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Trump: "We're Going To De-Escalate A Little Bit" In Minnesota; Man Charged With Assault After Spraying Substance At Rep. Omar; Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY) On Growing Calls To Fire DHS Secretary Kristi Noem. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 28, 2026 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:30:55]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. This morning the blame game inside the Trump administration.

While the president says things in Minneapolis are going to "de- escalate a bit." Homeland Security Sec. Kristi Noem and Stephen Miller, the president's powerful adviser, are taking heat over the deadly shooting of Alex Pretti and their statements after it.

Miller described Pretti as a would-be assassin. Noem described him as a domestic terrorist. The videos clearly refuted those claims. And now Noem is facing growing bipartisan calls to resign. And Miller, in a rare retreat, is acknowledging agents may have breached protocol -- protocol that he set or the White House set before the shooting.

With us now CNN's Betsy Klein and Jeff Zeleny.

And first, I just want to hold up a flow chart and my understanding of the blame game here. There you can see, you know, Homeland Security Sec. Kristi Noem is blaming Stephen Miller. Stephen Miller seems to be blaming Customs and Border Protection.

Betsy, you're at the White House. Do I have that flow chart correct?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I think that's about an accurate assessment, John.

And I just want to point to you -- you two this very remarkable statement to our colleague Kristen Holmes from Stephen Miller yesterday. As you said, in the immediate aftermath of federal agents killing of Alex Pretti on Saturday we heard Stephen Miller go to social media and almost immediately he referred to Pretti as "a domestic terrorist" -- also, a would-be assassin. And you can believe that he was behind a lot of the messaging that was coming from this White House.

But then last night in this statement to our colleague Kristen Holmes, he says, "The White House had provide clear guidance to DHS that the extra personnel that had been sent to Minnesota for force protection should be used for conductive -- to conducting fugitive operations to create a physical barrier between the arrest teams and the disruptors." He goes on to say, "We are evaluating why the CBP team may not have been following that protocol."

He also says that some of the original statements that were coming from the Department of Homeland Security were "based on reports from CBP on the ground." So clearly, shifting blame there and notably not disputing that he was involved in those statements.

BERMAN: But not apologizing for them either, correct, Betsy?

KLEIN: Absolutely right.

BERMAN: OK, and that's important because he said those things. He's blaming now CBP for giving him the information that led to those statements, but he is not apologizing.

Jeff, bigger picture here. When you take a step back this is very unusual from this Trump administration or either -- any Trump administration, for that matter. They have really conducted now about three retreats in the last week by my count. First on Greenland -- you know, first, the idea of no military action. Definitely going to own. Now, meh, maybe not so much. The president had to backtrack on saying NATO troops weren't on the front lines in Afghanistan. And now clearly, backing off a little bit in Minneapolis.

That's a lot different than we've seen before from this administration, Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: John, it absolutely is. It's not only unusual, it just hasn't happened, particularly on immigration.

Look, this was intended to be a strength for President Trump. It always has been. It's one of the things that helped get him elected in the first place back in 2016 and certainly re-elected in 2024. Now immigration is viewed by Republicans as a weakness for this administration. That explains the flow chart that you were pointing out earlier.

Stephen Miller isn't doing this simply because he's suddenly had a change of heart. He's doing this because even a few Republicans and a growing -- a small but growing number of Republicans are beginning to confront, and challenge, and question this administration.

It is all coming, of course, as the very -- as the very mission in Minnesota is being reviewed. And it's a funding review from ICE, of course. It could lead to a government shutdown at the end of the week. We shall see.

But Stephen Miller knows the president is unhappy about this. That's why he is sort of backpedaling here.

But the bigger picture -- it's not just optics here. Is policy actually going to change? And that is very much unclear.

[07:35:00]

One huge difference from this administration versus the first Trump administration -- he's very reluctant to fire anyone. In the first administration people were being fired all the time, week by week. That has not happened, so I do not expect any firings here. But this is a dramatic change of a position here.

And keep your eye on Stephen Miller. He's viewed as liability in some circles here. He's very close to the president. I don't expect him to go anywhere. But that statement that Betsy was reading is extraordinary because we have never seen a retreat like that from him.

BERMAN: Yeah.

And Betsy, just -- you know, I'll hold up the flow chart once again since Jeff just celebrated it here. Where is the president in this flow chart? Who exactly does the president blame among these three choices?

KLEIN: Well, I think the president's message here is that he's trying to de-escalate. He is trying to -- we've seen him even talk to Gov. Tim Walz and Mayor Jacob Frey in the aftermath. And the president now is essentially saying that those calls are cordial and constructive.

But when we ask if this is a substantive or a symbolic change, the White House is still actively blaming Democrats. We heard from Karoline Leavitt saying that this is a deliberate and hostile resistance by Democrat officials, blaming the Pretti killing by -- on Democrats.

But the question is going to be what is the change on the ground in Minneapolis here? And President Trump is appearing to indicate that there might be some more substantive changes. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

BERMAN: Yeah. Based on how Tom Homan has described the conversations with Tim Walz and the mayor there, and they both have described it -- there is a bit of substantive difference there merely in the dialogue.

And very quickly, Jeff, while I still have you here, you know, Republicans on Capitol Hill -- how far do you think they're willing to take their criticism?

ZELENY: Well, we will see. I mean, I'd say a growing number but it's still a very small number of people. But I think the Senate Majority Leader John Thune was interesting yesterday. He called this an "inflection point."

So everyone is calling for an investigation and more oversight into ICE. Again, that is not something we saw after the Renee Good shooting. So this is a different moment. There is no doubt about it. But again, to Betsy's point, will policies change on the ground? Again, what was a strength of the administration is now a political weakness -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Betsy Klein, Jeff Zeleny, great to see you both this morning.

Let's go back to Sara in Minneapolis.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thank you so much, John.

Let's bring in CNN law enforcement analyst and former deputy director of the FBI, Andy McCabe. Thank you for being here.

First, let's talk about what happened in the room in the town hall that Congresswoman Ilhan Omar had last night. We were in the room. We watched this all happen. A man jumped up and used a syringe. There was something in the syringe. He sprayed it towards her -- some kind of substance -- and then she actually lunged at him and then her detail jumped on him, taking him out of the room.

First of all, I just am curious because her detail was trying to tell her look, we want to take you out of here. We want to get you to a safe space, and we want to get you checked and she refused.

Is -- I'm curious if that's something that you would advise.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR, FBI (via Webex by Cisco): No. I don't think any security or law enforcement --

SIDNER: Yeah.

MCCABE: -- or anybody with time in law enforcement or security would advise that. I mean, I -- honestly, I give her huge points for courage, and she clearly is putting forth a fight back sort of face that's very important to her constituents right now.

But that is the last thing any security wants to do is have their principal or their protectee inserting themselves into a confrontation with -- you know, with you -- with you don't know what. This is someone who is unhinged, who has clearly been motivated --

SIDNER: Yeah.

MCCABE: -- to strike out violently. So yeah, it's not the kind of thing you want to see.

SIDNER: Not ideal.

Into the investigation, what would normally happen in an investigation like this because obviously there was some kind of a liquid substance that came out of that syringe? What would investigators typically do in a -- in a situation like this? What would police do?

MCCABE: Sure. So they would first start by seizing any evidence of the attack. That's obviously going to be the clothing that she was wearing. They would then take the representative or whoever the victim was to a full medical evaluation just to make sure that she's not suffering from any sort of symptoms or things that maybe she's not even noticing in the moment, in the adrenalin, and that sort of thing. And then they would conduct an in deep -- you know, an in-depth analysis on the sample of the -- of the -- of the -- whatever the substance is that was sprayed on her at that time. And depending on how that analysis comes out, you know, that will affect actually what sort of crime this person could be charged with.

[07:40:00]

If it's some sort of, you know, common household chemical, that's one thing. But if it's, you know -- and I am not suggesting that this is the case; I'm just saying for example, if it were some sort of known chemical -- some known chemical weapon or a -- or a biological toxin then that would -- that could turn into a very different charge.

Obviously, the offender has been taken into custody. He is going to be fully investigated and prosecuted, I would expect.

SIDNER: Right. Yeah. We saw that happen. We know that she spoke with police afterwards. There is an investigation. And we know that she also got medical checks. An ambulance came up outside, so we know that she has been checked out.

I do want to lastly leave you with this. We heard in an exclusive interview by Anderson Cooper from the woman that everyone is calling the "Pink Jacket Lady" because that's the color of her jacket. She was the person that took the clearest video of the shooting death at the hands of border patrol agents of Alex Pretti. Her name is Stella Carlson, and she came forward to speak with Anderson.

I just want to let you listen to a bit of what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STELLA CARLSON, RECORDED CRITICAL VIDEO OF FATAL ALEX PRETTI SHOOTING: And that I represent all of us because we all have a story and we all have a reason in which we decide to go to the street and open our phones and video record. And I just feel called to be somebody to show my face and represent that. We ask the ICE agents and all of the people in the streets who are infiltrating and making us unsafe to do the same thing. So this is an opportunity for me to show my face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: So we now know that the FBI director went on a podcast and said that they are now investigating the apparatus for which people like her ended up at the border patrol action that they were trying to do. They're going to be looking into their Signal.

What do you -- what do you make of that? They're investigating those who were involved in the area. There was no riot. There isn't -- there wasn't even a protest. They were just there recording and letting people know that federal agents were in the area.

MCCABE: Yeah, Sara. It pains me to say this, but the current leadership of the FBI has turned the organization and its mission and its focus completely upside-down.

We also know from that interview that this essential witness to a possible homicide by federal agents has not even been contacted by the federal government. So we know they're not doing the sort of investigation that the FBI has always done, and that is to invest for a possible criminal violation under what we call a "color of law" offense. You know, excessive force by a police officer.

What they are doing is attacking people who are -- who are exercising their First Amendment rights. And thank God for those people because if they weren't out there putting themselves at risk and taking that video, we wouldn't be able to believe what we are seeing with our eyes. We would be stuck with nothing but the disinformation that this administration keeps putting out about this incident.

SIDNER: Andy McCabe, do appreciate you coming and to talk through us -- through this with us this morning -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Sara. We'll be back to you shortly.

So the clock is ticking down to Friday's deadline to avoid another government shutdown, something that is a real possibility after Senate Democrats have said that they will not vote for the funding bills at hand unless and until the measure for DHS funding is stripped out and renegotiated. They want real reforms, they say. Some of the reporting today from Punchbowl is that Senate Republicans are now deal-hunting with skeptical Democrats on this.

As we have also seen at the very same time, it's very clear from Republicans -- of Republican -- a clear break of Republicans on the Hill from the White House and its immigration enforcement operations in a more distinct way than we've really seen before perhaps after the shooting death of Alex Pretti.

Joining me now to talk about this is the Democratic leader in the House, Hakeem Jeffries. Leader, thank you for -- so much for being here.

I want to ask you first about Ilhan Omar, the congresswoman. You heard -- Sara has done extensive -- she was in the room at the time. Um, Capitol Police have spoken out and said this is a horrendous and this man should be brought to the -- have the toughest charges brought against him possible.

The president spoke overnight about this and admitted that he had not seen the video but told ABC News "She probably had herself sprayed, knowing her."

What's your reaction to this?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Well, that's a disgusting comment and the president's lies and misinformation continue to fan the flames of these types of violent incidents. And it's at a moment like this where we actually need leadership from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and it's something that we never get from this president. Ilhan Omar, of course, is a strong, courageous, hardworking public servant. This should have never happened. I'm thankful that she is physically OK. She's mentally strong, as is always the case, and we stand by her.

[07:45:08]

BOLDUAN: Much more to learn about all of that still.

You posted yesterday with regard to DHS -- what's happening in Minneapolis -- the Secretary of Homeland Security. You put out a statement yesterday that said, "Dramatic changes at the Department of Homeland Security are needed. Kristi Noem should be fired immediately, or we will commence impeachment proceedings. We can do this the easy way or the hard way."

Does that mean you now support the effort to try and impeach Kristi Noem?

JEFFRIES: Yeah. Donald Trump needs to fire Kristi Noem immediately. We know that she is a malignant, corrupt, pathological liar. She's unqualified. She never should have been confirmed by Republicans in the United States Senate. She is creating harm to the American people. Taxpayer dollars are actually being used by the Department of Homeland Security to kill American citizens --

BOLDUAN: So, short --

JEFFRIES: -- and to brutalize well-abiding immigrant families. It's unacceptable. So she's got to go.

BOLDUAN: Short of him firing -- OK, short of him firing her --

JEFFRIES: Yes.

BOLDUAN: -- you support moving towards impeachment now?

JEFFRIES: We will -- we will commence impeachment proceedings against Kristi Noem in the absence of her being fired.

BOLDUAN: Do you want to force a vote unilaterally or do you want to launch an investigation in the minority?

JEFFRIES: Well, we're in conversation with Bennie Thompson, Jamie Raskin, and Robert Garcia about next steps in the process. We want to make the case to the American people as to why Kristi Noem's continued leadership creates problems in terms of the health, the safety, and the well-being of the American people. And we'll do that in ways that Democrats have done in the past, even though we're in the minority, because the issue --

BOLDUAN: Well, and that's --

JEFFRIES: -- was significant enough.

We've held hearings on other issues such as the cost of living, protecting Social Security, the health care of the American people. We can hold hearings as it relates to how destructive Kristi Noem's continued presence will be.

BOLDUAN: Virtue signaling and a messaging operation is -- can be worthwhile, especially when you're trying to speak to the public. But is that enough if that's what this ends up being?

JEFFRIES: Congress has the power to impeach someone who has committed crimes against the Constitution and the American people. So it's not virtue signaling. And as you --

BOLDUAN: But when you are a majority --

JEFFRIES: Well, no, no. Well, no.

BOLDUAN: But when you are in the -- in the majority.

JEFFRIES: Well, as you know, the impeachment process is one of the few areas where every single member have the -- has the privilege to bring a resolution to the floor of the House of Representatives and at the appropriate time force an up or down vote.

By the way, even though we've been in the minority, we've compelled Republicans to move legislation to release the Epstein files. We've compelled Republicans to move legislation to wipe away one of Trump's most toxic executive orders, which is stripping rights away from more than a million different hardworking federal employees -- collective bargaining rights.

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

JEFFRIES: And, of course, House Democrats, against all odds, were able to move a clean extension of the Affordable Care Act tax credits in the minority. And all 213 House Democrats were joined by 17 Republicans to protect the health care of the American people.

If we've done it before we can do it again.

BOLDUAN: On this issue many Republicans are not OK with what they are seeing in Minneapolis either. As I mentioned, this seems a break from the president on this immigration effort in a bigger way than we have seen before.

I mean, John Thune, yesterday, called this moment after Alex Pretti's death an inflection point.

I want to play for you also what Thom Tillis said because he is now the first, I would say -- I think it's the first in his party to call for Noem's firing. Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I think if Noem looks at her body of work, I could not be -- if I were in her position I can't think of any point of pride over the last year. She has taken this administration into the ground on an issue that we should own. We should own the issue of border security and immigration, but they have destroyed that for Republicans. Something that got the president elected -- they have destroyed it through their incompetence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Bipartisanship is not something we find on Capitol Hill very often, for sure. Do you see an ally in Thom Tillis?

JEFFRIES: Well, Thom Tillis is correct in his observations. The administration has been a disaster for the American people. They have failed on the economy. Failed to lower the high cost of living. Failed on health care. They're ripping health care away from the American people.

By the way, in their one big, ugly bill they enacted the largest cut to Medicaid in American history. And in the same bill gave the Department of Homeland Security $191 billion in taxpayer money, $75 billion of which went to ICE. That taxpayer money is now being used to kill American citizens. It's all unacceptable.

We need Department of Homeland Security agents to behave like every other law enforcement agency in the country, not like a toxic paramilitary organization.

[07:50:00]

BOLDUAN: But do -- you say he has his facts right, but do you commend him for speaking out where a lot of Republicans don't? Even John Thune calling this an inflection point. Do you see allies in them in this effort?

JEFFRIES: Well, were going to work with anyone on the other side of the aisle who actually understands that dramatic changes are needed to the manner in which the Trump administration has been conducting itself with respect to immigration policy. The American people are demanding change and we're going to aggressively support it.

BOLDUAN: Change -- define change. I know -- and don't give me the line of I'm not going to --

JEFFRIES: No.

BOLDUAN: -- negotiate in public. But Thune said --

JEFFRIES: That's not a line that I often use, by the way.

BOLDUAN: You always -- true, true, true.

Thune said what do Democrats want in terms of changes in order to approve the funding that is now before you. Is Noem out enough to support DHS funding?

JEFFRIES: Kristi Noem being fired or removed from office is, of course, not enough. It's a start.

BOLDUAN: What is the change? JEFFRIES: Well, there's a variety of different things that have been put on the table.

First of all, there's the basic value and principle that taxpayer dollars can't be used to kill American citizens, to brutalize American communities, and to target violently law abiding --

BOLDUAN: Apparently, that's not a policy that says you can use taxpayer dollars to kill American citizens.

JEFFRIES: No, that's actually -- no, that --

BOLDUAN: You see what I'm saying?

JEFFRIES: That's clearly what's happening. We have a DHS killing machine. The American people have seen it. That's the reality of what happened to Alex Pretti. It's the reality of what happened to Renee Nicole Good. It's the reality to the fact that dozens of people have actually died in ICE detention over the last year.

This is an administration that promised to deport violent felons. We all support that. But that's not what's happening right now.

We also need ICE to conduct itself like every other law enforcement agency in the country. That means judicial warrants. That means no masks. That means body cameras. That means when officers actually break the law they should be held criminally accountable for their behavior. That's what happens to every other law enforcement agency in the country.

But you have this administration saying ICE is absolutely immune, which is part of the reason why you see these people behaving in this kind of rogue fashion.

BOLDUAN: I three -- I see -- heard three suggestions at least for changes to DHS policy. Let's see what happens.

Thank you very much for coming in on a very critical day.

JEFFRIES: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you -- John.

BERMAN: All right. It is now the largest measles outbreak since measles was declared eliminated in the United States -- almost all the cases among the unvaccinated or under-vaccinated.

And then a rocket attack in broad daylight narrowly misses its target. A mayor in the Philippines -- he survived but some of his security detail was injured. Three suspects were later killed.

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[07:56:53]

BERMAN: This morning public health officials scrambling to contain a measles outbreak in South Carolina that is now officially the largest in the U.S. since the disease was declared eliminated more than two decades ago. Nearly 800 cases, more than 700 of which are in patients who were not fully vaccinated.

With us now is Dr. Anna-Kathryn Burch. She is a pediatric infectious disease physician in South Carolina. Doctor, thanks so much for being with us.

When you see those numbers -- 800 cases, more than 700 of which are among the under or unvaccinated -- what does that tell you?

DR. ANNA-KATHRYN BURCH, PEDIATRIC INFECTIOUS DISEASE PHYSICIAN, PRISMA HEALTH: It tells us that we need to get a message out that vaccination is the most important thing for -- or most important way to protect us from getting the measles.

You know, as a South Carolinian I was born and raised in the state. This is where I live. This is where I die. It breaks my heart to see that my state is the number one outbreak currently in the United States since the 1990s. And we have this amazing vaccine that would help protect us all from getting the measles and we are just seeing that people aren't as excited as about getting that vaccine anymore and this is why we're seeing measles come back into the United States.

BERMAN: How contagious is measles?

BURCH: Measles is probably the most contagious infectious disease pathogen on the planet. So for instance, if someone has measles and they come into a room with 10 individuals who are not immune to the measles, nine of those 10 will get the measles.

But one of the reasons why it's so contagious is that the droplets that carry the measles virus can stay in the air for up to two hours after someone leaves that area that was infected with measles. And so it makes it very hard to determine who the person was who has measles to do case investigations and those type things, so --

BERMAN: And what are the long-term implications if you do get measles?

BURCH: So you can get something called encephalitis, which is inflammation of the brain. Those individuals who get the measles who are two or less years of age have a higher chance of getting encephalitis from the measles when they actually are infected with the measles.

But the measles is a smart virus, and it convinces our immune system to only produce antibodies towards the measles after you get the measles. And so essentially makes individuals immunocompromised for months -- up to a year after getting measles.

So really, the increased rate of hospitalizations, infections -- those kind of things happen after a person gets measles.