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DOJ Vow to Appeal After Judge Dismisses Cases Against Comey And James; New Deadly Russian Strikes On Kyiv As U.S., Russia Hold Peace Talks; Report: FBI Questioned Stepbrother After Cheerleader Found Dead. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired November 25, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The White House, though, says this fight is far from over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This judge took an unprecedented action to throw these cases out to shield James Comey and Letitia James from accountability based on a technical ruling, and the administration disagrees with that technical ruling. And I know the Department of Justice will be appealing this in very short order, so maybe James Comey should pump the brakes on his victory lap.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now is CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig for much more on this. So promising to appeal, that's clear. What could happen now though, Elie?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Well Kate, the Justice Department is going to try to pick itself up off the canvas and get back in this fight. They have two options actually available.

First, as you just heard, they will appeal. They have the right to do that. The appeal would go to the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals.

Now on the one hand, if you read the judge's rulings yesterday dismissing the Comey and James cases, they seem quite sound. The judge cites precedent. The judge takes a careful look at the language in the law. However, on the other hand, the judge yesterday did say that the law that she relied on is "ambiguous."

So there will be a reasonable argument to make on appeal. I think it's probably an uphill climb for DOJ.

The other thing that DOJ can do here because the judge dismissed these cases without prejudice, DOJ can try to go back to a grand jury with a properly installed prosecutor and reindict the cases. However, the problem is, first of all, if they do that, then they probably can't appeal because they've mooted their appeal and then they're stuck with this lousy decision that they don't like.

Second of all, not clear that a grand jury would reindict these cases. Remember, a grand jury barely indicted Jim Comey. They threw out one of the cases and they barely approved the other two counts.

So it's going to be an uphill climb. Those are the two options available to DOJ now.

BOLDUAN: And Elie, in dismissing the cases the judge mentioned an earlier case -- the earlier case against Donald Trump -- citing that. The case that was overseen by Judge Aileen Cannon.

How and why did this come into play here?

HONIG: Yeah, a little twist of the knife there from the judge. So the judge said well, let's look back last year. You might remember that federal judge Aileen Cannon, down in Florida, threw out Jack Smith's case against Donald Trump for classified documents at Mar-a-Lago because Judge Cannon found that Jack Smith was improperly appointed as the prosecutor -- as the special counsel.

And so this judge here said it's not exactly on point. Jack Smith was in a little bit of a different constitutional scenario. But the judge said look, I find Lindsey Halligan was improperly appointed as this prosecutor, hence the same result. Hence, the indictment has to get thrown out.

BOLDUAN: Is there a statute of limitations problem now with either of these cases because Comey's was years ago?

HONIG: Yeah. Another problem, Kate, if they do try to go the reindictment route.

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

HONIG: So there's not a problem with Letitia James in terms -- with respect to the statute of limitations because her alleged conduct, mortgage fraud, allegedly went into 2024. You generally have five years from the end of the conduct to indict the case.

But Jim Comey's alleged false testimony was given on September 30, 2020, meaning they had until September 30, 2025 to indict him. They did indict him five days before that but now here we are two months after that. So there could be a major problem if they try to reindict him. They're probably outside that five-year period.

There is a way they might try to extend that period but again, I don't think they're on good legal footing there. So they could have a practical problem with the amount of time that's passed.

BOLDUAN: Hmm, fascinating.

Elie, thank you so much -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. This morning we have a look at the president's schedule for the day. First thing, he will pardon two turkeys. After that he's going to go to Florida for Thanksgiving.

But what we don't expect to see, health care plan. We were told we could see one as early as yesterday. The White House really even floated specifics in the proposal then late yesterday said nope, not coming. We don't know when.

The clock is ticking as more than 20 million Americans enrolled in the Affordable Care Act brace for premiums to soar when enhanced subsidies expire on December 31.

With us now Democratic strategist Ameshia Cross, and Republican strategist Neil Chatterjee.

And what was so remarkable is we led with this yesterday because the White House was floating it was about to happen. Neil, we even had the details -- the two-year extension of the Obamacare subsidies with a cap on incomes at 700 percent of the poverty level. And then late yesterday they got cold feet.

And Punchbowl describes it this way. "By Monday morning, the White House was preparing to unveil the proposal before eventually backtracking amid resistance from conservatives and a general sense among Republicans that the White House was mismanaging the issue. It's now unclear when -- or even whether -- the plan could see the light of day."

The Wall Street Journal even said that Mike Johnson cautioned the White House that there was no appetite among Republicans for extending the subsidies.

So what's going on here? How did the White House maybe, Neil, misjudge what they could do with Republicans in Congress?

NEIL CHATTERJEE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION (FERC): Look, Republicans writ large have been struggling with this really since kind of 2009, 2010 when the Affordable Care Act was first moved in Congress.

[07:35:00]

And look, I was an aide in the Senate at the time and while Republicans vigorously opposed the legislation, I think they understood that were it to be enacted, once you conferred that benefit upon the American people it would be tough to take away. And look, I was on the Senate floor in 2017 when John McCain famously was the decisive vote with his thumbs down to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act.

And Republicans have been struggling to come up with a plan since these subsidies were put into place at the height of the pandemic. Democrats had set them to expire but now you're seeing the political ramifications of skyrocketing premiums.

Republicans are really struggling with this and have been for years, so it's not a surprise to me that this kind of rushed plan didn't come together. And once Republicans in the House caught wind of the details raised concerns.

BERMAN: Yeah. And Ameshia, when it was being floated, Democrats were somewhat receptive. Jeanne Shaheen, the senator from New Hampshire, who we're going to talk to in a little bit, said there was some stuff in there basically that sounded OK. We were speaking to Democrats on this show who said a two-year extension, even with the limitations there, sounded good.

What do you think Democrats do now?

AMESHIA CROSS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN ADVISER: I think Democrats message the hell out of what we're seeing. This is an administration that was not in good faith when it came to not only these negotiations, but I think that we were never going to see a health care plan in the same way we're never going to see that October jobs report.

You have to be honest with the American people and right now they're seeing their premiums go up, whether they are Obamacare recipients or whether they are in the general market because those individuals were actually paying to offset the cost of Obamacare anyway.

What we're seeing time and time again is an administration that recognizes that health care is a topline issue but one that has not figured out a way -- and honestly, I don't think really cares to find a way -- that allows for hundreds of thousands of Americans who otherwise would not be able to afford health insurance to be able to have that marketplace.

With that being said, they have also worked to dismantle the ACA since it got enacted and never had a plan to replace it. And I think that this is more of the same. There was never a full faith effort to make sure that Americans were covered.

And I think that what we've seen with the one big, beautiful bill act -- which further threatens health insurance coverage across this country and who has access to it -- the administration has signaled time and again who they care about and who they do not. If you are not a part of the wealthy yacht class, then you're basically just out in the cold.

BERMAN: Ukraine, at this moment, is fighting for its survival. There are negotiations going on, we are told, in Abu Dhabi between U.S. and Russian officials. The Secretary of the Army Dan Driscoll, a good friend of JD Vance, has been intimately involved. And again, there is absolutely a survival issue for Ukraine.

Neil, there's also a political issue in the United States for Republicans heading into 2028. As I said, Dan Driscoll, an ally of JD Vance. Marco Rubio, another possible contender, the Secretary of State, for president in 2028. And it's not clear whether JD Vance and Marco Rubio are in the same place here.

JD Vance, yesterday on social media, sort of out of nowhere had this post where he's talking about all the problems facing the United States. And he says, "But you know what really fires up the beltway GOP? Not

any of the above." Those issues that he thinks are problematic for the country. "Instead, the political class is really angry that the Trump administration may finally bring a four-year conflict in Eastern Europe to a close. But the level of passion over this one issue when your own country has serious problems is bonkers. It disgusts me. Show some passion for your own country."

That's Vice President Vance who perhaps was more favorable toward that 28 plan that made huge concessions to Russia. Then what Marco Rubio seems to have negotiated, which was a serious pullback from that, Neil.

What do you see going on here?

CHATTERJEE: Yeah. Look, Marco Rubio, from the time he was in the Senate on the Senate Intelligence Committee, you know, has been a Russia hawk. But now that he's taken a role in the administration -- he's Secretary of State and he's a national security adviser -- he is the key negotiator on this.

And I think he is trying to thread the needle to achieve what JD Vance -- Vice President Vance indicated was President Trump's ability to bring an end to this conflict in Ukraine. To stop the bloodshed. But to do so in a way that recognizes that Russia is a threat. That Russia is an adversary.

And I think of Secretary Rubio is able to pull this off I think he can demonstrate competence and negotiating success while at the same time not alienating the MAGA base.

I will say at this moment, though, I think Vice President Vance probably is more reflective of where the base is than Secretary of State Rubio. But if Secretary of State Rubio can land this and actually bring an end to the conflict, I think the tables may turn on this dynamic.

[07:40:00]

BERMAN: Ameshia, very quickly, where are Democrats on this?

CROSS: Well, I think that Secretary of State Rubio has been very -- he's been very hawkish in the past when it comes to Russia. There is a lot of light between him and Trump and the MAGA base around Russia.

But I think that Democrats -- in large part, they want to see a Ukraine that is actually -- that respective of its democracy, one in which we do not have a president who basically lays down the shield and allows for democracy to be overtaken but is also still very uncomfortable with Donald Trump's coziness with Vladimir Putin. We all know that exists. He's showcased it more than a few times. He fashions himself after him and other dictators.

And at this point, I think that a deal, be it one that lasts -- be mindful we've seen across the Middle East how bad it has failed this administration -- we want to see one happen. But on that same token one that includes very strict parameters that does not allow Putin to do what he ultimately wants to do, rebuild Mother Russia.

BERMAN: Ameshia Cross, Neil Chatterjee, thanks to both of you. Have a great Thanksgiving -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

Breaking overnight, Russia and Ukraine trading deadly new strikes even as talks over the U.S.-proposed plan to end the war move forward. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Russia launched a missile and drone assault that caused extensive damage in Kyiv and left at least seven people dead in the nation's capital. And Russia says a major drone attack by Ukraine killed at least three people there.

It comes as U.S. and Russian officials are expected to continue peace talks today in Abu Dhabi.

Joining me now is Inna Sovsun, a member of Ukraine's Parliament. Thank you so much for being here in these just difficult, difficult circumstances that you've been going through for so many years now.

I just have a quick question because we're seeing some reporting on some movement here. Has Ukraine agreed to the newly revised plan?

INNA SOVSUN, MEMBER OF UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT (via Webex by Cisco): Well, Ukraine has been developing this plan together with the Americans and with -- and with the help of the European allies. So we wouldn't say agreed. Our understanding is that there is a plan that might be acceptable.

The big question is will the Russian side also be willing to accept this and what are the security guarantees that can be provided in addition to that peace plan because without security guarantees that is really not going to be smart on our side to accept any sort of deal if the war might erupt any moment after that. So I think there is an ongoing debate as of yet.

SIDNER: Yeah. So you haven't learned that there is an actual agreement on the newly revised plan that was worked out over the last couple of days.

SOVSUN: No. Our understanding is that Ukraine has involved in the -- in the discussions. We have voiced our concerns about the 28-point plan. We have reviewed it. There is basically a new plan, but the major decisions are yet to be discussed.

So the negotiation team that was -- that was there in Geneva over the weekend -- they basically decided on some issues with the Americans, explained Ukraine's position. but the negotiation team didn't have the mandate to discuss the issues, for instance, related to the territory, which is -- which if, of course, very critical in this discussion. That is to be left for discussion between the leaders of the state.

So even with the plan that has been developed in Geneva over the weekend there are still, you know, some sorts (PH) which are yet to be decided. But the biggest issue here still is not so much Ukraine's position.

Ukraine is willing to negotiate to stop this nightmare we're living in. The biggest question is if Russia is ready to move away from -- you know, from some of their demands. If they would be willing to compromise, at least, on anything, and we have not seen that as of yet. And we have not seen the strong enough pressure on Russia to do so.

Like, what is pressure in Russia now to do anything? Well, they are pressuring Ukraine. The attack over this night was terrifying. Again, seven people killed in Kyiv. The majority of the city doesn't have heating or electricity or water right now since the very morning. They are pressuring on the east.

They are not feeling the pressure from the U.S. in terms of sanctions. They are not feeling pressure from the EU in terms of seizing their foreign -- their sovereign assets. So at the moment, the biggest question is who is pressuring Russia to accept any -- you know, any compromise? We only see pressure on ourselves.

SIDNER: Can I just ask you one thing about the original U.S. plan, which forced Ukraine to limit the size of its military? It forced it to have elections immediately after the ceasefire. It kept it from joining NATO. And forced Ukraine to give up territory that Russia does not occupy at this time in exchange for some security guarantees.

Without knowing all the details, I mean, what are the red lines -- the absolute red lines that you expect Ukraine will not cross?

[07:45:00]

SOVSUN: Well, the cap on the size of the military is critical because look, even with the security guarantees, which are yet to be decided -- that issue has not been discussed and we don't have details of the potential security guarantees as of yet -- we understand that in case of an attack we need to have a strong military to defend ourselves.

We don't want to end up in a situation where we all woke up on February 24, 2002, where we didn't have the army to protect ourselves. That is scary. I don't want to live through that again. And that is why it's up for us to decide how we can defend ourselves.

We cannot leave ourselves vulnerable in case of future attacks, especially when we don't have any guarantees that attack will not happen. And we don't have any of those guarantees as of right now. So security first. No caps on the size of the Ukrainian military because it's for us to decide. It's our sovereign right to decide how we're going to defend ourselves.

Another issue with the plan is that altogether, this plan is only basically punishing the country that has been the victim of this aggression, setting up limitations on our -- on our sovereign rights and our right to defend -- to defend ourselves and our right to decide on our foreign policy by limiting our right to join NATO.

It's limiting our ability to decide on our internal policy with education and language issues. It's unacceptable why we are being forced into a deal which is basically taking away part of our sovereignty, which is unacceptable. And at the same time, Russia is not getting, you know, any punishment for what they have done.

What the deal suggests, furthermore, that there will be an exemption from -- you know, from using the international humanitarian law and prosecuting those who committed the war crimes. That's not justice. That's giving in to Russian demands. That's not making American great. That's making Russia great and weakening the Western interests altogether and undermining Ukraine's sovereignty which is, of course, the major issue to me because I don't want to end up living in an insecure gray zone with no security guarantees. No future in sight --

SIDNER: Inna Sovsun --

SOVSUN: -- for me and my family.

SIDNER: Yeah. Inna Sovsun, thank you so much for talking us through this. I really do appreciate it -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: So Thanksgiving travel is in full swing right now. Millions of people are expected to hit the roads, of course, and depending on where you live and where you're headed that road trip may be a bit more pricey. For the first time since the start of President Trump's second term the difference between this year's gas prices and last year's has effectively disappeared.

CNN's Matt Egan is tracking this one for you. So what are prices looking like?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well Kate, when the White House is asked about affordability, they often point to how much cheaper gasoline is --

BOLDUAN: They always point to the gas prices.

EGAN: Always. How much cheaper it is under President Trump versus former President Biden. And that was a legitimate bragging point really all year. Like, gas prices were 30, 40, 50 cents cheaper year- over-year. But as you mentioned, that discount -- really for the first time since late January, that discount has completely disappeared.

Gas prices are almost exactly where they were a year ago to the fraction of a penny. Look at that -- $3.055 the national average, according to AAA today. A year ago, $3.056. So right back to where they started. In fact, today breaks a streak -- breaks a streak where eight days in a row gas prices have actually been higher this year than last year on a year-over-year basis.

Now, none of this is to say gas prices are expensive, right?

BOLDUAN: Right.

EGAN: They're not. They're still relatively low.

In fact, GasBuddy is projecting that the national average on Thanksgiving Day will be $3.02 a gallon. That is well below the spike three years ago above $3.50. In fact, that's tied with last year for the cheapest since COVID-19.

Now, the White House really does make it sound often like under former President Biden gas prices were just through the roof, right, the whole time, and that under Trump they're dirt cheap. But that's just really not the case, right? This is another example of how there's a kind of a disconnect, right, between the rhetoric on prices and the reality.

And voters are picking up on this. There's a CBS poll out that shows that only 27 percent say that President Trump -- when he's talking about prices and inflation, he makes things sound about as they really are, right, far more. Sixty percent say that the president makes it sound like things are better than they really are.

And look, it's one thing to embellish kind of obscure things like how many trillions of dollars of investment the United States has gotten from other countries. But it's another thing altogether to tell people not to believe the prices that they're seeing every day at the grocery store or, in this case, at the gas station.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. There's a difference between optimism and looking at the reality of right now.

EGAN: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: Great to see you, Matt. Thank you.

EGAN: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Sara.

SIDNER: All right.

[07:50:00]

Ahead, new details in the deadly mystery. The body of a teenager on a cruise with her family is found concealed under the mattress in her cabin. Her distraught grandparents reveal what the FBI is telling them about the case.

Also, the heart-pounding moment an officer runs into a Walmart to save a choking baby.

(COMMERCIAL)

BERMAN: All right. New details this morning in the death of an 18- year-old high school cheerleader on a Carnival cruise ship. Anna Kepner's body was found under a bed in her cabin on the ship earlier this month. Her grandparents tell ABC News she may have died from asphyxiation and that the FBI has questioned Kepner's 16-year-old stepbrother. They say Anna had been sharing the stateroom with him and her brother.

Let's get right to CNN's Isabel Rosales for the latest on this. What are you learning this morning, Isabel?

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, good morning.

[07:55:00]

This is the first time we're hearing directly from Anna Kepner's family. They had an interview with ABC News. And her grandparents recalled the last time that they saw her alive, stating this this high school cheerleader joined them in the Carnival Horizon's casino. And then hours before she died, she told the family that she loved them and ultimately left for her room that she shared with her brother and her stepbrother.

Now, the next day they knew that something was wrong when they heard a medical alert blasting throughout the ship announcing their room number. Ultimately, a steward found her body, they say, concealed underneath the bed. The family also telling ABC News that there were no signs of sexual assault and no signs of drugs or alcohol in her system.

And in court documents in a separate unrelated custody case, Anna's stepmother indicated that her 16-year-old stepbrother was a suspect in this death investigation.

Here is Barbara Kepner, the victim's grandmother -- what she had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA KEPNER, ANNA KEPNER'S GRANDMOTHER: He was the only one seen coming and going. So I can't -- I can't accuse him because I don't know what happened in that room, but the summation would be that he did something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: No criminal charges have been filed. The Miami-Dade Medical Examiner's Office has not released her cause of death or her manner of death. I also reached out to the FBI and her family. Both declined to comment -- John.

BERMAN: Obviously, a tragedy. Much more information to come here.

Isabel Rosales, thank you very much -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right.

This morning, dramatic moments on a Michigan police officer's body camera as he rushes in to save a choking infant. Officer Edwar Talia can be seen racing into a Walmart there. He's heading towards a mom and her 5-month-old baby who is choking. And just as Officer Talia arrives, the mom says the baby stopped breathing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWAR TALIA, OFFICER, STERLING HEIGHTS POLICE DEPARTMENT: And then took a deep breath. As soon as he took a deep breath he started, like, having the hiccups. And I know once a baby gets, you know, hiccups they need -- they need to burp, you know? So I grabbed the baby -- I grabbed baby Jamison and put him over my shoulder and started patting his back, and then he actually fell asleep on me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Oh, how sweet. Officer Talia says he had just renewed his CPR training, thank goodness, just a week before this incident where he saved that child.

All right -- this story is mind-blowing. A woman in Thailand who was thought to be dead and was being taken for cremation was actually found alive inside her coffin. Staff at a Thai temple say they heard a faint knocking coming from inside the coffin. They opened the lid and saw the 65-year-old moving her eyes and arms. Her brother said she'd been bedridden for two years and he thought she'd stopped breathing and died. The woman was rushed to a nearby hospital -- you see there. There is no word on her condition this morning.

And a new world record deep dive without using fins. Ukrainian free diver won the No Fins freediving competition reaching nearly 300 feet deep, all on one single breath. Almost as impressive as that depth. The single breath was held for three minutes, 32 seconds. The No Fins event is what many consider the toughest freediving competition. Pretty incredible -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Freediving is such an amazing sport --

SIDNER: And cool.

BOLDUAN: -- and obviously so dangerous, but what amazing athletes --

SIDNER: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: -- they are. God, it's gorgeous.

Let's turn to this right now. Some high-profile voices on social media who identify themselves as American First may not be coming from America at all. There's new reporting on a new location feature on X, formerly known as Twitter, that shows many accounts with high engagement about U.S. politics aren't actually based in the United States, including accounts considered top MAGA influencers.

CNN's Hadas Gold explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): The X account MAGA Nation, with nearly 400,000 followers, boasts itself as standing strong with President Trump and America First with post after post backing Trump. But one click shows it's based in Eastern Europe. One of its most popular posts about the Epstein files has been viewed 1.9 million times.

It's just one of a number of popular political accounts, mainly pro- Trump, outed when Elon Musk's X rolled out a new feature that shows where accounts are actually located from Russia to Nigeria. Dozens of accounts revealed to be based outside of the United States.

Another, this account named America First, featuring the image of White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt -- it's operated by someone based in Bangladesh, posting things like this image saying President Trump "will go down in history as the greatest president of all time!"

Even President Trump himself reposting several accounts that are not from the United States on his Truth Social platform, like this account called Commentary Donald Trump, posting about whether foreign-born citizens should be barred from running for office. The account itself based in Africa.

The revelations bringing back memories of 2016 when Russian state-run networks of fake accounts and bogus online personas tried to influence that year's election by boosting Trump.

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It's going to get worse before it gets better. And bad cyber actors, all the time, are more and more ingenious, more tenacious, and more aggressive.