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Senate Sends Bill Forcing Release of Epstein Files to Trump; Trump Administration Quietly Working on New Peace Plan with Russia; Gaza Health Officials: At Least 25 Killed in New Israeli Strikes; New Study Challenges Risks of Fluoride in Drinking Water. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired November 19, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: So, as we take a look -- we wait, rather, for word on when President Trump will sign the bill to release the Epstein files. There are growing questions about just what his ultimate 180 here says about his control of the Republican Party. Rather than face that mass defection in the House, of course, Trump flipped to support the bill to force the Justice Department to release non-classified Jeffrey Epstein files.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: It was really the first time in Trump's second term that we've seen Trump rebuked by his fellow Republicans. But the question is, is this specific to the Epstein issue, the issue of those files being released? Does it potentially signal something more broad regarding his presidency, the potential of him being a lame duck?

Let's discuss with Marc Short, the former chief of staff to former Vice President Mike Pence. Marc, great to see you, as always.

MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Is this break specific to the Epstein files? Is it signaling something more broad to you?

SHORT: I wouldn't read too much more into it. I think that the president's grip on the Republican Party remains really strong. I think that the members of Congress are still supporting his agenda.

You still see them going forward with all of his nominations. You see them stand with him lockstep on trade, which really should be Congress's job, not the executive branch. And so I think that the White House miserably handled the Epstein saga from the start to finish.

They're the ones in the campaign that sort of lit the fire and they had all sorts of allegations about prominent Democrat impropriety and promised when they came in they'd release all the files. Pam Bondi said, I've got the files on my desk. And then they said, we have no files. There are no -- there's nothing here to see, nothing released. So I think they've totally mishandled this from start to finish. But I don't think this is a reflection more broadly about his grip on the party.

HILL: It is sort of remarkable how, how poorly they read the room, right? For, I mean, in terms of what the backlash would be, I've also found it fascinating over the last several days to watch the president's reaction when he is asked legitimate questions about this. He responds with name calling, insulting reporters, right?

This is clearly getting under his skin. He doesn't want to answer the questions. And yet it is so important to, I think, an increasing number of Americans, many of whom may not have been as invested in it a short time ago.

SHORT: Yes. Erica, I think that's a good point. I think the reality is that not only did they, they mishandled by totally flip flopping, but what they've done is make it a much longer story.

It allowed us to be driving news cycles for, for many months when I think Elena's reporting is accurate from the White House. So the president's anxious to turn the page and the way they've handled this hasn't allowed him to do that. But again, I think his grip on the party remains pretty strong.

SANCHEZ: What do you think of his messaging on this? We often talk about how he messages, but on this specific issue, it's notable that he gets irked when reporters ask about it. And then further, he specifically says, I don't want people to talk about this.

Don't talk too much about this. Let's talk about trade. Let's talk about these peace deals.

Should he just handle this differently, you think?

SHORT: Look, again, I think that their campaign was the one who pushed a lot of different theories on this and then promised a lot of things to the American people when they came in. I think ultimately, Boris, whether you're a Republican or Democrat, a lot of Americans want transparency. And so I think that's what's misreading.

[14:35:00]

Ultimately Americans, you know, now that you've, you've sparked this, they want to see, was there anything that's being hidden? In the way that this has been mishandled, just, you know, it conjures up more conspiracies about what's actually being hidden. And so, so yes, I think that until it all comes out. I know there's different theories that, that the president, you know, by, by sparking investigations and Democrats is his way of hiding it. The American people want to watch this out. This information is going to come out.

HILL: To the point of things being mishandled. Do you think Speaker Johnson has mishandled this? SHORT: I think he's been a tough position on this, Erica. I mean, I, again, I think that they promised they wanted it out. Then they, they were instructing, I think, Speaker Johnson not to have it.

I think once that, once it was clear that the tipping point was there in the House, you knew it'd be a jailbreak vote, that it wasn't going to be a close vote, which is why the White House then pivoted to, hey, we want it out too, but.

HILL: We've always wanted out. Yes.

SANCHEZ: I wonder, given the, the perspective you have on, on his grip over the party being pretty firm, does this embolden folks to dissent on other things, seeing that Thomas Massey has effectively survived this. He hasn't yet seen a primary. We'll see where that goes.

Marjorie Taylor Greene being called a traitor. She seems to still somewhat be intact or, or, or do you think that these folks are not going to fare so well next year?

SHORT: Look, I think that the president has effectively taken out his political opponents. Thomas Massey though, I think is somebody who's got a pretty long track record. He's been pretty consistent in what he believes and, and voters continue to elect him.

And so I don't, I don't know that's really wise for them to look to say, we're going to make this a target because again, I think that's one they'll probably miss on. So I think that they're more -- should be more focused on keeping the caucus united. Because Boris, you and I have talked about in your show many times, I think a greater challenge for them is going to be the economy. And I think that's going to be a growing threat for them in the coming year.

You saw Target announced weak earnings. You saw Home Depot announced them yesterday. And I think there's growing concern that this trade agenda is really impacting working families.

And that's going to be a bigger concern of holding the Republican caucus together next year.

HILL: Marc Short, great to have you in the studio. Thank you.

SHORT: Thanks, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

HILL: Still to come here, new details about its secret plan to end Russia's war with Ukraine. CNN global affairs analyst, Barak Ravid, joins us with his new reporting next.

[14:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: A high level delegation from the Pentagon led by the secretary of the army is in Ukraine today meeting with officials there. A person familiar with the talks tells CNN the U.S. has been quietly working on a peace plan alongside the Kremlin. Axios is reporting that the plan focuses on 28 points, which include peace in Ukraine and security guarantees for Kyiv and Europe.

All of this happening as Russia unleashed a devastating assault on western Ukraine overnight. Let's get the latest from CNN political and global affairs analyst, Barak Ravid. He's also a global affairs correspondent for Axios.

Barak, thank you for being with us. Just a couple of hours ago, you published some new reporting about the contents of the proposed plan, at least what it looks like so far. It includes some serious concessions of land on Ukraine's part.

Tell us about that.

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, thank you. I think a lot of the elements in this plan are elements that have been discussed over the last nine months since the Trump administration assumed office. They've been discussed in all sorts of variations.

And this effort now is an attempt to take all of those things that have been discussed over the last few months, put it all together, get feedback from the Russians, feedback from the Ukrainians, and see if a plan -- if there's a plan that can be implemented or be accepted by both parties. And I think it's very similar to the effort that we saw the Trump administration doing on the war in Gaza. It's definitely what I hear from U.S. officials, that the Gaza plan inspired the current Ukraine plan.

And what the U.S. is talking about is basically to have some very serious territorial concessions by Ukraine to Russia, especially in the Donbass, and basically taking the around 12 percent of the Donbass that is still controlled by Ukraine, giving it to Russia and turning it to a demilitarized zone that Russia will not be able to put troops in. In return, the U.S. proposes robust security guarantees to both Ukraine and Europe as a whole that, if I can sum it up in one sentence, it's basically a guarantee that the U.S. will defend Ukraine and Europe against any future Russian aggression.

This is -- these are obviously terms that at the moment I do not see how Ukraine can accept. There are several other terms, like limiting the size of the Ukrainian army, limiting the long-range weapons that the Ukrainian army can have -- also a big no-no for the Ukrainians. But also it includes some land swaps and some land that the Russians will give back to the Ukrainians, especially in the Kherson and Zaporizhian regions. There are many other details, but I think that as a whole it is an effort by the Trump administration to use the momentum of the Gaza deal to move forward with ending the war in Ukraine.

SANCHEZ: So to the point you're making about some of these proposed concessions of land and some of these other things that Ukraine would have to accept, you express skepticism.

[14:45:00] Have you heard U.S. officials say confidently, according to your sources, that they believe Kyiv would somehow come around to these ideas?

RAVID: So what I heard from a very senior U.S. official who is involved in this effort is that over the weekend there have been talks taking place in Miami between President Trump's envoy Steve Whitkoff and President Zelenskyy's envoy Rustam Umarov. And according to the U.S. officials, there were several understandings around this plan, and the Ukrainians managed to get some of their points into the plan, not all of them. The Ukrainians obviously did not accept the entire plan, but U.S. officials say that they did think after those talks in Miami that there was progress.

And another thing I hear from a senior U.S. official is that the territorial concessions that Ukraine is being asked to make will not be relevant anymore at the end of 2026, because the U.S. assessment is that in the next few months, maybe a year tops, if the war continues, Russia will take over those 12 percent of the Donbass that Ukraine still holds, which means that, according to U.S. officials that I spoke to, time is not on Ukraine's side.

And they say that now is the right timing for Ukraine to make those concessions and get a peace deal with security guarantees instead of continuing the war and maybe in a year not even having this territory as a bargaining chip.

SANCHEZ: It'll be interesting to see how this plan moves forward. Barak Ravid, thank you so much for your reporting and your perspective.

RAVID: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Erica.

HILL: The fragile ceasefire between Israel and Hamas is being tested once again, Israel carrying out multiple strikes on several parts of Gaza. Health officials from various hospitals say at least 25 Palestinians have been killed, including at least three children. CNN's international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joins us now from Jerusalem.

So, Nic, what more do we know about these attacks and the intended targets?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, we're getting some new details as well from Palestinian health officials. They say, as of now, 28 people have been killed.

Nine of them were children. They say eight of them women. The most deadly attack came in Zeitoun, which is just sort of south of Gaza City, so sort of in the northern area of Gaza.

They say there 13 people were killed, four of them women, four of them children, 13 other people killed in the south. It's not clear where all the other fatalities were. Seventy-seven people injured in totality so far.

It's not clear if all the IDF strikes are over for the day. But the strikes did begin, we're told. The IDF say that they were fired upon by several terrorists, and that this is what drew this particular response.

The IDF said they had no casualties from this incident being fired upon, of course, not the first time that the ceasefire has broken down. As I say, not quite clear if the IDF strikes are continuing into the night.

HILL: There are questions about, obviously, the impact on the ceasefire, but there's also -- these are not the first attacks that we have seen in Gaza, either, since the ceasefire began.

ROBERTSON: Yes. And one of those particular attacks, there have been two, and one that are notable, and one of them lasted -- the IDF counterstrikes, if you will, lasted almost 24 hours. They did cease.

The ceasefire, perhaps, in a way, you could say, it did -- it has gotten stronger since then, because it's lasted longer, it's got better oversight in the civil-military combined center that Israel has established with the United States and other allies to kind of oversee what's happening in Gaza. And also, you've had the U.N. Security Council resolution over the past couple of days, which has given a legal basis for President Trump's 20-point peace plan to move forward from that ceasefire.

But none of the pieces of that are in place yet, the border of peace to oversee, the International Stabilizing Force, the Palestinian police, the disarming of Hamas. None of that has happened. So, in that context, it remains fragile.

And the other context that it remains fragile in, Israel and Hamas, even after the U.N. Security Council resolution, have a complete difference of opinion. Hamas has said very clearly they don't want that international security force. They're not going to disarm to them. And Israel has said, clearly, that International Stabilization Force must disarm Hamas.

So, we are in a context here that you can get an escalation.

[14:50:00]

But at the moment, it doesn't appear as if the ceasefire is completely broken down.

HILL: Nic, really appreciate it. Thank you.

Just ahead here, there is new research suggesting the benefits of fluoride in your tap water. So how much is good for you? We'll take a closer look with Dr. Sanjay Gupta

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) next.

HILL: A brand new study is challenging the idea that fluoride in drinking water is harmful to brain health.

[14:55:00]

So this research suggests it could be the opposite. Beneficial for cognitive ability, despite some claims made by certain federal officials.

Joining us now, CNN Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. So Sanjay, it's good to see you. Break this down for us. What are these new findings?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So remember these previous studies, which showed concerns about high levels of fluoride exposure being associated with lower IQ in children. That got a lot of attention, as you remember, Erica, some time ago. The concern about those studies was, though, that the fluoride exposures that we were talking about in those previous studies were about two times what you typically see here in the United States.

So this new study that you're asking about basically wanted to say, hey, look, what happens if you study people over a long period of time at fluoride exposures that are typical of what we see here in the United States? 27,000 people were followed basically over 40 years.

So, you know, long term study between 1980 and 2021. And along the way, they started off as people who are students, and then they were people who got into their 40s, 50s and 60s, because, again, this was a 40 year long study. And they found when you measure things like reading and math and memory and attention, as you pointed out, Erica, in some cases, they actually outperform students who are not exposed to fluoride levels at all.

Now, you know, it's not clear why that is. You know, it could be that the communities that fluoridate their water regularly may have better schools, more resources. But I think what this study makes clear, first of all, a huge study, 40 years following them, is that at typical levels of fluoride exposure, there is not a negative sort of impact on cognitive health.

And there isn't one even in the future after several decades. So that was a bit of good news there.

HILL: So to that point, then, Sanjay, do we know what the impact would be of removing fluoride from the water?

GUPTA: Yes, we do. And I'll caveat this as well by saying, look, if you go back several decades before there was fluoridated water, before we had fluoridated toothpaste, the reason that fluoridated water had more of an impact in the past is because fluoridated toothpaste wasn't as widely used. Now that people use fluoridated toothpaste more regularly, the incremental benefit of fluoridation in the water has gone down, but it's still really significant.

So, like, if you say, OK, we're going to remove fluoride, what happens over the next five years? And you can sort of predict the number of cavities that people will have, roughly 25 million extra decayed teeth and children within five years, 54 million within 10 years.

So, yes, I mean, these are the two questions with regard to fluoridation of water. Does it help? Might it harm? And in both cases, we know that it actually does prevent cavities.

And again, at levels typical of what we see in the United States, there does not appear to be that harm.

HILL: Which is so important. I'm just going to make you say that one more time, Sanjay, because that is, you know, we have to talk about what is actually in existence in this country if we're going to talk about making any changes to it. And to your point, the levels here have largely been shown to be safe and, as we're seeing, effective.

GUPTA: Yes, and over decades as well. So I think that was really important. I think part of the reason this study will get so much attention is, you know, you're talking 40 years worth of data now in 27,000 people.

But again, you know, there's this adage in medicine, Erica, the dose makes the poison. Anything at too high a dose could be potentially problematic, including fluoride. But that's not the case here in the United States.

HILL: Yes. Sanjay, always appreciate it. Good to see you. Thanks.

GUPTA: You got it. Thank you.

HILL: Boris.

SANCHEZ: Now to some of the other headlines we're watching this hour. The 22-year-old leader of a neo-Nazi group called the Maniac Murder Cult has pleaded guilty to plotting hate crimes against minorities. That includes a plot to have someone dressed up as Santa Claus in New York to hand out poison candy to Jewish children.

He also pleaded guilty to distributing information on how to make bombs and ricin. Prosecutors are asking for up to 18 years behind bars for the man who goes by the nickname Commander Butcher.

Also, a five-year-old in Ohio helped stop a man accused of punching his mom in the face and grabbing her car keys.

Watch this. Surveillance video shows her three kids, led by the five- year-old, chasing after the suspect. The mom says her kids hit the suspect, then officers took him down.

A reporter later spoke with the boy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You chased after him real fast.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE CHILD: Yes I did. And I went bam, like this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes you did. Mommy's so proud of you. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Yes, don't mess with that kid. A police officer said the child was impressive and brave. They do not recommend chasing suspects, though.

And a rare painting is now the most expensive piece of modern art ever sold. The work by artist Gustav Klimt fetched a record $236 million during an auction in New York last night after a 20-minute bidding war. The piece, titled Portrait of Elizabeth Lederer, was made in the final years of the Austrian painter's life and narrowly escaped destruction during World War II.

END