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Tom Homan Says ICE & CBP Are Working on Minneapolis Drawdown Plan; Fox News Poll Shows Majority of Voters Say ICE is Too Aggressive; Obamacare Enrollment Drops After Enhanced Premium Subsidies Expire; NYPD Opens Hate Crime Investigation After Car Rams Into Chabad Headquarters Building; Trump's National Guard Deployments Have Cost Nearly $500 Million. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired January 29, 2026 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:33:50]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Speaking for the first time since taking the reins in Minneapolis, Border Czar Tom Homan says ICE and Border Patrol are working on what he calls a drawdown plan for federal immigration agents in Minnesota.

He says increased cooperation between county jails and immigration authorities would be key to an eventual drawdown, and he had this message for federal agents.

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TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: I want to make it clear, ICE and CBP officers are performing their duties in a challenging environment, under tremendous circumstances, but they're trying to do it with professionalism. If they don't, they'll be dealt with. Like any other federal agency, we have standards of conduct.

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KEILAR: We're joined now by Gil Kerlikowske. He served as Commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection under President Obama. Thanks so much, Gil, for joining us. What's your reaction to what we heard from Tom Homan this morning?

GIL KERLIKOWSKE, FORMER COMMISSIONER, U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION: Well, the standards of conduct are important because there was no Internal Affairs in Customs and Border Protection until I got there, until Secretary Jeh Johnson approved it.

[13:35:00]

And we used an Assistant Director from the FBI that was put on loan to us. And so we started the Internal Affairs, and we put out the first public policy on use of force. Before, it had been kept confidential. What is beyond disappointing, of course, is that the 10-year veteran that led Internal Affairs resigned several months ago, and so I think there's a significant question about who's conducting the investigation and how will that information be transmitted to Congress and to the American public.

KEILAR: So he's talking here about making this operation safer and by the book. What changes would that require to make this safer and by the book, in your view?

KERLIKOWSKE: Well, what they're asking for right now as they debate the funding of the Department of Homeland Security are the basics. I mean, the minimum that a police department would operate under, and DHS has not done that.

So, for example, body cameras, which almost every large police department in the country uses. Not doing random roving patrols. Doing investigations that essentially are independent and can be transparent.

Those are the kinds of things, and of course, how they go about using this less lethal technology, pepper spray and soft nose rounds.

KEILAR: And as he's saying that all operations are going to be targeted, the priority is going to be criminal aliens and public safety threats. But he's also saying, you know, it's not off the table if someone is just here undocumented. How do you read the makeup of who they're scooping up in this to be changing? Do you think it is actually going to change?

KERLIKOWSKE: Well, during the campaign, when President Trump was a candidate, Tom Homan talked about we're going after the worst of the worst. And that's people with final orders of deportation that should be removed. People that are involved in gangs and drugs, et cetera. And that is the way they started out. And frankly, I think most people in the United States could accept that.

But if you look at the most recent poll statistics from the Wall Street Journal, that has dropped significantly. It is people that have been here many years, had jobs, have families. They're working, they're providing a service to the communities where they are.

And so, I would be a little skeptical of that. And remember in the past, this is actually what ICE did and people really did not want a drug dealer, a gang member, et cetera, in their community.

KEILAR: Yeah, that worst of the worst is something that a lot of Americans support. It's the folks who aren't the public safety threat and then they're looking at the tactics. We see poll numbers show they're not in favor of that compared to the worst of the worst. I just wonder, overall how, you are looking at this moment we're in and how we got here. Do you see this as a Gregory Bovino driven problem? Do you see this as a White House, Trump administration driven problem from Secretary Noem and Stephen Miller, and yes, President Trump?

KERLIKOWSKE: Yes, I think it is White House driven. It is certainly Stephen Miller driven, Corey Lewandowski driven and Kristi Noem driven. Remember too, that when they used the Border Patrol for this, it is clearly the wrong tool to plop Border Patrol agents who work best on the border, in the middle of these cities. Policing a city, as I know, having been the police chief for almost 10 years in Seattle, policing a city is difficult and it takes a certain skillset, a lot of experience and a lot of training. And quite frankly, it is clear that the Border Patrol does not have any of those things to be plopped down in Chicago or Minneapolis.

KEILAR: Gil Kerlikowske, thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us.

KERLIKOWSKE: Thank you.

KEILAR: Still to come, there's new polling on how Americans view these recent tactics by ICE, especially after the shooting deaths of Renee Good and Alex Pretti. We're going to show you those numbers next on "CNN News Central."

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[13:44:17]

KEILAR: We're getting a clear picture of how Americans feel about some of the tactics that have been used by ICE. A new Fox survey shows 59 percent of registered voters say the agency is being too aggressive in its efforts to deport undocumented immigrants, up from 49 percent last July. Another 24 percent say ICE's actions have been about right. 17 percent saying it has not been aggressive enough.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": And here's the breakdown by party. 88 percent of Democratic voters view ICE tactics as too aggressive and 71 percent of independents agree. Some 27 percent of Republican voters say the same. You can see all of those numbers are up from last July.

[13:45:00]

KEILAR: This is a poll that was conducted last Friday through Monday, which is prior to and immediately after the fatal shooting of Alex Pretti, who was killed Saturday by federal immigration agents in Minneapolis.

And we're joined now by David Axelrod, CNN Chief Political Analyst and former Senior Adviser to President Obama. So David, same poll here finding Trump's approval rating on immigration at 45 percent. That's one point higher that his overall approval rating. How does the Trump administration execute and message the popular parts of his immigration policy while avoiding backlash from the less popular parts, as they are looking at these polls and getting a real reality check of what people think about their policies?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Brianna, it was interesting to me when president was asked about Kristi Noem, he said, "I think she's doing a great job. The border is sealed." And he shifted right to the border, did not speak about what was going on in terms of immigration enforcement because there is a big gap between how people feel about it, how he has handling border security which was the main commitment of his campaign on immigration and the way they've handled this.

And we should point out that as you did, that poll was begun before the tragedy on Saturday. You would assume that these numbers would be a little bit worse had they had another day of polling behind that event.

So, they've got a big political problem. It is the reason why you see something that we haven't seen before. You see the administration negotiating with the Senate right now. The Senate has some leverage there, using it, Republicans and Democrats to reforms. And the administration uncharacteristically is involved in those talks.

So, this is a big political problem for the president. He has obviously sent Tom Homan to try and change the tone. But listen, there is a fundamental question here, which is what is the goal? Is the goal to remove, as we've heard from Tom Homan, as the president said during the campaign, the worst of the worst? Or is it Stephen Miller's vision of ejecting everybody who is here, who crossed the border illegally, no matter how long they've been here, no matter how they've conducted themselves here, no matter how much they're contributing to the community?

I think the thing that the reason people think things are going too far is because they've crossed over from one mission into another. And the question is, will the mission change? And we don't have an answer to that yet.

SANCHEZ: I do want to get your thoughts on this question that was asked in the Fox poll regarding abolishing ICE. The Fox poll has it at doubling from where it was in 2018 to 36 percent -- down party lines, 59 percent of Democrats support it, 16 percent of Republicans. How do you see abolishing ICE as a campaign message? Is it a winning one?

AXELROD: No, not if it implies that there is not going to be any immigration enforcement in the country. I think people believe there should be. I think people believe you should come to the country legally. And if you don't, you know, there should be some -- there should be some penalty for that. They do believe that. But, I don't think they -- so I don't think they want to abolish ICE.

Well, you know, the problem that we've seen before when people said abolish the police or defund police, I don't think people -- most people -- I don't think most people who said it believe that there should be no policing function in cities. But the implication was that there could be. So I don't think Democrats want to get into that again.

I do think they want fundamental root and branch reform. If it means getting rid of the name ICE, which has become a very bad brand, that's one thing. If it means that were just going to abandon immigration enforcement, I don't think Democrats or Republicans would support that in large numbers.

KEILAR: And before we let you go, we do want to get your reaction to this news that more than a million fewer people have signed up for the Affordable Care Act coverage for 2026 after those enhanced premium subsidies expired. How do you see that affecting things?

AXELROD: Well, look, first of all, Donald Trump -- President Trump has tried to destroy this program, the Affordable Care Act, since he's been president. We know he tried 60 times or something to end that program when he was president in his first term. He failed and it has become more and more popular as people have taken advantage of it. 20 million people having used it last year.

But, he is now trying to strangle it. He is trying to quietly strangle the program.

[13:50:00]

And the result of it is millions and millions of Americans can't afford it. They're not going to be able to use it, and they're going to be uninsured. And I think that health care is a huge problem for the country, and therefore it's a problem for this president because he's seen as someone who doesn't have real answers to it. You saw it as press conference trying to suggest he does. He doesn't.

He's had 10 years to come up with him. He hasn't on if there isn't some sort of major change of direction here, I think this is going to be a big burden for Republican candidates going into the fall elections.

SANCHEZ: David Axelrod, always appreciate the perspective.

AXELROD: Great to see you, guys. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course, now to some of the other headlines we are watching this hour. A driver is in custody after a car repeatedly rammed into Chabad World Headquarters in Brooklyn. The NYPD is investigating this as a possible hate crime. CNN affiliate, WABC says that investigators are treating the suspect as an emotionally disturbed person.

Fortunately, no one was injured in the incident. The NYPD says that they now have enhanced security at places of worship across all five boroughs.

Also, we have new data on the cost of President Trump's sweeping deployment of National Guard troops to several major cities across the U. S. The Congressional Budget Office says that it cost taxpayers nearly $500 million from June through December of last year.

The CBO estimates that if last year's deployments were to continue through this year, it could cost taxpayers more than a billion dollars, $1.1 billion. The CBO estimate covers National Guard and active duty Marine Corps deployments to L.A., D.C., Memphis, Portland and Chicago. This does not include the deployment to New Orleans.

And we have some new surveillance video for you, showing the moment that a thief breaks into an Oklahoma store armed with an axe. Watch this. In the video, you see the suspect smashing cabinets in a collectible store. Police say he stole some $30,000 worth of trading cards before he ran out and a chase ensued. Here's the moment police caught up with him.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop. Stop. Get on the ground.

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SANCHEZ: As you can tell by the video, somewhere in the chase, the suspect lost his shirt. Not ideal considering the snowstorm. Police though did recover the stolen Pokemon cards. Brilliant plan there.

Still to come, Democratic tension -- dramatic tension is underway in the trial of a Virginia man accused of conspiring with the family's au pair to murder his wife and a stranger. We have the latest from court as the defendant returns to the witness stand.

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[13:57:08]

SANCHEZ: The Virginia man accused of stabbing his wife to death and gunning down another man in an adulterous love triangle was back on the stand today testifying in his own defense. Brendan Banfield admitted to having an affair with his family au pair, but rejected her testimony that he concocted a scheme to get rid of his wife and then blame the killing on a man that he and the au pair found on a sex fetish website.

CNN's Jean Casarez has more on today's proceedings. Jean, what did Banfield share in his testimony to the jury?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he testified on direct that he was going to work on that day, February 24th, 2023. He was an IRS agent in the criminal division. But then, he was told by Juliana that there was a strange car in the driveway. So he came back home, walked around the perimeter of the house, walked into the basement from the outside which they could do. He secured Juliana and his daughter, Valerie, four years old at the time, in the basement.

And he started walking through the house. He said when he got up to the second floor, actually on the stairs, he heard sounds that he thought were sexual in nature, but then there were sounds that he thought were not. He walked to the door and he saw his wife on the floor and there was a man that was behind her and she had long, dark, curly brown hair.

He couldn't really see what was happening. But as he kept looking, he felt that maybe he was doing harm to her, even stabbing her. And let's go to some of his testimony to tell you exactly where he takes it from there.

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BRENDAN BANFIELD, DEFENDANT: Christine was, I would describe as nude and on all fours, on her hands and knees. And Joe Ryan was behind her, like angled slightly behind her. And from my position at the door, slightly to the left of her, he was clothed and he was looking directly at me as I opened the door.

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CASAREZ: And the testimony was that he was stabbing her with a knife and Brendan Banfield took his gun out and said, drop the knife. He didn't drop the knife and ultimately, Brendan Banfield shot him, one shot to the head. Now he's still on the stand.

The cross-examination tried to bring out points. There are questions, but it may have come from the direct testimony itself. Now, we'll be on redirect in just minutes.

SANCHEZ: Jean Casarez, thank you so much for that. Let's go straight to Minneapolis Mayor, Jacob Frey who's speaking right now at a conference of mayors in Washington, D.C. Let's listen.

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MAYOR JACOB FREY, (D) MINNEAPOLIS: We feel the support from across the entire country and we recognize that one great American city is experiencing an invasion. That is an invasion --