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Record Holiday Travel; Consumer Confidence Falls; Ukraine Asks For Zelenskyy-Trump Meeting. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 25, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN HOST: And what's the future after Trump? What does that look like?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Right.

CORNISH: Who leads that? Who are the voices?

(CROSSTALK)

ZELENY: Which is starting out earlier than anyone really thought.

CORNISH: Of course.

All right, thank you so much, Jeff. That was a wonderful piece.

Thank you for joining INSIDE POLITICS.

"CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts with the headlines in just a moment.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Hammering out a peace deal. Ukraine wants a meeting between President Zelenskyy and President Trump. What is the Kremlin on the same page? We're going to speak with a Ukrainian negotiator involved in the discussions.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: A dark mood ahead of Black Friday, as new data shows consumer confidence is down, with concerns about the economy growing for a lot of Americans out there. We're going to dig into the numbers.

And if you're hitting the roads, you're headed to the airport, listen, you're not alone. Millions of your fellow Americans are joining you on that endeavor. The latest on one of the busiest travel days of the year.

We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: We start this hour with a potentially pivotal moment for the war in Ukraine. We have learned that Kyiv is asking for a meeting over the next few days between President Donald Trump and President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to finalize the details of a peace deal. This comes as a U.S. official says Ukraine is on board with a peace

plan with only -- quote -- "minor details outstanding." To be clear, we don't know the details of this potential agreement, but, according to Axios, it has been heavily modified from the original 28-point plan that the Trump administration presented.

DEAN: So, at the start of these talks, the European Union laid out several red lines for negotiations. Ukraine's borders could not be changed by force. Limits to Ukraine's military cannot leave them vulnerable to another attack. And Ukraine must have the right to choose its own destiny, especially when it comes to possible NATO membership at some point in the future.

CNN's chief global affairs correspondent Matthew Chance is joining us now from London.

And, Matthew, we understand you have some brand-new reporting about all of this. What are you learning?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right.

I mean, all for the past couple of days. I have been in Geneva covering these intensive negotiations that have been under way between the United States and Ukraine and the Europeans as well trying to hammer out a common position. And all along, the U.S. officials, Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, others are characterizing this as -- they're saying that they have been very synchronized, they're in step, but there are some minor issues that need to be resolved.

Well, I have just spoken to a senior Ukrainian source very close to those negotiations. And he's set out for me the fact that there are some key areas where the wording is not being finalized and there's not even an agreement in principle.

Let's go through some of them. They're the core issues in this proposal. First of all, the issue of whether or not Ukraine will surrender territory, this source telling me that's something that's been obviously discussed very closely. Progress has been made in terms of whether or not -- the proposal demanding Ukraine to hand over territory that has been annexed by Russia, but not yet conquered, but no final decision on that crucial point has yet been made.

He said -- the source said it would be made ultimately by the Ukrainian president. The issue of the military limitations that the proposals would place on Ukraine, the figure mentioned in the 28-point proposal which was floated a couple of days ago was 600,000 people in the Ukrainian armed forces after the peace deal has been done, if it's ever done.

Ukraine said -- the Ukrainian source that I spoke to said there has been a change in that figure, but the Ukrainians still want it changed further, and so negotiations are ongoing on that crucial issue as well. And then one of the other core sort of sticking points, if you like, is that issue of NATO membership. Ukraine is being called on to renounce any future aspirations to join

the Western military alliance. The source, the Ukrainian source that I just spoke to said that Ukraine has rejected that demand for it to renounce its future aspirations to join NATO.

So, that's a big obstacle as well. And when you take all these things together, there may be agreement on some of the other issues. In fact, the Ukrainian source that I spoke to said there had been good progress on lots of issues.

When you look at these core issues, that's going to be a big problem if they're going to find a common ground, a common position with the United States and the Europeans. And it's going to be very difficult, if they do find that common ground, for the Russians to accept a rejection on these points by Ukraine -- Boris, Jessica.

[13:05:08]

SANCHEZ: Yes, that remains the open question in all of this, whether the Kremlin is actually going to see eye to eye with Ukraine's demands on this.

Matthew Chance, thank you so much for that reporting.

Let's discuss with former Defense Secretary and former CIA Director Leon Panetta.

Secretary, thanks for being with us.

Do you think Russia would agree to a peace deal that does not include territorial concessions beyond where the lines are right now of conflict?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, Russia has made that clear.

And, at the same time, Ukraine has made clear that they are not simply going to hand territory over to the Russians to reward them for the invasion. So it remains, as far as I can see, an area of dispute, because Ukraine, because of its Constitution and its requirement that it not give up any territory, makes it difficult for Ukraine to simply hand that territory over to Russia.

And that's kind of a bottom line for Russia. So this may be still a very difficult negotiation to be able to get through.

SANCHEZ: It seems like another point that there is clear disagreement on is the question of NATO.

Kyiv has, as we just heard Matthew Chance report, rejected essentially calls from Russia for it to give up the aspiration of joining NATO. And Russia sees that as a red line as well. How do you see that being negotiated out, if it's such a clear night and day between the two positions?

PANETTA: Well, NATO obviously has its own rules that apply to NATO. And to basically say that NATO ought not to seek additional members, I

think, is difficult to implement here. And so probably the best way to deal with this is for Ukraine to indicate at this point that it's not going to seek membership; rather, it's going to join the European Union, which probably makes more sense at this point.

So I think this is a nuanced issue that I think you can find a way to deal with that could be acceptable. Look, the basic problem here right now is that the initial plan represented all of the Russian positions. And Ukraine has pushed back on these provisions in these negotiations, which I think makes sense.

You don't want to achieve peace through surrender. But what it means is that it's going to be difficult to get Russia now to agree to these changes. And so we're a long way from nailing any kind of peace negotiation down.

SANCHEZ: Yes, Russia has also been reticent to agree to any kind of cease-fire, which is notable, given what we have heard from sources on the administration side that, in part, that even the original 28-point plan was inspired by the peace deal brokered in Gaza, phase one of which was a cease-fire.

Do you think one is necessary to get the details across the finish line?

PANETTA: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

You cannot have Russia bombing the hell out of Ukraine while these negotiations are going on. They're killing innocent men, women and children. And they continue to do that. And so, ultimately, look, Russia's got to give something here. And that -- the plan that was presented represents all of their talking points.

The administration has said, we need a cease-fire, and made clear to Russia that, if they didn't agree to a cease-fire, that they would pay -- that there were consequences that would be paid. The United States hasn't provided any consequences.

So the reality is, the president's leaned on Zelenskyy, but he has yet to lean on Putin to give us something here in order to promote peace. That's where the effort has to focus, is on the president now leaning on Putin to basically make some kind of proposal that can further the effort to negotiations. And that is a cease-fire.

Without a cease-fire, I don't see this negotiation going anywhere.

SANCHEZ: Well, we will see if the U.S. posture and the leaning, as you describe it, on Putin perhaps becomes part of the equation.

Leon Panetta, thank you so much for the expertise.

PANETTA: Good to be with you.

[13:10:00] SANCHEZ: Still to come: Inflation numbers out today, just in time for Black Friday, and they tell us who's actually paying the price for the president's tariffs.

And now we have bodycam footage of the moment police found the Slender Man stabber after she cut off her ankle monitor and fled a group home, going on the run for days. Hear what she told police about her past.

DEAN: And a little bit later: French police detain four additional suspects in connection with the Louvre heist, but are investigators closer to finding the stolen crown jewels, which are still missing?

These stories and more all coming up this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:15:00]

DEAN: Today, key economic data delayed by the government shutdown is pouring in and shedding some new light on the state of the U.S. economy.

So, first off, us wholesale inflation did heat up between August and September, rising by 0.3 percent. That was actually as expected. It is an uptick from the prior month, where prices were actually down by 0.1 percent. A separate report shows retail sales growing more slowly than expected in September, as Americans continue to face higher costs.

And a new survey shows consumer confidence declining sharply this month to the lowest level since April. And that's when President Trump unveiled his sweeping tariffs. The survey also showing growing pessimism among respondents about job availability and income prospects over the next six months.

Let's bring in Jerry Storch. He joins us now. He's the former CEO of Toys 'R' Us and former vice chairman of Target. He's currently the CEO of Storch Advisors.

Jerry, nice to see you as we get ready for Thanksgiving here and we prepare for Black Friday after that, holiday shopping. We're getting this new economic data. How do you view our current economic status?

GERALD STORCH, FOUNDER AND CEO, STORCH ADVISORS: Look, I -- there's nothing surprising in any of this data. It's actually quite consistent with what was expected, as you pointed out, and also with the months before.

So the inflation rate is sort of intractable at this high 2's, whatever metric you use, 2.5 to 3 percent inflation, higher than the 2 percent everybody wants. The retail consumer keeps spending. I mean, this 4.3 percent increase in retail sales year over year that we saw is actually pretty good number.

So they have been spending throughout all of this. None of that's really the story, though. People talk about, oh, a 10th here, a 10th there, a 10th there, a 10th there. The real problem, when you talk to consumers and try to understand the problem for policymakers, it's that you have this huge burden from since the pandemic again where prices have increased in aggregate over 25 percent.

And now you keep adding to that kind of predictably a little bit more than what we want, close to that 3 percent. And the consumer is going, when do I get a break? And the reality is, there's no break coming. It's exactly where it's been for a very long time and it doesn't seem to be moving very much in any direction.

So you don't get to go -- even when inflation rate is lower, you don't get anything back from all that increase that you have had over year after year after year after year, including this year.

DEAN: Yes.

There's a lot of talk about this K-shaped economy. So it kind of goes like this, with the wealthiest in the country continuing to do quite well, getting wealthier, spending at these very high rates. Lower- incomes Americans -- income Americans continuing to fare worse and not spending as much.

How much of an impact does that have to our current economic situation and also what we might see this holiday season?

STORCH: Sure.

You know, first of all, again, if you want to bet against the American consumer during holiday season, you're making a fool's errand, fool's bet.

(LAUGHTER)

STORCH: I think it's going to be pretty good -- it's going to be a pretty good season.

The credit card data we're seeing, which is real-time data, still shows a growth year after year of 4 percent to 6 percent, based on what you're talking about. And that's what we have seen in the retail sales data, even way back to September, which is what came out today. So I think it's going to be an OK holiday season.

There is this difference between the wealthy and not-so-wealthy people. I don't think it's a K. People talk about K, implies one branch is going up, the other branch is going down. It's more like a tree, where branches are growing at different rates.

So what you see is a wealthy, they have a lot of extra money. The stock market's on fire. So they're spending on whatever they want. They're doing just great. Now, people who are lower-income, they may not have so much of a gain in the stock market. They have to spend more of their -- what they're earning on necessity.

So you see food continuing to do well, necessities. You see Walmart doing very well. So, necessity, it's not so much fun. But you're still going to buy Christmas presents. It's just not going to be as much fun. You know, it's not going to be as great. And again more and more and more just goes to feed the family.

And so it's not really a K. Even the lower-income segments are still growing. It's kind of interesting. And they may be growing a little bit more than their wages, but they're not making a lot of progress when inflation is still in this high 2.5 to 3 percent range.

DEAN: And there's also this issue. One metric we like to talk about, gas prices. This gas price discount that from year to year that's been President -- since President Trump began his second term, and that's been a great -- they have really talked about that a lot and have been able to because that was showing up in the data.

But it's now vanished. Again, when you're talking about how people just view the economy kind of in their gut, when gas starts to tick up, how might that impact people's view of their economic situation?

STORCH: Well, you're right. I mean, gas is very important. And, by the way, that was the biggest single contributor to the increase in the Producer Price Index that you were talking about earlier was the change in gas prices year over year, which is a totally different issue from the tariffs or from anything else going on.

DEAN: Right.

STORCH: But, again, I want to emphasize what all this shows is just how difficult this problem is.

The intractable nature of it is that you have this huge load of the 25 percent increase in prices, plus continuing gains in other prices. And so it's not going to be enough, not for the administration, not for policymakers of any sort to say, well, I have lowered the rate of inflation.

[13:20:06]

The consumer is saying, are you going to lower prices in absolute terms, not the rate of price increase? And the answer -- and that's a whole lot harder to do. And that's why you see all this discussion of rebates or different actions that might actually result in some kind of true savings for consumers, because that's a different kettle of fish from saying, I will lower the pace of increase of what's happening.

DEAN: And we also saw these consumer confidence levels falling. It's now at its lowest level in seven months since that April announcement of the tariffs by the president. What does that tell you?

STORCH: Well, there are two things that are in there. One is what we're talking about, this affordability issue, which is obviously becoming more and more center stage.

The second area, you have got to be a little bit careful. Even the Conference Board that put up the data today, they said a lot of times that, when they did the polling, people were mentioning the government shutdown, which was in place while they're doing some of this polling. So the government shutdown didn't win any friends among the public in

general. They thought, my gosh, everybody's all messed up. They can't even come to an agreement on this thing. And so that shot consumer confidence pretty badly while it's occurring. Now that it's over, I think the consumer is going to forget that and remember the holidays.

So I wouldn't put too much of a store in that, but I think the affordability issue is here to stay.

DEAN: All right, Jerry Storch, good to see you. Thanks so much.

STORCH: My pleasure.

DEAN: And up next: Today is officially the busiest 24 hours for flights this holiday week, and already at least one air traffic control tower has had to be evacuated due to storms. We will have an update for you on that.

Plus: the moment a tornado forms near Houston and tears through a stretch of homes. Miraculously, no one was killed with this.

Stay with CNN.

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[13:26:20]

SANCHEZ: Today is not only the busiest day for air travel of this holiday week, but the FAA says it's also one of the busiest Thanksgiving travel days of the last 15 years.

The agency says more than 52,000 flights are scheduled today, though some nasty weather has disrupted many of those trips.

DEAN: Man, you guys really want to get out, don't you? Driving may offer its own hassles, but many roads are expected to be jam-packed, AAA saying a record-breaking number of Americans are traveling more than 50 miles for the holiday.

And CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean is there, his second home at Reagan National Airport in D.C.

(LAUGHTER)

DEAN: Pete, I'm going there in about four hours. I'll be looking for you. How are things looking so far?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: You got to come by the Terminal 2 North checkpoint to say hello.

DEAN: I will.

MUNTEAN: All my fans come through here.

(LAUGHTER)

DEAN: I'd be honored.

MUNTEAN: And we had CNN, Haley Britzky here earlier, and she went through the TSA checkpoint.

I said: "Get your phone out and time it." I wanted to see how long it would take her to get through the checkpoint here. She says, just under eight minutes. The airport, though, says it's taking people about five minutes to get through PreCheck and standard screening here at the airport.

It's a pretty smooth day so far, at least here at DCA, although there's a little bit of weather coming into the East Coast. It's going to impact some things later on. According to the Federal Aviation Administration, we could see a ground stop here, ground stops in Philadelphia, also a ground stop at the big three New York airports, Newark, La Guardia and JFK, also departure delays right now in O'Hare.

So for those 52,000 flights today, not all of them are going to get off without a cinch. The cancellations have been very, very low. And if you look at the departures board, only about 60 cancellations nationwide today, although the delays have really climbed up and up. We're at about 2,300 delays nationwide in the United States.

The good news here is that air traffic control is relatively well- staffed, even though the chronic staffing shortages still persist and the agency is still short about 2,000 to 3,000 air traffic controllers. There's not the micro-shortages that were causing problems during the government shutdown.

And I want you to listen now to FAA Administrator Bryan Bedford, who says the agency is ready for all of these flights today and through this Thanksgiving rush. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRYAN BEDFORD, ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION: There's some weather in the forecast, but please be confident that the folks in the towers and in the TRACONs and the en route centers, they have a great plan, lots of different strategies we run to manage traffic safely and efficiently in all conditions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Of course, a lot of people are going to consider driving, instead of flying, this holiday. It's so much more of a driving holiday.

And AAA says, of the 80 million people who will travel 50 miles or more over the next few days, 70 million of them are driving, due in large part of the fact that gas prices are about the same as they were a year ago. We have already missed the best time to drive today. We're actually in the worst time now, according to AAA.

Around 2:00 to 3:00 p.m. is when things get really congested in some major metro areas. So the big advice from AAA, maybe wait until tomorrow morning to drive, or, if you can, drive on Thanksgiving Day. That's when traffic in some major metro areas is expected to be pretty much nil, but today could be two or three times worse than the norm.

DEAN: Yikes.

SANCHEZ: But there is a chance you miss out on early morning festivities, maybe that breakfast mimosa, et cetera.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Make sure, if you go to DCA, you say hi to Pete Muntean for us.

DEAN: Yes. Go find him.

MUNTEAN: I could use...

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Give him a big hug. Maybe bring him a hot dog.

Pete Muntean, the mayor of DCA, thank you so much, man.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: For more on how weather might complicate things, let's go to CNN meteorologist Derek Van Dam.

Derek, what looks like trouble right now?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Right now, we have a 45-minute, on average, delay because of low ceilings in and around Chicago.