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NATO Chief Assures Trump, Your Allies Will Be With You; House Oversight Committee Moves Ahead With Contempt Vote on Clintons; Ghislaine Maxwell to Be Deposed February 9 in House Epstein Probe; E.U. Suspends Work on U.S. Trade Deal Indefinitely; Major Storm to Lash U.S. With Damaging Ice, Heavy Snow. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired January 21, 2026 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": -- and what you just heard the NATO Secretary General say to him.

JIM TOWNSEND, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR EUROPEAN AND NATO POLICY: Well, it was interesting the Secretary General really has to walk this narrow line now between being too friendly, too appeasing, if you will, of Trump on the one hand, while on the other hand, trying to be tough. So the allies, I think, have been critical of the Secretary General saying, you are doing too much to curry favor.

But at the same time, they need him to push back on things that are wrong, that the president is saying. So he was walking that narrow line. He wasn't going -- he was going to keep Trump alongside, but he wanted to make sure that the points were made where the president was wrong. And I think he did a good job doing that.

ERICA HILL, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": I thought it was also fascinating, too, when President Trump was asked a question specifically about the Danish, I believe he was saying about the Danish Prime Minister who had responded, saying in response to what President Trump had said earlier, and President Trump saying, basically, it doesn't matter if you are telling me second hand. Until I hear it directly from Danish officials, I won't believe it.

Is it your sense that these traditional tactics that President Trump has used are still working, or are you starting to see a shift in the way European officials are responding?

TOWNSEND: I'm certainly seeing a shift, particularly the speeches we heard yesterday. Canadian Prime Minister, Carney, his speech has just blown up the internet. Everyone is waving it around. So I think the allies have decided, appeasing Trump, like the Secretary General has done in the past, appeasing him doesn't get us anywhere. And if anything, it shows a weakness to Trump.

So I think they have lost their patience and they've kind of crossed a line now where they're saying, we are not going to just sit around and toady to him. We're going to be tough, and we're going to look for ways around what he is saying we can't do. We're going to look around to make sure that there are actions that we can take, like putting troops into Greenland or doing other things, maybe at NATO or in the E.U. They're more action oriented now than they were a few months ago.

KEILAR: Yeah. Carney is saying for middle powers, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu and basically saying, you know, the old world order isn't coming back. And that is why he is capturing so much attention. I do wonder what you thought of the president saying he is going to be discussing this issue of Greenland with the NATO Secretary General because he said quite -- he is, frankly, more important. What did you think of that?

TOWNSEND: Oh, it is just an insult to the Danes. You know, he seems -- his speech earlier today was full of kind of rude insults. And he is just continuing that. He seems to be slamming the Danes at a time when that's not going to be helpful. It fires them up, and they don't deserve it, quite frankly.

And your point, I think, is really important also about, that the old ways are -- we can't go back to the old ways. That's not going to happen. You know, this is something I'm hearing now from allies that they're not going to wait for a new election or, you know, that might bring in a Democrat who might say, I'm back. And they don't believe that anymore. They don't think that is possible anymore.

So, there has been damage already done in terms of the unity and in terms of the views that allies have towards the United States that is going to stick around no matter what happens in the elections to come. There's going to be hedging. There's going to be attempts to try to not be so dependent on the United States.

And that's good, actually, though. There was a dependency that needed to be broken or diluted at a minimum. And I think what we're seeing among the allies now is that's the path they're going to take. How they go about that, how long it'll take, and who in Europe will lead this is all open questions, but they're all talking about it now.

KEILAR: Jim Townsend, great to speak with you. Thank you so much for being with us. And next, we do have an update in the Jeffrey Epstein case. We are live from Capitol Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:38:39]

HILL: The House Oversight Committee is moving forward with a vote to hold former President, Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton in contempt for refusing to testify in the congressional probe into Jeffrey Epstein.

Now, CNN has learned that attorneys for the Clintons offered a last- minute limited in-person interview with the top two lawmakers who are leading this investigation. That offer, though, was rejected by the Republican Chairman. CNN Senior Reporter Annie Grayer is on Capitol Hill with more of the very latest here.

So there is that moment and then there's also some news about Ghislaine Maxwell, apparently, appearing before Congress. Walk us through these developments, Annie.

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: So the House Oversight Committee is meeting now to answer the question, will Congress move forward with holding the Clintons in contempt? And we've seen some competing dynamics play out here. Republicans are pretty adamant that they have given the Clintons five months to negotiate. They've changed the date multiple times and argued that it's not up to the Clintons to set the terms here, that Congress issued them a subpoena.

And the Committee that is led by Republicans wants the Clintons to sit for in-person depositions on Capitol Hill. Now, the Clintons did not appear for their depositions last week, which is why Republicans have initiated these contempt of Congress proceedings. Now, Democrats in this committee have said, look, we want to hear from the Clintons too.

We want to learn more about the former president's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. But they say that -- they're asking the Republicans a question, why are they seemingly holding the Clintons to a different standard than some of the other individuals who were subpoenaed in this investigation?

[13:40:00]

They're asking the Republicans a question, why are they seemingly holding the Clintons to a different standard than some of the other individuals who were subpoenaed in this investigation, but were allowed to give written declarations instead of appearing for an in- person interview? Take a listen to how the top Democrat on the committee and the top Republican went back and forth on this issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER, (R-KY) CHAIR, OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: Are you willing to accept those bullet points as testimony or do you want to hear from Clinton?

REP. ROBERT GARCIA, (D-CA) RANKING MEMBER, OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: I want to hear from President Clinton.

COMER: Then I don't know what the point is of talking about their bullet points. I mean, we all know they had a relationship. So --

GARCIA: That's right. I'm just responding to the fact that you mentioned that you're dismissing other legal subpoenas with one- sentence answers. And you're the one that pointed out the Clinton's declaration, which is also under penalty of perjury.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRAYER: Now, while we're waiting for the Oversight Committee to take its final vote on whether to move forward with the Clintons in contempt, Oversight Chair, James Comer did announce that the Committee will have a deposition with Epstein co-conspirator, Ghislaine Maxwell on February 9th, who is currently serving her sentence for crimes related to the Epstein sex trafficking scandal. So that was a big development there, but we are still waiting to see how the Oversight Committee is going to vote on the contempt resolutions for Bill and Hillary Clinton. And as you mentioned, the Clintons offered a last-minute offer to the Committee, in which the top Democrat and Republican on the Oversight Committee would be able to travel to New York for an interview.

But Comer rejected that offer, said it wasn't going to be open to all members, he was concerned about there being a transcript. The Clinton said that they were open to that transcript. So you can see negotiations were potentially going on as recently as yesterday, but Comer has decided he's ready to move forward with contempt. We're waiting to see the final outcome of that vote, because next, it would head to the House floor.

HILL: All right, Annie, really appreciate the update as we continue to follow all these twists and turns. Thank you.

America's largest trading partner hitting back and forcefully after President Trump threatens new tariffs unless he is given Greenland. What the European Union just announced on trade and the impact it could have on your wallet. That's next.

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[13:46:53]

HILL: The European Union is responding to President Trump's threats to impose additional tariffs on countries that reject his push to control Greenland. The European Parliament says it is now suspending its work on a major trade deal with the United States.

KEILAR: One top E.U. trade official posting on social media, "E.U.- U.S. deal is on hold until further notice." Adding, "business as usual impossible." We're joined now by Justin Wolfers. He's a Professor of Economics and Public Policy at the University of Michigan. We're also joined by Douglas Holtz-Eakin. He served as Chief Economist on the White House Council of Economic Advisers under President George W. Bush. He's also the president of the American Action Forum.

All right, guys. So Doug, first, this trade deal on hold, what could that mean immediately for Americans? What does it mean for this situation?

DOUGLAS HOLTZ-EAKIN, CHIEF ECONOMIST, WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS UNDER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, it was the way to get out of the tariffs that the president initially levied against Europe, get to a trade deal, bring the tariffs down. That reduces the damage to American consumers from those tariffs. That's now off, which presumably means that the president's tariffs go back to the original levels. Hard to say.

He's also threatened additional tariffs beginning at 10%, going up to 25%. The real issue is the major rupture of the traditional relationship between the U.S. and Europe on trade and international relations. And what we're seeing now is people reaching out to other partners.

Canada is talking to China about a trade deal. Europe talking to China about a trade deal, all of which is a reconfiguration of the global trading arrangements at the expense of the United States. And that's the real threat.

HILL: I mean, Europe also talking about looking inward. We had Christine Lagarde saying, it's good to have a plan B. We're 450 million strong here in Europe. We need to have a sense of what that might look like.

Earlier today, Justin, U.S. Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessent talked about Denmark after Denmark noted that its pension fund, it was going to unwind its investment that it has in U.S. government bonds. It accounts for about $100 million there. But Bessent said basically, it's irrelevant, that Denmark and its investment in the U.S. are irrelevant, and went on to say that he didn't think Europe would dump American assets.

So, Europe collectively holds about $8 trillion in American treasuries. It's actually the largest financer of U.S. debt. Bessent says that won't happen because it would defy logic. Does it still defy logic in this moment, Justin?

JUSTIN WOLFERS, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS & PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: Yeah, so it's very easy in these international relations to talk as if countries are actors, but actually countries are not doing much of the work. Who holds American bonds? It's not Europe. It's not the German government. It's individual Germans. It's individual German families or funds. (Inaudible) the Italians and so on.

And so the idea that there would just be an order from Brussels, everyone drop your bonds, that's not going to happen. Now, what could happen and what is happening around the world is people are looking at the United States, which traditionally held U.S. government bonds because it was seen as the most secure asset in the world, doesn't look so secure right now. America's position in the world and the global financial system are very much under re-evaluation. And that, I think, here is the real threat.

[13:50:00]

HILL: It's also, if we bring China into the conversation here, it's really recasting in many ways. The world is looking at China, not just based on what we saw with Canada last week, but China really trying to capitalize on this moment, Doug. How effective is China right now?

HOLTZ-EAKIN: Well, in economics, all things are relative. And China was not a particularly attractive partner for many of these countries until we got into this episode over Greenland. And now, compared to the United States, they're looking more attractive. And it's a large market. It's never been one that Western economies have been able to exploit to their full desire.

But they're going to talk and see if they can make some deal with China because it's the next best partner. And I think the president should be concerned about this. He has made a great deal about his ability to take control of Venezuela and perhaps get rid of a footprint by China in our hemisphere.

Well, he's offering them a footprint above our northern border. That's a very unattractive relationship. And I think he ought to look hard at where we are with Canada.

KEILAR: Justin, how do you see the benefits to America? I mean, Trump is trying to sell Americans that this is the way to go. How do you see it?

WOLFERS: Mate, goodness gracious me, which one of us woke up last night and thought to ourselves, (inaudible), my life is incomplete without a Greenland? You know, there's a sheet of ice on the other side of the world. It's got nothing to do with me. Boy, I wish we had it. So look, rupturing our place in the world, rupturing security alliances, rupturing American alliances, both militarily and economically, for Greenland. Greenland? Wow, that was on no one's bingo card, was it? I don't think it serves American interests well.

And that's actually something you've seen over the last few weeks, which is the president has gotten a lot of bad press. And it's because a lot of what he's been pushing on doesn't even serve the interests of his MAGA base. This is something that's very hard to see why it's in the interests of ordinary Americans.

HILL: Justin Wolfers, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, good to have you both this afternoon. Thank you.

Sure, go ahead.

HOLTZ-EAKIN: Thank you. No, I just think, to explain what Justin said, the president could get everything he wants without even buying Greenland. The Danes were happy to provide military assistance, happy to give a footprint for Americans.

We could get everything he claims is a benefit with none of these costs. And that's the great irony of this whole situation.

HILL: Sort of the great mystery in many ways too, isn't it? Gentlemen, thank you again.

We are closely monitoring the weather situation. Parts of the U.S. could see more than a foot of snow and inches of catastrophic ice. We're talking about nearly half the country here that's set to be hit by one of the most extreme winter storms we've seen in years. That's next.

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[13:57:26]

HILL: You think it's cold now? Prepare yourselves. Brutal cold is on the way for millions across the United States, a major winter storm set to bring damaging ice and heavy snow along with those frigid temperatures. It's set to hit later this week, and the impacts could last potentially for a number of days. So understandably, preparations are underway.

We are looking at major travel disruptions on the roads, at the airports. CNN Meteorologist, Allison Chinchar is standing by. So I'm a little worried, I'm not going to lie. This feels like a lot. Brianna and I are stocking up on our ice melt. But this is such a large swath of the country, Allison.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I think that's really the key point, is just how many people are going to be impacted by this particular storm. I mean, you've got snow that stretches from the Rocky Mountains all the way over to the Atlantic Ocean. Again, and all of the millions and millions of people in between.

So you've got kind of the main breakdown here, which is the purple color indicating just snow. That's really all those folks are going to get. The green indicating just rain. And then this pink color in between is kind of a little bit of a mix of everything. And in fact, most of these areas, it will start as rain. Then you'll see the transition to either snow or ice or a combination of both.

So that's also why you have this huge swath here of winter storm watches that are in effect. Again, you're talking millions and millions of people that are going to see the impact from this storm as it makes its way from the Southern Plains all the way over and up through New England. So here's a look at the timing.

Again, the main thing really starts on Friday. So here's a look at Friday evening. You can already start to see the changeover taking place across portions of northern Texas, Oklahoma and into Kansas. Then as we transition into Saturday and the system starts to make its way a little farther east, you obviously also start to see more of that winter precipitation filling back in.

So more of the pink, more of the purple color showing up onto the map. Then we get to Saturday evening and even some southern cities starting to see as those temperatures cool down, the changeover into that ice mix. And that's going to be a big concern. Then you get over into Sunday morning. Now you're talking to Carolinas, Virginia now starting to see some of that winter precipitation.

For a lot of these areas, those temperatures are going to be so close to that freezing mark, likely between 28 and say 35 degrees. And we all know, just a slight fluctuation in those temperatures could change entirely of what these areas get. Not to mention the models aren't exactly in perfect alignment either.

You've got one of them that has more of a northern track, which actually allows for a lot of these areas to get pretty significant amounts of snow. But then you also have the more southerly track, which means cities like Charlotte, Columbia, even Atlanta getting significant amounts of ice. So right now, there's a little bit of flexibility in terms of exactly who's going to get the worst conditions.

And we're likely going to need at least one more day of model data to really start to get more of a concise agreement on what the forecast is going to be. --