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Don Lemon and Georgia Fort Arrested; Potential Death Penalty for Mangione. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 30, 2026 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:24]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: The breaking news -- the breaking news this morning, former CNN anchor, and a former colleague of mine and friend, Don Lemon, has been taken into custody by federal agents, according to his attorney. It comes after Lemon covered the protests earlier this month. Dozens of anti-ICE protesters rushing inside of a church in Saint Paul, Minnesota.

Now, Don has said that he was just there as a journalist, photographing the incident as a journalist, asking questions as a journalist after the protesters went in and has been very clear he was not part of the protest group.

In a statement, Don Lemon's attorney says, quote, "this unprecedented attack on the First Amendment and transparent attempt to distract attention from the many crises facing this administration will not stand. Don will fight these charges vigorously and thoroughly in court."

Now, I just want to quickly let you know, Don Lemon spoke with Alisyn Camerota, another former colleague and friend from CNN, who now works for Scripps News, about the church incident. Let's go to what she told us just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, FORMER CNN ANCHOR: So, he said that he was covering a protest. This is at the Saint Paul church. The protesters had reason to believe that the pastor there was an ICE agent. And so Don -- the way Don described it to me is that he was doing what we do. He was covering a protest. He wasn't conspiring with them. He didn't -- he knew that they were going to be protesting something. He wasn't in on their plans, he says, beforehand, which is one of the things that the DOJ has suggested. And then he stayed outside, he says. The protesters went inside the church. And when he realized that the protest was unfolding inside the church, he then went inside.

And so, you know, obviously, our legal experts can describe whether that's trespassing on private property. But either way, that's a misdemeanor. And, you know, the idea that Don Lemon, as a journalist, has now been arrested is just in an entirely different category.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Now, I have some more breaking news. We have just learned that another independent journalist who is very popular here and very well known here in Minneapolis and in Minnesota, Georgia Fort, has also been arrested. We have now seen video of her inside of her home telling us that there are FBI agents outside of her door demanding that she come out. She said that they said they had a warrant, that they had gone to a grand jury. So, this is brand new, breaking news.

She is describing what is happening, saying that the federal agents say that they had a warrant, that there was a grand jury involved, and that she must come out to be arrested. She said that she spoke to her attorney. Her attorney advised her to go with them. And that is exactly what she did and that she was taken to the Whipple Building.

So now there are two journalists who have been arrested by the FBI, by federal agents, after the incident that happened at a church where they were reporting on what was going on, taking video of what was going on when protesters made a move inside of a church where the pastor is a member of ICE and confronted him, disrupting the church service. You saw her there asking people questions. You also saw, of course, our colleague, Don Lemon, there as well.

Joining me now are CNN's Kara Scannell and our chief media analyst Brian Stelter.

So, Kara, we are now learning from the words of Georgia Fort, who went online to tell people what was happening just before she was taken in by federal agents that there was a, she says, they told her that there was a grand jury involved and that they had a warrant.

What are we learning about the situation with Don Lemon?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, we do know that Don Lemon was arrested last night in Los Angeles in the 11:00 hour local time. I'm told that -- by a source that he was in a hotel lobby on his way to an event related to covering the Grammy Awards, and that is when he was arrested by the agents and taken into custody. It is expected he will appear in court in Los Angeles this morning, and that the charges against him will be unsealed.

Now, as we've been discussing, Lemon was part of a larger attempt by the Justice Department to bring charges against a number of people, some from the protester -- protesting group last week, and that the judge had rejected that complaint against some of the individuals, including Don Lemon.

[09:05:11]

He had suggested if DOJ wanted to go forward, they might want to look toward going before a grand jury. So, that would follow the process that played out where the judge did not believe that there was sufficient evidence. But if a grand jury did, then that would be the route that the Justice Department could take. So, with the knowledge from this reporter, she is probably likely

charged in a very similar way that Lemon is, since it surrounds and involves the same event. It's possible that they have returned an indictment, though we have not yet seen the document. We have not seen any updates from the court about what this instrument is that Lemon was charged in, and specifically what he was charged with.

We do know, though, that some of the protesters who were there, who were not journalists, but the protesters were charged with going into the church and disrupting this religious service, violating laws related to that. So, it's possible that that will be the similar charge that Lemon will face.

All this will become much more clear, though once these documents are unsealed and we do that, expect that to happen this morning to then as this will then continue to play out.

I mean as this new arrest tells us, Lemon was arrested last night in Los Angeles. This other journalist was arrested this morning. If there are other arrests related to this, because not everyone was charged in that initial complaint that the Justice Department was trying to charge, they could be playing out this morning. So, it may be an instance where we do see additional arrests, and then we do eventually see this charging document and understand what charges they are specifically facing.

As you said, Lemon's lawyer, Abbe Lowell, says that he will fight this vigorously and that, you know, it is not unprecedented for journalists to be charged, but it is also very unusual for journalists to be charged because of their First Amendment right to cover events and certain protections that journalists have to participate in, in capturing news. So, there is definitely going to be a big fight here to come on behalf of Don Lemon and most likely this other journalist, as they fight back on these charges, which, you know, his lawyer is saying is an unprecedented attack on the First Amendment. And as we have seen, the president and his attorney general have gone after people that Trump does see as his perceived enemies. Don Lemon is particularly one of those.

Sara.

SIDNER: Yes. Kara Scannell, thank you for your reporting and getting us caught up to speed. We are expecting to see at any time now this morning or perhaps into the afternoon the charges, because this has to go through court and it has to be made public.

Brian Stelter, now that you are learning that there are two journalists who have been taken into custody, one of whom we know well, our colleague and friend, Don Lemon, the other who is very well known here as an independent journalist. She also saying that she was taken into custody, Georgia Fort. I saw her just the other day. She was covering the Ilhan Omar incident. What does that tell you about what the Trump administration is doing here? I mean the First Amendment is the First Amendment for a reason. BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: A disturbing escalation

against reporting in America. And I would also put it in the framework of protests. You know, this is part of an ongoing pressure campaign against protests, especially the kind of provocative anti-Trump protest action that we have seen makes the administration so uncomfortable and, frankly, make some voters very uncomfortable. This is an action, this arrest of Don Lemon, this arrest of this independent journalist who was live streaming and reporting in Minnesota. This is something that some MAGA loyalists have been demanding. They've been wanting to see it happen. When Trump promised retribution, this is the kind of retribution that some of his voters, not all, but some of his voters wanted to see. And I think that is, for better or for worse, some of the context for what we're seeing this morning.

It is -- you know, the First Amendment is meant to protect both a reporter's right to report, but also a congregation's right to worship. So, legal experts might say this is somewhat complicated, although Lemon said all along he was there as a reporter, not as an activist. And he did a really important job showing people, all of us now who can watch the video, what happened inside that church.

I want to back up to that Sunday morning. That intrusion into city's church was sincerely shocking to many, many millions of Americans. Myself included. You know, people, you know, saw that video, they saw Lemon's video, and they were uncomfortable by what happened inside that church. The idea that worship service was disrupted by protesters.

And now there's a very interesting debate about whether the protesters were right or whether they were wrong to go into the church. But that is a political debate. And that's a debate about what forms of protest are effective. The Trump administration is moving that political debate into the legal arena and wanting to take it into court and have a court fight.

[09:10:02]

And we know there have been these attempts to arrest some of the protesters last week who were there. And now we have these arrests of these reporters who documented the scene.

SIDNER: We have.

STELTER: I'm reminded of what one of Lemon's friends, Jennifer Welch, said to her on a podcast. Lemon -- Lemon was talking to Welch. And Welch said to Lemon, quote, "you are a prize for them. An independent, gay, black, happy, successful man. And this is an attempt to intimidate and beat you down."

So, that's how Lemon's friends see this situation, this attempt to charge him and now this actual arrest of Lemon. He's in jail in L.A. now. As an attempt to target another Trump foe.

And let me also quote, Sara, our colleague Larry Madowo, who's based in Nairobi, who covers Africa for CNN. He wrote on X a few minutes ago, "this arrest is a gift to authoritarian governments worldwide who can now justify arresting journalists they don't like because even America does it."

SIDNER: That is stark. It is reality. There is, as we have spoken about, the potential of a major chilling effect, although I certainly am not going to shut my mouth. I know that you won't either. There are many journalists that will continue to call a spade a spade.

But there is a definite fear here, especially for those who are independent journalists, who are smaller, who don't have an apparatus around them as they are out in the streets or if they go into buildings, whether or not they are protected and whether they have the means.

STELTER: By the way, Sara, if you don't mind me interrupting.

SIDNER: Sure

STELTER: We have heard, by the way, from Pam Bondi moments ago. She says, Lemon's arrested. She mentions Georgia Fort. She mentions two other individuals, she says, all arrested in connection with what happened at the church. So, the attorney general now confirming these arrests. She says four people were taken into custody total.

SIDNER: And we know that one person who was arrested, a protester, who was a former NAACP president locally here, Nekima Levy-Pounds, she was let out. And she is disputing that they went into church without permission. She said they had permission. We will see how this goes forward. But it is a stunning development that now we know at least two journalists have been arrested by the DOJ because of their coverage of a protest. We'll see what happens next.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Sara, Brian, thank you both so much.

With us now, CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson.

And, Counselor, it's hard to have a dispassionate discussion about this because, A, I'm a journalist, B, we both know Don. But let's just try to focus on the law here.

What protections does a journalist have when covering a protest like this?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think you have the free protections, John, of the First Amendment. And those -- that protection means holding power accountable, asking questions, being present, doing your due diligence and doing your job. I think that's what journalists do. That's what journalists have historically done. And I think it's shifting into a very dangerous place.

Look, there's a distinction between a protester and a journalist. And let's be clear, both have protections. Protesters have protections. I'll say it again, they have protections. Now, yes, you have the FACE Act. We were talking about that, freedom of access to clinics, used in reproductive issues, but also used in churches. And what does it say? It says that you're not going to threaten anyone, you're not going to use physical violence against anyone, you're not going to intimidate anyone for exercising their religious freedoms, you're not going to obstruct them from doing that. And to the extent that you do, there are penalties. And those penalties could range from non-violent, right, not that anyone wants to spend a day in jail, all right, six months in jail to ten years, depending upon what happens.

But I think we get into a very dangerous place, right? And again, OK, I'll be dispassionate even though I think this is ridiculous. You have a situation where you have a journalist covering an event. There's a process. That process requires probable cause for an arrest. You go to a magistrate. You ask the magistrate, based upon the evidence you have, hey, we have Don Lemon here. He's covering this event. The magistrate says no.

You then push back. His Department of Justice. You go to the appellate court. The appellate court, Eighth Circuit, says no, it's not enough here, right? Three judges, two to one, they said there's nothing here. But yet you detain him anyway. And so, it's unclear as to the legality of the detention.

BERMAN: If they went to a grand jury. That would be another way, right?

JACKSON: It would. And just to be clear, grand jurors don't decide guilt or innocence, right? And we were joking about it. Listen, grand jurors, ham sandwich, right? We've heard that. But a grand jury has 23 members, 12 of which can vote, a majority, that there's reason to believe that a crime was committed and that a person committed it. That's it.

But remember also, John, that a grand jury is a function of prosecution. What information do you give the grand jury? What law do you instruct to the grand jury? What specifically do you tell them? There's no pushback, there's no defense attorney, and there's no defendant in there --

BERMAN: Yes.

JACKSON: Right, generally speaking, giving their side of the story.

BERMAN: All right, this tweet from Pam Bondi announcing the arrest. All she said was, "in connection with the coordinated attack on Cities Church in Saint Paul, Minnesota." "In connection with the coordinated attack."

We are talking about the FACE Act, which does prohibit getting in the way of freedom of worship, right?

[09:15:02]

JACKSON: It does.

BERMAN: OK. This also was private property. A church is private property. So, there are different laws that apply to the protesters, in theory. It may be that what protesters did, I don't know, but it may be that what protesters did was not legal inside that church, but do the same laws apply to someone covering it?

JACKSON: So, understand this, the laws apply to us all. And I think the problem we're having is the selective enforcement of laws, right, and not to get into this, but you don't want to protest the actions as to Renee Good and was there any illegality? Now we're getting into the, you know, other issues. But you want to deal with this. Wow.

But the bottom line is, the laws are evenly applied, or should be, to everyone. But the application, depending upon the nature of what you're doing, can differ. A protester is there for a specific intent. You're voicing whatever objections or opinions you have as to whatever issues. In this case, right, ICE and the pastor being ICE. And whether or not you like their tactics, many Americans are disgusted with the tactics, me included.

However, saying that is different, a protester, from you going, John Berman, Don Lemon or anyone else and simply covering the event.

BERMAN: So, covering that, the protest.

JACKSON: When you're covering the event, you're not engaging or involved in protested activities, you're simply broadcasting those activities so that the rest of the country and community could know what's happening. And to that extent, to me, we're in a different world when you're applying the FACE Act, Freedom of Access to Clinics, to a journalist who's covering the events of protesters. So, that's the troubling thing.

And then, John, it gets further troubling when a judge says, no, an appellate court says no, but you detain someone anyway, and then you allegedly, we don't know, go to a grand jury, which, again, can indict a ham sandwich.

BERMAN: We are going to learn a lot more about all of this in the next few hours, as there will no doubt be a court appearance. We will see the indictment apparently at some point as well.

Counselor Joey Jackson, thank you --

JACKSON: Thank you.

BERMAN: For explaining all the legal details here.

JACKSON: You're welcome.

BERMAN: Obviously, this is something that is deeply important, not just to us, but to the country.

Other news this morning, police foil a bizarre plot to free accused CEO killer Luigi Mangione out of jail using a pizza cutter and a barbecue fork.

And then Lindsay Vaughn, this happened just earlier this morning, crashes in her final downhill race before the Olympics. She was in the middle of what really was one of the most amazing comebacks in Olympic history. What does that mean for her pursuit to ski in the Olympic games in just a couple weeks?

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[09:21:41]

BERMAN: This morning, accused CEO killer Luigi Mangione is back in court for an important hearing. You're looking at live pictures of the courthouse right now. A judge is weighing whether the death penalty is on the table for his federal trial.

Also this morning, a Minnesota man is in custody, charged with impersonating an FBI agent who allegedly tried to break Mangione out of jail in New York.

With us now, CNN's Kara Scannell.

Kara, let's actually focus on the hearing today and the issue of the death penalty, because this is major implications for the next several months of all these trials and whatnot. What's at stake here and what's being argued?

SCANNELL: I mean this is a huge decision that we're expecting this morning before Mangione is in court around 11:00 a.m. And the issue here, his lawyers are trying to get the death penalty thrown out and off the table in this case. They made a number of legal arguments, some saying it's not even constitutional. But ones that relate to the counts that are related to the death penalty, counts three and four, they are saying that they should -- those counts should be thrown out, and that one of them is murder through the use of a firearm. And it involves, as an element of it, to be eligible for the death penalty, it has to involve another violent act. And so, what that is tied to are counts one and two, stalking interstate, traveling to New York to allegedly murder him, and also cyberstalking, doing some of that research.

And so, what Mangione's lawyers are saying is that those stalking charges are not crimes of violence, because people can be stalked and it doesn't mean that you're physically harmed. You could be emotionally upset.

Now, the prosecution says they're reading the statute wrong and that they've charged this as saying that this was murder. The crime of violence is stalking that resulted in death. So, it's really going to come down to, how does the judge decipher the statutory language on that charge, and whether stalking fits into it? So, that is huge.

You know, another issue here that the judge may rule on is the admissibility of some of this evidence. The evidence that was recovered in the backpack that includes the diary that Mangione is saying that he was targeting the health care industry, that he wanted to go after the, quote, "bean counters" in that investor conference and also the firearm, the magazine, some other items that were recovered. And that also can fit right to the stalking charge, too, because that diary would go to support that charge. BERMAN: Right. You need, in a way, the diary and the weapon to have

the stalking be violent. And we should point out, this is the federal case, but this is -- the federal case is where the death penalty is the only place where the death penalty could come into play, correct, because it wouldn't happen with the state murder charges.

SCANNELL: That's right. This death penalty is only eligible in the federal case. And so that's why this ruling is so important. I mean if the death penalty eligible charge was thrown out and stalking remained, I mean that is still a weighty charge that has a maximum of life in prison if he was convicted. But certainly, this is why this is the money case, and the big one, because his life is literally on the line, potentially.

BERMAN: We could hear soon whether or not this is the case. Mangione himself, I guess, appears in court at 11:00, and they presumably will have that decided before he shows up today?

SCANNELL: That's how it usually works. So, that's what we're kind of expecting.

BERMAN: OK.

SCANNELL: And then we'll see, you know, what falls out from that. They'll schedule things and then we'll move ahead with the trial, now set for September.

BERMAN: All right, don't go far because we could have news on this front soon.

Now, the breaking news this morning, two journalists, including former CNN anchor Don Lemon, taken into federal custody by agents. It comes after Lemon covered protests inside a church in Saint Paul, Minnesota.

[09:25:06]

He says he was not part of the protest. He was there covering it as a journalist.

With us now, Jackie Kucinich, the Washington bureau chief for "The Boston Globe," and Margaret Talev, senior contributor for "Axios."

Let me just ask you both, you're both terrific journalists. When you see something like this happen, Jackie, first to you, what's your reaction when you learn that Don and another journalist have been taken into custody?

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "THE BOSTON GLOBE": Well, it's certainly disturbing and part of a pattern that we've seen with this administration and how aggressive they've been with journalists. Certainly we've seen the seizure of "The Washington Post" reporters' materials and also now this. So, you would imagine there's going to be a vigorous legal battle over this. And then the added layer here of the fact that the president has had words about Don Lemon over, you know, the past few years. And this is another chapter in the retribution campaign. So, really a lot of norms and a lot of things to be examined here.

BERMAN: Journalist Margaret Talev, your thoughts?

MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, "AXIOS": Well, John, obviously we're all waiting to learn more details of this case, which is breaking right now. But as Jackie said, this administration has taken a number of steps since the beginning that are either meant to curb access to mainstream news gathering outlets or punish or intimidate them for coverage they haven't liked. And I think the Jimmy Kimmel story is also instructive because although there is a difference between mainstream news gathering and like late night shows that talk about the news and the satirical setting, there is a through line and it involves freedom of speech.

And what voters told us pretty consistently in a lot of polling and focus groups that were done at that time, and this isn't just Democratic voters or independent voters, this is many Republican voters as well, is that they do not want any president to significantly curb free speech or the rights of the press, and they don't want to see intimidation against the press. But I -- I'm not sure that this is a public relations play on the part of the administration. I think there are other forces at work here. And the question is, what will the courts say?

BERMAN: Obviously it will come down to what the courts say and how they see the freedom of speech and the freedom of journalists to cover events as they happen.

You take a step back here, just one perspective that just occurred to me, and this is happening as obviously the president's numbers on immigration and the border have gone down, down and down. This as the president's focus on the economy is not what voters say they want to see. They say he's not focused on it enough.

So, just in the last 12 hours, after Tom Homan says they're drawing down in Minneapolis, President Trump says, no, not at all. And then a few hours after that, the Justice Department basically, you know, taking Don Lemon into custody. Voters in the polls have been saying the president's not focused on the things they want him to be focused on.

So, Jackie, you know, it's hard to imagine how arresting Don Lemon fits in to what voters want to see on the economy.

KUCINICH: Certainly. I mean he was supposed to give this big speech on the economy, and obviously he kind of veered into other areas this week. So, he hasn't been able to focus on that because, frankly, it's not getting better. And the -- I mean we -- and we haven't even seen what's going to happen with the Supreme Court and the tariff issue. There isn't a lot of good news on that front. So, he is reaching out to other areas.

Now, to your point, immigration has been a very strong place for this president. And that too is tanking in the polls because people aren't happy with what they're seeing in Minneapolis. But I don't -- I don't know, as Margaret said, that this is a public relations play by the administration. There are some other things going on here.

BERMAN: Yes. And just finally, Margaret, I'll, you know, I have to let you both go, but is this turning the page on Minneapolis the way that one thought the White House was trying to do?

KUCINICH: Well, actually, I think you're raising a really good point because the timing -- you can't miss the timing. You've got a situation here where the White House is having to dial back, we think, their approach on ICE, and you're looking at the way that you avert a government shutdown that will play out in the coming hours is with a two week extension to figure out whether Democrats and Republicans who don't like the ICE policies can convince the White House to memorialize some of these changes that Homan talked about yesterday.

So, you know, these things are all happening at the same time. They send messages to different parts of the American electorate. The Don Lemon messaging may actually be popular with some parts of Trump's base who are not comfortable with the fact that ICE may need to reset its actions.

[09:30:00]

BERMAN: All right, Jackie Kucinich, Margaret Talev, thank you both so much for being with us this morning with so much going on.