winning this tug of war.

SANCHEZ: CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez is here. So, Evan, what happened? Why did Pirro get involved?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is part of a larger purge that's been going on at the FBI. It's the latest version of this. It has to do with agents who are involved in this Arctic Frost investigation.

You remember back in the 2021 era, there was an effort to seat fake electors that would vote for Trump, even for states that he had lost. And so that became part of an FBI investigation, eventually part of the special counsel investigation. So, on Friday and on Monday, there were a total of six agents who were removed from their roles.

[14:50:00]

Jeanine Pirro stepped in on Monday to try to get them -- get at least four of those people rehired to essentially undo their firings. But then today, the FBI re-fired those four that Jeanine Pirro had stepped in. Now, Pirro was trying to save the jobs of these agents because they're involved in some of the cases that she's doing.

You know, she's doing the crime crackdown here in Washington, which is very important to President Trump. That is her argument. I'll read you just a quote from the FBI Agents Association, which has raised some concerns about this.

They said, "The actions yesterday -- in which special agents were terminated and then reinstated shortly after, and then only to be fired again -- highlight the chaos that occurs when longstanding policies and processes are ignored."

The concern here is that some of these firings are being done without any of the due process that happens inside the FBI normally, where you have an investigation, internal investigation. And if someone did something wrong, then they can be fired. In this case, it appears people are being fired simply because they worked on a case that was -- something that relates to President Trump and the whole effort to overturn the 2020 election, even though he had lost.

SANCHEZ: Evan Perez, thank you so much for that update.

Still to come, President Trump's sudden focus on Nigeria, including the possibility of sending in U.S. troops, may have all been sparked by something he saw on television. We'll explain.

[14:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KEILAR: A new CNN report is giving insight into a social media post by President Trump over the weekend. One where he left open the possibility of military action in Nigeria, as he accuses the nation of not stemming violence against Christians.

SANCHEZ: We're now hearing from sources that the president's post came after he watched a segment on Fox News covering this issue. Sources say the president was immediately angered by reports of Christians being targeted by Islamic groups. CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter joins us now.

Brian, you went back and watched the coverage that the president did. What did you find?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: That's right. And this is something that was being covered on Fox News for a couple of days, leading up to the Friday afternoon segment that the president happened to be watching. His post on Truth Social was prompted by this Fox segment.

We can show a part of it on screen from last Friday. He then immediately composed this Truth Social post that caused quite a bit of action at the Pentagon, as some people had to be called in to work on plans and also caused outrage over in Nigeria.

I mentioned this has been brewing on Fox for a couple of days. Let me show you an example of that. This is from last Thursday morning on Fox and Friends. Notice exactly what the anchor says here, setting up the segment.

You can tell that this is a form of activism by Fox's show trying to get the president's attention. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Trump administration is being urged to designate Nigeria a country of particular concern over the persecution and mass murder of Christians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: So, a very clear message there from Fox's morning show. A message that was repeated several times on Thursday and Friday. And like I said, CNN's reporting indicates that it was Friday afternoon that the president noticed it and then quickly reacted.

Senators like Ted Cruz have been calling attention to this issue, trying to get legislation introduced to get that designation of Nigeria. Cruz was featured in the Fox segment. So to me, this is an interesting example of using the Fox airwaves to lobby the president of the United States.

This is a phenomenon we've seen. We saw many times during Trump's first term in office, when the president would frequently react to the Fox morning show and react and sometimes call for action as a result. We haven't seen it as often in Trump's second term, but this Nigeria example shows it is still happening.

And as for Trump's claims about a mass slaughter of Christians, regional experts say the reality is more nuanced, as both Christians and Muslims have been victims of attacks by radical Islamists in the country. Security experts say the problems there are driven by various factors, including religiously motivated attacks.

KEILAR: And turning to another topic now, Brian, far right activist Laura Loomer says she has press credentials to cover the Pentagon. What do you think about learning that?

STELTER: This is another example of Pete Hegseth and his team trying to remake the Pentagon press corps, putting in explicitly pro-Trump voices who are much more known for opinions and in some cases propaganda than they are for investigative reporting. Of course, there are dozens of major news outlets that decided to turn in Pentagon press credentials earlier this fall, rather than go along with Hegseth's restrictive new rules.

The Pentagon, those reporters, including from CNN, are still covering the military on a daily basis, still coming up with scoops. They're just not having physical access to the building.

But it's created this opening for MAGA media outlets to request credentials and now propose or present themselves as the new Pentagon press corps, although figures like Laura Loomer are not actually out there breaking news on the beat. We know Loomer has been taking credit for a number of firings inside the Trump administration.

She has earned so-called scalps. She has posted about this repeatedly on X, where she'll post opposition research about someone, and then the Trump administration will oust that person in a matter of hours or days. So, the idea that she may have physical access to the Pentagon is very interesting.

It's also notable she's been out there asking for tips. She's been asking out there for people's information. And that's exactly what the Pentagon requirements, the new Pentagon restrictions, are actually designed to stop.

We'll see if the Pentagon decides to enforce its press credential rules with Laura Loomer.

KEILAR: Yes, very interesting. Brian Stelter, thank you so much.

So, David Beckham is a --

END