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Interview with Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT): Trump Signs Bill Directing DOJ to Release Epstein Case Files; New Study Disputes Claims About Negative Impacts of Fluoride; Officer's Inspirational Organ Donation. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 20, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: The Endangered Species Act has brought back songbirds and different species through the years has been a resounding success in some places here. But yet another indication of the Trump administration's sort of all-out war on environmental protections, species protections, all of the interest of they say the economy and business there.

But this will be again hotly contested going forward. People care about these landscapes. They care about these creatures.

And this will be a fight there.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. And we've seen this fight, you know, for a long time. And businesses often citing, well, we couldn't do this or we can't hire people because we were not able to, you know, break through these laws.

But there are some serious consequences. We'll have to see what happens in all of this. And I know that you will be watching every single moment as we go forward. Thank you so much, Bill, for being here.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The breaking news overnight, President Trump signs the Epstein bill into law. Now the Justice Department is on the clock, facing a deadline to release the files. But is there a loophole for the Justice Department?

This hour, seven weeks behind schedule, thanks to government shutdown. Finally, we are going to have an updated jobs report. What September jobs numbers can tell you in November about the state of the U.S. economy.

And a casino robber on the run. Las Vegas police are asking for help to solve a crime so brazen that you're left wondering, seriously, how did the suspect get away?

I'm Kate Bolduan with John Berman and Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. SIDNER: Breaking overnight, President Trump signed the bill, ordering the Justice Department to release all of its files on Jeffrey Epstein. Though there are limitations, it's unclear what exactly will come out. But whatever is released, the DOJ has just 30 days to make it happen.

CNN's Alayna Treene is at the White House this morning. What are you learning this morning, Alayna?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, let's go through what we can expect, because as you mentioned, Sara, now that Congress has actually approved this legislation and the president signed it last night, the Justice Department has no choice but to turn over these files. They have a 30 day window. That means that we should start to see a lot of these materials just before Christmas.

However, as you mentioned, there are some reason we could see some things still withheld. One, the legislation does require that the Justice Department redact the names and identities of victims. Of course, that is to protect the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse.

But then they also have the ability, the Justice Department, to withhold information and to withhold materials that are related to ongoing criminal investigations. That is a decision that will be up to Attorney General Pam Bondi, as well as the FBI Director Cash Patel. I'd remind you, one of those investigations that could potentially complicate some of this is the one that President Trump himself called for just a couple of days ago on Friday.

He said that he wanted the Justice Department to open an investigation into Democrats and their ties to Epstein, specifically high profile figures like the former President Bill Clinton, the former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers. The list goes on. And so essentially, I mean, first of all, we should say this is very unusual, but we could see less materials than expected.

SIDNER: We're hearing from Pam Bondi that her investigation is already ongoing. Alayna Treene, thank you so much. I do appreciate it -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now is Senator Chris Murphy, a Democrat from Connecticut. Senator Murphy, nice to see you this morning.

So the Department of Justice has 30 days now to release the Epstein files. How much faith do you have that it will?

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT), APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE: Very little. I mean, listen, I think there's only one reason Donald Trump has been fighting so hard to stop the release of these files. It's because this is potentially the biggest scandal in presidential history.

He wouldn't have been squeezing arms as hard as he has been over the course of the last few months if that wasn't true. So there are a variety of ways he could go, all likely not in compliance with the law. He could say that he's not releasing the files because there's an ongoing investigation of Democrats that he ordered. He could redact, you know, 50 percent of the words or all of the names. I'm sure they are meeting in the White House right now trying to decide how they can get around complying with the law. And, you know, it may be that we will ultimately have to take them to court to make sure that they do what the statute says they are required to do, which is tell the American people the truth about what happened, the extent of this child sex ring, and whether the president or other powerful people were involved.

[08:05:00]

BERMAN: You mentioned the investigations into Democrats who had been named in the files that were released by the Epstein estate. One of the things the president did say, and again, he signed it overnight, no signing ceremony, no TV cameras, no nothing. But he did put out a True Social release where he noted that Democrats have been mentioned again in what has been released so far. What if there are more names connected to the Democratic Party that come out as a result of this?

MURPHY: So what? I mean, yes, I'm sure that there are Democrats in those files. There are Republicans in those files.

There are, you know, Wall Street executives who have no political affiliation. What we want is to understand who was involved in this. I mean, I don't think the president is so selfless that he was, you know, stopping the release of these files for so long because he was protecting his friends.

I just think it stands to reason that he's very much connected to this scandal. And we may or may not know the extent of that, because it could be that the president is going to try to find a way to redact any information connected to him from those files. But to me, it just doesn't matter the political affiliation.

The law is the law. They need to release the files.

BERMAN: All right, there was some news overnight in Axios about the possible or probably dwindling possibility, they say, of an extension of the Obamacare subsidies. And this is why the government was shut down for as long as it was. Axios reports that, quote, lawmakers are losing hope for a deal to extend the Affordable Care Act's enhanced subsidies, with leaders in both parties admitting the odds of a bipartisan deal are slim to none.

Senator Brian Schatz, Democrat from Hawaii, a leadership member, told us today, "... it seems imaginary that Republicans can find 13 votes to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits.

So after the shutdown, this is the result?

MURPHY: Well, Donald Trump said himself just, I think, a day or two ago that he is not going to support any legislation to remove these subsidies. And it's because he is so committed to hurting people in order to pay for his tax cuts for billionaires and millionaires. Remember, that's why they cut these subsidies, because they needed that money in order to pay for what will be a new $270,000 tax cut for the richest Americans.

Yet, listen, I didn't support the way that the short-term budget was agreed to, because I thought that we actually could get Donald Trump and Republicans to agree to both open the government and remove these premium increases. So it's not surprising to me that Republicans aren't committed to doing anything about this. But ultimately, as people start paying those higher premiums, and for a lot of people in my state, it's going to be a $25,000 increase in premiums in January.

The pressure is just going to ramp up and ramp up and ramp up. So yes, today, maybe Republicans are saying they're not going to do anything about this. But when that pain hits millions of families' pocketbooks in January, maybe we'll have a shot then.

We're not going to stop fighting on behalf of families. I mean, we're just not.

BERMAN: What's your message to the eight Democrats or seven Democrats and one Independent who did vote to end the shutdown, you know, being promised there would be a vote on the Obamacare subsidy? I guess there may still be a vote there, but it may not be a vote that does anything.

MURPHY: The reality is that Congress doesn't work the way that it used to. It used to be that you could negotiate with Senate Republicans. I did this all the time on guns, on immigration.

And, you know, they would stick to the agreement that they made. Today, all that matters is what Donald Trump believes. So you really can't negotiate.

I wish this weren't true, but you really can't negotiate with Senate or House Republicans because they are just waiting for Donald Trump to tell them what to do. You've got to be negotiating directly with the White House. And right now, the White House has drawn a line in the sand.

They are telling us we are determined to increase costs, determined to increase health premiums on Americans this winter because our only priority is protecting the rich and powerful. Our only priority is raising premiums for the very, very rich and corporations in this country.

BERMAN: Senator Chris Murphy from Connecticut, thanks for coming on this morning. Appreciate it -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Also this morning, the funeral service for former Vice President Dick Cheney will be taking place. A special service is about to get underway. What sources are now telling CNN about the notable guests not invited.

Plus, a new study about fluoride and your drinking water, how it now contradicts what the Health and Human Services Secretary has been claiming. We've got more data on that today.

And an incredible rescue, caught on camera, fire crews rushing into a burning building -- burning home, rather. You have to see this video.

[08:10:00]

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BOLDUAN: This morning, a new study is really adding more to the debate around fluoride, the new data, also contradicting what the HHS secretary, RFK, Jr., has been saying and the alarm that he's raised over supposed dangers and concerns of continuing to put the mineral in drinking water. Remember, Utah and Florida banned the practice after Robert Kennedy, Jr. had raised this alarm and said that fluoride in studies had shown that fluoride in drinking water led to IQ loss. Well, now you have this new study that tracked nearly 27,000 people over four decades.

CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is here on this. And this is a big, I mean, it seems like a big and long study, but what is the debate still around fluoride in drinking water and what does this new study add to it?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think the simplest way to sort of frame this is that if you get high enough exposure to just about anything, it could potentially cause harm.

BOLDUAN: Right.

GUPTA: There's this adage in medicine, the dose makes the poison.

[08:15:00]

So if you looked at the previous studies, they were really looking at fluoride levels that were about twice as high as what you normally find in drinking water in the United States. So at that level, there was concern. Higher fluoride levels, lower IQ.

So what this study set out to do, what they wanted to find out was what about more typical levels of fluoride, the reality, the real world sort of experience. Huge study, as you mentioned, 27,000 people roughly, and they followed them for a long time. So they followed them from conception to 12th grade, and then they followed them 40 years total.

So they kept evaluating them in terms of their cognition. And what they found overall was that there was no degradation overall in cognitive decline, no harm there at typical fluoride levels. Some studies have even suggested that maybe there was improvement.

So the fluoridated communities at normal fluoride levels, they seem to perform better. We don't know what to make of that.

BOLDUAN: Right.

GUPTA: It could be that if you have fluoridated water, you have better schools, more resources. But the idea that harm does not exist when you have normal fluoride levels, I think that's a big headline.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

GUPTA: Because there's been a lot of, you know, worry about this. And obviously, you saw what happened in Utah and Florida.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it at least seems to confirm there is not a negative impact of having it in community water. What would the impact be?

GUPTA: Yes, so, you know, it's interesting. So fluoridation of the water has been around for a long time. In the beginning, I think you had a larger impact because you didn't have widespread fluoridated toothpaste.

BOLDUAN: Right.

GUPTA: As you've gotten fluoridated toothpaste, the overall incremental benefit has gone down, but it's still significant. When you brush your teeth, you're putting fluoride on your teeth. When you're drinking fluoridated water, you're getting fluoride into your system.

So they work in different ways, even though they are both fluoride. So they're both important. But to give you numbers specifically, if you looked at overall number of cavities that would be prevented, within five years, about 25 million cavities.

So a lot of cavities, 10 years, 54 million cavities.

BOLDUAN: Wow!

GUPTA: That is to say that that's what you're getting in terms of benefit by fluoridating water. If you took that out, you'd probably lose a lot of that benefit.

BOLDUAN: Yes, the interesting thing is, you and I talk all the time, is as medical advancements happen, more information, it can change the view of what, you know, what was maybe assumed and understood decades past. And that is an important, because this was considered, remember CDC put out that this, the fluoridation in community water was one of the 10 best public --

GUPTA: Public health achievements of the last century. And they still say that.

BOLDUAN: Yes, OK.

GUPTA: They still fundamentally agree with that. But I do think you're raising an important point.

When evaluating something, you have to ask two questions. Is there harm -- which now I think this study really is probably going to put an end to this debate.

BOLDUAN: OK.

GUPTA: It's a huge study. At the normal fluoride levels, again, anything in too high a dose, even water could potentially be problematic, right? So that's what you got to remember.

But then the second question is, does it continue to provide benefit? And that's why you do these studies.

BOLDUAN: Yes, that's why it's always good to look. But reaching the scientific conclusion is the key part.

GUPTA: Yes, I keep brushing my teeth with my water.

BOLDUAN: You must brush your teeth. Let's just say that. It's great to see you.

GUPTA: You too.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, John.

BERMAN: Wish Kate took that advice. All right. We're standing by -- we are standing by for the release of the September jobs report held back because of the shutdown. It is just minutes away. That job support. This could have crucial information about this jobs market, which has been sagging.

Plus, a high stakes robbery inside a Las Vegas casino. A masked man walks in with a rifle and walks off with cash.

[08:20:00]

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SIDNER: More than 100,000 people in the United States are currently waiting for a life saving organ donation. A new person, by the way, is added to that wait list every eight minutes. But just one person who becomes an organ donor can help many people.

Our Stephanie Elam is an incredible example. The death of one Sacramento police officer who was an organ donor has saved four lives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 25 years ago, the Chairez family was waiting for their youngest son Joe to get home from work and celebrate a late Thanksgiving.

Jess and Theresa Chairez

JESS CHAIREZ, FATHER, JOE CHAIREZ: We know you get off at five o'clock. I said, we'll have a turkey at five o'clock.

ELAM (voice-over): Joe, just 24-years-old, had been training to become a Sacramento police officer.

J. CHAIREZ: He wanted to help everybody.

ELAM (voice-over): But that Thanksgiving Day, Jess and Teresa Chirez got a call from the chief of police while making an arrest. Joe collapsed from an aneurysm. The family rushed to UC Davis Hospital. THERESA CHAIREZ, MOTHER, JOE CHAIREZ: I told myself, oh, this doesn't look good.

ELAM (voice-over): Joe was on life support and doctors said he wasn't going to survive.

J. CHAIREZ: My spirit is already telling me Joe is not here. He's gone.

ELAM (voice-over): But Joe's father recalled a conversation he'd had with his son months before.

J. CHAIREZ: He goes, if anything ever happened to me on the street, I want to donate my organs.

ELAM (voice-over): Faced with that decision, Jess was initially torn.

J. CHAIREZ: I said, God, what do I do? And he told me if I honored my son, I'd be honoring him.

ELAM (voice-over): Joe Chairez, badge 238, was taken off life support and his heart, lungs, liver, kidneys and pancreas were all donated, saving four lives. But Joe's legacy doesn't end there. Devastated by the loss, his father, Jess, struggled for years until finding inspiration.

J. CHAIREZ: I just said, you know what? I'm going to do what my son envisioned. Let me see what I can do. I try to help other people.

ELAM (voice-over): Jess became an advocate for organ donation for the last two decades. He has given speeches, interviews, attended events, all to generate as much attention on the cause as possible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He will never say no to a speaking engagement. If he's available, he's there.

J. CHAIREZ: The more speaking I did, the better I felt inside.

ELAM (voice-over): Jess has carried on his son's legacy by connecting with hundreds of thousands of people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His son's death gave him new purpose.

J. CHAIREZ: Joe, by donating his organs, he helped save four lives. And it actually saved me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[08:25:00]

SIDNER: What a beautiful family and story. For more information on becoming an organ donor, go to registerme.org -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us. President Trump signs the bill directing the Justice Department to release the Epstein files. A big question this morning is when? When will they? We talked to one survivor about what could happen next.

And a shocking earnings report from the world's most valuable company. What it means for Wall Street and the AI boom.

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BERMAN: Overnight, the president signed the bill which calls on the Justice Department to release the Epstein files. By law, the department now has 30 days to do it, but there are loopholes. And we are standing by to see if DOJ claims it cannot release certain information because that information is part of ongoing investigations.

With us now is Haley Robson. She is a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse.

[08:30:00]