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Frustrated Travelers Scramble to Find Flights Amid Disruptions; Democrats Expected to Block GOP Push to Reopen Government; CBO Says Between $7 Billion and $14 Billion Permanently Lost Due to Shutdown; Democrats Want to Question Former Prince Andrew on Epstein Ties. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 07, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:30:45]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: On Day 38 of the government shutdown, the depth of the effect really hitting airports across the country. More than 800 flights have been canceled today as the FAA orders airlines to reduce flights. Still, there have been at least 15 reports of staffing problems at Air Traffic Control facilities. CNN's Jason Carroll joins us live from Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey. Jason, what have you been seeing there today?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first, we have heard about some of those staffing issues throughout the day at the control tower here at Newark's Airport. In addition to that, Phil as you can imagine, we've also heard from a number of passengers here on the ground, extremely frustrated about their travel experiences. All this after the FAA cut flights to 40 of the busiest airports all over the country, Newark being one of them.

In addition to that, you also had, JFK, LaGuardia, places like Miami, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Memphis. Chances are, Phil, if you know someone who's traveling today, in all likelihood, you may know someone who's been impacted by this. Again, speaking to a lot of people this morning, throughout the afternoon, spoke to a number of people who were either delayed or their flights were canceled. Many of the folks that we spoke to decided just to forget the airlines and go with driving instead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm renting a car. I have to be back in Utah by Tuesday. And from what I hear with the counters, the airline counters and TSA, they literally said to me, if I were you I wouldn't travel over the next three days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said, yeah, you're still going to be flying out at 10 o'clock. Well, of course, 10 o'clock came and went.

CARROLL: 10, this is 10 o'clock.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10 o'clock at night.

CARROLL: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then they said, cancel flight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But it wasn't even on the board. And we just went to an agent and they looked it up and they said, nope, that's canceled too. And of course, the whole board, there were so many cancellations. So, we're going to just rent a car and drive.

(LAUGH)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, well, we ended up getting a hotel.

CARROLL: Drive from == drive from where?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From here to Wilmington, North Carolina. People are really hurting out here. And it's not just the traveling public, but it's affecting the whole economy. And you people are to blame it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: And Phil, when he says you people, you know he's talking about lawmakers there in D.C. This government shutdown really impacting people here, people here on the ground. And you can see -- you can see that they're frustrated. You can hear that they're frustrated. Again, pointing the finger directly at lawmakers at this point. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Yeah. Newark to Utah, I'd be frustrated too with that drive. Jason Carroll, great reporting, my friend, as always. Erica?

ERICA HILL, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": All right, let's continue to discuss. Democratic Congressman, Robert Garcia of California joins us now. Congressman, good to have you with us. You just heard the frustration, I'm sure, from some of the folks my colleague Jason Carroll was talking with there in Newark. The head of the Air Traffic Controllers Association is calling on Congress to pass the clean CR, as are leaders at United and Delta.

We have Secretary Duffy who says there have been more close calls in the air. Is any of this changing the calculation for Democrats?

REP. ROBERT GARCIA, (D-CA) TRANSPORTATION & INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE: Well, I think what's really important is that Mike Johnson, the Speaker, actually calling us back into session. We've been essentially, because of Mike Johnson, not in D.C. for the last month. And I think what you heard there in that segment is absolutely right. Folks are frustrated and we've been saying from day one to actually keep us in D.C. and negotiate an actual budget that supports working- class people and middle-class families.

Right now, what's really critical is that we ensure that not only we reopen the government so people can take their flights, people can get paid to work for the federal government, but also that premiums on healthcare for the American public don't skyrocket. And I'm talking -- I was just at our airport, talked to a lot of folks there. People not only are frustrated about the flights, they're frustrated that they're starting to get letters saying that their premiums are going to, in some cases, more than double on their healthcare costs.

And so, once again, Mike Johnson should have us back in D.C. We should be negotiating a budget that doesn't give tax breaks to billionaires. And I'm hopeful that we're close to a deal.

HILL: You're hope -- but what gives you hope that you're close to a deal? Is it what we're seeing out of the Senate that gives you some hope?

GARCIA: Well, it looks like finally -- it does. I mean, finally, it sounds like there's some sort of negotiation happening out of the Senate. I'm also hearing more and more from Republican colleagues in the House that they are frustrated.

[13:35:00]

They're upset at Mike Johnson for not bringing us back. And they're ready to actually having a real negotiation to talk about ensuring that healthcare costs don't skyrocket. So all of those, I think, are, are good developments.

HILL: I was struck by some reporting that CNN had earlier this week, that there are some in your party who were hoping to actually continue riding Tuesday's strong election results through the weekend to make the rounds on the political Sunday shows, keep it going, and then potentially work on agreeing to a deal. Are you comfortable with that political calculus?

GARCIA: I think the best political calculus is to have us all in D.C. right now and to call Congress back into session. And the fact that it's been over a month that Mike Johnson, our Speaker, has felt that it's been OK to keep people away from D.C., I think has been a huge mistake and it just hurts American working-class families. We know that right now there's a crisis about to happen at our airports. It's been brewing.

We also know that people's healthcare costs are skyrocketing. There's an easy fix here. Stop giving tax breaks to billionaires and large corporations, and extend the Affordable Care Act subsidies which are so important to the average American. I am hopeful that finally, we'll get some progress here in the Senate. And Mike Johnson should bring us back today to start negotiating.

HILL: As we look at all of that, let's talk us about some of the numbers that we're seeing. So the CBO estimating between $7 billion and $14 billion is going to be permanent loss because of the shutdown. Combining those long-term impacts with what it sounds like you are hearing from your constituents, certainly what we're hearing at the airport, there's a short-term pain of air travel, but there are also pause benefits, SNAP benefits, $0 paychecks.

There is the political question. I know you keep talking about negotiation. We know some of that is happening as you granted, right, with your colleagues in the Senate. There is some happening there. I know you want Mike Johnson to bring that House back. But if that is not going to happen, how long do you think Democrats should continue this fight? Again, are you comfortable with this turning into more of a political fight at this point? And even making sure that it gets sort of a win on a talk show, for example?

GARCIA: This shouldn't be a political fight. I think what this has to be, and from day one, this has to be a fight to ensure that costs don't go up for the American family. And that's what we've been saying from day one. And I can't -- I'll say, I've talked to a lot of federal workers, back home across the country, and they've all said, look, we know this is hard, but we also need to ensure that our healthcare costs don't skyrocket, that my kid can stay on my healthcare insurance.

I mean, all of these things matter. And what I don't understand is why Republicans have been so insistent and obsessed on all of these tax breaks going to billionaires and seeing our economy suffer, while not actually addressing the affordability crisis in this country. And there's nothing that matters more to most folks when it comes to affordability than the cost of their healthcare. That's what we should be focused on, the cost of rent, the cost of grocery prices.

And we could have been working on all of these issues, even as we're having this debate, an important debate about the budget and the CR, we could have been discussing these other issues, but we've been on vacation per Mike Johnson. It's outrageous. And more and more people in his party are saying, what are you doing? Bring Congress back into D.C.

HILL: As we watch and wait for those developments on that. And I do want to ask you, Democrats on House Oversight, of which you're a Ranking Member, sent this letter to now former Prince Andrew, specifically requesting that he come to Washington to be questioned as part of the panel's investigation into Jeffrey Epstein. Is this an invitation, in all seriousness, that you are expecting a response to?

GARCIA: We would hope so. I mean, we should be really clear. Obviously, the former Prince has been accused of horrific crimes against women and underage girls. He's obviously being, I think, meeting justice in the U.K., the people of the U.K., certainly the royal family and others, he's getting the right response for what he has been accused of doing. It is important. Now, he has an opportunity to do the right thing and to help our investigation and to bring justice for the women and girls that have been abused.

And so, whether he wants to come and answer our questions here in the U.S. or we go meet him in the U.K., he has an opportunity right now to actually begin -- begin to actually rectify the horrific actions that he's been involved with and clearly has been accused of, including recently of course, by Virginia Giuffre and others. And so, we are very serious that Prince Andrew would be a critical piece of our investigation. We think he actually knows a lot of key facts that would help us on our investigation, get justice for the victims and survivors of Jeffrey Epstein.

HILL: Congressman Robert Garcia, appreciate your time today. Thank you.

Just ahead here, are the nationwide flight reductions actually helping air traffic controllers? We'll discuss after this.

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[13:44:11]

MATTINGLY: Breaking News into CNN, Transportation Secretary, Sean Duffy now floating the idea that the FAA could be forced to cancel as much as 20 percent of flights in the U.S. That number, of course, double the 10 percent that could be canceled starting on Friday. Now it's a hypothetical, but a number that certainly would cause even more frustration if it came to fruition.

Air traffic controllers who have been working without pay during this political standoff are bearing the brunt of this shutdown. A union president telling CNN air traffic controllers are resigning daily and it's happening at a time when the FAA is already 400 controllers short. Melanie Dickman is a pilot and she runs the Air Traffic Controller program at the Ohio State University. I really appreciate your time.

Just to start with here, because I think a lot of people are trying to figure this out. You look at kind of the graduated scale that has been laid out, 4 percent today, 6 percent on Tuesday, 10 percent a week from today.

[13:45:00]

Secretary Duffy said it's not a science, but it's to keep people safe. What's your sense of what this actually means?

MELANIE DICKMAN, PILOT: Well, I know they have been looking at the data and they've been analyzing and trying to keep safety in mind as they do this. What this is going to mean for passengers is that your flight may be canceled, unfortunately. What we're hoping, or what they're hoping I think, is that with a cancellation that is sure to be a cancellation, we may have fewer delays. But that's honestly really not -- that's -- we don't know. That we don't know. So I know that's one of the hopes, but they're just trying to keep things safe, I think, fewer planes in the air.

MATTINGLY: To that point, do you feel like it is safe to fly right now? Like if you're looking at, you have a reservation or you might book a reservation and you're seeing all of this happen and all this uncertainty, do you feel like it is safe?

DICKMAN: I do think it's safe. I'm not sure that it's as safe as it was last year or even three months ago, but it is still very safe. I think the big wrench in things is the convenience aspect because those controllers are consummate professionals, and they're going to go in and they're going to do their job. And constantly, safety is at the forefront of their mind. And this is why they show up every day without pay. MATTINGLY: Yeah, it's the highest stress job I think you could ever think of and the dedication to that profession has long been remarkable to me. The idea though, working without pay, it's been almost a month, more than a month now, your husband is an air traffic manager at the Ohio State University Airport. Can you help us understand the impact on families that this is having for controllers right now?

DICKMAN: So from the controllers I have talked to, and I won't really talk about my husband and myself, but we are just, our heart is absolutely with these FAA controllers who are going now with their second paycheck with a $0 pay. It is really impact impacting families, like you said. So we've had people leaving and we've had people retiring early. When they're eligible to retire, instead of staying like they had planned, they are actually saying, you know what? I'm going to take retirement as early as I can.

We're also looking at some of the younger controllers who just got out of the academy and they're starting their career with a $0 paycheck. So, we're looking at also these middle, mid-career people with families who are saying, you know what? This isn't worth it anymore. I have worked 60-hour weeks for years. I've worked mandatory overtime and I've missed kids' soccer games. I've missed baseball games. I've missed dance recitals. And we don't see an end in sight to that piece of it.

So some of them are saying, you know what? I'm young enough. I've got aviation experience. I'm going to go work for an airline. I'm going to go work. I'm going to do something else. I'm going to pivot and I'm going to have a good quality of life.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, those are really important second, third order effects that people need to understand in this moment. Melanie Dickman, really appreciate your expertise, contractually obligated to say, Go Buckeyes, as an Ohio State alum.

(LAUGH)

MATTINGLY: Appreciate it very much for your time. Erica?

HILL: In case you didn't know, Phil went to Ohio State. Let's get a look at some of the other headlines we're watching this hour. Central Vietnam dealing with the devastating aftermath of a deadly typhoon. Vietnamese state media says that powerful storm has killed at least five people, injured seven others as heavy rain flooded communities and swept away homes. All this just days after that same typhoon left a deadly trail of destruction in the Philippines, killing more than a hundred people there.

President Trump pardoning a former Tennessee House speaker convicted of money laundering, fraud, and conspiracy. The charges against Glen Casada and his former chief of staff stemmed from a kickback scheme tied to state contracts. White House official telling CNN, the administration believes the pair were unfairly prosecuted under former President Biden's Justice Department, despite the investigation into Casada beginning during Donald Trump's first term and the judge who oversaw that case, by the way, a Trump appointee.

Caught on camera in Florida where police were chasing a suspected thief when this happened. Right through the ceiling, there you go. According to our affiliate, WPBF, the man was accused of stealing a pickup truck before barricading himself in his home. As authorities tried to get him out of the attic, I guess, he made it a little easier on them when he came crashing down.

[13:50:00]

The sheriff on the scene says, "When bad guys are committed to running from us, sometimes crazy things happen."

Up next, a long-shot bid to end same sex marriage. We're going to discuss today's closed-door meeting between Supreme Court justices right after this.

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HILL: The Supreme Court is meeting behind closed doors today to consider a long-shot request to overturn a decade-old precedent.

[13:55:00]

Kim Davis, who's a former Kentucky County clerk who refused to issue a marriage license to a same-sex couple citing her religious objections, is asking the Supreme Court to overturn its 2015 decision on same-sex marriage. A federal court found that she actually violated a court order in denying that license. Davis has been fighting and losing this case for years at this point, but her attorney says the nation's highest court should reconsider its decision.

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MATHEW STAVER, ATTORNEY FOR KIM DAVIS: Obergefell is on very weak ground, even weaker ground than Roe v. Wade. It was an opinion by five people that invented a right that doesn't exist. And consequently, we need to interpret the Constitution according to its understanding and its intent. And this gives the court an ideal opportunity to reevaluate and overrule that wrongly decided opinion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN Chief Supreme Court Analyst, Joan Biskupic joins me now. So, OK, so first there is this closed-door meeting with the justices.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN CHIEF SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Yes.

HILL: What happens in a meeting like this?

BISKUPIC: Yes, they're all meeting in this room off the chambers of the chief Justice. They're going around the table and Erica, they have gotten scores and scores of petitions delivered to them, but only about a dozen are actually discussed. So this petition from Kim Davis will not be discussed unless somebody has asked it to be discussed. Otherwise it would've been outright denied. And if they want to grant it, they need four votes. It's unlikely. And you even use the word long shot, and I'll get to that in a second.

It's unlikely. But they have -- if they do that, they'll grant it and we'll get an order within the next, even this afternoon potentially, or next week. If they don't and they deny it, then somebody might want to try to write something and say, just, I know it's been denied, but here's my concern. And that happened actually in 2020 when Justice Clarence Thomas said, I don't think this is a good case to take, but I want to remind everyone why I thought Obergefell was so bad.

And now, you referred to the fact that this is a long shot and I'll tell you why. Even though there have been plenty of complaints about this 2015 case that made same-sex marriage constitutional, a constitutional right, people have relied on it so much. And I spoke to, earlier, a few weeks ago to Justice Anthony Kennedy who wrote this decision. And he said he thinks, because so many people are relying on it, I think we have some figures of about 600,000 people have gotten married since 2015, and they have children, they're raising families. And that's something that's very important to the court, the reliance interest.

And Samuel Alito, who dissented from that case, even has talked about that, as much as he doesn't like it, he doesn't think it's being threatened. And Amy Coney Barrett, who's recently been on a book tour, she also said that people have come to rely on this. So that's why it's a long shot. And we will probably know one way or another sometime next week.

HILL: All right. We'll be waiting to find out. You will tell us.

BISKUPIC: Yes.

HILL: We'll learn from you too. Thank you.

Well, from bread baked in an Icelandic volcano to Tokyo's renowned Japanese milk bread, be sure to join Tony Shalhoub for the finale of the CNN Original Series, Tony Shalhoub Breaking Bread. Here's a little preview of his stop in Iceland.

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TONY SHALHOUB, CNN HOST OF "TONY SHALHOUB BREAKING BREAD": I mean, Icelanders love bread in general. I mean, this is probably the most traditional one we bake in the volcano.

SHALHOUB (voice-over): You heard him right. This bread will be baked by the geothermal heat created in 1973 when the still act of Eldfell Volcano blew her stack.

SHALHOUB: So you put it in, walk away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk away, come back the next day.

SHALHOUB: Don't have to set a timer. Go back and get the bread.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then we hope that it's --

SHALHOUB: And we have --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Perfect.

SHALHOUB: Yes.

SHALHOUB (voice-over): The ingredients are simple, buttermilk, brown sugar, salt, baking powder and rye flour.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put it in like a milk carton and bake it in this.

SHALHOUB: Why do you want to do it in a milk carton?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just seals it really nicely and it creates like a steam inside.

SHALHOUB: Look at this. This is gorgeous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we're just going to wrap it up from the back (ph).

(LAUGH)

SHALHOUB: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, are you ready for some hike up -- up to the volcano?

SHALHOUB: Let's do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So what happens next? You're going to have to tune in. The final back-to-back episodes of "Tony Shalhoub Breaking Bread" are right here Sunday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific. And of course, you can also catch them the next day on our CNN app. A new hour of "CNN News Central" starts right now.

MATTINGLY: Frustrated travelers at major U.S. airports as the FAA orders hundreds of flights to be canceled over the government shutdown. This is just the beginning. The transportation secretary says, even when the government reopens, flights won't automatically go back to normal.

Plus, the Chinese military is showing off its newest aircraft carrier with technology capable of launching larger airplanes. But how does it compare to the U.S. Naval fleet? And it is going to get cold, really cold this weekend. An Arctic blast (inaudible) temperatures to record levels for much of the U.S.

We're following all these major developing stories and many more --