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Cole Francis is Interviewed about the Shooting at Brown University; Police Release Individual in Brown University Shooting; Rob Reiner and Wife Dead in apparent Homicides; JetBlue Plane Avoids Midair Collision; Many Trump-Related Bets Take Hit. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 15, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:32:58]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, welcome back to Providence, Rhode Island. The breaking news this morning, authorities racing to find the shooter who killed two students and injured nine others here at Brown University right in this building behind me, behind the police tape there, the engineering building.

The search seemingly having to start all over again after overnight police announced they were going to release someone who they had called a person of interest who had been in custody since early yesterday morning. Now officials have said there's not enough evidence to hold him, and the evidence is pointing in a different direction.

They also are convinced that they're looking for a lone shooter, but they don't know where that shooter is. Both the mayor of Providence and the university itself, though, insists that at this moment there's no threat here to the larger community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BRETT SMILEY, PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND: We understand that there is a high degree of anxiety. And after this individual was released last night, I understand that that anxiety level has risen in our community. But it's no different than a day ago, which is that we've received -- continue to receive zero credible threats to our community, Brown or the broader community. And so, we have an enhanced police presence to try to give that comfort, that sense of security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, and with us now is Cole Francis, a senior at Brown University, who was in this building, the engineering building, on Saturday when the shooting took place.

Well, get to what you went through in just a moment, as the police are driving by here. But overnight, we learned that a person who had been in custody, who they had believed was a person of interest, was being released. What did it feel like to hear that going from thinking you were safe to all of a sudden the uncertainty again? COLE FRANCIS, SENIOR AT BROWN UNIVERSITY: Well, it was extremely

terrifying. I think that a lot of people found a lot of relief in knowing that the authorities had caught this person and recovered the weapons that this person may have used. And now to know that he may still be on the street is extremely scary and worrisome for a lot of people.

[08:35:08]

BERMAN: Where did you spend last night? I mean, do you feel safe here right now?

FRANCIS: I don't feel safe here whatsoever. I tried to spend most of the night in community with other folks, other students that had experienced similar effects to what happened on Saturday. But then, beyond that, it's just me alone.

BERMAN: Oh, being alone is hard in situations like this. It's always good to lean on your friends in the community if you can.

So, Saturday it was finals here. You were studying in this building behind us. Walk me through what happened.

FRANCIS: Yes. So, I was actually in Barus and Holley for most of the day, studying for my finals. I found a private classroom to study in with my friend. And then all of a sudden we started hearing like a popping noise. It almost sounded like the door was -- like a door was banging multiple times, over and over.

We tried to get out of the window. The windows don't open. So, then we had to bolt out of a door and try to exit as quickly as we could. Not really knowing what was going on, but just ultimately glad that we were in safety. We saw the first few police cars pull up and knew that this wasn't just a random occurrence (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: When did you find out what had happened?

FRANCIS: I hadn't found out until we made it back to my off campus apartment. But I actually did end up posting a video on Instagram seven minutes before the authorities were able to notify the campus. So, I heard from a few people that I was the first person that they heard about it from. So, we knew it could have been a shooting, and later that was confirmed.

BERMAN: Yes. Do you have any connection with any of the people who were in that classroom during the shooting?

FRANCIS: No. I don't have any connection to the people that were in the classroom. All that I know is that it was an econ review session. I'm also an economics student here at Brown, and I actually had a review session scheduled the next night in the same room. So, (INAUDIBLE) classes.

BERMAN: And I know -- I know you had planned to go home next Saturday. Now, with classes canceled, finals canceled, you're going home early?

FRANCIS: Yes, definitely. I'd like to get out of Providence as soon as I can.

BERMAN: Understandable. Well, like I said, you know, lean on your friends, lean on the community. Please get home safely. We appreciate you talking to us this morning.

FRANCIS: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right, with us now is CNN senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe.

Andy, it's good to see you this morning.

Let's start with where we are first before we look backwards at what happened. So, what do you do now that you had a person of interest in custody. They don't think that that's the direction they're going in anymore. Do you have to start over?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, absolutely, John, they have to start over as if this incident just happened moments ago. It's -- the toughest part of that is getting rid of all the conclusions you've been drawing in your mind about the person who was in custody, because you have now deemed all of that to be irrelevant. So, they have to really begin with what will be a very old-fashioned kind of old school, traditional approach to a manhunt investigation, because we know that they have very little relevant video to assist them in identifying who this shooter is. So, they're really going to have to go back to basics.

BERMAN: You know, authorities insist that they never stopped investigating other possible leads, even when they had this person in custody. But just human nature is to settle back a little bit, sit back a little bit. Does it set you back I guess is what I'm asking here when something like this happens?

MCCABE: It absolutely sets you back because in any sort of violent crime, but particularly a violent crime that includes a fleeing suspect that puts you in a manhunt situation, you -- every minute that goes by that you haven't identified who that person is, you get a little further behind. And the chances of solving this quickly and putting that person into custody get a little smaller with every minute, every hour, every day that goes by. So, yes, they're in a very different place than they were on Saturday. They've had -- there's been time lapse that allows that person to really get out ahead of them, to maybe put a lot of distance between themselves and the -- and the event. That doesn't always happen, but it could have here. And that will make things tougher.

[08:40:06]

BERMAN: So, all we know that they had to go on is that brief video from the street where I'm standing on right now, Hope Street, of a person in black walking around a corner there. We were told overnight that they don't have any really helpful video from inside the building. So, where can they turn at this point, Andy?

MCCABE: Yes, so, John, this is, you know, really, as I mentioned, very kind of old school tactics. First of all, there's a -- they have to make a determination about what sort of weapon was used to conduct this shooting. So, we don't have any reason to believe that they've actually recovered the weapon in question here, but there's got to be evidence, forensic evidence, at the scene that would lead you to get to at least a description. Are we talking a pistol? Are we talking a long gun? What sort of caliber? That sort of thing.

They need to go back and recanvass every person who could potentially have witnessed this shooter in the building at any time. So, not just those people who were in the -- in the room where the shooting took place, but people who were in contiguous rooms and people who were on the floor, people who we know might have been coming or going from the building during that time. They can potentially do some high-tech telephone analysis. There is the ability to isolate a population of phones based on analyzing those phones that were connected to the most -- to the closest cell phone towers at the time. Now, the problem with that sort of analysis and these facts is you're talking about a very densely populated area. Obviously, Providence is a city. So, that get -- that's an enormous population of phones. But nevertheless, one that you could start working through.

They'd also want to look at every rental record about lodging or transportation, rental cars, hotel records in the surrounding area, and then continue expanding that search to try to identify transient people who stayed or rented a car in the area. They could look at license plate readers to define a population of vehicles that were in that area before and after the shooting. So, there's a lot of different ways they can go, but all of them are going to require a massive amount of investigative resources.

BERMAN: A lot of work. A lot of work that needs to be done this morning. And we just heard from one student here, Cole, who understandably says he doesn't feel very safe here at Brown University this morning.

Andrew McCabe, we appreciate your help understanding where things are right now.

Kate, I have to say, again, the sense here is very different this morning at Brown than it was yesterday, when I think everyone did feel that the investigation was over, but not at all.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: That was so sad hearing from that student, J.B., and how unsafe he feels and alone right now. Well, get right back to John.

Well, be right back, J.B.

Hollywood tragedy we need to turn to now. A legendary film director, Rob Reiner, his wife, Michele, they are dead in an apparent double homicide. LAPD so far pretty tight lipped about what they know and don't. But we do know a family member was -- who found them in their Los Angeles home. Reiner is remembered for his massive contributions to the entertainment industry, both in front and behind the camera. The actor, Sean Astin, speaking on behalf of SAG-AFTRA, called Reiner "one of the most significant figures in the history of film and television."

Reiner's career spanned six decades. He went on, of course, to direct films that just became iconic. "The Princess Bride" and "When Harry Met Sally." Reiner is also known for his political activism and influence in Democratic politics. The Obamas put out a statement after learning the news, saying in part, that they are, quote, "heartbroken."

CNN's Brian Stelter joining me now.

There is so much not known about what has happened here. But we do know, though, that an icon and a legend has passed away. What do you make of this?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: It's unfortunately now a Hollywood murder mystery. People wondering who would have wanted Rob Reiner dead. Unless there was some sort of tragic accident that occurred at his home, these men and women were targeted. Reiner and his wife seem to have been the subject of a murder plot, and we simply don't know much about the investigation as it stands early this morning in L.A.

There is lots of speculation, though, about what happened on Sunday afternoon, about which relatives showed up at the home. Were they there just on an ordinary Sunday, or were they there because they were concerned something was wrong? Was this a wellness check? So many questions right now.

Meantime, so many people in L.A., and far beyond, are trying to make sense of this, trying to understand what could have happened, and also thinking back to Reiner's long legacy. I see lots of fans sharing the names of their favorite films and saying what streaming service you can go to go watch "When Harry Met Sally," where you can go and watch "This is Spinal Tap." You know, he had a career that spanned so many generations, so many decades with genre defining films.

[08:45:05]

And you mentioned, Kate, his political activism as well. I was thinking about the time that I interviewed him in 2018. He was releasing a movie about journalists who stood up against lies about the Iraq War. He -- that movie was called "Shock and Awe." So, that's an example of a movie that combined both his passion for filmmaking and his political activities as well.

Here's what Reiner told me in 2018, talking about the political environment, talking about political propaganda in the media, and his concern about disinformation. Here's what he said then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROB REINER, DIRECTOR: I spent a lot of time talking to intelligence experts who tell me, it's not even so much as spreading the lie and getting to believe the lie. It's getting them to be confused.

STELTER: Confused? REINER: To throw up a lot of smoke and get them to be confused.

STELTER: Well, that sure is happening.

REINER: And by the way -- yes. And the autocrat comes to the rescue. Don't worry, daddy will take care of you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: Reiner really prescient there in his comments about the information environment. I know every time I talked to him, every time I saw him sparring with people on Twitter, now known as X, he was really passionate about the news business, as well as about politics. Really interested in how people were consuming information. And he remained an incredible storyteller right up until his death. You know, he released a sequel to "Spinal Tap' just a couple of months ago. He worked with his wife, Michele. She was his producing partner. And the two of them together were nurturing young filmmakers, were working on art and were trying to protect the vulnerable, raising money for various organizations, supporting Democratic politicians.

You know, Reiner, for example, played an instrumental role in campaigning against bans of same sex marriage. He helped push the marriage equality movement across the United States. So, he's remembered for so many different reasons, in so many different ways. He really played almost every role in Hollywood over a career that spanned generations.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And you're really hitting on it. I mean when I was talking to Brett Lange of "Variety," just saying, like, this man was nowhere close to retirement. This is why -- just adding to kind of the shock of it all. And so beloved, especially around Hollywood. Brett even said he's something of -- kind of often considered as like the mayor -- the mayor of Hollywood because he's so beloved. Even if you -- no matter what you thought about his -- about his politics, but just his nature and --

STELTER: A mensch. A mensch. That's right.

BOLDUAN: A mensch. A mensch to a -- a mensch, by definition, for sure.

Brian, it's good to see you. Thank you so much.

New audio is coming out this morning capturing the moments a JetBlue plane, off of the coast of Venezuela, nearly collided with a U.S. military plane. We have much more on this coming up.

And from boom to bust. Brand new reporting inside the Trump-related bets that have paid off, and others that have cost investors a pretty penny.

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[08:52:12] BOLDUAN: There's new audio in this morning after a crazy near midair collision. A JetBlue flight leaving the small Caribbean nation of Curacao, en route to New York, had to abruptly stop its ascent to avoid colliding with a U.S. Air Force plane. The JetBlue pilot spoke to air traffic control basically as this played out. Just listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JETBLUE PILOT: We almost had a midair collision up here. Traffic passed directly in front of us within five miles of us, maybe two or three miles. But it was an air-to-air refueler from the United States Air Force. They don't have their transponder turned on. It's outrageous. We had to stop our climb and actually descend to avoid hitting them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The flight was near -- that JetBlue plane was near Venezuela at the time, which is notable because the incident comes as the U.S. military has stepped up its campaign and presence there amid President Trump's anti-drug trafficking campaign in the Caribbean, and also the attempts to continue to increase pressure on Venezuela's government. JetBlue now says they have reported the incident to federal authorities.

Joining me right now is CNN transportation analyst Mary Schiavo.

Mary, that audio go -- that back and forth with air traffic control is quite something. What do you make of this?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: Well, it was a -- it was a near collision. And fortunately, the pilots were doing what you're supposed to do, look out the window at all times to see and avoid, even if you're traversing the skies on instrument flight rules, as commercial passenger jets always are. But what this says to me is this rather lukewarm warning that the Federal Aviation Administration put out a couple of weeks ago saying avoid Venezuelan airspace is not nearly detailed enough. This does not give pilots and airlines enough information. And this situation is really a disaster waiting to happen because it's also coming out that there might be another one with a smaller plane that might have also happened near -- at or near the same time.

So, much more guidance is needed because there have been many midairs in the past with military planes.

BOLDUAN: From that audio, you hear the pilot say that the Air Force -- the Air Force jet did not have its transponder on. Is that surprising? What's the reason to turn that off?

SCHIAVO: Right. Well, you know, this is a scenario that we're seeing over and over again. I mean this was the helicopter at DCA back in January.

BOLDUAN: Exactly. SCHIAVO: So, they turn it off because they want to be in stealth mode because it's either their mission, because they don't want to be seen. They literally don't want to be seen by other traffic or others in the air or on the ground, or air traffic control, hostile air traffic control. And it's the same thing here. The warning went out that there would be operations, that there's danger over Venezuela, but I don't think that the warning was specific in saying that there's going to be very large U.S. military aircraft operating with no transponder.

[08:55:08]

Because that's how the collision avoidance works. You have to be seen by other aircraft and air traffic control or collision avoidance systems simply don't work. And this is a big issue for American commercial aviation. You can't really operate without it.

BOLDUAN: Yes, I mean, given where this took off from and where it was during this near collision, who investigates?

SCHIAVO: Well, that's very interesting. And, of course, there's another organization, ICAO International Civil Aviation Organization, that also sets international flight rules. So, it's always a combination. It's a combination of the flag nation of the carrier, that would be the United States, of the air traffic controller, which would be Curacao. And certainly I think that the Federal Aviation regulation will take the lead because it was a U.S. aircraft on both sides. It was the interloper aircraft without the transponder, and it was a commercial jet.

And particularly this time of year there's tremendous traffic back and forth to the Caribbean. So, the FAA will undoubtedly be investigating. And they should issue better guidance because the number of civilian planes brought down near military interventions, we had Malaysia Airlines 17, that was back in 2020. We had our 2014 and then we had Ukrainian airlines in 2020, and those were both brought down during skirmishes or war actions.

So, we need better guidance out of the FAA to protect not only U.S. aircraft, but others. I mean the Caribbean is very busy this time of year.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I mean, and clearly the last thing that the FAA and the Pentagon wants is a collision of an American carrier passenger jet and a U.S. military plane. I mean there -- to your point, if there's a lack of clarity and guidance, this seems to be a moment when it's needed yesterday, not tomorrow.

SCHIAVO: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, there's chatter about, well, they weren't really that close. Yes, they are. Under 29,000 feet you're supposed to be 1,000 feet vertical separation. And depending -- there's a lot of, you know, different scenarios, but three to five miles lateral separation, according to the pilot report, maybe they were right on the edge of a loss of separation and a near midair, but it is close enough that it's time for better guidance.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Mary, thank you so much. It is really good to see you. And always very -- we're always thankful for your expertise here.

Let's turn to this now. New this morning, companies and crypto projects linked to President Trump and his family exploded upon Trump's return to the White House. But a year in, some of those Trump- related bets, like his meme coin, for one, have tumbled in a big way.

CNN's Matt Egan has been taking a look at this. He's joining us now.

So, what happened and why here?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, Kate, look, the election, it set off this gold rush on Wall Street, right? Traders, they just scrambled to buy almost anything either linked to the Trump family or companies and sectors that were suspected to benefit from the election. And some of these trades, they worked out, like bitcoin, which has come down a bit but remains well up from the election.

However, a lot of the other ones, they've really just imploded. And that's cost people who were buying near the peak, dearly. And exhibit a is Trump Media, right? The owner of True Social. This company's share price, you can see on that chart on the left side, it really skyrocketed, leading up to the election. This was not based on fundamentals. This was based on speculation that Trump would win, right? And he did. But what's happened is this share price has actually had a horrible year. It's down.

BOLDUAN: This is not what you want your investment to look like.

EGAN: No. It's down roughly 80 percent from the peak. It was, at one point, worth $11 billion. Now, it's worth less than $3 billion. And that's in part because Truth Social, it remains a pretty tiny player when it comes to social media, right?

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: Just 1.5 million monthly active users for Truth Social in November, according to Similarweb. That is a far cry from the tens of millions on Threads or X or LinkedIn.

BOLDUAN: It's pretty wild to see the comparison. You know, the one caveat being, True Social has one user that everyone is reading and quoting, which is, of course, a president.

EGAN: Yes. Yes, exactly. And that's why people thought this thing would actually maybe work.

BOLDUAN: Right.

EGAN: But it's turned out to be just -- it just hasn't taken off at all.

Now, it's not just Trump media, right?

BOLDUAN: Right. EGAN: Because those meme coins you mentioned.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

EGAN: So, the president, and the first lady, launched the meme coins just before he got inaugurated, much to the dismay of ethics experts. And the official Trump meme coin, it's down 88 percent from the peak. The Melania coin, launched by the First Lady, it's lost 99 percent of its value. So, if you bought $100 on January 19th, you've got about a dollar left. It's just stunning.

And this fall back to earth reflects the fact that a lot of these bets, they didn't really make sense in the first place, at least when you looked at fundamentals.

[09:00:06]

Market veteran Art Hogan, he summed it up best. He told me, "sometimes