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Rep. Katherine Clark (D-MA) is Interviewed about the Epstein Files; James Marsh is Interviewed about the Epstein Files; Nuclear Deal Involving Trump; Top Ten Business Stories that Defined 2025. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 22, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:31:01]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, could more Jeffrey Epstein files drop today? A big question, and everyone's waiting to see. The Justice Department is said to still be working to prepare the millions of pages, if you will, for release. And the department is right now facing more, not less, scrutiny after releasing more than 13,000 files on Friday, left, right, center, hitting the Justice Department for not only being slow to follow the law around this release, but also for how heavily redacted the initial batch of files are. The deputy attorney general was out Sunday defending the Justice Department.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: The reason why we are still reviewing documents and still continuing our process is simply that, to protect victims. So, the same individuals that are out there complaining about the lack of documents that were produced on Friday are the same individuals who apparently don't want us to protect victims. So, we're going through a very methodical process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining me right now, Democratic Congresswoman Katherine Clark of Massachusetts, a member of the House Democratic leadership, for much more on this.

Thanks for coming in.

So, you have Republican Congressman Tom Massie, who says that he's working with Ro Khanna to prepare a resolution now to try to hold Pam Bondi in contempt over all of this. It would fine -- their goal is to fine Pam Bondi for every day that she's not releasing these documents. Will Democrats be working with Thomas Massie on this, other than Ro Khanna?

REP. KATHERINE CLARK (D-MA): You know, what we're seeing, Kate, is a massive cover-up by the White House, working with DOJ. And time is up. They signed this law. They knew (AUDIO GAP) lines we're and they missed them. And we have two concerns here. One is that we need justice for the survivors. And second is we need this White House and the Department of Justice to comply with the law. So, we are going to consider all options in what we can do as members of Congress to make sure that they release these full documents. The time for excuses has ended.

BOLDUAN: But do you think a resolution to hold the attorney general in contempt, one, do you think it would get through Congress? Two, do you think it would do what the intended purpose would be, to get them to release things faster?

CLARK: Yes, I think that Congressman Khanna and Massie are considering this because it is an option to put pressure on the DOJ. Whether it would get through Congress is a whole nother story. We have seen the Republicans only come around to actually signing the discharge petition and, more importantly, getting that vote on the floor after incredible public pressure and political pressure. So, we will see. It is certainly not something that Mike Johnson prioritized. And he's been very quiet after this release that fell way short of what's legally required. So again, all options are on the table to try and get Department of Justice and this White House to comply and release these files.

BOLDUAN: Heading into the new year and into a midterm election year, 18 percent of voters approve of the way the Democrats in Congress are handling the job. Seventy-three percent disapprove. This is a record low job approval rating for your party. This came out last week in this Quinnipiac poll. But the ripple effects are going to continue for quite some time. You're underwater even with Democratic voters in terms of approval. Why, Congresswoman?

CLARK: Well, first I want to say that we have polls that show a much better picture for the Democrats. But the polls are not what we're looking at.

[08:35:00]

We are looking at elections. And every single special election, and certainly the results of November 4th, are confirmation that Democrats are on the right path. We are fighting for the American people who are simply not making it in this economy. We are focused on lowering our costs and protecting their health care. And, right now, we are looking -- we are just ten days out from the ACA tax credits expiring. Mike Johnson and House Republicans sent us home without extending those credits for the American people.

So, we're going to let the polls sort themselves out. But what we're going to continue to do is prioritize people at home who are telling us they are unable to afford housing and groceries and utility bills. And they are seeing spikes in their health care from this Republican- created crisis that could be thousands of dollars in additional payments a month. That's where our focus is going to be. That's where it's going to remain.

BOLDUAN: You do know that -- I mean and you have seen it, that when any politician doesn't like the polling numbers, they often say, I've got polls showing something better. I mean I know that both sides have criticized the other for picking the polls that benefit them.

But I want to move on because this actually gets to what you're facing now. You're getting a primary challenge for -- in this midterm, described as one of the highest ranking Democrats to face an intraparty threat to her re-election. Jonathan Paz basically came out after you in his announcement video announcing his campaign.

Let me play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN PAZ: I'm challenging one of the most powerful Democrats in the House because we need new leadership. Let's just call it what it is. Our Democratic leaders are failing us. They're not stopping Trump. They're not making life more affordable. They're not building a party for the working class.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Are you worried about this primary challenge?

CLARK: Listen, everyone has an opportunity in a democracy to challenge. And so, I welcome that.

But here's where my focus is going to remain, on fixing this health care crisis and on making an economy that works for working people. Jonathan Paz is welcome to run against me, as is anyone else. But that is going to be what I remain focused on. And if we're looking for leadership, let's look at what House Democrats have been able to do.

We, in the minority, have been able to get through three discharged petitions that help us set up success for the American people. The release of the Epstein files, restoring collective bargaining to our federal agencies. And now we are guaranteed a vote on these ACA tax credits for January. That is what we are doing to use our power of unity in the minority to get good things done for the American people who deserve better than they're getting from Republicans.

So, we'll deal with this primary challenge. But my focus is going to be on delivering for families at home and winning the midterms in '26.

BOLDUAN: Congresswoman Clark, thanks for coming in.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you, Kate.

The DOJ'S partial release of the Epstein files did provide vindication for two victims of abuse, Maria Farmer and her sister Annie. They have said for years that Maria had filed one of the first complaints to the FBI against Epstein in the 1990s. An FBI document released Friday included a 1999 -- excuse me, 1996 description of a criminal complaint against Epstein related to child pornography, which Maria confirmed was her complaint.

Joining me now is James Marsh. He's an attorney who represents Maria Farmer and other survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse.

Thank you so much for being here.

I know your client was relieved and felt vindicated that what she has always maintained, finally she got to see them showing up in those files. But there are so many files that still have not been released. How are some of your clients responding to what they're seeing coming out so far, that that was supposed to be the entire file released with few redactions.

JAMES MARSH, ATTORNEY, REPRESENTS VICTIMS OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN: Well, as you reported on CNN, and has been widely reported, there's a lot of disappointment in this early file release. At least, as you said, for my clients, for two of them at least, they're very -- feel very vindicated given that they reported this 30 years ago. And I think what's really important, for all of the victims and survivors is that there be full accountability and that we try to understand exactly why this very serious criminal complaint in 1996 didn't go anywhere, wasn't fully investigated, and actually led to the abuse and exploitation of hundreds, if not thousands of other women.

[08:40:22]

So, I think there needs to be full accountability here. And we really need to start back at the beginning. But certainly I think there's been a lot of disappointment in what's happened with the release.

SIDNER: One of the disappointments, or the concerns that we're hearing now, are both political and from victims. We saw there were 15 or so files that included a picture of Donald Trump alongside Ghislaine Maxwell, Melania Trump and Epstein, where they were put out, and then they were taken down, and there was a reason for that. And I want you to respond to what Todd Blanche, the, you know, DOJ's basically second in command, said about why that happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: There were a number of photographs that were pulled down after being released on Friday. That's because a judge in New York has ordered us to listen to any victim or victim rights group, if they have any concerns about the material that we're putting up. And so when we hear concerns, whether it's photographs of women that we do not believe are victims or we didn't have information to show that they were victims, but we learned that there are concerns, of course we're taking that photograph down and we're going to address it. If we need to redact faces or other information, we will. And then we'll put it back up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Does this satisfy you or do you and your clients have concerns that the DOJ is playing politics with this release to try and either protect the president or other powerful people from scrutiny?

MARSH: I think there's a huge betrayal of trust with the victims and survivors of Jeffrey Epstein. This has gone on for decades. Not months, but decades. For my client, Maria Farmer, it's been 30 years. For other victims and survivors, they were talking about this in the 2000s.

And so, when things like this happen, whether inadvertently, intentionally, bungled the whole release from the very beginning, this breeds a lot of suspicion and justifiable, you know, almost like people -- what has taken so long, right? I mean, this is not unusual. And, you know, I -- obviously we do a lot of work with victims, and we, you know, there was no process here. And that's, I think, the bigger thing.

And I think for a lot of people, it just feels like another betrayal, another cover-up, another denial of the essential facts here, which was Jeffrey Epstein was connected to rich and powerful people and exploited women and young girls with impunity for decades. And we still haven't gotten (AUDIO GAP).

SIDNER: James Marsh, I do appreciate you taking the time to walk us through all that and speaking on behalf of those who were victimized by Jeffrey Epstein.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, new this morning, a $6 billion merger deal between Trump Media and a nuclear fusion firm is raising a slew of ethical questions. The planned merger between Truth Social's parent company and TAE Technologies would give President Trump a major financial stake in the nuclear fusion industry. Experts warn this could set up a fairly classic conflict of interest here.

CNN's Matt Egan covering this for us.

This is just so unusual on its face.

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Oh, it is. I mean I did not have this on my 2025 bingo card, right? The president's social media company is merging with a nuclear fusion company.

Now, TAE Technology is not a household name.

BERMAN: Oh, it's not called TAE. I mispronounced. I should have -- I should have put periods in there (INAUDIBLE).

EGAN: No worries. It's not a household name, but it's been around for almost 30 years. And it is backed by Google and Chevron and Goldman Sachs. And next year it's aiming to launch the world's first utility scale fusion power plant.

Now, nuclear fusion is often looked at as the holy grail of clean energy because it can create almost limitless clean energy by harnessing the same process that powers the sun and the stars.

But look, it's not commercially viable at this point. It's probably going to depend on the deep pockets of the federal government, not to mention federal government regulators who are going to have to make sure this is developed in a safe way. And so, you're going to have a situation where at some point, probably next year, if this deal goes through, you're going to have the president of the United States owning a significant financial interest in a company's whose fortunes are going to be directly influenced by the actions of the same federal government that the president presides over.

So, this is obviously alarming ethics watchdogs. I talked to Richard Painter. He was the top ethics official under George W. Bush. And he told me this is a clear conflict of interest.

[08:45:02]

He said, anyone other than the president and the vice president, if they were a federal official and they were involved in federal government matters, where they have a significant financial interest, they could be running afoul of criminal conflict of interest laws. However, those laws, they don't actually apply to the president or the vice president.

And look, this caused an almost immediate boost to Donald Trump's net worth because the share price of Trump Media, it went up by 42 percent the day that this deal was announced. That increased the value of the shares that Trump owns through a trust by $500 million.

And, John, that was just in one day.

BERMAN: Does the White House have a response to this? Because, frankly, what would a nuclear fusion company want with a social media network?

EGAN: Well, what they want is Trump Media's balance sheet.

BERMAN: Right.

EGAN: They want access to the cash. So, the White House, they're rejecting concerns about a conflict of interest. The press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, she says that neither the president nor his family have ever engaged or will ever engage in conflicts of interest.

Just one last point for you. Richard Painter said, there's an easy solution here. He said, divest, right? Divest, not just from nuclear fusion, but from cryptocurrency and from social media. Does not look imminent. If anything, John, this is a business empire that is growing. It's not shrinking.

BERMAN: Matt Egan, appreciate it. Thank you.

EGAN: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: So, this morning, Chevy Chase like you have never seen him before. He is the focus of a brand new CNN documentary coming out on New Year's Day. I got to sit down with the "Saturday Night Live" legend and "Vacation" star to talk about his controversial career. And a warning here, he uses swear words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You keep saying -- you said at the very beginning, you keep saying you don't give a crap, but then you do give a crap.

CHEVY CHASE, ACTOR: Yes.

BERMAN: Which is it?

CHASE: I'm human, OK, you big shit. That's all. That's what it is. I'm not great. Just a human.

BERMAN: In the documentary you say people don't know the real you.

CHASE: They don't know that because we're actors and they don't know the real you either. We're all on TV. That's the most important thing in our lives, to be on the television, where we're more protected than others, where we'll live longer lives therefore. You can go through Darwin and figure out what it is about being on television or in a film that is so important to people who do it.

BERMAN: The documentary has a lot of highs and a lot of lows. What do you learn about the highs, first of all? Not the literal highs. That's a documentary also. But the high points.

CHASE: Looking back and excavating my life in a way, anything that makes you fearless and be fearless is the high point. The low point is fear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, let me tell you something, this documentary is phenomenal. It reveals so much. I promise you, you have not seen Chevy Chase like this before. "I'm Chevy Chase and You're Not" premieres New Year's Day at 8:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN, and the next day on the CNN app.

Sara.

SIDNER: I concur with you, John Berman. It is an incredible look. And you will laugh. You might even shed a tear. It's --

BERMAN: And he swore more at me during that interview, which everyone -- we're going to show more clips of it over the week.

SIDNER: Which, I hate to say this, but I fully endorse, OK.

BERMAN: Yes. Yes.

SIDNER: Speaking of which, still to come, what is the Grinch doing in sunny Florida? Perhaps the sunshine has grown his heart or not?

And it's not how you want to see a driverless car, confused, stalled in the middle of an intersection. So, what caused Waymo to go way wrong? The answer, next.

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[08:52:35] BOLDUAN: From President Trump's trade war jolting global markets to the oracle of Omaha stepping down after 60 years, it was an historic year in the world of business.

Vanessa Yurkevich takes you through the top ten business stories that defined 2025.

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VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Trump's trade war sends shockwaves across global markets. Two popular companies make changes that port (ph) controversy, while another is facing its own challenges as its CEO goes DOGE. And the oracle of Omaha takes his final bow. These are the top business stories of 2025.

Number ten, Warren Buffett retires. In May, a surprising announcement from America's most admired CEO.

WARREN BUFFETT: The time has arrived where Greg should become the chief executive officer.

YURKEVICH: Buffett is stepping down after more than 60 years at the helm of Berkshire Hathaway. The famed investor is a towering figure in American finance. Now 95, Buffett said no magic moment sparked the decision.

Number nine, a corporate facelift becomes an about face.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't like it. I wish that they would keep it the way that it is.

YURKEVICH: A new logo was a no go for Cracker Barrel. It quickly backpedaled in August after online backlash, even from the Oval Office, expressing outrage at the updated look. The company also canceled restaurant remodels, part of a turnaround plan for the struggling brand.

Number eight, Target tanks. It was a walk back of a different kind that put Target in the crosshairs after a rollback of so-called DEI initiatives in January.

REV. JAMAL H. BRYANT, LACKING TARGET BOYCOTT OVER DEI POLICIES: It would be less expensive and less cost if they would just do right by humanity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allow them to see our power.

YURKEVICH: Foot traffic fell nine percent year over year in the next month due to a consumer boycott. Another dent to earnings amid slumping sales and tariff pressure. The company still hasn't recovered, and CEO Brian Cornell is stepping down after 11 years on the job.

Number seven, Elon goes DOGE. It's been a tumultuous year for Tesla too. Elon Musk's company suffering slumping sales, stock price volatility -- CROWD: Elon Musk has got to go.

YURKEVICH: Protests, and at times even vandalism.

[08:55:02]

CROWD: Deport Musk.

YURKEVICH: Consumer backlash was aimed at Musk's work with President Donald Trump's administration as part of the Department of Government Efficiency.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You can't be penalized for being a patriot. And he's a great patriot.

YURKEVICH: Musk stepped away from the government in May, but despite a rocky year, this fall --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With over 75 percent voting in favor --

YURKEVICH: Tesla shareholders showed a vote of confidence in the CEO, awarding him the biggest pay package in corporate history.

ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA: If there's something incredible that's done, that compensation should match, that something incredible was done.

YURKEVICH: That puts Elon Musk in the express lane to potentially become the world's first trillionaire.

Number six, sticky inflation.

TRUMP: Prices are coming down very substantially on groceries and things.

YURKEVICH: Despite what the president says, and despite being a major factor in last year's election, inflation is still above two percent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With tariffs and all the things that are happening, there's a rise in costs.

YURKEVICH: Consumer sentiment is near record lows as Americans struggle with affordability.

Number five, the k-shaped economy or America's uneven recovery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you're the top of the k, you're pretty wealthy and you're doing pretty good right now. Stocks are near an all-time high, and that's padding your bottom line. But if you're making less than $100,000, you're not in that category. Inflation is really taking a bite and you're making some very difficult financial decisions right now.

YURKEVICH: Higher earners are weathering higher prices by trading down in where they shop, like Walmart. That's propping up spending, while lower income Americans are pulling back.

Number four, a shaky job market.

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS REPORTER: You can see how bumpy the ride has gotten recently. In fact, we now know that out of three -- three out of the last six months the economy has lost jobs.

YURKEVICH: The job market is slowing. June, August and October saw the first losses since the pandemic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Uncertainty really is the theme for 2025. It's been a big driver for why the economy has slowed down over the course of the year. And it is probably the blocker that is going to prevent hiring from picking up through the rest of the year.

YURKEVICH: Trump blamed the worse than expected job market on the commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics firing her in August.

TRUMP: We had no confidence. I mean the numbers were ridiculous.

YURKEVICH: He accused her, without evidence, of manipulating the monthly jobs reports for, quote, political purposes.

Number three, the Fed acts.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We begin with our major breaking economic news. The Federal Reserve announcing its decision on whether to make its first interest rate cut this year. And it's happening after months of pressure from President Trump.

YURKEVICH: Despite months of threats and taunts from President Trump, the Federal Reserve made the first of three rate cuts in September. The Fed held rates steady for nine straight months to assess how President Trump's tariff policy would impact jobs and inflation.

EGAN: And it does lower Fed rates to the lowest level in three years.

YURKEVICH: Interest rates affect what Americans pay for mortgages and other loans.

Number two, Wall Street's roller coaster. Over a single year, the major U.S. indices lost nearly 20 percent in market value in the spring, then gained it back a few months later.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stocks in a freefall on President Trump's decision to further escalate his trade war.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Wall Street closed last hour with the Dow above 48,000 for the very first time.

YURKEVICH: The market madness, driven by the president's on and off tariff policy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of much bigger things are going on, namely A.I.

YURKEVICH: A.I. is fueling a technology boom and a boom on trading floors led by Nvidia, whose market cap is approaching $5 trillion. But A.I.'s meteoric rise is fueling concerns of a bubble burst on the horizon.

And number one, the launch of a historic trade war.

TRUMP: This is one of the most important days, in my opinion, in American history. It's our declaration of economic independence.

YURKEVICH: With a signature on April 2nd, the United States entered a new era of trade policy, announcing steep tariffs on allies and enemies alike.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: The president declared a national economic emergency, and that allows him to really launch what many see as an escalating trade war. This is an historic move.

YURKEVICH: That historic move moving markets, sending countries scrambling for new trade deals with the U.S. and stoking concerns for business owners and customers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a business owner, you always have uncertainty. But these are -- these are things we didn't plan for.

YURKEVICH: But the U.S. Supreme Court is getting ready to rule on whether Trump's tariffs are legal, a precedent-setting ruling.

[09:00:00]

EGAN: The president clearly thinks that the stakes here are massive. He put up on Truth Social yesterday a post in which he said that this case presents "literally, life or death.