Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Interview with Rep. Mike Lawler (R-NY): Trump's Deal with Senate Leaders to Avert Shutdown Hits Snags; Former CNN Anchor Don Lemon Taken into Custody. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 30, 2026 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Going to be a big story. Rival Studios will certainly have a spin about the numbers. Right now, there's a sense that it'll make $3 to $5 million in the theaters this weekend.

Anything more than $5 million will be considered a happy surprise for Amazon. But it's hard to say how this nets out for Amazon because this film and related episodes will also stream on Amazon Prime Video. So there are multiple benefits for Amazon through this film.

And ultimately, it's probably a red-blue divide. Look, I live in a red area. I looked on my movie -- the local movie theater for tonight. The showing at 7:30 is almost sold out.

But I looked at some theaters on the Upper West Side and in New York City, and there's lots of empty seats, lots of open tickets. It's going to be one of those movies, a red-blue divide in America -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Brian Stelter, thank you very much.

A brand new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

All right, the breaking news. The president seems to contradict his own border czar on a drawdown of federal immigration forces in Minnesota. He says, not at all.

New fears of the Nipah virus. It kills more than half the people who get it. So where is it and how fast can it spread?

More breaking news. Olympic great Lindsey Vonn just fell in her final downhill before the Olympic Games. She was airlifted off the mountain. We've got a new update on what this means for what was one of the great comebacks in Olympic history.

Kate is out. I'm John Berman in New York. Sara Sidner in Minneapolis. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

All right, this morning, mixed messages in Minneapolis. President Trump seeming to contradict his own Border Czar Tom Homan after Homan said he was planning a drawdown of federal agents in Minneapolis following two fatal shootings.

This is what Homan said after speaking to state and local officials and then the president's comments just hours later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: This is common sense cooperation that allows to draw down on the number of people we have here. Yes, I said it, draw down. My main focus now is draw down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you be pulling back immigration enforcement agents out of Minnesota?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We want to keep our country safe. We'll do whatever we can to keep our country safe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So not pulling back?

TRUMP: No, no, not at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: President Trump also commenting on the video that emerged of Alex Pretti in a confrontation with federal agents more than a week before he was shot and killed. Pretti appears to kick out the taillight of an agent's SUV. They tackled him to the ground, but soon after let him go.

The president called Pretti a, quote, agitator and perhaps insurrectionists on social media and said he quote, "His stock has gone way down." An attorney for Pretti's family and officials including the Minneapolis mayor say nothing in that video justifies Pretti's killing 11 days later.

And we've got a live look at Capitol Hill where the battle over ICE is bringing the government to the brink of a shutdown, a partial shutdown with just hours until a midnight deadline.

A deal the president struck with Senate leaders has hit some snags. The agreement would fund the Homeland Security Department for two weeks while lawmakers negotiate over demands by Democrats to rein in ICE. With us now is Congressman Mike Lawler, a Republican from New York.

Congressman, let me ask you about some of those Democratic demands. They say they want to pass a law which says that ICE agents on the streets can't wear masks. They have to wear body cameras and Democrats want judicial criminal warrants, want to require judicial criminal warrants for searches and raids for ICE on the ground there.

Which of those measures that Democrats are pressing could you support?

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY), FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, look, I've said going back a year ago that I did not believe ICE agents should wear masks. I understand the concerns about doxing that have gone on over the last year, but the fact is I've always believed law enforcement should be identifiable, and people should be able to see them without question. Body cameras are something that, you know, I think most people recognize actually protects law enforcement.

I think as these investigations become clearer, you know, body camera footage, generally speaking, actually benefits law enforcement officers in the long run. We are going to work through all of these issues. I think you will see negotiations underway between the House, the Senate and the White House.

I will tell you one of the things that I know Republicans will want in these negotiations is an end to sanctuary cities. The fact is if you look at what happened in Minneapolis, the reason there was a surge is because the mayor and the governor were preventing state and local law enforcement from cooperating with ICE.

[08:05:00]

And so when you look at things like crowd control measures, local police were not there to provide that support. In my opinion, a lot of this could have been prevented. And in fact, the PBA president of the Minneapolis Police Force said the same thing, that had they been allowed to cooperate, they could have handled crowd control.

You see that in New York City. The NYPD always handles that. One of my Democratic opponents is talking about making my home county a sanctuary county.

I'm absolutely opposed to that. That does not make us safer. In fact, it creates unnecessary conflict between federal, state and local law enforcement to do their jobs.

So there's going to be a lot of negotiation between, you know, the House, the Senate and the White House in the coming weeks as we work to resolve this issue. But from my vantage point, I said this in the New York Times earlier this week in an op-ed, we have to tackle the issue of the border, enforcement, deporting criminal aliens, but we actually have to have a real and honest conversation about immigration reform in this country if we're going to fix this system once and for all.

BERMAN: The president just a short time ago commented on the video of Alex Pretti taken more than a week before he was shot and killed. He said, agitator and perhaps insurrectionist, Alex Pretti's stock has gone way down. Alex Pretti is dead.

How does a comment like that from the president help this dialogue that you were calling for?

LAWLER: I think the rhetoric all around this needs to stop. I really do. I think calling American citizens domestic terrorists is wrong.

I think calling ICE the Gestapo is wrong. I think all of us have a responsibility to allow the investigations to take place. This is why, whether it's in the media or elected officials immediately jumping to conclusions about what happened based on one piece of video or image or evidence, instead of allowing the full investigation to take place. The fact is that video of Alex Pretti kicking the car and spitting at ICE agents that came out and was, you know, taken 11 days prior to his tragic death. The fact is, you know, that wasn't available on the first day of these reports. And so you have to have a full picture of everything that has occurred.

In my opinion, obviously it does not justify his death. These two deaths of Renee Good and Alex Pretti are tragic. They were preventable.

They were preventable. That's my fundamental point. If you had cooperation between federal, state, and local officials, but you have to allow the investigation to take place, and everybody would be well- advised to stop.

BERMAN: I want to ask you a question about a different subject now. I asked you with housing prices, which I know you care about deeply since you fought so hard to have basically an increase on the SALT cap. And I also hear from sources familiar with your district that housing prices are quite high there.

The president was asked about housing. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: People that own their homes, we're going to keep them wealthy. We're going to keep those prices up. We're not going to destroy the value of their homes so that somebody that didn't work very hard can buy a home.

I don't want to drive housing prices down. I want to drive housing prices up for people that own their homes and they can be assured that's what's going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Right, I don't think anybody was suggesting they want to see people lose value in the homes that they have. But how do you think that sounds? How do you think that sounds to people coming out of college or young people trying to buy a house when the president says, I want to drive housing prices up?

LAWLER: I know what he's talking about with respect to, obviously, the wealth maintained in a home. Most people's retirement is vested in the value of their home. And so when people go to sell their home, obviously, you know, you have to tackle the issue of capital gains, especially for our seniors.

We don't want our seniors getting whacked with capital gains. Somebody bought a house 30, 40 years ago, they go to sell and they're getting hammered because prices have risen dramatically over 40 years. But, you know, you look at a district like mine and it's a prime example of the problem.

We have a supply and demand problem where 8 million units under built nationwide, which is part of the reason prices go up. You look at Westchester County, New York, the average home value went from 700,000 to 1.1 million in four years. Mortgage costs under Joe Biden drove up over $10,000 a year because of interest rates.

We got to bring the interest rates down.

[08:10:00]

We need to increase supply so that there is more housing stock available so that younger people can be able to afford to purchase a home or rent. The rental market is out of control.

So I'm on the Housing and Insurance Subcommittee. This is a primary focus for me. We have passed the revitalizing America's -- or I've introduced the revitalizing America's Housing Act.

We've passed the 21st Century Housing Act through the committee. The Senate has the Road to Housing Bill. So there's a lot of discussion right now about how we actually tackle the cost of housing.

President is right. We don't want people to lose value, but at the same token, we need to address affordability, which means we need to build supply.

BERMAN: Yes, not a lot of people saying houses in Westchester are too cheap. Congressman Mike Lawler, great to see you this morning. Thank you very much for your time.

LAWLER: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right, we are getting some breaking news. This just in, I am just hearing and I don't have any details yet, that former CNN anchor Don Lemon was arrested just -- now this comes just days after he was covering a protest in a Minneapolis church. We'll get you new information on that as soon as it comes in.

And then the foil plot to break Luigi Mangione out of jail using a pizza cutter and a barbecue fork, the new details we just learned.

And how much snow do you have on your roof? I've got a lot. It can be super dangerous. We've got this new video just in this morning.

[08:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news now, just into our CNN newsroom, we are learning journalist, a former colleague of ours, former CNN anchor, Don Lemon, has been taken into custody, arrested just days after a protest inside a Minneapolis church. Now, he has maintained that he was going in as a journalist to cover the protest.

Let's get right to CNN's Kara Scannell and CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter is also here with us. Kara, what are you learning first about this arrest that we should note, a judge, a magistrate judge, had rejected the federal government's attempt to put him under arrest just one week or so ago. KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sara, that's right. We had reported that earlier this week that the magistrate judge had rejected an attempt by DOJ to bring criminal charges against Don Lemon. What we have learned is that last night in Los Angeles, in the 11 o'clock hour, Don Lemon was arrested in the hotel lobby in Beverly Hills and taken into custody.

Now, it is not clear at this time what he is charged with or if he is charged in a criminal complaint or if he is charged in an indictment which would have been returned by a grand jury. But it does appear to be connected to that because, as we reported earlier this week, the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, was livid that Lemon was not charged at the time. It appeared that they were going to continue to try to bring charges against him.

And now we know that Lemon was arrested last night in Los Angeles where he was in town to cover the Grammys. I do have a statement from his attorney, Abby Lowell, and it says in part, "Don has been a journalist for 30 years and his constitutionally protected work in Minneapolis was no different than what he has always done. The First Amendment exists to protect journalists whose role it is to shine light on the truth and hold those in power accountable. There is no more important time for people like Don to be doing this work. Instead of investigating the federal agents who killed two peaceful Minnesota protesters, the Trump Justice Department is devoting its time, attention and resources to this arrest. And that is the real indictment of wrongdoing in this case."

Now, we do expect Lemon to make an appearance in court today. That is usually the process that follows when someone is arrested. And then it will be up to the judge whether he gives him bail, which would be expected in this case.

So we're likely to learn more details about exactly what he is charged with, what form he is charged in, and if this was returned by a grand jury. And then we'll see potentially Lemon later today. But he's being held and has been held overnight in Los Angeles on arrested on some charges that appear to be related to Minneapolis -- Sara.

SIDNER: Kara, thank you for your reporting, giving us what we know at this hour. Brian, it cannot be overstated. This is a stunning move by the Department of Justice.

Going after a journalist, arresting Don Lemon. What do you see has happened here? Because a magistrate judge just last week told them, no, you are not going to lump him in with those who were protesting.

He was there as a journalist. What could have changed, A, and B, how do you see this by the administration, what they have just done?

STELTER: Right. This is a First Amendment test with multiple dimensions. The First Amendment protects the work of journalists.

It also protects the right of worshippers to go to church and be able to peacefully assemble and worship and practice their faith. And the argument that we have heard from Trump officials is that that right to worship was infringed not just by the protesters who walked into that church and started chanting, but also by Don Lemon, because he and his crew members were there. Lemon has said all along that he was there not as an activist, but as a journalist.

In fact, he was saying those words and repeating that out loud when he was inside the church. But he clearly knew something was taking place that day with the protesters.

[08:20:00]

He told his viewers on YouTube to stay tuned because there was something about to happen. He was careful not to have his camera crew walk into the church until there was a disruption.

And I would urge people to go online, actually watch the YouTube videos, see how it all went down. I think Lemon's reporting from inside the church was very valuable. As a viewer, I learned a lot about how it happened, how it all went down.

He interviewed some of the protesters in real time, yes. He also interviewed some of the worshippers, and I thought their comments were really insightful about what they went through, about how troubled, how scared they were by the disruption. At the same time, like I said, you learned a lot from the protesters about why they decided to show up there, believing that one of the pastors at the church also worked for ICE.

So this video on YouTube, this is the real focal point. This video, of course, happened on a Sunday morning. This video was then streaming for everyone to see.

And by Monday, the day after that incident, there was a lot of online outrage on the right. Many calls from MAGA loyalists to have Lemon arrested. I think an important part of the story here is the amount of pressure the Justice Department, Pam Bondi and others have been under from the right to arrest Lemon, to take action like this.

And as you said, an initial attempt to do so failed in Minnesota. Now we're seeing another attempt to do so. And Lemon did say on his livestream last week he expected the government would keep coming for him.

I think I view this in context with Trump administration attempts to target other perceived critics. Think about Letitia James. Think about James Comey.

Think about the many cases we've covered in the past year of Trump retribution. Don Lemon is another figure on that list. President Trump has repeatedly attacked Lemon, both when Lemon was an anchor here at CNN, but again, more recently.

Trump has made no secret of his disdain for Lemon. And Lemon, of course, has been harshly critical of President Trump for many years as well. So he is a Trump foe.

And this is another example of the administration targeting a Trump foe. A friend of Lemon's tells me, as Kara just said, he did spend the night in jail. He's still in custody.

His friends don't seem to know what the charges are yet. But the pressure from the right to take this action was really, really severe. And you're going to see some people, you know, on the MAGA right who are going to cheer this.

At the same time, many First Amendment groups, many press freedom advocates are going to say this has a real chill. Because Lemon walked in, yes, with a microphone and a camera to document what happened at the church. And frankly, I think viewers are better off for him having told us what happened in the church that day.

SIDNER: He also spoke to the pastor that day. And we should be clear, committing journalism is not a crime.

STELTER: Yes.

SIDNER: It is not a crime in this country. It is a crime in other countries, but not here. So if all they have is that he went into the church and started interviewing people after the protest entered the church, it will be very interesting to see how they explain that when it comes to the First Amendment, which the president has consistently complained that other peoples and the right has consistently complained that their First Amendment is being crushed, whether it be online or otherwise, by past administrations. It is very, very fascinating to see this happen, but also terrifying to a lot of journalists who are watching this and seeing what happens, especially after this administration also went into a Washington Post reporter's home to take out all of her evidence.

She was not the focus of the investigation, but she was someone who was contacting someone who had been giving out information, leaking information. And it's just stunning to see what is happening here with this administration. Now, we do not know at this point in time what the charges are, Brian, but you mentioned the word chilling.

And I want to get back to that. Do you see this as another step by the administration to scare reporters like yourself, like myself, like others, into being super careful or maybe not even being as critical of the administration?

STELTER: Number one, journalists will not be deterred. We have seen that time and time again in this country, more than a year now since President Trump returned to office, and the reporting continues no matter what. At the Washington Post, that example recently, that FBI raid has been met by legal action by the Post, fighting in court to get that reporter's phone -- her phone and her computers back.

With Don Lemon, what did he do as soon as there were threats about him? He hired one of the best attorneys in the country when it comes to these kinds of cases. Abe Lowell, who put out the statement this morning, he has been a go-to lawyer.

He's a D.C. mega-lawyer. He has been for decades. But he's been a go- to lawyer for people who are perceived to be targets of President Trump. So Lemon has called in reinforcements, so to speak, believing this could and would happen. It is notable that Lemon is an independent journalist, meaning he no longer works for a big media outlet.

[08:25:00]

When he left CNN, he launched a YouTube channel, a Substack, a variety of different platforms on social media to produce videos, some of which are very entertaining, some of which are opinionated, and some are straightforward journalism. And he now has a very big footprint across Instagram, YouTube, and other platforms. So he's an independent journalist, which means he doesn't necessarily have a team of lawyers and others with him at a newsroom to support him in a moment like this.

But as I said, he did hire one of the best attorneys on this topic to defend him, expecting that this could happen. You know, this idea of a chilling effect, yes, it is real. There's been a chill in the air for the past 12 months or so when it comes to reporting in the U.S. And yet the work is still being done.

And by the way, Lemon was not the only person with a camera inside that church. I'm waiting to see if anybody else who was trying to film inside that church that day may also be targeted. We now wait to see what exactly the charges are -- Sara.

SIDNER: Yes, that will tell us a lot about whether this is a retribution issue or there is something else. We will have to see the charges. I want to go back to Kara Scannell.

Are you hearing anything about what these charges might be at this hour? And I know this just came down, so hard to know. But we will soon see, I suppose, what exactly the DOJ is trying to charge Don Lemon with, because has to -- he has an immediate arraignment, if you will, in court shortly, I would imagine, yes?

SCANNELL: Sara, yes, at some point this morning, these charges will become unsealed. And then we will be able to see exactly what he is charged with. And Lemon will make his first court appearance in Los Angeles, where his lawyers are expected to ask for him to be released on bail.

You know, we did see as part of this whole investigation, when they initially went to the magistrate judge to seek an indictment or to bring this, I should say, criminal complaint against Don Lemon, it was in connection with other people who were also at the church. So if those charges are parallel to the ones that at least three people were previously charged with, it has to do with their, you know, alleged attempt to interfere with someone's ability to practice their freedom of religion. And that's why, you know, it was in a church.

They're saying that was an obstacle and a disruption. And that was the basis for those charges against the other people who were present, some of the protesters, non-journalists who were in the church that day that Lemon was there filming and capturing. And so it would stand to reason that those charges would likely be similar, especially if they were going to charge it as a conspiracy.

If they're not charging it as a conspiracy, it could just be a standalone charge that Lemon might be facing for having been in the same place. But if we look at what those other people were charged with, that gives us a sense of what Lemon could potentially be facing here, because that is what this investigation appeared to have been about. Although, as Brian had said, you know, this is highly unusual for a journalist to be charged when they are there covering an event in the role of a journalist.

And so that is something that you usually do not see, although we have seen the Trump Justice Department peel back some of the protections that have been in place or procedures that have been in place at the Justice Department before they would take any steps towards journalists. So that is also a change that is under the Trump administration. And another point that Brian had made, this is a pattern where Trump has targeted who he has perceived as his enemies.

We saw it with the attempted -- multiple attempts to bring criminal charges against Letitia James, the New York Attorney General. Those had fallen apart initially by a judge saying that the U.S. attorney overseeing them was serving improperly, but then also having other grand juries not agreeing to return the charges. So we will see how this plays out.

But the next steps in this case will be the unsealing of the indictment, we will learn the charges, and Lemon will make his first court appearance.

SIDNER: Yes, we have seen his retribution cases against Comey and Letitia James fall apart once they get into court. But it is still very terrifying to be arrested and have to go through that process. We will see what the charges are, as you said very shortly here.

Kara Scannell, thank you for your reporting, as well as Brian Stelter. Stick with us, there will be more to come on this, I'm sure, in the coming moments. We'll be going to break right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)