Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Trump Says Venezuela Would Like to Talk Amid Rising Tensions; Johnson Signals Epstein Bill Support If Senate Promises Changes; Trump Defends Tucker Carlson After Interview with White Nationalist. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired November 17, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Just moments ago, President Trump lashed out at Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro as he considers possible land strikes on that country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, he's done tremendous damage to our country, primarily because of drugs, but really because we have that problem with other countries too. But more than any other country, the release of prisoners into our country has been a disaster. He's emptied his jails -- others have done that also.

So he has not been good to the United States. So we'll see what happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The president's comments happening as the U.S. adds more firepower to its military presence in the Caribbean. America's biggest and most lethal aircraft carrier, the USS Gerald Ford, has now joined other warships in the region. Despite this buildup of about 15,000 military personnel, Trump still says he is open to direct negotiations with Venezuela, as the administration has noted that Maduro's days are numbered.

I'm joined now by Juan Gonzalez, a former National Security Council senior director for the Western Hemisphere. He's also a resident fellow at Georgetown University's Americas Institute. Juan, thank you so much for being with us.

Just curious to get your reaction to what we just heard there from President Trump, saying that he's open to everything from a direct dialogue with Maduro to U.S. boots on the ground.

JUAN GONZALEZ, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL SENIOR DIRECTOR FOR WESTERN HEMISPHERE: Well, I mean, any sort of channel for dialogue is positive, because right now the force posture has gone from a symbolic presence to, as you mentioned, the carrier strike group having a credible threat posture just off of Venezuela's maritime. That I think opens the door for accidents to happen. Any sort of mistake that would lead to escalation, I think, would be very dangerous in the absence of dialogue.

The key thing here is, what are they going to talk about? Joe Biden has the saying that you never back a man into a corner where his only way out is over you. So, what are the terms that they're going to actually offer the Venezuelans?

That's going to be key.

SANCHEZ: To that point, Trump was just asked if there was anything Maduro could say or offer that would allow him to stay in power, that would have Trump essentially saying, we're OK, there's some kind of agreement or dialogue. Trump described that as a tricky question. He didn't really answer it.

Is there something Maduro can offer?

GONZALEZ: Well, what I found interesting was, was there any sort of scenario that would allow Maduro to stay? It was one of the questions. And I think, right, particularly if you see the original engagement by Rick Grenell left out really the democracy question and focused on access of U.S. companies to the resource inside of Venezuela. Not only do they have the largest reservoir of petroleum, they have the largest reserves of gold in all of Latin America, and they have rare earth minerals, but also they have an existing migration agreement. Would they expand on that?

Unclear whether the president would actually want some sort of democratic concession, but there are a lot of things that Venezuela can do unilaterally now. Release political prisoners, allow press into the country, have a dialogue with the opposition to talk about a transition since the victor of the election last year was Edmundo Gonzalez.

SANCHEZ: I wonder how the U.S. designating Cartel de los Soles, which the U.S. alleges is led by Maduro as a terrorist organization, perhaps complicates that. What do you make of the allegation?

GONZALEZ: Well, it certainly ups the ante, and I think it gives the administration a political and legal justification to continue the strikes on water, but then potentially to go on land. Look, Cartel de los Soles -- and I'm not the only one that says this -- you have Inside Crime and other groups that are saying that Cartel de los Soles does not have the hierarchy of a traditional cartel, right, that is vertically integrated. It really is used as a term to identify officials in the military and the government that are involved in the transshipment of cocaine.

It is not the largest cartel. Only 5 percent of cocaine that comes to the United States actually comes through Venezuela. Some -- a lot goes to Europe, but in terms of the United States, Cartel de los Soles is a minor player.

SANCHEZ: What happens if the U.S. launches ground strikes in Venezuela?

GONZALEZ: Well, I mean, it crosses an important Rubicon. Right now, the unilateral strikes against, right now there have been at least five, roughly 80 casualties. They do not meet the U.N. charter or the international humanitarian law threshold for the use of force. Just designating a gang as a foreign terrorist organization is not a license for the use of lethal force. So now the next step, actually going on to land, puts us in a situation where we're actually the aggressor against the country, and of course this is a dictator, Maduro oppresses his population, but it takes us into the same territory as Russia invading Ukraine.

SANCHEZ: Wow. Juan Gonzalez, thank you so much for the perspective.

GONZALEZ: Thanks for having me.

SANCHEZ: Still to come, President Trump changing his tune on the release of the Jeffrey Epstein files. We'll go live to Capitol Hill for reaction to his decision. Also what he just said about wanting folks not to talk about it very much, alleging that it is all a Democratic hoax.

We'll discuss in just moments.

[15:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Now back to our breaking news this hour. President Trump says he would sign the release of the Jeffrey Epstein case files if it passes both the House and Senate.

The House voting on the discharge petition tomorrow. CNN's Manu Raju is on the Hill for us. Manu, how are lawmakers there reacting?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is a major reversal for President Trump who has tried to kill this bill, but he was facing the prospect of getting -- seeing scores of Republicans in the House voting for this bill. And tomorrow, with the result of Donald Trump's report, we can expect a massive vote in the United States House.

[15:40:00]

I just caught up with the speaker himself, Mike Johnson, who also had been trying to deny this bill a vote for some time. He told me that, quote, I was never trying to kill this bill. He said he would support it with some changes to its language. And I asked him about whether he's had any conversations with Trump about it as well.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: We talked to President. Did you advise his to get behind it?

REP: MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): HOUSE SPEAKER: He and I talked about it quite a bit, but I'm not going to get into the content of what he said. But he -- his statements speak for themselves, and he has nothing -- he's never had anything to hide. He and I have this concern that we wanted to ensure that victims of these heinous crimes are completely protected from disclosure, those who don't want their names to be out there. And I'm not sure the discharge does that, and that's part of the problem.

RAJU: The President has called Marjorie Taylor Greene a traitor. She says it's impacting her security and safety. Would you advise the President to stop calling her a traitor?

JOHNSON: I don't -- look, it's not surprising that the President was frustrated at some of the criticisms that Marjorie had been out stating to the media, and of course she criticizes me all the time. But look, I work on unity in the party, and my encouragement of everybody is to get together. We've got to do that in order to for the people ...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU (on camera): And that last comment referring to the back and forth all weekend long with the President of the United States calling his former ally and longtime staunch defender Marjorie Taylor Greene a traitor repeatedly. And Greene herself saying it has to deal with her support for the release of the Epstein files and saying that that kind of language has put hers and her family's safety at risk.

The Speaker there declining to criticize the President when I asked him directly if he'd advise the President to hold off on that. He did indicate, though, that he could potentially support this bill if there is an agreement with the Senate to change some of the language.

And he says to protect the victim's identity better than the bill already is doing. The supporters of that measure say it does protect the victims. But the outcome of tomorrow's vote is no, there's no doubt.

We expect a major vote in support of this plan, likely north of 300, potentially north of 400 people voting for it. We will see. And then it will be up to the Senate Republicans to decide whether to schedule this vote.

The Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, has not yet indicated how he would proceed. He said he would weigh -- we're told that he's weighing his options.

We'll wait to -- wait to see the outcome of the House vote before announcing his next steps -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Mani Raju, live for us on the Hill. Thank you.

President Trump is defending Tucker Carlson after the former Fox host interviewed white nationalist and Holocaust denier Nick Fuentes.

We'll have that next.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: As the president's fight with Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene spills into public view, another fight is dividing many in the president's MAGA base. This one involves Tucker Carlson and his friendly interview with Nick Fuentes, a white nationalist and Holocaust denier. Politicians on both sides of the aisle have criticized Fuentes and Carlson, saying that this kind of dialogue has no place in civil society.

President Trump, though, last night shared a different view.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We've had some great interviews with Tucker Carlson, but you can't tell him who to interview. I mean, if he wants to interview Nick Fuentes, I don't know much about him. But if he wants to do it, get the word out.

Let him -- you know, people have to decide. Ultimately, people have to decide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss this and more with Ryan Holiday. He's the author of the new book "Wisdom Takes Work," his latest on stoic philosophy. Ryan, thank you so much, as always, for joining us.

Given that we've talked about the dangers of suppressing certain ideas before, I wonder what your take is on this. If the president has a point that in a free society you can't restrict who can be interviewed or the ideas that we find heinous. Do you think, though, that platforming and normalizing hatred and bigotry crosses the line in this regard?

RYAN HOLIDAY, AUTHOR, WISDOM TAKES WORK: Well, there's a line in the legal community that that everyone's entitled to a lawyer, but that doesn't have to be you. So in the abstract, sure, free speech is great. We should hear divergent opinions.

And then you, as the person who has a podcast, who has a platform, who has influence, you know, you should sit down and go, hey, do I want a platform? Do I want to sit across from a rabid, anti-Semite and neo- Nazi? And I think that's the interesting thing about where we are now.

These aren't abstract or theoretical debates about free speech. These are what are you doing with your platform and your audience? Who are you endorsing, cosigning by putting them in front of millions of people?

And I just think with power, with influence comes responsibility. And we're dealing with the consequences of a society where that seemingly basic premise is not shared by everyone.

SANCHEZ: Yes. To that point, I wanted to ask you about the idea of working toward wisdom in an era where truth itself is elusive, not only because we're drowning in information and disinformation bombarded by propaganda and brain rot, but also because of the notion that it's like a post-structuralist, post-modern idea that truth is ultimately subjective and largely determined by authority, by those in power. So if wisdom takes work and we're seeking it, how do you know what's true?

[15:50:00]

HOLIDAY: Yes, I think we have a recency bias in most of our information diet. Obviously, we're talking here on television. You guys break all sorts of important news.

But I think to be able to make sense of what's happening of the present moment, you have to root your understanding, you have to root your perspective in history and truth. I think it was Truman who said the only thing new in the world is history that you don't yet know. And so I think too many people are consuming the latest speculation on social media, the latest breaking headline. But they struggle to make sense of it, to separate, you know, speculation from truth, information from misinformation or disinformation, because they don't have the historical basis or they don't understand even, you know, human nature, human psychology, or even just how the government works.

And so I think it is imperative that we all, you know, try to remain informed. I just would urge people to remember that getting it as it happens is not always the best way to do it. And it's hard to do it if you haven't based it on this sort of historical perspective.

SANCHEZ: That's a really important point. It's also interesting because stoic philosophy also encourages us to take control of our perceptions, to own that our mindset is a choice --

HOLIDAY: Yes.

SANCHEZ: -- and that it shapes how we experience the world around us. You often quote Seneca -- you know, I'm a fan. We dye events with our own color.

So then where do you draw the line between that sort of cognitive training, that reframing, and then delusion or denial or delving into ideas that may feel good, but are harmful not only to yourself, but to society?

HOLIDAY: Yes, at the core of stoic philosophy is this idea that events are objective and our opinions about them are not. Our responses about them is the important thing. And so I think I would urge people, especially if you find yourself getting triggered, getting upset, despairing, getting ecstatic about what you're hearing on the news, to ask yourself, hey, is this actually the right response?

You know, how can I step? Do I have to have an opinion about this? So philosophy is the idea that you have the initial reaction, the initial emotion, and then you put that opinion, that reaction to the test.

And you ask yourself, is this healthy? Is this constructive? Is this based on anything real? The stoic said that a great philosopher could tell the way a money changer, by banging a coin on the table, can hear if it's real or counterfeit. And I think we have to cultivate this ability, especially not just in a world of a lot of information, but a world of AI and deep fakes, you know, the ability to suss out, hey, is this real? Is this true or not?

And is my reaction, is that what they were trying to provoke in me? These are all really important skills, discipline, really, that we have to cultivate if we want to have wisdom and truth.

SANCHEZ: The book is "Wisdom Takes Work." It is worth your time. Ryan Holiday, we always appreciate yours.

Thanks for joining us.

HOLIDAY: Thanks for having me.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Dramatic video of the moment that a man is rescued. You see him there during those heavy storms that rolled across Southern California over the weekend.

SANCHEZ: The first responders say someone nearby heard him calling for help. Fortunately, firefighters were able to pull him to safety.

CNN meteorologist Derek Van Dam has more on California's storm threat.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: This is what happens when you set daily rainfall records across Southern California. This is coming out of Naples near Long Beach. People were kayaking through their neighborhoods.

There may be some smiles on the young people's faces as they get to do something they've never experienced perhaps before. But you better believe that the parents and homeowners of this particular location may be thinking something completely different. That is, of course, water entering homes and businesses.

And all I see there is dollar bill signs, right? That costs money to clean up. So we have this rainfall total that, by the way, has set the November wettest rainfall total for Santa Barbara.

We saw daily rainfall records in places like Long Beach as well as UCLA. Some of the heaviest of rain across Ventura and Santa Barbara counties, but it's really that transverse mountain range there that's helping wring out all the moisture from these atmospheric rivers that continue to pound the state of California. This was a little bit of a different setup, kind of a low that's traversing the coastal areas, but it's going to bring more rain into Southern California through the overnight period and could time with the evening rush hour commute as well. So we want to take that into consideration.

Widespread one to locally three inches of rainfall, and that puts some of the heaviest rainfall in these hard-hit areas from the weekend. So look out for the potential of landslides and mudslides because we still have our burn scars throughout this area from earlier this year.

[16:00:00]

And if you put water on top of that, of course, all gravity always tends to win in these situations, and that can cause serious concerns in terms of landslides.

Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: All right. Our thanks to Derek for that.

Yes, that's always the concern. Certainly, having grown up in Southern California, you're always concerned about the rain after that burn, for sure.

"THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

END