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Epstein Emails Released; Rep. Greg Landsman (D-OH) is Interviewed about the Epstein Emails; Travel Chaos Continues; Dan Rayfield is Interviewed about SNAP Payments. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired November 12, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Proportional, i.e., taking into account potential civilian deaths that are implicated.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Very quickly, Carrie, if the U.K. is already suspending its sharing, will other countries likely follow?

CORDERO: I think that's a real worry from the national security perspective, from a U.S. intelligence community perspective. The U.K. is one of a really small group of close intelligence sharing partners known as the five eyes. And so, I would be looking in the coming days and weeks to see whether Canada, for example, alters its position. And, obviously, New Zealand, Australia, the other member of the five eyes, are in a different region of the world. But I do wonder whether that intelligence sharing partnership is really under strain at this time.

BERMAN: Carrie Cordero, thank you very much.

We've got breaking news on the Jeffrey Epstein story. A brand new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The breaking news this hour, new information from the Jeffrey Epstein investigation. Minutes ago, Democrats on the House Oversight Committee releasing more files. Some of Epstein's private emails that they say specifically mention Donald Trump by name multiple times and in a context that has not been seen before. Among the emails released, one from Epstein to his longtime girlfriend and now convicted sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell. In it, Epstein talks of one of his alleged victims, whose name has been redacted, and spending hours with Donald Trump at Epstein's home.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins has this new reporting, breaking it this morning, and she's joining us right now.

Kaitlan, what more are you learning about this?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, and, Kate, I also think it's important to remember the background of all of this in which these emails are being released, because this is set to only probably inflame the debate that's already been happening here in Washington about releasing more documents that the Justice Department has on its hands when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein.

And these are new emails that are being released by the House Oversight Committee. They got their hands on these emails from Jeffrey Epstein's estate after the committee sent a bipartisan subpoena from Republicans and Democrats to Jeffrey Epstein's estate earlier this year. And in these emails, which we're told are some 23,000 documents that the committee has its hands on, there are three emails that mention Donald Trump specifically. And they all come from the last 15 years or so, which is after Jeffrey Epstein negotiated that sweetheart deal back in 2008, in Palm Beach, Florida.

And in them, Jeffrey Epstein himself, Kate, is mentioning Donald Trump. And let me just read you the first one. This is the oldest email of the three that have been released. It's from April 2, 2011. And in this email Jeffrey Epstein is writing this message to Ghislaine Maxwell, who, of course, is currently serving time for sex trafficking underage women, underage girls in Texas right now, in that new prison camp that she's been moved to.

But Jeffrey Epstein, according to this email that we reviewed, emails Ghislaine Maxwell and says, "I want you to realize that that dog that hasn't barked is Trump." Theres a name that's redacted, which the committee says is a victim of Jeffrey Epstein's. And that redacted "spent hours at my house with him. He has never once been mentioned. Police chief, et cetera. I'm 75 percent there."

Now, Kate, Ghislaine Maxwell responds to that email and says, "I have been thinking about that."

We don't get any more context to this email or what exactly Jeffrey Epstein is alleging there and what he is saying. But, obviously, he's speaking here in this email to someone who was one of his closest confidants, and it turns out his accomplice when it comes to sex trafficking underage women.

And Trump himself has denied any wrongdoing. He said he didn't know what Jeffrey Epstein was doing. That they had a falling out because Ghislaine Maxwell was poaching people with Jeffrey Epstein from his spa at Mar-a-Lago. And Trump himself is not a party to these emails, Kate. But, obviously, this is probably only going to raise questions further here in Washington as people have been fighting for the release of more documents from the Justice Department.

BOLDUAN: And Donald Trump also has not been accused of any wrongdoing in all of this.

COLLINS: Right.

BOLDUAN: In all of this.

You mentioned three emails. What are in the other two?

COLLINS: So, the other two are interesting as well because they are closer tied in time to when Trump was running for office, when his first run for president back in 2016, and then when he was actually in office, probably eight to nine months before Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide in prison. And in that email, I want to read to you, it is from 2019, and Epstein is writing to Michael Wolff. He is the author who wrote a book on the inner workings of the Trump White House back in 2018. We knew that Michael Wolff had a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein because he's talked about it and released recordings.

But in this email, Jeffrey Epstein seems to be referencing what Trump said at the time, which is that he had kicked Jeffrey Epstein out of his Mar-a-Lago club. The White House has described him as a creep. But Epstein wrote to Wolff at the time and said, "Trump said he asked me to resign."

[09:05:03]

Jeffrey Epstein writes, "never a member, ever. Of course, he knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop."

Now, there's no response to that email. Obviously, you can see some redactions there as well, Kate.

And, you know, this is actually similar to what we've heard from President Trump in recent months, which is that they were stealing women from the spa. That he asked Ghislaine Maxwell to stop. That's why they removed him from the Mar-a-Lago club. But it raises questions about that.

The other email, Kate, the third one that's been released by the House Oversight Committee, is also with Michael Wolff and Jeffrey Epstein. And Michael Wolff emails Jeffrey Epstein and basically says, here's a heads up that I think CNN's going to ask you about -- is going to ask Trump about you, his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. This is December 2015. It's actually around the time CNN was holding a Republican primary debate. I'll note, we looked at the transcript and there's no mention of Jeffrey Epstein. So, it's not clear where that was coming from.

But Jeffrey Epstein writes back to Michael Wolff and says, "if we were able to craft an answer for him, what do you think it should be?" And Michael Wolff responds, Kate, and says, "I think you should let him hang himself. If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable PR and political currency. You can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you, or, if it really looks like he could win, you could save him, generating a debt."

So, that is an email from Michael Wolff to Jeffrey Epstein as they're discussing what should Trump say in their view if he got asked about him at that debate. He didn't, obviously, as we noted from the transcript at the time that we saw.

But it all just speaks to the larger relationship here that had been taking place. The scrutiny on what Donald Trump knew about Jeffrey Epstein, something that he has long denied and, as you noted correctly, has not been accused of any wrongdoing himself here in this situation. But this comes as Adelita Grijalva is being sworn in today, Kate, as

you know, making her what is expected to be the 218th signature on that discharge petition, if any Republicans don't change their mind. And they are trying to call on Congress, on Capitol Hill, for the release of more documents here. And the question of whether or not this changes that remains to be seen.

BOLDUAN: You talked about Michael Wolff, the author, here. What are you hearing from him?

COLLINS: So, Michael Wolff responded. We reached out to him and described the emails to him this morning. And basically what he had said to me, Kate, and I'll quote him. He said, "I don't quite remember the context of the emails," he said, "but I was engaged then in an in- depth conversation with Epstein about his relationship with Trump, and this seems to be part of that conversation."

And so that's what we've heard from him. And, obviously, have also reached out to everyone involved in this story.

BOLDUAN: Kaitlan, thanks so much for jumping on, bringing us this reporting. Important today.

John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now is Congressman Greg Landsman, a Democrat from Ohio.

Congressman, we are just getting a look at these emails. You're one of many members of Congress who signed the discharge petition to have a vote to release all of the Epstein files. So, let me ask you, one of the emails suggests from Jeffrey Epstein, this is, that Donald Trump spent time at Epstein's house with someone that Democrats on the committee say was an alleged victim of Epstein. Let me just read that for you. "I want you to realize that the dog that hasn't barked is Trump. Blank redacted by the committee, spent hours at my house with him. Him being Trump. He has never once been mentioned."

So, what questions does that raise to you this morning, Congressman?

REP. GREG LANDSMAN (D-OH): It raises a lot of questions. What does it -- what does it mean? And, you know, how much time did he spend? He clearly was part of that world. They were part of one another's world -- worlds down there in Palm Springs. And I think it's probably true in New York. You know, these two had a relationship. It was a pretty significant relationship. And you're talking about a guy who, you know, was probably one of the worst sex traffickers and rapists of underage women ever in Jeffrey Epstein. And these two were very close. And so the question is, is what, you know, did Trump know and when did he know it? Sort of that line. And, ultimately, it's probably the cover up that makes people so mad. You know, in this case, the crime is probably pretty bad, although we don't know if he committed any crimes. Maybe he didn't. But he's clearly doing everything in his power to cover up. Not only did they try -- did they try to stop the release of the files, but, remember, Trump fired all the folks who were working on this, you know, the prosecutors, and removed them from the building. And there's a -- there's a real question as to what happened to those files.

BERMAN: And again, you have signed this discharge petition, which may get a majority later today when, you know, Congresswoman-elect Grijalva gets sworn in finally after many, many weeks.

Again, just to go back to this email. If Trump, as Epstein suggests, did spend hours at Epstein's house with an alleged Epstein victim, does this, in your mind, call into question anything that President Trump has said about this story and this investigation?

[09:10:20]

LANDSMAN: Yes. I mean the president has said a lot of things that have turned out not to be true about many, many things, including this particular case. And so, yes, this would raise questions as to whether or not he's being honest. You know, the fact of the matter is, is that he was very much part of this world. To what extent, we don't know. And there's a lot in these documents. And they should be released. There should be full transparency. And the fact that they're working so hard to keep this from the public.

And I do worry that when he went and fired days after finding out that he was in the Epstein files, he went and fired the prosecutors and removed them from the building. The Justice Department building. The question is, what happened to those files? You know, what happened to their offices? Did people go into those offices and remove those files? And, you know, the American people deserve answers on this.

This is really serious stuff. Very, very serious stuff. And I suspect most people, including people who support this president, are going to be very, very angry.

BERMAN: All right. So, today's a big day. Not only will a discharge petition get that final signature that it needs, but I think you're going to get a chance to vote today on ending the government shutdown. Just to be clear, how are you going to vote?

LANDSMAN: I'm not going to vote for it. It does not include the health care supports that 32,000 people in my district desperately need, 22 million Americans. This would have been resolved had one thing been true. Had Trump been willing to work with Democrats. He just -- it's the first time in my life that a president won't work with the other side. Demonize the other side. And won't work with us. And so, as a result, the people who sort of work for him, the speaker, the Senate majority leader, even though they're supposed to work for their respective institutions and their constituents, they take their orders from him. So, there were no negotiations. And as a result, 22 million Americans are about to get screwed. They're going to see their health care premiums skyrocket, 32,000 in my district, and I can't abandon those folks. I won't do it.

And, you know, ultimately, we need folks working together. That's the American way. That's the way we get things done. And, you know, we're going to be back in this situation in a couple of months. And hopefully the president realizes that it's absurd not to work with the other side. BERMAN: A couple of months, at the end of January perhaps, do you

think you would move to shut the government down again if you do not get those extensions on Obamacare subsidies?

LANDSMAN: Yeas. I mean my hope is that we avoid it, like we should have avoided this one. This -- there should never have been a shutdown. I've never voted for one. You know, I've always voted on a bipartisan bill. I've only been in Congress for three years, but they've always been bipartisan bills where the two sides worked together and we keep the government open.

I assumed that was going to happen again. I really did. And then all of a sudden they put this CR on the floor that doesn't address any of these issues that a lot of Republicans want addressed too, including the subsidies. And, you know, it went over to the Senate and we thought there would be negotiations. No one was talking to anybody. And here, 50 days later, we're in the same spot.

It'll pass. The government will reopen. But in 30, or, sorry, two or three months, the question is, will Trump work with Democrats to get a bipartisan deal? If you need Democratic votes, which they do on this budget, work with us. It's so simple. It is -- it is honestly the American way. And I think people hate, hate, hate what they did.

BERMAN: They did get eight Democratic votes in the Senate, though, didn't they?

LANDSMAN: Yes. You know, those were eight votes -- it's not a bipartisan bill. They -- you know, those folks would agree that they -- it's not a bipartisan budget. And again, this is the first time I've ever seen a president, a majority, not work with the other side when they need their votes. These are eight folks who just said, like, fine, enough's enough. We'll get what we can.

But it was stuff that they wanted. And some of it's good. But, ultimately, you know, the American people are struggling. You know, it's become so unaffordable. My farmers, my small businesses, they are traumatized. This is their language. They're traumatized by this. So, we submitted amendments to this budget that dealt with the tariffs, that dealt with food assistance, health care, because, ultimately, what they're going to pass today does not represent the priorities of the folks that I represent back home.

BERMAN: Congressman Greg Landsman, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, coming up, a strange twist in the missing case of nine-year-old Melodee Buzzard. Her mother facing a judge today after a man accused her of holding him against his will.

[09:15:01]

Also, a quantum leap and the computer field. Just how fast it will make complex computing and what it means for major medical advancements.

Plus, those happy little trees Bob Ross loved to paint are raising big money for public broadcasters hit hard by the government's funding cuts. How much and what it means to PBS, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: Right now, more flights are being cut today and the air travel nightmare continues for millions of passengers this morning. More than 800 flights have been canceled.

Joining us now, CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean.

Pete, what can travelers kind of expect next? We're seeing that they're going up to six percent now. And the House is prepared to vote today to possibly end the shutdown.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, the big thing here is that all eyes are on this House vote to see how this will actually plan out. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy underscores that controllers are feeling a bit more hopeful now with the end of this government shutdown in sight.

[09:20:06]

And the stats are actually bearing that out as well. The latest from the Federal Aviation Administration is that there has been only one facility across the country with short staffing today, air traffic control facility with short staffing. That number was about 40 on Monday. Went down to just five yesterday.

So, it also has flight cancellations on a downward trend as well. We saw 2,900 on Sunday. Today the number only about 800. And most of those are the preemptive cancellations put in place by airlines to fit in with this Trump administration mandate that they slash their schedules to alleviate stress on the air traffic control system. Remember, air traffic controllers continue working without pay during this government shutdown.

What is really interesting here is the context and the fact that President Trump posted on Truth Social just the other day that he would substantially dock the pay of air traffic controllers who continue to not show up during this government shutdown.

And I want you to listen now to Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy who says he is considering taking action against controllers who are consistently bad apples.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: My concern is for those air traffic controllers who, before they missed a paycheck and were in the shutdown, they decided on a -- on a continual basis not to show up for work. I'm concerned about those controllers. I'm concerned about their

dedication. I'm concerned about their patriotism. And so, we haven't made a decision, but we are going to look at those controllers who continually made the decision not to show up for work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Union chief Nick Daniels spoke to our Jake Tapper last night. He said that there was no coordinated effort of air traffic controllers continuing to call out sick. He says that they are hopeful now with this end in sight.

The good news here is that controllers will get 70 percent of their back pay, Transportation Secretary Duffy says, within 48 hours of the official end of this government shutdown. He says -- Nick Daniels says that is way different than what we saw back in the 2019 shutdown that took two and a half months for air traffic controllers to be made whole.

But there is also this warning from the NATCA chief, Nick Daniels. It says, this is not like flipping a switch. When the government shutdown ends, there will still be some hangover from the shutdown and it will take some time for air traffic control staffing to get back to full.

SIDNER: Yes, it only makes sense.

Pete Muntean, thank you so much for your reporting throughout all of this.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Millions of Americans left in even more limbo now after the Supreme Court's latest decision on SNAP food stamp benefits.

And former President Obama surprising dozens of veterans as they land in Washington, D.C.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: As we approach Veterans Day, I wanted to stop by and just say, thank you for your extraordinary service, to you and your family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:26:58]

SIDNER: New this morning, families receiving food assistance from the federal government are facing more uncertainty now. The Supreme Court extending an order allowing the Trump administration to withhold paying full SNAP benefits this month. Earlier this week, more than 20 states filed a motion for a temporary restraining order to ensure that the money used to pay SNAP benefits would not be forcibly returned. The motion, it was a response to the Trump administration's attempts to take back money that had been sent out last week. One of those states that filed the motion, Oregon.

Joining me now is Oregon Attorney General Dan Rayfield.

Thank you so much for coming back and talking to us about this.

What are you going to do now?

DAN RAYFIELD, OREGON ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, effectively, what's going on is we filed a temporary restraining order this past week to effectively force the federal government to make sure that those food benefits continue to flow. As you talked about, the Supreme Court has put an administrative stay effectively pausing and allowing the federal government to continue.

I think the interesting development that we've seen over the last week is that the government is, in theory, going to end its shutdown. And that could potentially be a reason why the Supreme Court extended its stay, administrative stay, so it's not on the merits, until Thursday, hoping that things are flowing.

Now, here in Oregon, it's a real simple thing. Our governor acted incredibly quickly to make sure that the food benefits were put onto these cards so Oregonians can actually access their benefits and make sure that they're able to get food on the table.

SIDNER: If this doesn't happen today, if the House doesn't pass this and the shutdown is not ended, what is that going to mean to those people who did get those funds? Because the Trump administration has talked about taking those funds back, the one funds already paid to hungry families.

RAYFIELD: Well, here's the thing. In Oregon -- and it's going to be state dependent. Here in Oregon we're going to lead with values first. And that's exactly what we've done. And we use different third-party vendors. And the way that this will work is we've already loaded the cards here in Oregon with those SNAP benefits.

Now, there may be some back and forth with the federal government if the shutdown doesn't end about wanting to try and recapture. We are going to stay the course because we believe that Americans, we believe that Oregonians, if they were faced with this exact same decision, they wouldn't be punitive, as the Trump administration is being. We all agree that everybody should have food on the table and nobody should go hungry in one of the wealthiest countries in the nation.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about another legal issue that Oregon has been embroiled in when it comes to the Trump administration. And this is over the Oregon National Guard being deployed. The Trump administration trying to deploy The Guard. The court stepping in. One of whom finally said that they are putting a kibosh on this. Where does that stand at this point in time?

RAYFIELD: Yes, I think it's like Americans, as Oregonians, as we're thinking about this issue, it really comes back to who we are as Americans, right?

[09:30:02]

No family should go hungry in one of the wealthiest countries. We, as Americans, don't believe that we should be using the military on the streets of our cities unless.