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Transportation Secretary on Flight Cancellations; Major Cuts to Flights As Air Traffic Controllers Work Without Pay; Soon: Trump Meets With Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban. Aired 9:30-10 am ET

Aired November 07, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SEAN DUFFY, U.S. SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: -- but I've talked to the President, I've talked to the White House. They are fully read in on what we're doing. And when I -- when I look to the safety team, the White House also looks to the safety team to help us make the right decisions to do the best we can to keep people safe. But there's an easy answer. There is an easy answer. Open up the government. Stop this.

And by the way, when I make decisions to do the best we can to keep people safe, but there's an easy answer. There is an easy answer.

Open up the government. Stop this. And by the way, when I was in Congress, we had shutdowns. I stayed here for a month. I didn't fly home. I sat in my office working on deals, working on solutions. Why are senators going home? If you can vote 14 times to keep the government shut down and create this gridlock in our airports and you're going to go home? They should sit here.

Like Americans sit in airports, they should sit in their offices. They should sit in the Senate and figure out how they're going to come up with a deal to open this back up and not use the American people as leverage. You had a question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you talk about the morale of the air traffic controllers right now? Obviously, long hours, not coming to work, unpaid for the last couple of weeks. What's the morale like?

DUFFY: So, the -- listen, you don't get paid. You're stressed about paying for your family's food on the table. There is stress, you know, and we see that. They're not happy. But you know what? Most of these men and women are great professionals. I've told you this. We don't have the best equipment. We do have the best controllers and they work really hard and they care deeply about keeping Americans safe through our airspace.

I'm grateful to them for that. But let's not lie about the pressure they're under. What's happened is a lot of the same controllers come to work every single day. We have that group and we have another group that has a longer record of not showing up. And so the ones who do come to work, they're the ones that are working six days a week, 10 hours a day. And you can do that. All of you guys, you guys work big hours. You can do that for a couple of weeks. But at one point, you're going to get burned out. You're going to get burned out. And that's what we're seeing now. There's a higher level of fatigue with the controllers because they've been doing this for a long time as we've tried to mitigate the impact of the shutdown.

But now when we see numbers go in the wrong direction, the data go in the wrong direction, we have to take preemptive action to meet our obligation. First one is keep the airspace safe. That is the first job we have.

And by the way, at DOT, we do a lot of things, a lot of things. This is the most important. And that's why we're taking the action today. I'll do one more question before I go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even if the government does reopen next week, when could we start to see flights resume as normal? Could this spill into Thanksgiving and the holiday season?

DUFFY: That's a great question. So, if the government opens on day one, will I see an immediate response from controllers? No, the union is telling me it's going to take time to get them all back in. OK. I don't wish this was the circumstance in which I was dealing with.

So, I imagine as we see the data change and more controllers come to work, we are as quickly as possible going to take these restrictions away. That's -- that's the best approach. But we have to -- we have to look at how many controllers come to work and how long that takes after the government opens back up.

And here's what's hard for us. It's not one -- it's not one tower. It's not one TRACON. It's not one community. One day it's L.A., the next day it's, you know, it's DCA, then it's New York, and then it's Orlando. It's not the same place every single day, but we do see these staffing triggers, which means more controllers calling in sick. And I -- there's no rhyme or reason to it, which is why we are taking this action to reduce the pressure. And again, hopefully what we're going to do today is going to make sure the airspace is safer than it was as we go through this -- this shutdown.

And so my last message is I'm going to go talk to passengers. My message is enough. You've inflicted enough pain on the American people. I hope -- I hope those who vote to keep the government shut down will come to an airport and they should introduce themselves to the travelers and ask them if it's worth it. Is their delay worth it? Is their cancellation worth it? And I think the resounding answer to that will be no.

And so open it up. Open it up and go through the process that our founders set up for us, which is debates and votes. With that, thank you all. I appreciate you coming out. Thank you, guys. I appreciate it.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. That's Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy at Washington, Reagan just now taking questions. Let me -- joining us right now is actually Nick Daniels, one of the

people he was, like -- the secretary is actually talking about in his remarks right there, the president of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association.

Nick, thank you for coming in. I hope you were able to hear everything that the secretary said. One of the things that he said is with this new chapter that we're now entering with them reducing flights and reducing air traffic, he said there could be maybe a benefit, which is if you can get the controllers back to work, that he's asked the head of the union to reach out to them, to ask them to show up because it's their job. If they start coming in, it'll be similar to Newark, which is they had delays. They reduced capacity and it worked out. Is that true?

[09:35:17]

NICK DANIELS, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS ASSOCIATION: Good morning. Appreciate you having me.

Listen, anytime that we have this much stress, this much pressure in the system, what we're really referring to is the increased risk that's out there. About air traffic controllers being 100 percent, 100 percent of the time, they have to go to work and be perfect. It's very difficult to go to work and concentrate on every task at hand, make thousands of decisions a day when the number one thing that you have to worry about right now is, did I even have enough money to get to work? 37 days without pay and these air traffic controllers, the issues are mounting.

In real life, it's a -- it's a reality that if you have no income, no end in sight, hopelessness sitting just on your shoulder, day in and day out, that's going to create problems. These controllers have to be fit for duty when they go in and yes, if we can make it to work, every single air traffic controller out there, we're doing everything we can. We are proud professionals. We want to do an amazing job. But the real answer is ending this shutdown and quit using us as the political pawn and waiting to see how long we can last.

BOLDUAN: Nick, to the Secretary's point, he seems to suggest that the step they're taking in reducing air traffic, and he says in the name of safety, could convince air traffic controllers to come to more air traffic controllers to come back to work. Do you think that is the case? Reducing capacity in the air is going to convince air traffic controllers to come back to work?

DANIELS: Air traffic controllers are showing up every day.

BOLDUAN: Right.

DANIELS: That's why there's still millions of people traveling, tens of thousands of flights every single day, very few cancellations. But yes, there is disruption. There is frustration. There is always something we're going to contend with. And that's the fact that this system was fragile before it even began. We are 3,800 certified controllers short. So, the absence of one or two absolutely hurts. We're seeing air traffic controllers resign. We didn't see that in 2019. We are 400 less controllers short today than we were in the 2019 shutdown. And now they've been stretched so thin for so long with so much going on, so much pressure on their backs that they're actually resigning from the profession.

So, it's not just about coming back to work. It's about keeping the very ones that we have. And as Secretary Duffy said, they think that this is a measure that will help in any time that you have this much risk built up in a system.

Controllers not 100 percent being able to lock in and focus. Every day being different, yes, reducing capacity is one of the main mechanisms to help increase the safety of the system, or Congress could act and open the government today.

BOLDUAN: You mentioned -- air traffic controllers being used as political pawns. I wanted to ask you about that because Duffy had said the decision is data-driven and he's made very clear he says this is not about politics. But I'm hearing from Democrats like Steve Cohen saying that it is politics. The way Steve Cohen, a congressman, puts it is, "This is a political move by the Trump administration to try to force Democrats to accede to their budget and priorities, which cut health care and nutritional benefits from seniors, children, and people with disabilities."

Do you think that both sides or one side is trying to use air traffic controllers as leverage to get the other side to cave?

DANIELS: No. First, I'll leave the political discussion to the politicians. There's always going to be, you know, varying opinions that are left out there. What the reality is, is exactly what you said from the beginning, that we are always being used as a political pawn during a government shutdown.

We are the rope in the tug-of-war game, and to try and somehow put it on their backs, on aviation safety professionals' backs, on the technicians that are out there, and the entire aviation community and federal employees, workers are saying, let's see how long they can last, how much pain is inflicted, and, you know, what happens when they eventually run out of money.

We know the problems are going to get worse. They're going to increase, and anything that helps improve safety, we 100 percent stand by ensuring the safety of the American flying public. We are going to show up. We are going to do the job. We are going to do everything we can, but what we can't do is somehow, suddenly put money in our own pockets. We need Congress to open the government to do that.

[09:40:01]

BOLDUAN: No, we couldn't. Real quick, one thing Duffy raised is that even if a deal is struck and it's going to take time to get air traffic controllers back in, how much time will it take to get back to, quote-unquote, "normal," even if they struck a deal today? DANIELS: Well, they're already at work right now with zero dollars.

What we're seeing is the fact, can they get to work? So, I think the term of art of calling in sick is probably being a bit misconstrued throughout this process.

People aren't calling in sick. They're either fit for duty or they're not, but what they're having issues with is getting to work. They are saying, especially our new employees that are just training or starting out in this career, they have moved hundreds, if not thousands of miles in the highest cost of living area there is, trying to start out their life and saying, they're calling their employer and saying, I have no gas today. I have -- I cannot pay for my childcare. Can I bring my children to work? These are real situations.

We cannot just continue to sit out there. They're already racking up their credit cards. They're taking out every loan that they can and to somehow think that this system is going to run perfect 37 days later, that people aren't going to have real problems when they're expecting pay.

We're not out here begging for more. We're out here saying, give us what we deserve. And that is completely un-American to keep these people's wages from them every single day that this continues to drag on.

So, they're showing up, they're doing everything they can, but real- life situations are happening. And it will take time because it will take over two months for them to get the proper back pay that they deserve from what they earned in October.

BOLDUAN: That's just another example of how the lingering effects of this are not going to be short. Nick Daniels, thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate it.

We have a lot more breaking news after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:46:19]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We're standing by for President Trump to welcome his close ally, Viktor Orban of Hungary, to the White House this morning. A big topic they will be discussing is, of course, Russia.

Hungary's authoritarian leader has kept close ties with the Kremlin throughout the war. In Ukraine, Hungary relies heavily on Russian oil. And Orban is expected to push for an exemption from new U.S. sanctions when it comes to the use of Russian oil. Last year, Orban visited the president at Mar-a-Lago, afterwards posting this video highlighting their burgeoning friendship.

Joining me now, Evelyn Farkas, the former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia. Thank you so much for being here. Look, the Hungarian prime minister is right wing. He's anti-

immigration. He's a nationalist. And Trump has become quite friendly with him. What is Orban trying to get out of the U.S.? And what is Trump trying to get out of Orban?

EVELYN FARKAS, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR RUSSIA, UKRAINE, EURASIA, BALKANS, CAUCASUS: Right. I mean, there are a couple of things, Sara, that Prime Minister Orban is trying to get out of President Trump. First of all, he does want a waiver from the secondary sanctions that Hungary would face if they continued in the face of U.S. sanctions to import Russian oil and gas.

The second thing he wants, he's in a really tough election. He wants President Trump to make him look like an international leader, you know, to help him with his domestic audience. So, those are the two concrete things.

For President Trump, it's unclear really what he gets, frankly, from Viktor Orban. Yes, we know in the past that Viktor Orban has come here. He's presented the conservative CPAC conference with his, quote- unquote, "recipe" for creating an illiberal democracy, which is basically taking over democracy and making it not a democracy, which is what Viktor Orban has done.

It's very hard for the opposition in Hungary to compete against him, although as a mark of how unpopular he is, they're doing it right now.

SIDNER: Yeah, that is a very good point, sort of putting himself on the world stage to show some kind of dominance to the folks back home. I do want to ask -- talk to you about how Europe sees this. You know, Prime Minister Orban is a close ally of Russia and has proposed hosting the summit to get a meeting with Putin and Trump for peace talks concerning the war in Ukraine.

E.U. critics have just said, look, Orban is Putin's Trojan horse. Why should Europe be so worried about this growing, friendly relationship between Trump and Orban?

FARKAS: Yeah, I mean, Sara, this is a troubling relationship that's existed for some time now, actually, even in the first Trump administration, they were close. Viktor Orban is not only close with Putin and Russia, but also with China. Hungary has welcomed a lot of investment in the education sector, in their infrastructure as well from China.

So, let's not forget that there's an aspect that goes even beyond Putin and Russia. You know, there they are kindred spirits in the sense that they both like to be, you know, the executive in power. President Trump has made no, no, you know, secret of the fact that he wants to have that much control over our democracy as well.

And you know, Orban is somebody that he can rely on. And the conservatives also have relied on for these very nationalist messages that are also heavily, how should I put it? They're not liberal. They're -- they're -- they're very Christian, but also, frankly, racist and antisemitic. [09:50:01]

SIDNER: Evelyn Farkas, there is a lot to unpack there. This meeting is going to happen sometime today between the two leaders. Thank you so much. I do appreciate you. Have a great weekend.

Ahead, Tesla has set up Elon Musk to possibly become the world's first trillionaire. What does that actually look like? Ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: So, you may have heard it. Tesla shareholders have approved a pay package that could make Elon Musk the world's first trillionaire. This money would come in the form of Tesla shares and that would be worth $1 trillion over the course of the next 10 years. It is a number, when you look at it, it is hard to wrap your mind around.

[09:55:06]

So, to start, it is the equivalent of making $275 million a day. And after picking your jaw up off the ground, it is likely maybe also having you wondering, what could that get you? The short answer is everything.

With $1 trillion, you have now the ability to buy 1,428 Shohei Ohtani's, the Dodgers superstar has a $700 million contract. You could also, if that's not your jam, you could also buy 10,000 Starbucks CEOs. The coffee chain boss makes $100 million a year.

If you want a Coca-Cola comparison, we have it for you. You can buy Coca-Cola, the entire company, as well as a Coke for every person on the planet.

And, not to be outdone, you could also buy Switzerland. You may not be able to buy a country, maybe that's still in dispute, but that is about the equivalent of Switzerland's GDP right now.

So, in the off chance that someone has a physical pile of $1 trillion, we wanted to show you what it would actually look like compared to other large mounds of cash.

For the purposes of this exercise, let us show you now what $1 million would look like in our studio. Yes, one can dream. Then, let's show you $1 million compared to $1 billion. With $1 billion, you could spend over $100,000 a day for 25 years and still have money left over. So, on to that. That is a trillion dollars.

You can barely see the million. The billion is also teeny in comparison. And as our money team put it, we are entering an era in which companies and their CEOs can amass wealth in numbers so large our brains actually don't know how to understand them.

SIDNER: I'm going to end as a grouch. There could be a lot of things paid for. A lot of families are struggling. When you see that amount of money.

BOLDUAN: Hard to wrap your mind around, $1 trillion. That's for sure.

SIDNER: But it's the weekend. My goodness.

BOLDUAN: It is the weekend.

SIDNER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Thank you all so much for joining us.

SIDNER: Situation Room --

BOLDUAN: This is the CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SIDNER: -- up next.

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