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House Leaders to Swear in Rep-Elect Grijalva Around 4 p.m. ET; Epstein Mentioned Trump Multiple Times in Private Emails; House Returns to Vote on Ending Government Shutdown; Top House Dems Vow to Fight Shutdown Bill Over Health Care Costs; Air Traffic Still Snarled Before House Vote to End Shutdown. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 12, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:32:13]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Republican House leaders are planning to swear in Arizona Congresswoman-Elect Adelita Grijalva around 4 p.m. Eastern today. The Democrat is expected to provide the final signature needed on a petition to force a vote on a measure the White House has fought against for months. It's a bill to compel the release of the Jeffrey Epstein files. Grijalva swearing in will come just hours after Democrats on the Oversight Committee released private emails from Epstein, where the convicted sex offender mentioned Donald Trump by name multiple times.

Arick Fudali is with us now. He's an attorney representing 11 Epstein Accusers. Arick, thanks for being with us again today. And we should be clear, we don't have the full context around the meaning of these emails. What's your reaction to them? How are you reading them? How are your clients reading them?

ARICK FUDALI, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING 11 EPSTEIN ACCUSERS: Well, just exactly what you said. We don't have the full context, which is why myself and all of the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and anyone -- any reasonable person in the United States has been advocating for the full release of the files. That's the point because without the full release, without being able to see everything, have the sort of weird out-of-context excerpts, one of them saying -- referring to Trump, of course, he knew about the girls, that could be really big or it could not, but we don't know. We need more context.

Of course, just another bizarre emails about he's not that barking dog. Like, what are they talking about? We need to know. The public deserves to know. The survivors deserve to know. We all -- the United States of America deserves to know what sort of involvement Donald Trump had with Jeffrey Epstein. Did it go further than what he's admitted or not? What do these emails explain, if anything? We need to see the full files. And anything short of that is just unsatisfactory.

KEILAR: Yeah, it is sort of confusing. And also, the redacted name in one of these, Republicans now say, is Virginia Giuffre, who so unfortunately has passed away. And that's someone who could answer questions about it. Jeffrey Epstein is also dead. So in one email, which you referred to there, it's from 2011 -- April 2011. And Epstein emails Ghislaine Maxwell, "I want you to realize that the dog that has barked is Trump -- redacted. That's who Republicans say is Virginia Giuffre -- spent hours at my house with him. He has never once been mentioned, police chief, et cetera. I'm 75 percent there.

Maxwell responding, "I have been thinking about that." Did any of your clients see Trump at Epstein's house? Or do they feel at liberty to say -- what can you say?

FUDALI: Yeah, I can say that none of my clients have reported seeing Trump physically at Jeffrey Epstein's house. Of course, though, what they have seen is pictures of Donald Trump with Jeffrey Epstein at Jeffrey Epstein's house. It's been well publicized that they were friends.

[13:35:00]

They were close it appears, they had some sort of relationship. That's not really up for debate. We've seen that ridiculous video of them dancing together and trying to be --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Pictures at Jeffrey Epstein's house or pictures of them together at Mar-a-Lago or other social events?

FUDALI: Pictures of them, I don't know where the context of the pictures are.

KEILAR: You mean the public pictures.

(CROSSTALK)

FUDALI: But at Jeffrey Epstein's house, he very prominently -- Yeah. He very --

KEILAR: I see.

FUDALI: -- prominently featured pictures of himself and Donald Trump with, along with many other powerful, important people. So, there's no question that there was some relationship between Epstein and Trump. What these emails reveal is that perhaps, we don't know, perhaps it's more than Donald Trump has led on. Perhaps it's more than has been publicized or perhaps not, but that's why we need the entire files. These give these sort of really sort of obscure sort of clips about the dog that doesn't bark. Of course, he knew about the girls. We really need to understand what that means and the American public deserves it.

KEILAR: So Maxwell, and this is another email you refer to here, well, she recently told the Attorney General -- Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche, who was also formally President Trump's personal lawyer, that she never recruited girls or victims from Mar-a- Lago. And yet, we see in this January 2019 email, Epstein writing to author Michael Wolf. Of course, he, meaning Trump, knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop. Trump himself has said, right, that Epstein stole young women from the spa.

Considering Maxwell, and we talked a little bit about this yesterday, Arick, considering Maxwell has moved to a significantly more comfortable prison after making that statement to Blanche, that's contradicted by both what the president has said and by what Epstein in this email is saying. What questions does that raise for you about why Maxwell is being afforded this special treatment?

FUDALI: Well, I've been banging my hands on the table for months about this, the type of treatment Ghislaine Maxwell has been getting. I think it's appalling. I think it's re-victimizing to the victims, to the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein. Remember, Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted of child sex trafficking. I feel like a broken record. I've had to say this so many times. Child sex trafficking, tricking 14- year-old girls to be sex trafficked and have sex with Jeffrey Epstein. That's what she did. That's what she was convicted of.

She deserves to be rotting behind bars. She does not deserve to be playing with puppies at some minimum security resort. And what I've been saying recently, she doesn't deserve to be questioned by Congress. She doesn't deserve another spotlight. She doesn't deserve to be the center of attention again. She didn't deserve the platform she was given by the DOJ to sort of deny things. She's been accused of perjury. She didn't testify in her own case. She, I mean, it's enough of Ghislaine Maxwell. Let's leave her behind bars, a real prison, and we shouldn't have to hear her name again. She should carry out the rest of her sentence in a maximum security prison where child sex traffickers belong, and the victims nor anyone should have to hear her name again.

KEILAR: Any of your clients going to be at this next press conference at the Capitol early next week that we heard Congressman Ro Khanna talking to MeidasTouch about yesterday?

FUDALI: Very likely. And that's sort in the early stages, but very likely, the last press conference and the two press conferences that took place a few months ago. The rally was a really empowering moment for some of my clients, really sort of seeing that collective empowerment of so many survivors of Jeffrey Epstein who had the same story. And being able to advocate a unified, advocating for one specific thing, the release of the files. I thought that was a really wonderful press conference, a wonderful rally, and I hope the next one is similar and perhaps has an even greater result, which would of course be the release of the full files.

KEILAR: Arick Fudali, thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate it.

FUDALI: Thank you.

KEILAR: Still ahead, will the House seal the deal? Congressional lawmakers set to vote soon on the Senate bill that would reopen the government.

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[13:43:26]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": As we noted a moment ago, we're following Breaking News as the White House is now responding to the release of emails between Jeffrey Epstein, the convicted sex offender, and other associates released today by Democrats on the House Oversight Committee. Here is Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt as of moments ago.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: These emails prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that President Trump did nothing wrong. And what President Trump has always said is that he was from Palm Beach and so was Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein was a member at Mar-a-Lago until President Trump kicked him out because Jeffrey Epstein was a pedophile and he was a creep.

And this email you refer to with the name of a victim that was unredacted now and has since been reported on in this room, so I will go ahead and say it, Virginia Giuffre. And it was CBS' own reporting, Weijia that recently wrote that Ms. Giuffre maintained, and God rest her soul, that she maintained that there was nothing inappropriate she ever witnessed, that President Trump was always extremely professional and friendly to her.

And so, I think it's a question worth asking the Democrat Party, and you should all go ask them after this briefing, why they chose to redact that name of a victim who has already publicly made statements about her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and is unfortunately no longer with us. Mary (ph)?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Two questions on this. In the interest of transparency, why not just go ahead and release the full files on Epstein, get this all over with?

LEAVITT: We have -- this administration has done more with respect to transparency when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein than any administration ever.

[13:45:00]

In fact, this administration, the Department of Justice has turned over tens of thousands of documents to the American people. We are cooperating and showing support for the House Oversight Committee. That's part of the reason you are seeing these documents that were released today because of the House Oversight Committee's and Republicans' efforts to get these out to the public.

This administration also moved -- the Department of Justice also moved to unseal grand jury testimony, which we know unfortunately a judge declined those requests. So this administration has done more than any and it just shows how this is truly a manufactured hoax by the Democrat Party for -- now, they're talking about it all of a sudden because President Trump is in the Oval Office. But when Joe Biden was sitting in there, the Democrats never brought this up. This wasn't an issue that they cared about because they actually don't care about the victims in these cases. They care about trying to score political points against President Trump as we, of course, have seen with this government shutdown and this entire thing. Again, it's not a coincidence to the American people at home. There are no coincidences in Washington, D.C. and it is not a coincidence that the Democrats leaked these emails to the fake news this morning, ahead of Republicans reopening the government. This is another distraction campaign by the Democrat and the liberal media. And it's why I'm being asked questions about Epstein instead of the government reopening because of Republicans and President Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But given your interest in transparency, Karoline, why are White House officials then meeting with Representative Boebert in an effort to try and get her to not sign this petition, calling for the release of the files?

LEAVITT: Doesn't it show transparency that members of the Trump administration are willing to brief members of Congress whenever they please? Doesn't that show our level of transparency? Doesn't that show the level of transparency when we are willing to sit down with members of Congress and address their concerns? That is -- that's a defining factor of transparency. Having discussions -- having discussions with members of Congress about various issues. And I'm not going to detail conversations that took place in the Situation Room, in the Press Briefing Room. Reagan (ph)?

SANCHEZ: -- is Republican Congressman, Jeff Hurd of Colorado's third district. We'll, of course, continue monitoring this White House briefing for more information. Congressman, full transparency for our viewers, we were set to discuss the potential reopening of the federal government. And I have questions for you on that, I promise. But I do want to get to this Breaking News, specifically on this email that Karoline Leavitt was asked about, between Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

To be clear for you and our viewers, these are emails that largely predate Trump's presidency. He neither sent nor received any of them, and he's not being accused of any criminal wrongdoing in connection with Epstein or Maxwell. But I wonder when you read this email and you read the allegation from Epstein, saying that Trump spent many hours at my house with a redacted name, which Republicans have now indicated is Epstein survivor Virginia Giuffre, who had never accused President Trump of any wrongdoing, we should note. What is your reaction to hearing this allegation that Trump spent hours at Jeffrey Epstein's house with a person who at the time was underage?

REP. JEFF HURD, (R-CO): Well, I do think Karoline Leavitt was right. This is a distraction to focus us away from the reopening of government, which should be happening soon. Look, it underlines the fact that we have an investigation process that's ongoing. The House Oversight Investigation Committee has had 43,000 documents that it's released. We already have a process that's in place for investigating this. I am in favor of maximum disclosure. And there's a process in place that would do that, that we're working through the House of Representatives right now.

SANCHEZ: And this, as Leavitt put it, is part of what's being released. I do wonder when you hear that allegation from Epstein, what questions you might have for President Trump.

HURD: Well, listen, I think we need to look at this as a selective leak by the Democrats. I mean, if you're looking to really give the truth of this matter, a selective leak to the media on the day that we're reopening the government does not suggest that you're genuinely interested in getting into the bottom of things. It suggests politics over facts and truth.

So, in my view, the important thing that we need to be focused on is the reopening of the government. That's what is happening. I flew into Washington, D.C. yesterday. We're going to be voting, hopefully this afternoon, to get the government back open after 42 days of a needless shutdown down. It's time to get back to the legislative work that our voters sent here to do.

SANCHEZ: And I do want to ask you about reopening of the government and the potential extension of ACA subsidies. But there was an email exchange between Epstein and author Michael Wolff that touched on politics. And this was back in 2015, on the day of a CNN Republican debate back when Trump was a candidate. The author tells Epstein that he believes that CNN at that debate is going to ask Trump about his relationship with Epstein, who at the time had already been convicted of lewd acts with a minor.

Epstein replies, "If we were able to craft an answer for him, what do you think it should be?"Wolff then answers, "I think you should let him hang himself." If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you valuable PR and political currency. You can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you. Or if it really looks like he could win, you could save him, generating a debt.

[13:50:00]

To be clear, CNN never asked Donald Trump about Epstein at that debate, but does it make you wonder whether Jeffrey Epstein had some information on Donald Trump that could harm him politically?

HURD: Look, it's not a good idea to comment on an email that I've never seen. That's out of context. This is why we have the House Oversight investigation process, is to get to this. We're already working through this process of disclosing documents, getting to the bottom of it, while also protecting victims, which I think is an important piece of this. No matter what we do in Congress, we need to get to the truth. We need to have maximum disclosure, but we need to protect innocent victims.

SANCHEZ: As part of getting to the truth, what questions would you want answered based on what you're hearing?

HURD: Well listen, let's see what the House Investigation Committee goes through. They've already released 43,000 documents. I'm expecting that we'll see some more select leaks and disclosures to the media, particularly when we're about ready to open up the government. I don't suggest a good -- I don't think suggests good faith on the part of the Democrats. We'll have to see. Let's let this process go through. I have faith that the Oversight Committee will do its job and get to the bottom of it and make sure that we get to the truth.

SANCHEZ: One more question on this and then we can move on. Your House colleague, Democrat Jamie Raskin, says that he learned from a whistleblower that Ghislaine Maxwell is receiving special treatment at this facility that she was moved to. Also, she's apparently in the process of filing a commutation application. If he's asked, should President Trump consider commuting Maxwell's sentence?

HURD: Yeah, listen, I don't know the facts of what Congressman Raskin is saying, if they're true or not, not true at all. But listen, we -- no one should be above the law. We should treat everyone exactly the same, whether it's a high-profile issue or an issue that none of us hear about, that's something that I think we believe as Republicans, that I certainly believe as a Republican, no one should be above the law, no one should get special treatment.

SANCHEZ: On the shutdown, it appears as you noted, that it is likely to end today. Finally, the longest government shutdown in U.S. history, it ends without an extension to these ACA subsidies that Democrats have argued need to be extended. Earlier this month, you and some colleagues, a bipartisan group of colleagues, outlined a proposal to extend and alter some of these tax credits.

A large number of Republicans that I have spoken to object outright. They suggest that these are a vestige of the pandemic, that we're leveraging the national debt and money that should be held for our grandchildren in order to pay for a health care system that they see as non-functioning. What is your message to them? Why do you hope to convince them to extend these subsidies?

HURD: Well, my message to them is, regardless of whatever district you're in, how red it is, how blue it is, health care and the cost of health care is a top concern for the people that we represent. Extending these enhanced premium tax credits for a short period of time -- look, it's not ideal. I'm not in favor of permanent subsidies either. I don't think this is good. But in the short term, we need to address the immediate need, which is lowering health care costs for people in the individual market. These are families, these are small business owners. Let's get some time to extend those tax credits. And in the meantime, let this Congress work on addressing the underlying drivers that are pushing up those health care costs to begin with.

SANCHEZ: One estimate in Colorado had the average premium doubling and it projects that some 75,000 residents will be priced out of their coverage. Do you think the Republicans that oppose extending these subsidies don't recognize that it could be an enormous liability going into next year's midterms?

HURD: Well, certainly, the politics of it are one issue, but doing what's right is important for me and my district is in southern Western Colorado, half of the state is very rural. The cost of healthcare is a top issue. We need to address the short-term issue, which is the cost of premiums. That's what the enhanced premium tax credit would do. But in the long term, we need to get back to what are those things that are pushing up the Affordable Care Act costs. The Affordable Care Act did expand coverage, but it did a terrible job of keeping health care affordable. We need as Republicans, as Democrats and the Senate and the House to work together on lowering those health care costs for our constituents.

SANCHEZ: Getting to another major issue that has been exposed, exacerbated by the shutdown, that is aviation. Given your work on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee and the Subcommittee on Aviation, I wanted to ask you, when do you think that air traffic control, these issues are going to get fixed? Because we've heard from experts that say that the government may reopen, but some of these issues are going to linger.

HURD: That's a great point. Listen, as soon as possible is what I hope, but I would imagine that we'll have some residual lags and delays in the system as we get things back up online as our air traffic controllers get back. It's an issue that affects not only air traffic controllers, but also SNAP beneficiaries and others. This is, again, a totally avoidable situation. We shouldn't have a government shutdown.

I voted along with my fellow Republican colleagues to keep the government open, to keep it funded. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if Senate Democrats had done their job and simply continued spending. But we are where we are. We're going to get the system up as quick as we can, so that people can get home to their families, travel for Thanksgiving, and get back to their regular life.

SANCHEZ: We are very, very short on time. But I did want to sneak in a question about air traffic controllers. Do you support the idea that those who've called in sick during the shutdown should be docked pay and those who've worked through all of it should get the $10,000 bonus that the president is talking about?

HURD: Look, I think we should look it a case by case basis. Certainly, taking one sort of blanket approach to everything is not the right thing.

[13:55:00]

I think we should look at it in an individual basis, but certainly those who went above and beyond during the shutdown should be recognized in some way.

SANCHEZ: Congressman Jeff Hurd of Colorado, thank you so much for joining us.

HURD: Happy to join you, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Appreciate it. Still to come, a new hour of "CNN News Central." Stay with us.

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SANCHEZ: Private emails written by Jeffrey Epstein have been released and President Trump is referenced multiple times. We'll talk about what the White House is saying. And the trial begins for the former aide to Governors Kathy Hochul and Andrew Cuomo, who's been accused of acting as an unregistered Chinese agent. --