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Dems Accuse Trump Of Trying To Incite Violence With Sedition Rhetoric; Zelenskyy Expects To Speak With Trump In Coming Days About Peace Plan; Health Experts Condemn CDC Changes To Vaccine Language. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired November 21, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:31:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. This morning a new response from Sen. Chris Murphy of Connecticut to the President of the United States saying that six Democrats should be executed for saying service members should refuse to follow illegal orders.

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SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): The President of the United States just called for members of Congress to be executed. If you are a person of influence in this country, maybe it's time to pick a (bleep) side. If you are a Republican in Congress, if you are a Republican governor, maybe it's time to draw a line in the sand and say that under no circumstances should the President of the United States be calling on his political opposition to be hanged.

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BERMAN: All right. With us now Democratic strategist Chuck Rocha and strategic communications expert Lee Carter.

Lee, I want to put this to you there. I mean, Chris Murphy not dialing down the rhetoric there but getting to the point here where he's saying that President Trump -- what he's saying is dangerous.

LEE CARTER, STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS EXPERT, PRESIDENT AND PARTNER, MASLANSKY+PARTNERS: And he's not wrong. I mean, this is escalated language that has just gone too far.

When you look at the environment that we're operating -- and this is a president who was -- there was an attempted assassination on this man. He understands the power of language. He understands the power of words.

There's a poll that came out last week that said under certain circumstances about 50 percent of Americans think political violence is acceptable. In that context you have to understand that your words are weapons. When you say things like that you can take up the temperature, and it's just not appropriate. This isn't Trump just being Trump. We can't just dismiss this as him being a bombast. This is not acceptable, and we need to dial the rhetoric back.

BERMAN: And to Sen. Murphy's point, Chuck, is this something that Republicans, Democrats, anyone should speak out on now?

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, PRESIDENT, SOLIDARITY STRATEGIES (via Webex by Cisco): Sure, and the American people kind of spoke out on it just two weeks ago showing their anxiety and their anger with what's going on in their government. If you're a MAGA Republican they love this stuff, but we know who you vote for if you decide to show up and vote. If you are a dyed in the wool Democrat, we know how you feel about it.

But your polling last night -- we talked about this on CNN last night. Independents in the middle who are beholden to either party -- they don't like stuff like this. Nobody should actually like this but it's really affecting folks in the middle who are just looking for some normalcy. And this is not normal and Lee's point, it's dangerous.

BERMAN: Who's the grownup, Lee? I mean, who can say to President Trump don't do this?

CARTER: I wish I knew. I think that Trump has his own instincts. He does what he does. And even if he didn't mean it in that moment -- the way that it came across -- no one is going to get to him and he's going to just have to move on to the next thing. I just don't see him coming out and say I shouldn't have said that.

But the rhetoric just needs to be dialed down on all sides. I mean, let's be honest here. It's not like the Democrats are totally free of the political violence language and inciting these kinds of things. It's on all sides that the temperature is way too high and we need people on all sides to take it down and say you know what, enough is enough. We have to call each other out on all of it.

BERMAN: Um, on the subject of language here -- I'm not going to play it again because it's been played a lot, but President Trump called a reporter -- a female reporter "Piggy." The White House yesterday -- Karoline Leavitt basically came out and defended it saying he's just being frank. Shouldn't we all be so grateful that the president is being frank here.

I want to read you comments in The Free Press this morning -- Nellie Bowles in her morning newsletter. She had something to say about this. She wrote, "Piggy? Republicans remain baffled over why young women are allergic to the party. I can't imagine why. I go over it again and again and come up with no possible reasons why women would feel weird with that response, and so I tell myself quiet, quiet piggy."

CARTER: I mean, I think Donald Trump is Donald Trump and women have decided what they've decided about him. I don't think this is going to be one comment that's going to change the trajectory of things. I think it's reflective of who Donald Trump is. But I think -- you know, I think women have already decided what they think about him. [07:35:05]

BERMAN: I was surprised to read this in day four or five of this story in The Free Press this morning. It made me think, Chuck, that this might have some legs -- some lingering affect that lasts for some time.

ROCHA: We keep talking about words mattering. For anybody who is listening to Donald Trump and knows powerful people in their lives, those are the ones who feel like there's no repercussion. Either they're so rich they don't care or they're so powerful that they don't care.

And I've seen this play out with lots of politicians that I've even worked for -- either side of the party. You come to a point where you think that there's no retribution for you and you can literally do or say anything. But again, words matter and you shouldn't say these kind of basic things. If you wouldn't let your child say the words that the president is saying, then you know that that's wrong.

Going back to the elections and these moderates and Independents in the middle, they get this piece. And this is the piece where they want somebody showing some kind of respect in the president -- in the presidential office and the White House. And that's what America's hungry for and they said that two weeks ago in those elections.

BERMAN: I do wonder, Chuck. Do Democrats -- like 10 months into this Trump administration is President Trump beginning to lose the thread a little bit? You're starting to hear people say lame duck because of what happened with the Epstein files. And I think you may be seeing greater frequency of comments like this causing a stir, whether it be about the executions or piggies here.

Does Donald Trump drive his agenda because I don't think words like this are necessarily his agenda? Is he able to drive his agenda as effectively as he was a few months ago?

ROCHA: If the economy was roaring, if prices was coming down, he could. But folks are living with a certain amount of anxiety because things have not come down as he promised. It all starts and ends there. It's not just affordability, affordability -- Democrats love to say that word -- it's actually the people's lives of insurance premiums, utility costs, the price of coffee, the price of ground beef. These are everyday things where they're feeling anxiety.

And then you have him talking about piggy or talking about killing somebody in the other party and they're like why don't you concentrate on the things that you said you would do. That's why he's becoming more and more of a lame duck president.

BERMAN: It's an interesting confluence -- the stories there. Sort of the Mikie Sherrill argument in New Jersey, which she ran on there.

Chuck Rocha, Lee Carter, thanks to both of you.

ROCHA: Yeah. BERMAN: Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Breaking overnight, Ukraine is reviewing and responding to President Trump's new peace plan, which would have Ukraine make stunning concessions to Russia. President Zelenskyy says he expects to speak to Trump in the coming days.

Notably, the proposal would require Ukraine to give up land to Russia, according to a draft CNN obtained.

Joining me now CNN military analyst, retired Major Gen. James "Spider" Marks. Thank you so much for being here this morning.

Let's talk a little bit about some of the details that CNN has learned of in this plan. It would force Kyiv to give up more territory in the east, some of which Russia has not been able to seize militarily. It says that the U.S. would formally recognize Luhansk, Donetsk, and Crimea as de facto Russian. And it would limit the size of Ukraine's military but also include a security guarantee by the United States and Russia.

First, I just want to get your thoughts on this plan, and then how could it or would it work?

MAJOR GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST, HEAD OF GEOPOLITICAL STRATEGY, ACADEMY SECURITIES (via Webex by Cisco): Well, thanks, Sara.

You know, when you look at this at the very top and you try to view this thing strategically you realize that each one of these conditions that's been specified have been nonstarters from the Ukrainians from the outset. So this becomes a pretty tough pill for them to swallow.

And then when you bring this down to the tactical level there are restrictions in terms of what the Ukrainian military can do in terms of size. It doesn't describe what are the functions that military would be able to embrace and then further develop.

But clearly, these are restrictions that make it incredibly difficult for the Ukrainians to think that this is the path toward peace. But the realization, I think, bringing it back up to the strategic level, is what we've seen over the course of the four years, it's an amazing Ukrainian defense clearly bankrolled by NATO and the United States.

And is that sustainable over the course of time because both the Russians and the Ukrainians have demonstrated an inability to win this war in terms of the application of force in the -- in the fight. This has kind of stalled and there's no indication that there is anything that's going to move them off of this.

So the realization is what do you want to look like five years from now? Is it more of the same or can we agree to a very tough peace that's going to be very difficult to embrace and then hoping to give yourself some time to adjust going forward. And that's what this document also says, which is this will be open for discussions moving forward. We're going to adjust as we go down the road. SIDNER: Yeah. I do --

MARKS: But this is hard. This is very, very hard.

SIDNER: Very hard.

[07:40:00]

Let me sort of get to that part where Ukraine is responding. The chair of Ukraine's Parliamentary Foreign Affairs Committee said that this was a clear attempt to disarm Ukraine and allow Putin to completely destroy us. But then you had President Zelenskyy responding, not outright bashing the plan and saying he's willing to negotiate.

What do these two responses tell you about Ukraine's strategy here?

MARKS: Well, it sounds like there's an element of a conversation within the Ukrainian government. I'm saying that with a smile on my face. It's what you would hope to see. You've got contrarian positions coming up and trying to dissect this and pull it apart, unravel the plan, and say look, you've got a good idea on X. I've got a contrarian position or an ultimate position.

This, in my mind, is what's going to happen moving forward. And I think, Sara, at the end of the day this may end up being what would be the political end of Zelenskyy, irrespective of what he's been able to achieve over four years, which is mindboggling. Absolutely incredible leadership on his part.

But he may go down in history like a Churchill. You know, he won the war but he's not going to win the peace. You're going to -- you're going to have to embrace things that you said were unembraceable because we've got to move forward and we can't afford to have -- you know, we're losing citizenship. They're fleeing. They're migrating elsewhere into Europe. They're trying to get out of Ukraine.

This is not a good outcome so let's give ourselves some time right now and then try to figure it out moving forward.

SIDNER: Yeah. It's been such a difficult, awful, long slog of a war.

Major Gen. James "Spider" Marks, it is a pleasure to have you analyzing all of this for us this morning -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So the Texas Hill Country got drenched overnight. Around 10 inches of rain soaking parts of Central Texas in just about 24 hours. Take a look at this video. You see what happens as a result. Dangerous flooding and dangerous conditions, and the threat not yet over.

CNN's meteorologist Derek Van Dam tracking this one for us. Good morning, Derek. What is happening over there?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yeah, good morning, Kate.

So this area still reeling from the Texas floods earlier this year and this is the last thing that people need right now. And unfortunately, our worst fears came to fruition yesterday when we saw nine inches of rain fall on the western portions of the Hill Country.

This is kind of a scene that resulted. Unfortunately, the roads turned into rivers and very difficult travel conditions. But the conditions will start to improve through the course of the morning as that system moves out of the Hill Country of Texas.

So here it is kind of departing the region. But we're not out of the woods just yet because another developing storm system here across Southern California, which is currently prompting flash flood warnings in and around Ventura and Los Angeles counties -- these areas near the Palisades -- fire burn scars. You can see the flash flood warnings inclusive of Los Angeles. So heads up Beverly Hills down to the coastline near Malibu. This area could produce a quick one to two inches of rain, but the burn scars are so vulnerable for mudslides and landslides, so we'll monitor that.

But the progression of the storm moves eastward across the Texas Hill Country come Sunday and into Monday. That's why the Weather Prediction Center has what's a level two of four. That's a slight risk of excessive rain that could lead to flash flooding. You can see this. Wichita Falls, San Angelo, into Waco, including the Hill Country. And then it kind of moves a little bit further east into the southern Mississippi Valley.

So this storm is not done just yet. We've got days of rain coming after the weekend. And, of course, the big travel holiday week next week as we look forward to Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and the leadup to Thanksgiving -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. But you know -- I mean, people are already looking to start traveling right now --

VAN DAM: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: -- so this is already impacting some of that travel.

VAN DAM: I've got my flights booked.

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

It's great to see you, Derek. Thank you so much.

VAN DAM: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: A lot to watch for -- John.

BERMAN: All right. The mother of a child missing now for more than 40 days -- that mother is free this morning after a judge dismissed a false imprisonment charge against her.

Let's get to CNN's Jean Casarez for the latest. A lot going on there.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, while Melodee is still missing somewhere out there her mother was in court and she was charged just last week with false imprisonment.

An accuser said that he had known her for some time -- a friend of a friend -- and he'd gone to her house several times to try to help her in any way he could to find Melodee. Well, he alleged, and prosecutors then charged with false imprisonment, including violence -- a felony -- that he was held against his will and could not leave the home.

Now he testified yesterday in this preliminary hearing, and he was like the star witness to testify. He was the accuser. There were not cameras in the courtroom -- however, he had written a statement last week on LinkedIn that he removed. But we've got a portion of the statement we want to read because this would have been his testimony.

He said, "During an interaction at her residence, the situation escalated. Ms. Buzzard became visibly distressed after sharing information she appeared to regret disclosing. A box cutter was produced, and despite multiple requests to be allowed to exit the home, I was not immediately permitted to leave. The door was secured by several locks, which delayed my ability to exit."

[07:45:10]

Well, yesterday, the just determined -- and this is early on in the case. You never even go to the preliminary hearing this early -- that there was no probable cause that there was a crime. And there was an audio recording of that last interaction where he says that he was scared.

BERMAN: Um-hum.

CASAREZ: And the audio -- no video, just audio -- the judge determined the accuser was not in fear at all at that time.

And so she was released. The monitor was taken off. Complaint dismissed. She's a free woman. The question is, where's Melodee?

BERMAN: Yeah. What does this say -- again, the girl is still missing here, and this doesn't get us anywhere closer to finding here.

CASAREZ: You know, listen to the facts. We're not hearing anything, right? We know the FBI is on it. Local law enforcement, state law enforcement -- they are not going to forget this little girl. So something has to be going on.

The last time she was ever seen alive from this road trip that went from Nebraska and back into California -- of course, Melodee was not there when she arrived back in Lompoc. But the last time the little girl was seen was October 9 close to the California-Utah line. October 10 is when the mother got home alone. So we're talking Utah, northern Arizona, Nevada. Those are the areas that have to be the central focus.

BERMAN: A lot of questions here.

Jean Casarez, thank you very much for your reporting -- Sara. SIDNER: All right. Ahead, medical experts sounding the alarm about false vaccine and autism information that now appears on the CDC website. And the new move that could loosen state laws on artificial intelligence. Those stories and more.

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[07:51:08]

BOLDUAN: This morning doctors and scientists are sounding the alarm over a new move by the CDC, quietly changing a key information page on its site about vaccines and autism, essentially pushing out established science and putting in the language of vaccine skeptics.

Now the site states "vaccines do not cause" autism is not an evidence- based claim. And also stating, "Studies supporting a link have been ignored by health authorities."

That is -- this information -- that is despite decades of studies involving millions of children that has shown no link. The CDC site once clearly stated that as well. The unfounded claim though that's being pushed here is one that the HHS secretary has pushed for years.

Now, also adding to the confusion the header -- the headline on the page -- the header says, "Vaccines do not cause autism." So it remains on the site though now with an asterisk -- with a footnote that explains that the header only remains due to an agreement with the chair of the Senate Health Committee.

Now in a statement to CNN, the Department of Health and Human Services says, "We are updating the CDC's website to reflect gold standard, evidence-based science.

Joining me right now is Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. It's good to see you again, Doctor. Thank you for being here.

I just want to read it one more time -- what this -- what it now says -- the now statement on the CDC website. "The claim vaccines do not cause autism is not an evidence-based claim because studies have not ruled out the possibility that infant vaccines cause autism."

Your reaction to this?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA (via Webex by Cisco): Well, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has now weaponized the CDC and its website to promote his fixed, immutable science-resistant belief that vaccines cause autism. It doesn't matter how many studies show he's wrong, he still continues to believe it. So this is what he's done, and I think it's a tremendous disserve to the American public because all it does it confuse them and cause there to be fear where there shouldn't be fear.

BOLDUAN: It's also -- there's this double negative nature to it that is a little challenging to follow, and you've called this out. Like, disproving things the way they're -- the way they're stating seems nearly impossible.

OFFIT: Well, you can never prove never. So, for example, there was concern in the late 1990s that the combination measles-mumps-rubella or MMR vaccine caused autism. So the public health community, the academic community responded by doing 24 separate studies in seven different countries on three different continents involving thousands of thousands of children and costing tens of millions of dollars. And every one of those studies showed that if you got the MMR vaccine you were at no greater risk of autism than if you never got that vaccine -- study after study after study.

But that didn't prove it couldn't happen. You could have done a thousand studies, a million studies. That doesn't prove it couldn't happen because you can never prove never. But I think at this point you can say with confidence that a truth has emerged and that MMR doesn't cause autism.

Essentially what RFK Jr. does is he uses a technicality of the scientific method, which is that you can never prove never and -- just to keep this fear alive, and it's really unfair.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, the dangling out there. We could still -- hasn't -- the one more study or it could because there haven't been four thousand million studies done.

I mentioned how there's the asterisk now in the header and it goes to this footnote that explains that the only reason that the header remains -- it says vaccines don't cause autism -- is in agreement with the chairman of the Senate Health Committee. That chairman is Sen. Bill Cassidy who is also a doctor.

He spoke out after this change and here's part of what he wrote. "I'm a doctor who has seen people die from vaccine-preventable diseases. What parents need to hear right now is vaccines for measles, polio, hepatitis B, and other childhood diseases are safe and effective and will not cause autism. Any statement to the contrary is wrong, irresponsible, and actively makes Americans sicker."

[07:55:15]

I just read this because one, it's important. But also, Bill Cassidy has had quite a journey when it comes to RFK Jr. I mean, he was the decisive voice that got Kennedy confirmed into his position. And now he has, you know -- now he's stating this.

I mean, is there a, I don't know, a role for Bill Cassidy here to play? Is there a role for Congress to play here if they want to rein in misinformation and lies being pushed by the nation's health agency?

OFFIT: Yes. So, Sen. Bill Cassidy was the head of the Health, Education, Labor and Pension Committee, which was the second committee to confirm or not confirm RFK Jr. as Secretary of Health and Human Services. Surprisingly, he voted yes. Given that he knew that RFK Jr. had been an anti-vaccine activist, science denialist, and conspiracy theorist for 20 years he still voted yes. But when he voted yes, he held up a piece of paper and said I will

have, over the next few years, an unprecedently close working relationship with RFK Jr. And he has promised me that he will not essentially change the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, which he did. He promised me that he would keep the current ACIP, which is an advisory committee to the CDC, and keep those recommendations the same, which he didn't do. And he promised me that he wouldn't change the website at which he proceeded to do.

So he keeps crossing these lines that Sen. Cassidy has drawn. And so, Sen. Cassidy could play a role here. I mean, who is going to stand up for children in this country if not the Congress and ask President Trump to have RFK Jr. please step down from this role because of this erosion in faith.

We have now the biggest measles epidemic we've had in more than 30 years. We've had three people die of measles in this country when that equals the total number of measles deaths over the last 25 years. We've had more children die in this country this year of flu -- influenza -- than we've had since the last flu pandemic in 2009. We've had states experiencing whooping cough deaths that hadn't experience whooping cough deaths in years.

And we have Secretary of Health and Human Services who does nothing. He should be standing up and saying vaccinate your children, but he doesn't do that. So who stops him? It's a political problem with only a political solution, and that would be people like Sen. Cassidy standing up for the children of this country.

BOLDUAN: When this isn't a political problem in the slightest. It's a true, real medical health crisis that is beginning to play out.

Dr. Offit, thank you for coming in -- John.

BERMAN: All right. This morning new information after a fire at a climate conference in Brazil. Thirteen people were treated for smoke inhalation yesterday after flames broke out in an area where the summit negotiations take place. Local officials believe electrical equipment -- likely, a microwave -- sparked the fire. Crews were able to put it out in minutes.

A woman on a North Carolina highway was forced to pull over after a cat crashed through her windshield. That, in and of itself, is something. But it turns out the cat was dropped by a bald eagle. The driver called 911, not sure police would believe her story.

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CALLER: You may not believe me, but I just had a bald eagle drop a cat through my windshield. It absolutely shattered my windshield.

911 OPERATOR: I do believe you, honestly.

CALLER: OK. I have a witness. He's like, that is the craziest thing I've ever seen. I'm like, really?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So the North Carolina State Highway Patrol photographed the evidence. The eagle is still at large. The driver was not hurt -- the cat not so much. It's not clear whether the cat was alive or dead before it was dropped.

A vintage, high-grade Superman comic book set a record at auction. Superman #1 from 1939 was sold for a little more than $9 million by Heritage Auctions. The auction house says the comic book was found by three brothers cleaning out the attic of their late mother's home. The comic's closing price makes it the most expensive comic book ever sold at auction, which is why I tell my wife we're never getting rid of any comic books.

SIDNER: Oh boy, here we go. Here we go. All right.

President Trump is renewing his efforts to block states from regulating artificial intelligence.

Our Clare Duffy got a look at a draft of an executive order that calls for a task force to challenge states over AI laws. Clare is here with us now. What have you learned in looking at this draft?

CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: Yeah. So this executive order would try to preempt state AI regulations and replace them with Trump's more, what he calls minimally burdensome federal policy. That is -- it sort of really lacks oversight of this emerging technology. And to do that by directing the attorney general to create this task force that would challenge states over their laws potentially also would revoke federal funding from states that have AI regulation.