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Interview with Rep. Ben Cline (R-VA): Jack Smith Testifies He had Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt of Trump Crimes; Trump Attends Dignified Transfer for U.S. National Guard Members, Civilian Killed in Syria. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired December 17, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: ... such time as they returned to United States of America, all of the oil, land and other assets that they previously stole from us.

Now, that last line, I should be clear, it's not very clear what he meant by that. We have asked the White House about that, this idea of stealing land and resources.

We're waiting for clarity. Now, of course, the Maduro government had responded as well. They argued that this is just revealing the true intentions of the president's desire to steal wealth from the country.

So this is only going to escalate further, Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And the president is planning to address the nation tonight. What are you learning about what he's going to say, Alayna?

TREENE: Yes. And what we're being told is that this is really supposed to be kind of a look back on the past year. He wants to highlight some of his accomplishments while being in office and also look ahead to his goals next year.

Now, of course, one of the main, I think, tests for the president tonight is how he addresses the economy. That is, of course, one of the major issues that they are trying to be better messengers on as we head into the new year, and particularly a year that's going to be dominated really by a lot of the midterm election conversation. And one thing as well, we saw today that the Treasury Department kind of formally launched a Web site for the Trump accounts.

Those are, of course, the accounts that will provide millions of children with around $1,000 in seed money to help get them started. That is something the president likely to touch on again, trying to tie into some of the things that he has done for the economy. But I think there will be a lot of eyes on how he addresses that.

And he's going to be having a big focus on that as well.

KEILAR: All right, Alayna Treene, thank you so much. We'll be right back. [14:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: On Capitol Hill today, an appearance by former special counsel Jack Smith. Today he forcefully defended his criminal investigation of President Trump. In portions of his opening statement obtained by CNN, Smith said his team, quote, "... developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that President Trump engaged in a criminal scheme to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election and to prevent the lawful transfer of power."

Smith giving his deposition behind closed doors before the House Judiciary Committee. We're joined now by Republican Congressman Ben Cline of Virginia, who's a member of that committee. Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

Just to start, if it is what President Trump has called for and it's what the former special counsel says he wants, why not have Jack Smith testify publicly?

REP. BEN CLINE (R-VA), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Have you seen the Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee operate? They don't focus on the facts. They focus on emotion and excitement and whatever gets them attention from the media.

So to have a public hearing will be necessary following this deposition. But to get to the bottom of the weaponization of the DOJ against Donald Trump, against sitting U.S. senators, against a former Speaker of the House, against conservative groups, we have to get to the bottom of that. And that involves a private deposition with lawyers present asking very detailed questions.

SANCHEZ: You're speaking, Congressman, to the collection of these phone records that specifically when it comes to members of Congress, Smith and his team collected surrounding the days of early January 2021. There was an investigation into whether there was a conspiracy between President Trump and some in his orbit to try to delay the certification of the Electoral College vote in Congress. My understanding is that those phone records didn't actually contain the content of those conversations, but purely just what numbers were speaking to each other and how long the call lasted.

You're suggesting that the special counsel and his team were spying on lawmakers?

CLINE: I believe that the copying, the taking of those numbers, the monitoring of those conversations was a violation not only of speech and debate clause, but also of the separation of powers. And so we do have issues with the methods in which Jack Smith underwent his investigation. We believe that he violated the norms and procedures of the Department of Justice as well as potentially the laws in the Constitution of the United States.

SANCHEZ: But if days before that, you had the president of the United States at the time on tape suggesting to the Georgia secretary of state that he should find him some 11,000 votes, you don't think there's sufficient cause for someone to investigate whether the president was doing that with sitting members of Congress?

CLINE: You know, Jack Smith is a political hack. He was involved in the weaponization of the Department of Justice against the president and against members of Congress. And, you know, for him to sit in this deposition and arrogantly put forward that he had probable cause, well, he's only being arrogant because he's surrounded by Democrats who are tossing him softball questions. When in reality, his history of going after Republican officials just look to Virginia, where he claims to have had probable cause to go after my former governor Bob McDonnell.

And yet that conviction was overturned 9-0 by the Supreme Court. So he has a history of failure and a history of politicization of his job. And he's a weasel.

SANCHEZ: I didn't hear you answer the actual substance of the question. But nevertheless, Congressman, I do wonder what you make of what we heard from the White House chief of staff, Susie Wiles, acknowledging to Vanity Fair that Trump doesn't wake up thinking about retribution, but when there's an opportunity, he will go for it.

[14:40:00]

Do you think Republicans run the risk of coming across as though they're simply trying to facilitate the president getting his version of payback?

CLINE: The Judiciary Committee is conducting its constitutional duty of oversight over the Department of Justice. Not only do I sit on Judiciary, I sit on the Appropriations Subcommittee on the Judiciary. So we have an obligation to follow the taxpayer dollars.

It was over $50 million spent on this targeted weaponization against President Trump, against members of Congress and against conservatives. And we're going to find out the facts and ensure accountability follows.

SANCHEZ: Separately, Congressman, I do want to ask you about the big news on Capitol Hill regarding health care. What do you make of four of your Republican colleagues backing this Democratic push, forcing a vote on the expiring Obamacare subsidies over Speaker Johnson's objections? Will you support it?

CLINE: Well, it's a misunderstanding of the failures of Obamacare. The fix is not to double down and add more government spending, more taxpayer dollars going to insurance companies padding their profits. We have to give consumers more choice.

We have to give more options to consumers like the bills that we are going to be considering and hopefully passing in the next day to make sure that consumers have more choice. Competition brings down costs, and that applies to health care just like any other industry.

SANCHEZ: You're not concerned that many of your constituents are going to see their costs immediately skyrocket for health care?

CLINE: We are concerned, and that's why we're putting forward legislation that will immediately give relief to those very same constituents. So hopefully we can, by reducing regulations and reducing costs when it comes to the health care industry, we can give consumers that relief and add to those choices that will help bring down costs for all Americans, not just a select few who are relying on these subsidies. And while we are concerned about the cost of health care, just as we're concerned about the cost of energy, just as we're concerned about the cost of housing, all of these things were made unaffordable by the last administration and all of the regulations and the Green New Deal and the Obamacare regulations.

So all of this coming from Democrat administrations past, we are trying to undo as quickly as possible to give relief to the American people, and we hope to take a giant step forward on that tomorrow.

SANCHEZ: One final question, Congressman. Going back to Susie Wiles, specifically her comments on Venezuela, she says that the president wants to keep on blowing up boats until Nicolas Maduro cries uncle. Now the president is announcing this blockade of sanctioned oil tankers in Venezuelan waters.

At what point does President Trump need the authority of Congress to help him carry out these actions? Shouldn't lawmakers on Capitol Hill have a say over these matters?

CLINE: We are conducting oversight. We had the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense in front of all members of the House and Senate yesterday, explaining in a confidential briefing the legal justification for these strikes. It is sound, it is constitutional, and it is warranted, given Maduro's behavior, the trafficking that is going on that is killing Americans each and every day.

SANCHEZ: You're talking about the boat strikes. Here Susie Wiles is essentially talking about regime change. Is that not something that should go through Congress?

CLINE: I haven't read this Vanity Fair article you're speaking of, but I do know that Congress will continue to assert its oversight role and make sure that the president's actions and these strikes are constitutional and within the scope and letter of the law.

SANCHEZ: It is a long read, but I bet it's worth your time. Congressman Ben Cline, thank you so much for joining us.

CLINE: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: So we are awaiting the dignified transfer of the remains of two Iowa National Guard members and a civilian interpreter who were killed in an attack in the Syrian desert. That is happening in just moments at Dover Air Force Base. These are live images as we await the arrival of President Trump there.

Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:45:00]

SANCHEZ: Let's go straight to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, where right now we're watching one of the most solemn duties of the nation's commander in chief, President Trump, there to witness the dignified transfer of the remains of two Iowa National Guard members and a civilian interpreter who were killed in an attack in the Syrian desert.

KEILAR: Yes, we should mention who we are talking about, Sergeant William Howard of Iowa, Sergeant Edgar Torres-Tovar of Iowa, and Ayad Mansoor Sakat, known to those he served with as a civilian interpreter as Eddie. He is from Maycomb, Michigan.

And we have Colonel Cedric Leighton with us as we are witnessing this -- a reminder of the dangerous work that American troops are doing around the world.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It certainly is Brianna. And, you know, when you look at all the sacrifices that are made on an individual basis by members of the American military, this, of course, is the ultimate sacrifice. And you see, you know, the president, along with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the military leadership there, they are paying their respects to, you know, two soldiers and a civilian interpreter who really made that ultimate sacrifice and were in a very difficult mission against ISIS, you know, a mission that a lot of people have forgotten about, but it's still very alive and very active.

SANCHEZ: And President Trump has vowed retaliation in response for that ISIS-inspired attack. Colonel, if you could walk us through what this process is like, what we're about to witness.

LEIGHTON: So what we're about to see, Boris, is the transfer of what are called transfer cases. They're not officially known as coffins at this point in time. I see the president saluting there, and they will now be brought out by what amounts to an honor guard of members of the Army in this particular case, bringing the remains of the service members and the interpreter.

And they will then go from this transfer ceremony to the mortuary at Dover.

KEILAR: Let's listen or let's watch.

[14:50:00]

(DIGNIFIED TRANSFER FOR U.S. NATIONAL GUARD MEMBERS, CIVILIAN KILLED IN SYRIA)

[14:55:00]

KEILAR: We are watching the most solemn event for the U.S. military, a true symbol of the ultimate sacrifice of, as we do remember, the all- volunteer force here in America. This is the dignified transfer of the remains of two members of the Iowa National Guard, Sergeant William Howard and Sergeant Edgar Torres-Tovar, and Ayad Mansour Sakat, known to those he served alongside as an interpreter as Eddie, of Maycomb, Michigan, killed over the weekend in an anti-ISIS operation near the ancient Syrian city of Palmyra, Syria.

SANCHEZ: This is actually Trump's first visit to Dover in his second term. The president describing this as the toughest thing he has to do as commander in chief. He'd previously visited Dover at least three times during his first term in 2017, 2019, and 2020.

And as we were just hearing a moment ago from Colonel Cedric Leighton, these transfer cases that have been taken off the C-17 have now been loaded onto these vans, where they will move to a different location in the facility where the remains of the service members and the interpreter are going to be prepared for their final resting place.

LEIGHTON: That's right, Boris. And this facility is a 78,000 square foot facility that was built in 2003. It handles casualties like this for all elements of the U.S. Armed Forces and also civilians that are involved in operations like this. So the Air Force actually has responsibility as the lead service for these kinds of mortuary affairs issues. And Dover Air Force Base has been the scene of these transfers. We know them from the global war on terror, but they've been doing this for quite some time.

The facility has been in existence in various forms since at least the 1950s. So this type of ceremony, of course, is one step, just one step in the ceremonies that are, you know, surrounding not only the funerals of these service members and the interpreter, but also of the family's grieving process, which the military takes very seriously.

KEILAR: And this is done with the consent of the families, that the media is there, able to see this. We don't hear the audio. It's not provided.

We couldn't provide that to you. This is part of the policy, the longstanding policy of being able to see these dignified transfers, the cost of war, the cost of military service. And what we aren't seeing, Cedric, are the families.

They are off camera due to privacy. They are not shown, but they are here to witness this.

LEIGHTON: They are here to witness this and really to, you know, not only be a part of the ceremony, but it also gives them at least the beginnings, at least the hope is that it gives them the beginnings of closure, some degree of closure for, you know, what not only is a terrible event in their personal lives, but also it underlines the ultimate sacrifice that not only these service members have, and this is, you know, something that is very critical for them as well.

SANCHEZ: No doubt, as President Trump now leaves that staging area and is set to depart Dover Air Force Base momentarily. We've been watching the dignified transfer for two U.S. National Guard members and their civilian interpreter killed over the weekend in Syria.

Stay with CNN. We'll be right back after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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