Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Jack Smith Testifies on Capitol Hill; Police Asking Public for Help; Nick Reiner Could Appear in Court Today. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 17, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

LEONARDO DICAPRIO, ACTOR: I'm like, you know, my school is this far away. When you pick me up, we can stop at a couple auditions on the way home.

JENNIFER LAWRENCE, ACTRESS: Yes.

DICAPRIO: Get me out there. So, I -- and then I -- like my -- like I said, my stepbrother, he was -- he was an actor. Did an episode of "Battlestar Galactica," and some television. And I was like, if anything, this is going to be my college fund to get me money to try to have some sort of career in something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Is there a list higher than a-list? New episode of "Variety's" "Actors on Actors" now streaming exclusively on the CNN app. A brand-new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, happening today and happening very soon, a high-stakes testimony on Capitol Hill. Former special counsel Jack Smith set to testify and face lawmakers behind closed doors and face questions about his investigations and prosecutions of Donald Trump. Why now? Well, we'll be learning soon.

And this morning, the manhunt in Rhode Island stretches into day five as they are still looking for the shooter from Brown University, as people -- as police release enhanced video of the person of interest that they are looking for.

And also, new photos just in showing the moment that Nick Reiner was arrested Sunday night. Today he could make his first court appearance and formally charged now with first degree murder in the fatal stabbing of his parents, Rob and Michele Reiner.

I'm Kate Bolduan, with John Berman. Sara is working the night shift tonight. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

All right, let's start on Capitol Hill this hour. Former special counsel Jack Smith, he's about to testify in front of the House Judiciary Committee all about his investigations and prosecutions of Donald Trump. You won't actually hear the depositions, though. It is happening all behind closed doors. Smith has said that he wants to testify publicly about it all, saying he'd voluntarily testify publicly before lawmakers. President Trump has even said that he would like to see that happen. The committee, not having it, at least not right now.

Smith was subpoenaed to testify by the Republican chair of the committee, Jim Jordan, who has long criticized these investigations, calling -- saying that Smith's probes into Trump, calling them, quote, "partizan and politically motivated." Smith, for his part, of course, has repeatedly denied that.

Let's get to Capitol Hill. Annie Grayer is standing by with the very latest.

Annie, what is about to happen?

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, we are waiting for Smith's arrival. He will sit in the room behind me. We're expecting to go for hours where he's going to be grilled by both Republican and Democratic lawmakers on the House Judiciary Committee, where he's going to be largely trying to defend his work, explain and answer any questions that lawmakers may have.

Now, Smith has been a top target for Republicans. They argue that his criminal investigations into President Trump were politically motivated and part of a larger effort, they say, from former President Joe Biden to weaponize the federal government against Trump. They usually point to Trump when -- they would usually point to Smith when they're making that argument.

But Smith had wanted to testify publicly. He wants to defend his work. He wants to explain how it happened. He wants to answer questions from lawmakers.

One topic we know that is going to come up is the question of lawmakers' phone records being subpoenaed as a part of his investigation. Republican lawmakers are very furious that they found out in recent years and months that their phone records were part of Smith's probe.

Now, Smith is, we're told, going to defend this, saying this is a normal part of a criminal investigation and that the phone records are not -- do not include the contents of conversations. So, he wants to clarify some of that there. But he's going to have to be careful how he answers these questions.

Now, Jim Jordan has wanted to question Jack Smith for a long time. He has -- Smith is going to have to be forthcoming in answering those questions, but he also has to balance the restrictions on what he can and can't say based on what the Justice Department has allowed him to talk about. For example, the second part of his final report into the -- into Trump's alleged mishandling of classified documents is still under seal. Democrats want Smith to talk about that. They wrote to Attorney General Pam Bondi about this ahead of the deposition. But Smith is going to have to be very careful how he answers the questions. Even though it's happening behind closed doors, we are expecting eventually to see the transcript of this interview. And this is not the end of Jim Jordan's investigations. As I reported

yesterday, there are four more of Smith's top deputies that Jordan wants to bring in for questioning by the end of this month. So, we are expecting this to be a long day here in the room behind me, and we'll be bringing you updates throughout the day.

BOLDUAN: All right, Annie, thank you so much for your reporting on this. It's all about to get underway.

John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now is CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor, Elliot Williams.

[09:05:03]

In addition to being a former federal prosecutor, I should note, you have been counsel on judiciary committees for Congress before. So, you've had an inside seat at things like this. And you can tell us, how unusual is it for the witness to want to testify publicly, but the members of Congress be like, no, no, no, no, no, we don't want people to see this.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's pretty remarkable, John. And think about the different interests that witnesses have and Congress has. Congress typically has an interest in making things public and, quite frankly, embarrassing witnesses in front of the camera. Here, the world's sort of on its head a little bit, in which the witness, Jack Smith, was the one requesting a public hearing, because as Annie had just laid out, it's in his interest to put this information out there. And Congress was the one calling for things to be held behind closed doors. Typically, these things are always negotiated in advance, but this is a little bit odd.

BERMAN: What's his legal jeopardy? I don't think there's any question that there are members on this committee who would like to make a point of him, or through him.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

BERMAN: So, what does he need to be careful of, and how do you think he will approach this in terms of the information that he knows?

WILLIAMS: Well, when you talk about legal jeopardy, the big one is making a false statement to Congress. It's not just perjury where -- which is lying under oath. And a lot of -- a lot of times witnesses aren't even sworn for these -- for these types of proceedings. It's if he makes a statement that can be determined to be a falsehood, then that could itself be a crime.

Now, you know, Annie had laid this out before, he has to be very, very careful in his answers, as anybody does when appearing before Congress. But it's just keeping your story straight whenever you testify is a really important factor.

BERMAN: Now, Annie Grayer laid out some of the key areas of interest for Republicans on this committee. One of them is the fact that Jack Smith's team wanted some of their phone records. How big of a deal is this, do you think, Elliot?

WILLIAMS: In the abstract, John, yes, it's a big deal if a member -- if the Justice Department is seeking phone records from members of Congress. But that's not quite what happened here. There was an investigation that, quite frankly, the country knew about at a certain point into the activities around January 6th, when members of Congress placed calls to the president -- to the president. Naturally their data, not transcripts, and not information about the calls themselves, got brought to the Justice Department's attention. That happens all the time in investigations when someone is being investigated, of course their phone records will be fair game and anyone who calls him will be investigated. Quite frankly, if Democratic members of Congress had called the president in those days, I would have expected the Justice Department to get those records, too.

So, it's a little bit of a nothing burger issue. They should ask questions about it and make sure that everything was above board. But let's be clear, it was basic investigation that we're talking about here. The public just doesn't understand.

BERMAN: And that was the election subversion case.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

BERMAN: The other case is the Mar-a-Lago documents case, which was handled in a completely different way by a judge in Florida who basically made it go away there.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

BERMAN: Republicans still have questions about that, but there's still so much we don't know about what Jack Smith concluded there ultimately

WILLIAMS: Absolutely. Absolutely the big one. So, I would -- I would think that Congress is concerned and the president's concerned about the propriety of searching Mar-a-Lago for documents. How did that search play out? Well, I would think, John, having done this for quite some time, a lot of that information is in the report. The part two of Jack Smith's report that has not been made public yet. You know, were that information out there, I think everybody would have a decent sense and could really assess whether -- whether the search itself was proper.

Now, look, the law assumes that law enforcement behaves in an appropriate manner. And I think we ought to treat the world as if that were the case. But putting that report out might actually be quite valuable, not just for Congress, but for Jack Smith and, quite frankly, all the American people to really see what happened.

BERMAN: So, they're telling me I'm out of time, but I do have one more quick question based on that, Elliot, then, which is, that based on sort of the fact this is a closed door hearing, who gets to control the release of this information? Because you can imagine Republicans saying one thing about what was actually said in the back and forth. WILLIAMS: Yes.

BERMAN: Can Jack Smith then say, no, no, no, this is what I said?

WILLIAMS: Yes, typically the witness will get to see the transcript, but ultimately it's Congress' call as to what they make public from their private meetings.

BERMAN: Elliot Williams, great insight, as always. Thank you very much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, this morning, investigators in Providence are working through hundreds of tips and leads in the continued search for the Brown University shooter. Authorities released also newly enhanced videos -- you see him there -- of the person of interest that they're looking for. They released this just late yesterday, and they're asking the public to take note, to take a look at this person's posture, and gait as potential identifiers. As we now learn that this -- that the person was seen kind of casing the area for hours ahead of time.

[09:10:01]

CNN's Michael Yoshida is in Providence. He's got the very latest on this.

Michael, what are you learning this morning about this manhunt today?

MICHAEL YOSHIDA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Kate.

And you mentioned that eerie detail about that person of interest being in this neighborhood, in this residential area, hours before this deadly shooting took place. Just behind me, you can see the building still surrounded by crime scene tape as this investigation continues. We're now into day five of this manhunt. Investigators again saying they've got these images, these new video showing this person of interest scouting the area for up to some five hours before the shooting happened on Saturday. Those new, enhanced images and videos being put out, though, fair to ask if you can really get much from them. Still hard to see the face of the person of interest, but investigators hoping someone may recognize maybe the appearance, the body appearance, the way they're walking, standing as they moved through this area. Hundreds of tips already have come in as this community, still anxious, still waiting for answers and still processing and mourning the loss of their community members, their fellow students. Two students were killed, Ella Cook, as well as Mukhammadaziz Umurzokov. They're being remembered by their classmates, by their family members. And we did hear from the sister of Umurzokov speaking to CNN. Here's what she had to say about how she wants her brother to be remembered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMIRA UMURZOKOVA, BROTHER KILLED IN SHOOTING AT BROWN UNIVERSITY: He was the most kind-hearted, funny. He was the most -- he was the smartest person I've ever met. He, you know, he always helped someone before he helped himself, you know, without any hesitation.

I want people to know that him and the other victim, they're not just numbers. They're not just statistics. They're real people. And real families are genuinely hurting like crazy because of their loss.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOSHIDA: And as family members, as this community continue to grieve and mourn those killed and injured, we have seen growing memorials here across the campus. And in speaking with those who are stopping by, dropping off flowers, other messages, there's a real sense of anxiousness. Obviously, we've seen a heavy police and law enforcement presence around the community, around the campus over the last few days. And those we spoke with say, while that is reassuring, there is still that big unknown, right, that this individual is still out there. They don't know where they are. They don't know why they did this. And while they believe that they can feel safe in time, they really need those answers given to them.

Of course, with this investigation moving forward, we know crews will be moving out into further areas away from the campus as they try and find more video, more images, potential other clues to try and track down this person of interest and eventually bring this shooter to justice.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: A high level of anxiety is understandable in the community right now as this manhunt continues.

Michael, thank you very much for that.

So, you could see Nick Reiner in court today. The son of Hollywood legend Rob Reiner may make his first court appearance, formally charged now in the murder of his father and mother. The new details that could come in court this time.

Overnight, Republican leaders in Congress all but closing the door on taking any action to extend health care subsidies before they head out of town. So, what happens then to health care premiums for tens of millions of Americans come next year?

And why one family could face hundreds of dollars in fines over a festive light display.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:20]

BERMAN: All right, we are standing by for Nick Reiner, the son of Rob and Michele Reiner, to make his first appearance in court. The younger Reiner is now formally charged with first degree murder in the fatal stabbing of his parents.

I want to get right to CNN's Stephanie Elam, live in Los Angeles.

And, Steph, we're getting kind of new reporting on what went on the night before the Reiners were killed.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. We're getting more of a timeline being built out here now that we've heard from the district attorney, John, talking about the charges that they plan to file against Nick Reiner.

And what we learned is that there was that party at Conan O'Brien's house the night before the Reiners were found murdered. And what we do know is that while we had heard about him getting into a fight with his dad at that party, that people heard them arguing.

We also heard from a witness, someone who was at that party, that told our Nick Watt that she saw Nick Reiner and that he was disheveled looking. That he was not dressed up like everybody else was. That he was smoking a cigarette out by the fire pit and just kind of standing to himself and had a very flat face, is how she described it. Just not really any emotion on his face whatsoever.

We don't know if all the Reiners left together. We do know that the younger Reiner was living in the guest house on the property, but that is not where he was apprehended.

And listening to the district attorney talk about this case and saying that he's going to face first degree murder charges for both of his parents and with special circumstance because there was more than one murder at that time.

But you've got to also take into account, John, that the daughter of the Reiner lives across the street. She went over to check on her parents around 3:00 in the afternoon on Sunday, discovered her parents' bodies, and then had someone call 911.

[09:20:00]

But think about the stress for her. Learning that your parents are gone, and that the number one suspect in the case is your brother.

Take a listen to the district attorney's office talking about a case like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATHAN HOCHMAN, LOS ANGELES COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Now prosecuting these cases involving family members are some of the most challenging and most heart-wrenching cases that this office faces because of the intimate and often brutal nature of the crimes involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: The district attorney also saying that they will take into account the family's thoughts and desires in this case. Nick Reiner is looking at a lifetime in jail without the chance of parole. If this were to go forward in that direction, we could likely see him in court today making his first court appearance. He has to go through a medical evaluation, which every person coming from the jail to the courthouse has to do. But no word yet for sure that he'll be here, but we'll be on the lookout for that later today.

John.

BERMAN: Honestly, just the details are just so upsetting surrounding all of this.

Stephanie Elam, in Los Angeles, thank you for your reporting.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now to talk about the legal path forward here is entertainment attorney Lisa Bonner.

Lisa, it's good to see you. Thank you for being here.

In -- there's a lot --

LISA BONNER, ENTERTAINMENT ATTORNEY: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: I'm hearing terminology I wanted to ask you about as this moves forward. There's a lot of talk of special circumstances quite often and also kind of a special allegation involving a weapon alongside this murder charge. What does this mean?

BONNER: Well, that's a great question because these are often conflated and they are two different things.

For example, the special circumstances will apply in an -- in a circumstance of murder in the first degree, which is eligible with -- if found guilty, the defendant faces 25 years to life. But if you have these special circumstances, which is brought in from a double murder in the same case, that is found -- and the defendant is found to have intentionally caused this, that elevates the sentence possibility from 25 years to life to the death penalty -- for him to be eligible for the death penalty or the life without parole.

Now, the special allegation comes into play because there was a knife involved. But that does not itself yield or act as a sentencing enhancement. It just decides whether or not the defendant, in the special circumstances, is actually eligible. So, it is a sentence enhancer and it decides the eligibility. So, they're quite different.

BOLDUAN: The -- as Stephanie Elam was talking about, the -- what he could be looking at is a maximum sentence of life in prison without parole. There is also talk it could -- it could also mean the death penalty. The D.A. has said they have not yet decided if they want to pursue that and also said this.

Let me play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In these cases, like any of these cases, we will take the thoughts and desires of the family into consideration in making our decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And how does that work, taking the family's thoughts and desires into consideration, when the D.A. is facing a huge decision?

BONNER: Right. The criminal case is brought by the district attorney's office, right. It's different than a civil case, which would be brought in, by instance, from a person. But you are in a -- in a criminal case, you are deciding a person's liberty. So, in talking to the family and to the siblings and to any other people that might have been directly involved or impacted by this, they will take into consideration what the -- what the family member in this instance or what his siblings want to see. Remember, both parents are dead, so we are looking at the immediate family. So, it's the daughter and the other son. So, they are going to really participate and talk about it because, let's be frank and clear, it's their brother that is facing murder allegations and a possibility, because of these special circumstances, that is one of the harshest elements under California law, that would open the door, again if found guilty of each victim, would open the door for life without parole or the death penalty.

Now, the death penalty has been stayed because of an order by Gavin Newsom, but it is still on the books in California. But they are absolutely going to work with the other siblings to really talk about the particular elements of the case and how far they want to take this. So, it's a very tight tightrope to walk on both sides. So, I don't -- I don't envy either party in this instance.

BOLDUAN: Yes, no kidding. And it just -- literally cannot imagine what those siblings are going through right now.

BONNER: No.

BOLDUAN: And the sister is the one who found, as we know, Romy is the one who found her parents Sunday afternoon.

BONNER: Yes.

[09:25:05]

BOLDUAN: Just unimaginable.

Lisa, thank you very much for coming in and your time here.

So, breaking overnight, here's a quote for you, "a total and complete blockade." That is what President Trump announced and is promising now to take more action against Venezuela on oil tankers. What this could mean.

And if you're planning on going to the World Cup, you will probably want to start saving right now. Ticket prices surging, and that's if you can even get a chance to buy one. What's going on here?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:05]