Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

House Votes to Release Epstein Files in Rare Show of Unity; Saudi Crown Prince: Khashoggi Death was "Painful," "Huge Mistake"; Trump Calls Journalist "Terrible Person" for Asking Epstein Question; Sen. GOP Leader: Vote on Epstein Files Could Happen as Soon as Today. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 18, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Pomp and circumstance at the White House as the controversial Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammad bin Salman, meets with President Trump. What they said about future investments, the Abraham Accords, and the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi as well as the 9/11 attacks.

Plus, a rare show of unity in the House of Representatives. In an almost unanimous vote, lawmakers passed the bill to release the Epstein files. It's a remarkable reversal from Republicans, as attention now shifts to the Senate.

And then later, big changes coming to Roblox. It will start using ID checks and AI to help protect children playing the online video game. But will it be enough?

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We're following major breaking news out of the nation's capital. Just moments ago, the House passing a bill to compel the full release of the Epstein files. Every Democrat and every Republican except one voting yes, meaning the measure is now headed into the hands of Senate Majority Leader John Thune. And now one step closer to President Trump's desk.

Also happening right now, President Trump is at the White House with the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammad bin Salman. The President just a short time ago sitting right next to the Crown Prince and defending him when a reporter asked a question about the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. The President describing Khashoggi as quote, "extremely controversial."

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is live for us at the White House.

Caitlin, really an extraordinary moment there. We should note that bin Salman has not yet left the White House. He's staying a bit longer than initially was scheduled.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR, THE SOURCE: Yes, he was scheduled to depart around 2 P.M. Boris. He is still here. We're waiting to see. He'll drive right behind me when the Saudi Crown Prince does leave. So, we'll be watching that moment closely.

But also, Boris, we have not heard from the President yet, obviously, in the last few moments ever since that vote overwhelmingly passed on Capitol Hill, calling on the Justice Department to release the files that it has on Jeffrey Epstein.

And just to show you what a rare moment this is here in Washington, normally it is Republicans caving to pressure from President Trump. We are seeing the exact opposite happen right now, where the President is caving to pressure from Republicans when it came to this vote. When he gave the go-ahead on Sunday for all of them to vote and have this vote come out, as it did, because the White House knew they were staring down some huge numbers that were prepared to defy President Trump inside the GOP, which is not something you see very often here in Washington.

But it kind of speaks to the moment of not really just the President's relationship with his party, but how much this issue has resonated with these lawmakers, with their constituents, and the pressure that they have faced from the women, the survivors who were on Capitol Hill today saying that this is not a political matter, that they want these files out there, because it is something, as one of the survivors pointed out, that they have been trying to do for decades throughout multiple presidencies, and yet they do not believe there has been enough transparency on this.

And the President was asked about Jeffrey Epstein earlier, why doesn't he just release the files by himself from his own Justice Department instead of having this law make its way through Capitol Hill, and this is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein. I threw him out of my club many years ago because I thought he was a sick pervert. You just keep going on the Epstein files. And what the Epstein is, is a Democrat hoax to try and get me not to be able to talk about the $21 trillion that I talked about today. It's a hoax.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The President saying there he views it as a distraction, but obviously it's not an issue that's going away anytime soon. And certainly, that question will still linger about how the White House plans to handle it. If the Senate passes this, and if the Majority Leader over there, John Thune, takes it up, since President Trump said yesterday that yes, he would sign it if it comes to his desk. But he has been focused today, obviously, understandably, Boris, on this meeting with the Saudi Crown Prince.

The first time that we have seen him here since U.S. intelligence concluded that yes, the Saudi Crown Prince personally ordered the murder of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi, is something that is an assessment that came out from the CIA, the last time Trump was in office, which is what makes this comment that happened earlier inside the Oval Office from President Trump even more stunning.

[15:05:04]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: As far as this gentleman is concerned, he's done a phenomenal job. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about, whether you like him or didn't like him. Things happen. But he knew nothing about it. And we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: That is not what the Trump-led CIA in 2018 said. They said that he knew basically everything about it, and that Jamal Khashoggi would not have been killed inside that Saudi consulate without the permission of the Saudi Crown Prince who was sitting there looking at his hands as the President was answering that question and almost justifying his murder, Boris, by saying that Jamal Khashoggi was extremely controversial as he did there. And so just a stunning moment as he not only defended that, but also said that MbS has a great human rights record.

SANCHEZ: Things happen is what the President said after describing the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thank you so much. Brianna.

KEILAR: And now to that stunning moment on Capitol Hill, the House voting nearly unanimously to compel the DOJ to release the Jeffrey Epstein case files. Some of Epstein's survivors were actually watching. They were inside in the House gallery there for the proceedings. But there's a fierce debate that is brewing about how this bill is now going to look as it moves forward. CNN's Manu Raju is with us now from the Hill.

Manu, just one Republican voting nay here in the House.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Clay Higgins of Louisiana, the only no vote, 427 to one. You rarely see that in this -- particularly in these polarized times, particularly on an issue that has been so controversial, has dogged the Speaker of the House and the White House for months. But ultimately, they had to side with where their party was going and where the momentum was, and ultimately decided to join ranks, which is why we saw such an overwhelming vote in favor of this bill now going to the United States Senate.

The question will be, how does the Senate deal with this? The Senate Majority Leader John Thune has some options. He could try to pass the bill as is, and that would require the support of all 100 senators to quickly pass the bill. Or he could try to change the bill, as the Speaker of the House has urged him to do, even though the speaker ultimately sided and voted for this bill. He has raised concerns about some of the language dealing with how the victims' identities would be dealt with. That is something that has gotten fierce pushback from the supporters of this plan, namely Thomas Massie Kentucky, who urged Republicans in the Senate and Democrats not to change this bill, saying if they do, it would amount to a cover-up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: What's the impact if the Senate does in fact change this bill?

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): They're part of the cover-up. These bozos here, they -- like, they pretend like, okay, now we're ready to pull the Band-Aid off. After five months of shooting themselves in the foot, politically and morally, they're ready to pull the Band-Aid off. But the reality is, Speaker Johnson's press conference shows that he is unrepentant. They have a backup plan, and I think it's going to work poorly for them, by the way.

By the time they get done with trying to cover up, by having these other investigations or having amendments in the Senate, they're just going to make more people complicit.

RAJU: Just a few feet from me now, actually, the survivors of the -- of Epstein's sex trafficking ring, the ones who were on Capitol Hill lobbying for this bill, walking out and walking towards their cars, leaving the United States House after witnessing this vote happening, overwhelming vote in the House gallery just moments ago.

And expect some action as this moves across the Capitol to the Senate this afternoon. The Senate Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer, says that he plans to try to force a vote on this issue today, trying to ask what's known for his unanimous consent, meaning asking for all 100 senators to actually vote to approve this bill. If anyone objects, they've got to come to the floor and actually object.

So, that could be a moment, or will the Republicans say, let this pass, given what happened in the House, and try to avoid this issue from dominating their chamber in the Senate like it's dominated the House for the last several months? Guys.

KEILAR: Yes, that could be a very dramatic moment. Manu Raju, live for us on the Hill just outside the House chamber there. Thank you.

Still to come, more on coverage of the nearly -- more coverage of the nearly unanimous House vote to release the Epstein files. The bill, as Manu said, now heading to the Senate.

Plus, North Carolina, on edge. Immigration -- federal immigration agents are now on the ground in Raleigh after dozens were arrested in Charlotte here in the past few days. We have the latest.

And then later, they're the backbone of the American economy, but the country's affordability crisis is hitting small businesses especially hard.

[15:10:06]

We'll have that and much more coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:14:30]

SANCHEZ: We're continuing to follow two major stories happening today in the nation's capital, the House just overwhelmingly voting to compel the Department of Justice to release all of the Epstein files. In a rare show of unity, the vote was 427 to 1. Louisiana Republican Congressman Clay Higgins, the only member voting against this bill, which now heads to the Senate.

Also happening right now, President Trump meeting with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman, the President welcoming him to the White House earlier today.

[15:15:01]

This is the prince's first visit to the U.S. since the CIA assessed that he likely ordered the 2018 assassination of Saudi dissident journalists for the Washington Post's Jamal Khashoggi. Let's discuss both these issues and more with Chris Matthews, the former host of MSNBC's "Hardball" and the author of "Lessons From Bobby: Ten Reasons Robert F. Kennedy Still Matters."

Chris, thank you so much for being with us.

Over the last decade, President Trump has controlled the narrative, not only surrounding himself, but eventually surrounding his party. This Epstein issue, though, is, aside from being one that he campaigned on, now one that seems to have gotten out of his control. Why do you think it's so sticky among his base?

CHRIS MATTHEWS, FORMER HOST, "HARDBALL": Well, I think something about -- about that I want to talk about. Sunday morning, he said, don't release the papers, the Epstein papers. Sunday evening, he said, release them. The House of Representatives used to be an independent body, remember? It used to be a Congress. It immediately bowed to him. Only -- only one vote against it. In other words, they are completely robots.

What happened to an independent legislature that controls tariffs and other things and taxes? It's gone. The obedient servant of -- of Michael Johnson is an embarrassment. I think the idea that -- and the idea of MbS, excuse me, the guy murdered somebody. A Washington Post reporter and the -- and the Washington Post never mentioned today any problem with that. They never editorialized against it. The murderer of our reporter is at a meeting in the White House today. But we're not going to mention it today because it's owned by a Republican Trump guy.

SANCHEZ: What did you make ...

MATTHEWS: I mean, the idea that you let a murderer into the White House, then you say there was some controversy about him. What? You don't say controversy about a murderer.

SANCHEZ: It was notable his reaction to the ABC reporter, Mary Bruce, who asked the questions about Jamal Khashoggi and ...

MATTHEWS: And did he -- what did he say?

SANCHEZ: He said that she was a terrible reporter. He attacked her personally. Things that I can't ...

MATTHEWS: Piggy or something like that.

SANCHEZ: That was a -- a different incident. A question about the Epstein files, I believe, over the weekend when he was on Air Force One. But -- but today he described her as insubordinate, which I found particularly telling, sitting next to -- who he was sitting next to. What do you think of it?

MATTHEWS: Well, Michael -- Michael Johnson has never been call -- accused of being insubordinate. He's an obedient servant. This presidency is as close to a monarchy as we've had in 250 years. And now we're coming around to our Independence Day.

I think it's awful that these people are obeying him. I don't -- the Senate is going to do what it can to logjam this whole effort to get the truth out. And I think politicians -- I don't know what Trump's hiding. He's hiding something. I don't know if it's illegality or power of his -- who knows what it is.

I think the press shouldn't make the mistake it did during the Russian investigation last time around of assuming they know the bottom line. We don't know the bottom line.

SANCHEZ: To be clear, the -- the President has not been directly accused of any wrongdoing ...

MATTHEWS: Right.

SANCHEZ: ... by Virginia Giuffre or other Epstein survivors.

I want to ask you about the book, which we have here, "Lessons from Bobby: Ten Reasons Robert F. Kennedy Still Matters." You describe America as, quote, "Divided, one side obediently loyal to Donald Trump," which you just explained. "Meanwhile, the opposition Democrats are weak, implausibly so."

MATTHEWS: Don't you think?

SANCHEZ: What lessons -- what lessons ...

MATTHEWS: As a reporter, don't you think that's obvious that the Democrats are weak?

SANCHEZ: I -- I wonder what lessons you could -- you think they could learn from RFK?

MATTHEWS: I think -- I think of -- on the side of the President, I think he has grabbed for power. I think the important message is the division coming up at our own Thanksgiving tables. I -- I think that there'll be a lot of families where some people go into the room, the dinner table, and they go, I better not say certain things. Better not say some things because it's going to offend certain people. The Trumpies on one side.

And I think there's -- a lot of it's become -- it's not so much ethnicity or anything. It's about -- I went to college and you didn't. That has become a dividing -- there never was an American politics that divisive of reality. But town versus gown has become a reality of American life. If you didn't go to college and you're sitting at a table with somebody who did, there's a division there, an implication that you voted for Trump and the other guy didn't. And I think that's a real problem.

SANCHEZ: I wanted to ask you also about one of the lessons you draw from Bobby Kennedy's life. It's the title of one of the chapters and that is "Admit Your Mistakes."

MATTHEWS: Yes. He -- he called it a hang a lantern on your problem. Bobby admitted before he became attorney general of the United States in 1961. He didn't care about black rights. He didn't care. He said, I openly didn't care. And yet he was the most powerful worker. I mean, he -- he opened up the University of Mississippi, Ole Miss brought in James Meredith. He opened up the University of Alabama and fought with George Wallace. He pushed his brother on the civil rights bill in 1963. He really did the job.

[15:20:00]

He became -- I think if you care about civil rights, human rights in this country, look for people who change their mind to become more and more passionate about it, and he did.

SANCHEZ: The book is "Lessons from Bobby: Ten Reasons Robert F. Kennedy Still Matters." Chris Matthews, thanks so much for the time.

MATTHEWS: Boris, it's great being here. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Pleasure.

Some breaking news into CNN, Senate Majority Leader John Thune giving CNN's Manu Raju an update on his plans for the Epstein bill that just passed the House. We're going to take you back to Capitol Hill in just one moment to hear those plans. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:09]

KEILAR: Turning back to our breaking news. The House nearly unanimously voting to compel the Justice Department to release the Jeffrey Epstein case files. Now we're learning when the Senate could take that bill up. We have CNN's Manu Raju live for us on the Hill. What are you hearing, Manu?

RAJU: Yes, this is huge news. The Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, indicating that this bill just passed the United States House by a 427 to one vote, now could pass the Senate as soon as tonight. In fact, that is what he just -- just told reporters moments ago. He said that it could move, quote, "fairly quickly" in the United States Senate and that there would not be any changes because of the fact that it was approved by such a large margin.

And remember, the Speaker of the House wanted changes to this bill. He resisted a vote in the House to begin with. The White House also resisted a vote for many months here. The President ultimately coming to the side of where his party was going to support this bill. He said that it should pass United States House. And now for the first time, we are getting a clear indication from John Thune himself that they indeed will try to quickly pass this bill.

So, here are some of the mechanics. In order to pass this bill tonight, he needs to have all 100 senators on board and essentially green light this process from advancing. One senator, Republican or Democrat, if they were to object, he or she could go to the floor and say, I object, and this bill would not pass. It seems unlikely that would happen given the way the momentum has totally shifted here on this issue that has completely divided the Republicans for months and has bogged down House action for months as well.

But John Thune making a clear calculation here that he does not want this to bog down his chamber because Democrats plan to make this an issue day after day after day if they were not to get a vote on this plan. Thune himself just a couple of weeks ago indicated very little interest in scheduling a vote on this bill. He said a number of documents, thousands have been released. He doesn't see -- he didn't see a need for it.

At that time, he was in line with the White House's position. But as we've seen the White House shift, as we've seen the Speaker shift, we are seeing Senate Republicans shift as well. And now John Thune indicating that this bill could be on its way to the President's desk tonight. A stunning shift here in Washington on an issue that has divided Republicans for months. Guys.

KEILAR: I think that was Lauren Boebert, who reporters were scrumming around walking down next to you, Manu, who was so -- such a significant figure in what was such an extraordinary day on Capitol Hill because the White House, despite having her over there, a rank- and-file member, trying our reporting shows to maybe peel her off of this initial vote to get this on the House floor, they were unable to do so, and here we are today.

RAJU: Yes, and she withstood that pressure. They brought her into the Situation Room. They tried to make the case about a number of documents that had been released in the Epstein files. And she was that -- one of those four members who actually forced a vote on the floor.

Remember, the process was to circumvent the Republican leadership, to circumvent the opposition of Mike Johnson, so they had to get formally 218 signatures on a petition to force a vote. 214 Democrats, four Republicans. She was one of the four Republicans, Lauren Boebert was. And that vote now, because of that, the vote happened today, passed by a 427 to one vote in the House, going to pass the Senate as soon as tonight, and now will become law because she withstood the pressure from the White House. Guys.

KEILAR: Yes, what a change of fortunes when it comes to this effort.

Manu Raju, thank you very much for that excellent reporting.

President Trump welcoming Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince to the White House, his first U.S. visit in seven years. His first visit since the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, a killing the Crown Prince coordinated, according to the CIA, that was the CIA during the first Trump administration. We'll discuss it with two of Khashoggi's former colleagues next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)