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Housing Experts Blast Trump Plan for 50-Year Mortgages; October Jobs Report Will Be Released, but Incomplete; Storm to Bring Heavy Rain, Possible Mudslide to California; Stocks Slip, Led by Tech, on Lower Odds of Fed Rate Cuts. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired November 13, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Mortgage rates rose for the second straight week from their lowest levels of the year. The 30-year fixed mortgage averaged 6.24 percent according to Freddie Mac. The Trump administration is floating ideas to deal with the high cost of home buying and that includes a 50-year mortgage and a portable mortgage.

The idea is that when homeowners move, they could bring their mortgage rate with them to the new property. Let's turn now to Stephen Moore, who was economic advisor to President Trump during his first term. All right, Stephen, love that idea of taking a mortgage with you.

Let's talk first, though, about these 50-year mortgages. Do you think that is a good idea for the average American?

[15:35:00]

STEPHEN MOORE, FORMER TRUMP ECONOMIC ADVISER: Well, Brianna, let me just start by saying that, you know, you mentioned the fact, I think you said the mortgage rate is now 6.2 percent. And just to give young people a perspective, when I graduated from college, the mortgage rate was 16 percent.

So we've lived through times when housing was very, very unaffordable in this country. But look, the 50-year mortgage idea, I'm kind of ambivalent about. I mean, there's pluses and minuses about this, right, Brianna?

I mean, the pluses are that you're going to pay a monthly mortgage rate that's going to be lower in terms of how much you pay in dollars. The problem is how many people live in a house for 50 years. So you're going to stretch out those payments for a long period of time.

So it's, you know, I could go either way on that, I think. But offering people that alternative, why not?

KEILAR: What about the fact that the amount of interest a borrower would pay over 50 years could be double what they would pay in a 30- year?

MOORE: Well, that's right, because it's called the time value of money. If you're borrowing over 50 years, you're going to be paying interest for a long, long time. And that's -- as long as people go into this with their eyes open and they realize that, you know, you're going to have to string out the -- and by the way, you're not building up equity as quickly in your home if you take out a 50-year mortgage.

That means, you know, even after 10 years, you don't have a lot of equity in the home. You know, the interesting thing about the state -- debate, Brianna, about housing prices is people forget that on the one hand, if you're a young person, you want to buy a house, a high home value is a bad thing because you have to pay a lot to get it.

But for someone like me, I'm 65 years old. I have a lot of equity in my home. In fact, it's one of my principal assets. You know, a high home price is a good thing for me because that means I have more equity in it.

So it's a there again, it's a double edged sword for people who have homes. They -- their value has increased. People trying to buy a home. They can't afford it.

I have three sons that are all between the ages of 24 and 35, but none of them -- and they all have good jobs. They can't afford to buy a house right now.

KEILAR: Yes, it does -- I will say it does seem that it's harder to purchase a home for how expensive they are compared to what it was in the 80s, even though interest rates -- I mean --

MOORE: Yes.

KEILAR: -- your eyes will pop out of your head when you think about the 80s.

OK, let's talk about the the portability. You what are your concerns with that?

MOORE: I kind of like that idea. I think it gives people a lot more flexibility in terms of, you know, if you if you have a starter house, you want to move into a new one. I mean, the whole idea is you kind of move up and you start maybe with the house that's maybe a one or two bedroom. And then you have some kids and you want four bedrooms. And so having portability, I think, makes a lot of sense.

Look, I think one of the biggest problems with the housing market over the last 20 years is we just haven't built a lot of new homes in this country. And part of that is because you have to look at a lot of local areas that have very strong restrictions on building -- building multifamily homes like we used to. So let's look at some of the zoning restrictions in a lot of cities as one of the causes of the very high, you know, price of homes, because if you restrict the supply, the price is going to go up.

KEILAR: As we talk about all of this, it's really around this in these considerations or around this broader national conversation about affordability. How real is the pain that Americans report that they're feeling? Because the president is saying that polls show -- showing Americans feeling economic pain are fake. MOORE: Well, look, everybody's angry when you go to the grocery store now and you see what beef costs or eggs cost or coffee costs. There's no question about it. You know, people people are angry. They're frustrated.

Look, I'll say this. It sounds like a partisan thing to say. But most of that price increase, the vast majority of it was under Biden. And right now we're running at about three percent inflation. That's not where we want to be.

We want to get inflation down to the target, about two percent. But it kind of depends on what you're buying, too. I mean, you know, it's interesting.

We used to gauge the gas price as the, you know, as the, you know, great signal for inflation. But gas prices are way down. But beef and eggs and things like that are very expensive.

But people's incomes are going up. The one piece of good news is that so far over the first seven months or so of Trump's presidency for which we have data, wages are going up faster than prices. And so that means, if anything, affordability has risen a little bit.

But gosh, I mean, people when I go to the grocery store, people are yelling at me how much things cost, you know, because it's just it's I mean, beef. Have you bought a steak lately?

KEILAR: Yes, no, it's crazy. I mean, it is right. It's pretty wild how expensive it is if you're looking at your items each week.

[15:40:00]

I want to ask you about this economic data, because NEC director Kevin Hassett told Fox today that because of the shutdown, the monthly employment report for October is going to be incomplete. The Household Survey, which is one of two for the report, wasn't conducted last month. I mean, it just wasn't done.

It was supposed to happen the week of October 19th. What's the danger, the economic danger of not having that data combined with the current lack of a published September report?

MOORE: Well, it's like, you know, driving a car and you can't see through the windshield, you know. I mean, we haven't had data now for what, six, seven weeks. And so, you know, we we have a -- we have a sense of where that data is headed.

We know that the job market is soft. We just don't know how soft it is. Have have we lost jobs?

Have we gained jobs? Are wages rising? Are they falling?

You know, we have some predictions, but we just don't know for sure. And that's the problem. I mean, the the jobs report is the single most important indicator we have every month of how the economy is doing.

And right now, we just don't know what that number is.

KEILAR: Yes, it's to not have it is kind of just stunning. Stephen, it's great to speak with you. Thank you so much for being with us, Stephen Moore.

MOORE: Thank you.

KEILAR: And still ahead, California bracing for drenching storms, potential flooding and even mudslides. We'll have details next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Happening now, a major storm is threatening to bring several days of heavy rain to Southern California. That system is raising concerns about mudslides and triggering evacuation warnings for communities burned by the recent wildfires.

CNN meteorologist Allison Chinchar is tracking threat -- Allison.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: More than 10 million people are under the threat for flooding across portions of central and southern California and notice it's going to be a multi day event. Even going through the weekend, we still have the potential for very heavy rainfall, especially across portions of southern California, including Los Angeles and San Diego.

Now, for much of the day so far, a lot of the heavy rain really has been focused across northern and central California. But that all changes as we head through the evening hours tonight, especially the overnight time frame. That's when we start to see a large chunk of that heavy rain bands begin to move into places like Santa Maria, Los Angeles and eventually down into San Diego.

It is going to be a very soggy Friday morning commute for many across southern California as the next round of rain begins to slide back in. Again, this is going to be a multi day event. So you're actually talking pretty significant rain and snowfall totals.

Notice the widespread color of that yellow, indicating at least two to four inches of rain total over the next several days.

And look at all this. Yes, all of that snow, except the difference here is we're going to be measuring it in two to four feet rather than just two to four inches. And obviously, some of those highest elevations could be looking at three, four or five, even as much as six feet of snow, especially when you get to some of those extreme peaks.

That's why you have a lot of these winter weather alerts that extend all the way through Friday morning, just in anticipation of how much water is expected to come down across these areas. And then in the valleys, the big concern is going to be the rainfall triggering mudslides and flash flooding. KEILAR: All right, Allison Chinchar, thank you for that. And now to some of the other headlines that we're watching this hour.

Democratic Senator John Fetterman is in the hospital after falling near his Pennsylvania home. His office says he was on a morning walk when he experienced a heart issue that left him lightheaded and he fell. Fetterman's staff says the senator has minor injuries on his face but is doing well.

And sources tell CNN that prominent lawyer and Trump critic George Conway is actively considering jumping into the New York congressional race. Conway was a longtime fixture in conservative legal circles and was previously married to former Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway. He's since become an independent but may enter the Democratic primary for New York's 12th District. And if he does, he'll be up against Kennedy heir Jack Schlossberg.

This is your chance to buy a $10 million, 18 karat solid gold toilet. I know you've been wanting it for so long. Well, bidding begins next week on the work of art infamously named America, the fully flushable toilet on display in New York City.

But spectators may only look at it for now. And the first edition by the artist was stolen. Remember that back in 2019? Authorities say it was likely melted down and sold. The New York Times says the likely seller is the Met's billionaire owner, Steve Cohen.

So we're following some breaking news on Wall Street. All three of the major stock market indices sinking sharply. The Dow is down more than 700 points at this point in time.

We have CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich tracking this for us. OK, why? Why are stocks dropping?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, some nervousness on Wall Street right now for several reasons, not just one reason. The first is if you look at where investors are placing the odds of a rate cut in December, it has dropped dramatically. If we could show these numbers, you see that today investors believe there's just a 52 percent chance of a rate cut down from 63 percent a day ago.

But look at where it was just a month ago -- 97 percent.

[15:50:00]

So investors getting nervous that a rate cut is not fully baked in for December when the Federal Reserve meets. Also, the government shutdown ending. Yay. However, Wall Street is now coming to terms with reality that we're going to start getting some economic data.

They do not know what that data is going to look like. They do not know when it's coming. And that is making investors nervous and nervous about what that data will say and what it will indicate for the Federal Reserve. And that rate cut coming in December. That is why you see the Dow down almost 800 points. You also have a little bit of an AI over evaluation happening right

now on Wall Street. And that's why you see the Nasdaq down on pace for its worst day in a month. Essentially, essentially, investors are looking at some of these big tech stocks that really have invested in artificial intelligence and are asking themselves, have we over evaluated their worth? And so you're seeing some sell off of these big tech stocks.

And that's why you're seeing the Nasdaq being dragged down, Brianna. This is not all because of one True Social post or a piece of economic data. This is just a lot of overall nervousness on Wall Street right now as investors start to come to grips with some of these changes and some of these unknowns that they've been waiting for --Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you so much for watching that for us.

And ahead, Russia's first humanoid robot powered by artificial intelligence makes its debut. And its performance was -- well, you look at that, how did that go? We'll talk about it. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Earlier in the show, we had an interview regarding the recent release of the Jeffrey Epstein e-mails, and one of our guests mentioned a defamation case that Virginia Giuffre was involved with against Alan Dershowitz. And we should clarify that before her death, she dropped the allegations against Dershowitz, saying she may have made a mistake in identifying him.

The Trump administration is restricting the number of refugees to the U.S., with a notable exception when it comes to white South Africans. The White House has made accusations of persecution against this group.

DEAN: In a new episode of "THE WHOLE STORY", CNN senior correspondent Donie O'Sullivan traveled there to investigate the claims and sat down with the father of Elon Musk in a wide ranging interview about politics and race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: America, in the next 20 years, will become, for the first time in its history, a minority white country.

ERROL MUSK, ELON MUSK'S FATHER: Well, that will be a very, very bad thing to happen. You want to see the U.S. go down? Why?

Oh, you don't like cars and electric cars, and you don't like technology? Or what is it? Do you want to go back to the jungle or?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And Donie is with us now. Donie, that was a pretty stunning response to your question. Is it more insightful to where Elon Musk comes from? South Africa itself or both?

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): Yes, I mean, it's pretty clarifying, Brianna, just in terms of, I think, the attitude that is behind a lot of this sort of myth of a white genocide happening in South Africa. And really, you know, why it has taken hold here in the U.S. I mean, you heard there in my question, what's motivating, you know, a lot of what we're hearing from both the White House, but also in sort of the wider MAGA-verse is the changing demographics in this country.

And in the next 20 years, the U.S. is due to become a minority white country for the first time in its history, you know, as part of immigration, as part of sort of natural changes in U.S. demographics. But clearly, this is freaking out a lot of people. And what South Africa is being used to do is people are trying to push it as an idea of, well, look at South Africa. This is what happens when a country where whites lose control.

And that's why they've been pushing this idea of a white genocide or white persecution in South Africa. Of course, South Africa only 30 years ago ended apartheid where a white minority brutally ruled over the black majority in the country. What you'll see on our show on Sunday night as we try to bring some facts to all of this, the facts are that white people in South Africa are still doing much better than black people.

White people make up seven percent of the population, but they own three quarters of the land. There is a lot of crime is a major, major problem in South Africa. Many people have to live behind gated communities.

There's a massive private security industry. But that is not something that is affecting white people exclusively or from what we found in a way that more so than than blacks.

DEAN: All right. Donie O'Sullivan, thank you so much for your reporting. Don't forget to tune in to that new episode of "THE WHOLE STORY, MISINFORMATION, WHITE GENOCIDE." It airs Sunday at eight Eastern Pacific on CNN. And then the next day on our CNN app.

For everyone who's been worried about how AI could soon take over everything. We offer the new Russian AI powered humanoid robot at its debut walkout at a tech event in Moscow this weekend -- there were this week, rather. The robot named Idol by its designers took several steps on stage, stopped, lifted its right arm to wave to the audience. And when it did well, didn't go so well.

KEILAR: No, I think I've seen this guy outside a bar. Yes, that guy right there.

DEAN: Yes, maybe that's who they are --

KEILAR: Oh no, poor guy.

DEAN: Yes, they're a downy guy. Yup.

KEILAR: The CEO of the company that developed the robot is quoted by Russian media, saying he hope this mistake will turn into an experience.

Well, we had one.

DEAN: We sure did.

KEILAR: And you're about to have another one in "THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

END