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Protesters Arrested Outside Minneapolis Federal Building; Trump: Would Invoke Insurrection Act In Minnesota "If I Needed It"; Alleged Charlie Kirk Assassin Tyler Robinson's Defense Argues To Disqualify Prosecutors From The Case; Incident Report: Renee Good Suffered 4 Apparent Gunshot Wounds. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 16, 2026 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, well, look, we don't know many of the details here. Hassett said that the president is likely to announce a plan next week at Davos, but the idea here is to allow people to tap their 401K to fund their down payments, right? Median home prices are $400,000 right now, so you're talking about $80,000 for a down payment. That is just too much for many people.

Currently, 401K withdrawals, they do face a penalty. But analysts say that if you were to change the rules here, that would likely require an act of Congress. Back to you, Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Yes. I mean, the other thing is a lot of retirement advisors would say don't use that money right now, because most Americans don't have enough money for retirement.

Matt Egan, thanks so much.

And a new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Well, new CNN polling is out on President Trump's job performance, and it shows this is a winter of discontent for a majority of Americans on a number of issues. What that could mean for Republicans ahead of the midterms.

More arrests and tense confrontations outside a federal building in Minneapolis being used as a staging facility by ICE agents, as we learn more about the moments after the mother, Renee Good, was shot by an ICE agent in the city.

And later, NASA is readying the rocket and spacecraft that could take four astronauts into space and eventually to boldly go where no one has gone before.

We are following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

And now to the breaking news in Minneapolis. Tensions continue to flare outside the federal building where ICE operates. Earlier today, we saw federal agents in tactical gear forcefully push protesters away from the street. At one point, at least five agents could be seen on top of one of those protesters. And meanwhile, President Trump has threatened to use the Insurrection Act to deploy troops to quell the protests. Earlier today, he didn't appear to back away from that warning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's been used a lot. And if I needed it, I'd use it. I don't think there's any reason right now to use it, but if I needed it, I'd use it. It's very powerful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right. CNN's Julia Vargas Jones joins us now.

What's the latest there on the ground, Julia?

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, that -- those arrests happened not that long ago, and now the -- the situation here is completely different. Those agents have gone back into the Whipple federal building, and tensions have just -- just subsided, at least for now. We know these things come and go.

But we did see at least four people getting detained, taken into this building. One of these persons who -- who was detained looked like she had been detained because she was very close to a vehicle, recording what was happening inside one of these federal agents' vehicles. She was surrounded by federal agents, arrested, taken in. And then, this is what she had to say when she came out and she spoke to us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANISE PARKER, MINNEAPOLIS RESIDENT: They said that I was obstructing the entrance, making it hard for cars to come in and out, but I wasn't the only one, so I felt really targeted. This is my first time out here, too. So, I don't know, maybe they just wanted to see who I was, get my name. They cited me and told me I had to go to court. I have a $250 fine. But (INAUDIBLE) ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Now, Pamela, agents have been very clear. The -- the main reason for them to come out and push is just to keep this road unobstructed so that vehicles can come in and out, but this is a part of why that kind of response. I mean, I will have to say that the -- from the video that we've shown you before, the amount of people here did not seem to warrant that kind of response. It was very quickly very forceful.

Of course, as we mentioned in the past hour, Gregory Bovino, head of the CBP, was here as well. There seems to be, at times, a show of force of -- of these agents. But again, they're keeping a very clear line. Do not leave the sidewalk. You can protest over here. Do not go into the streets. Then, we will see responses, and that could include arrest. It could include tear gas, like we saw last night. It could include pepper balls, like we saw multiple times since yesterday.

BROWN: All right. Julia Vargas Jones, thanks for bringing us the latest there on the ground. Jim?

SCIUTTO: So, we're just a few days away from the one-year mark on President Trump's second term, and brand--new CNN polling out today finds a majority of Americans are dissatisfied with what they've seen so far. According to the new poll, 58 percent feel the year has been a failure. Only 42 percent call it a success.

Kristen Holmes is live at the White House.

[15:05:03]

Kristen, I know you have more details on these numbers here. I'm also curious if the White House is looking at these numbers with some nervousness.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, President Trump is always looking at all polling. Now, of course, he says that when polls are not in his favor, that they are fake polls, rigged polls, or inaccurate polls. So, we haven't heard him comment on this.

But I can tell you that with nervousness, there are a lot of Republicans who are looking at this as we head into another midterm year. There are a lot of seats up for grabs and a lot of people running for reelection, trying to hold on to that slim majority in the House, when it comes to this midterm elections. And they know the -- the party in power generally has a harder time when it comes to the midterms. That's something President Trump himself has even conceded.

And they are concerned when it comes to the midterms as to how Republicans are going to do, and these numbers don't help alleviate any of those concerns.

But let's look at how this is broken down by party here. And unsurprisingly, it is very split by party. If you see here, it says Republicans view -- 89 percent think it was a success, whereas only 11 percent think it was a failure. Democrats, they say 7 percent think it was a success, while 93 percent say it was a failure.

But that middle number -- that is really the striking number there -- those independents. People who -- who don't always vote Republican, don't always vote Democrat. People who President Trump and all Republicans will be wanting to try and court as they head into the midterms. And 66 percent of those independent voters there say that the first year was a failure, compared to only 33 percent.

Now, I do want to talk about some of these hot-button issues, one of them, of course, being immigration, and see where President Trump is polling now compared to where he has been over the last several months. If you look at how Trump is handling immigration, approve versus disapprove, now you have only 42 percent of people who approve, compared to 58 percent disapproving. July, that number stays exactly the same, so nothing has changed since then.

And then April, you see that more people approve, 45 percent to 54. And in March, 51 to 48. So that is a pretty significant drop from March to now. Ten points more people just disapprove of his handling of immigration, which, of course, is his key issue, the issue he ran on. It's one of the issues he won on. And now you're seeing an enormous amount of people who disapprove of his handling of the issue.

SCIUTTO: Yes, on immigration and the economy notably.

Kristen Holmes at the White House, thanks so much.

Still to come, the man accused of killing Charlie Kirk is in court today. Why his defense team is moving to have the entire Utah County Attorney's Office disqualified from prosecuting the case.

Plus, President Trump is now threatening to put tariffs on countries that oppose his plan to simply take over Greenland.

And later, NASA is rolling out the rocket which will take four astronauts on an unprecedented path to the moon. That and much more coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:12:26]

SCIUTTO: Right now, a hearing is getting underway for the man accused of killing conservative activist Charlie Kirk. The defense seeking to disqualify prosecutors from the case. Tyler Robinson is charged with assassinating Kirk back on September 10th as he spoke at an event at Utah Valley University.

CNN's Nick Watt is in Utah covering today's hearings.

So, Nick, what is the defense's case for disqualifying the prosecution?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, we have just seen one of Tyler Robinson's lawyers stand up and begin to address this. So, what they say is the -- one of the deputy attorneys, his daughter, who was a college student at UVU, was there in the crowd that day Charlie Kirk was shot. Therefore, Tyler Robinson's defense team claim that he cannot be impartial, that he will be emotional on the issue, and therefore he should be removed from the case.

But not just him. They say the entire office should be removed because this one deputy, they say, shared this information -- some of it in real time, that he was getting text messages from his daughter -- shared that information with others in the office. Therefore, they are all tainted, and they should all be removed.

Now, the pushback from the county attorney is, listen, this young woman didn't even see the shot. She was turning away. She heard it. She didn't even know what had happened. She didn't know who was shot. She found that out a little bit later. And she has not suffered any long-term trauma as a result.

So, we are expecting a lot of today's hearing to be closed session, because that deputy attorney and his daughter will be testifying. So, we've -- what we've also seen so far today was the judge actually got -- there's a pool camera in that court -- the judge got the cameraman to come up and addressed him and said, do you understand all of the conditions under which you are operating? And the cameraman said yes.

Some of those conditions: The Tyler Robinson defense had asked, and the judge agreed, that Tyler Robinson be allowed to wear his own clothes in court, and that he not be shown on camera shackled. He has -- his right hand is free so he can take notes.

So, that issue of whether this entire case will be televised -- that is going to be dealt with further down the line at some point. The defense does not want this televised. Erika Kirk, Charlie Kirk's widow does. She has said, listen, my husband Charlie was shot in public. I would like all of this to be in public. Why not be transparent?

[15:15:02]

Now, the next steps in this -- we're expecting, I mean, listen, unless this county attorney's office is all disqualified -- right now, the schedule is May 18th. There is a three-day preliminary hearing set, when we expect that the prosecutors will lay out that case.

The case hinges on -- they have a lot of evidence they claim. They've got about 90 percent discovery done. Two key pieces they say that Tyler Robinson's DNA was on the weapon, which was recovered, and that also he basically confessed to the killing in Discord messages to his roommate, who was also a romantic partner.

The killing, of course, September 10th. Tyler Robinson was handed over to authorities the next day by his father, who had recognized his son on surveillance video that was released, recognized his son, spoke to a pastor, turned his own son in.

And right now, the county authorities here say they will be seeking death.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Nick, just very quickly, who decides whether there are cameras in the courtroom? Is that the judge's decision?

WATT: Judge -- judge will decide. And listen, that is a contentious issue. That -- that -- that -- that motion hasn't even been filed yet, but we expect that to be a real point of contention, whether this trial is televised or not. Of course, there is huge interest ...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WATT: ... both within this country and around the world, in this case.

The judge being very cautious, taking his time. He's a newish judge. He tends to listen to what's presented in these hearings and then take his time before delivering any verdict. He is very keen that this goes as smoothly and without controversy. SCIUTTO: Yes. Judges like to control their courtroom.

Nick Watt, thanks so much.

Well, just ahead, more on the rising tensions in Minneapolis. U.S. Customs and Border Protection commander Gregory Bovino has arrived outside the federal building where protesters have been clashing at times with federal agents. We're going to have a check-in coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:21:41]

BROWN: All right, back to the escalating tensions in Minneapolis. A short time ago, Border Patrol chief Gregory Bovino arrived right outside the Whipple Federal Building and walked with ICE agents as they approached many of the protesters who have been assembling, in an effort to keep them on the far side of the street.

President Trump, meantime, has threatened to invoke the Insurrection Act in Minnesota to stop protests, but today he said he doesn't see a reason to invoke the law right now.

Joining us is John Sandweg, former ICE acting director under President Obama.

Thanks for coming on.

What do you make of Greg Bovino showing up today at the federal building? What's the effect of that on the heels of this tense scene we saw earlier today?

JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ICE ACTING DIRECTOR UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Yes, Pamela, I think it only has a risk of really inflaming tensions here. I -- I've been really critical of the way in which DHS is using ICE and Border Patrol agents to secure these federal buildings. I would like to see some -- that they're the source of who the -- the protesters are there to protest against. And so, the idea of deploying them out front, it only escalates things.

And then the second concern I have is simply they're out of position. This is just not what ICE historically has done, not what they're trained to do, and certainly not what Border Patrol agents, who are largely trained to interdict people, you know, in the south -- the deserts of the southwest border -- are trained to do.

And I think a lot of the tension and a lot of the inflammation, you know, the -- the -- just the escalation we've been seeing out there, is a byproduct of how we're deploying those agents. But of course, putting Chief Bovino out there -- you know, for better or worse, he's become the face of these mass deportation, these surges that we've seen in L.A. You know, he's obviously played a prominent role in L.A., Chicago, and now Minneapolis. And, you know, unfortunately, it just seems antagonistic to put him there on the scene.

BROWN: At the same time, we're learning some new details about the shooting death of Renee Good from the incident report obtained by CNN. It says, in part, she had two apparent gunshot wounds to her right chest, one apparent gunshot wound to her left forearm -- forearm -- and a possible gunshot wound on the left side of her head, according to the report.

What is your takeaway for what we're learning there?

SANDWEG: Pamela, I think that just reinforces for me what I've been saying all along: you cannot rush the judgment on these events until you get all of the facts. And I think that's a significant development, a significant new fact. I think what, you know, it raises questions of whether there was a fourth shot.

Again, this is why it is really truly so irresponsible for anyone in law enforcement -- and I think why you've seen everyone with law enforcement experience saying, hey, you have to wait here and reserve judgment until you get all the facts, and there has to be a full investigation.

This doesn't -- you know, going back though for a second -- I mean, I think that investigation needs to include these other broader questions, though, about are the way in which we deploying these agents, and are -- is the way in which we're using the, you know, our resources here, A, most effective way of getting criminals off the street. I -- I have serious concerns that it's not.

But also, B, is it -- are we creating a higher likelihood of these types of interactions, and frankly assaults on agents as well, through these deployments where we, as I mentioned earlier, are putting these agents in positions and in situations they just are not trained to do or historically have dealt with.

BROWN: Let's talk a little bit more about that, because as you point out, these agents are in situations, such as doing crowd control, that they're not typically involved with, right? They're typically involved with targeted operations based on intelligence to arrest those who are in the country illegally, primarily with a criminal background.

[15:25:03]

So, what does that do to them when they're in these situations, knowing the backdrop is -- or has been -- an increase of attacks or assaults against ICE officers? DHS has been talking about that. So, knowing that, and then being in these situations where it can be chaotic and, you know, difficult to control, bring us into the -- what the mindset might be like for one of those officers.

SANDWEG: Yes, you know, I have to tell you that the -- I firmly believe, and everybody I worked with at ICE, they didn't come into work looking to use -- use excessive force or to be involved in any shooting or to cause any harm. The -- the overwhelming majority of ICE and Border Patrol agents we have today, right, want to make the country safer.

The problem is this: traditionally, the agency -- most of the arrests, the majority of ICE's arrests throughout the history of the agency, have come from individuals who were already in custody, individuals in state and local jails or federal prisons, or individuals that were apprehended by the Border Patrol. That the at--large operations that ICE conducted were typically, as you said, targeted.

So, going into that operation, we knew exactly who we were going for. We knew his criminal -- his or her criminal history. We knew his or her immigration history. Agents weren't in a position of having to, you know, quickly decide whether they have reasonable suspicion as to whether someone is undocumented, whether they have the legal basis to detain them or ID them.

And while they're -- I'm not saying I didn't engage in traffic stops, certainly they did. On the pure immigration enforcement side, those were relatively rare.

What we're seeing now, though, is again we've changed our deployments. And I -- I think the only discernible reason we would do that is in order to drive up arrests -- more canvassing-style operations. And the administration likes to say they're targeted, and perhaps they are, but they're not certainly not targeted in the way historically what the agency has done with that careful, intelligence-driven, you know, vetting process.

But we put these agents on the street where they're much more akin to patrol officers. They're encountering, you know, these protesters. A lot of that's a byproduct as well, Pam. Look, our -- you know, this public announcements we've done of these deployments in advance of the deployments, which allows the protesters to get organized and, frankly, allows some bad apples to plan to cause these agents harm.

But all of this is a radical departure from where the agents are, so separate and apart from what the officer's justification was in those milliseconds when he's got to make that incredibly tough decision to say, is this -- is there -- is there a legitimate threat on my life or the life of others?

The -- the bigger question is have we, you know, increased the risks of those scenarios happening by putting officers who don't have as much training in that -- in those kind of encounters, or in dealing with the public -- in a position where they're going to be making these tough choices without that, you know, without that basis of experience and training.

KEILAR: Let me just follow up on that, because I actually did a ride- along with ICE 10 years ago with Tom Homan. He was there with us. He is now the border czar. And I went out with them. There were a few of them. It was very targeted. It was based on intelligence they had. We started in the middle of the night. They were trying to get their -- their targets ...

SANDWEG: Yes.

BROWN: ... while it was still dark out before they went to work.

What -- what I'm seeing there on the ground is so different, in large part because of the sweeps, you know, we're seeing from ICE agents, right? And even the gear they're wearing -- the masks. And, of course, they claim -- they say they're wearing the masks because they fear for their safety.

But what is the training for these ICE agents when it comes to dealing with protesters and protecting their First Amendment rights, and really understanding the Constitution and the protections afforded to those protest -- protesters under the Constitution?

SANDWEG: Yes, Pamela, you hit the nail on the head. I mean, that's the -- why that kind of policing is so difficult. There are constitutional protections, right? You have a right -- freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom to, you know, the right to petition the government for redress of your grievances.

So, it is a complicated policing that typically -- well, you went on the ride-along. You saw exactly what happens. Typically, there's a -- there's a very carefully crafted plan. The targeting has all been done. You have a -- maybe multiple targets, but you -- you meet up, you know. I mean, the team gets together very early in the morning. You're going to the houses. You're chasing down the -- the particular fugitive or the -- the person with the criminal history, right, you know exactly what to expect, you know the risk level, everything else. It's -- everything we're seeing that is different, that's switching to the protests.

That, as I said, it's just something that is foreign to ICE, right? I was asked -- someone asked me about the use of tear gas and pepper sprays and how often would you guys use it. We -- it never came up, because we didn't encounter protests. Our operations were conducted in a way that were, like you said, dead of night, quick in and out. You didn't have protesters form.

All of this idea -- we put these agents in a really tough spot. And I'm very sympathetic to -- to their -- their position. They're out there trying to enforce the law, engaged in -- forced to engage in tactics that are -- that are foreign to them. And now done in a way that has allowed these protests to form. All of that is incredibly difficult.

And again, I think that the overwhelming majority of these agents are operating in good faith. They're just in a very tough position that's outside of anything they've ever done before.

BROWN: Well, I will tell you, 10 years ago when I went out with them, the ones that I -- I was with -- and of course there were cameras there -- but they were very respectful in their interactions and very ...

SANDWEG: Yes.

BROWN: ... very professional.

[15:30:01]

John Sandweg, thank you very much.

Well, new CNN polling finds a majority of Americans think President Trump is focused on the wrong priorities.